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Dranzer V2

Jan. 22, 2011  2:49 AM
 
I'm not fond of these replying to every single response type of posts, but I'll do it anyways.

Quote:The WD is doing 0 damage, it's more of a Destabilizer than a Knock-out-er, so SG Flat even works well/better as a replacement part. The only thing it'll pop out is 10B Bistool. And I know what WD Attack is like.
Well, if you really know what WD Attack is like, then you should know that Wide Defense is the second best WD used for WD attacking only after Ten Wide. Sure it's round, but it has some flat angles on it that slightly protrude out which really helps on the offense. It's half the reason why attack combos with Triple Wing are so darn good.

Destabilizer? It's a Wide WD, so it has terrible balance. The combo you posted only has balance from the HMC.

And SG Flat? It's not a better replacement part generally. It only lasts longer on your combo because you're using a HMC on a BB with a grip tip.

Quote:This is untrue. I know it's on Beywiki but a lot of personal experience tells me otherwise.
If you want to talk about personal experience, you're talking to a person who's been playing with plastic Beyblades since OtC? That was what... 9 years ago? Not to mention that I own every single plastic Beyblade part ever made. The upper article was also written by Brad, and I'm quite sure he's knowledgeable on the subject since a toy company has decided to hire him for it. What you're thinking of is more of a force attack than upper.

Quote:Upper Attack can be Upper Attack with a goal other than knocking out the opponent.
Well I'm not seeing how it wouldn't be an upper attack type if it doesn't try to lift the opponent's Bey or destabilize the balance in the process leading into an attempt at a KO if it the upper fails at the end.

Quote:It sucks at LAD, the knobs ruin it. If you want LAD go for Defense Ring.
But I can brush up the wording.
That doesn't mean you can neglect it completely from having some Life After Death. It wouldn't be considered for a zombie if it didn't help with Life After Death. You forget you have to rely on the WD as well for it.

Quote:I'm going for the denotation of aggressive over the bey community connotation.
I'm still disproving it, but that doesn't mean you have to remove it. When I think of aggressive, I think of fresh Takara rubber grips or the shaft Full Auto Clutch.

I'll leave the diction to Kei to decide.
Jan. 22, 2011  3:50 AM
 
(Jan. 22, 2011  2:49 AM)G Wrote: I'm not fond of these replying to every single response type of posts, but I'll do it anyways.
lol me neither

Quote:Well, if you really know what WD Attack is like, then you should know that Wide Defense is the second best WD used for WD attacking only after Ten Wide. Sure it's round, but it has some flat angles on it that slightly protrude out which really helps on the offense. It's half the reason why attack combos with Triple Wing are so darn good.
Wide Defense > 10 Wide imo, but that's irrelevant.
The WD doesn't touch it, it just makes combos like 10B Bistool floor scrape to death.

Quote:Destabilizer? It's a Wide WD, so it has terrible balance. The combo you posted only has balance from the HMC.
yeah yeah rotational inertia
it doesnt kill the stability at all, because gyroscopic inertia is intense too.

Quote:And SG Flat? It's not a better replacement part generally. It only lasts longer on your combo because you're using a HMC on a BB with a grip tip.
But Knockouts arent the objective, outspins are, so SG Flat is obviously an effective substitute.

Quote:If you want to talk about personal experience, you're talking to a person who's been playing with plastic Beyblades since OtC? That was what... 9 years ago? Not to mention that I own every single plastic Beyblade part ever made. The upper article was also written by Brad, and I'm quite sure he's knowledgeable on the subject since a toy company has decided to hire him for it. What you're thinking of is more of a force attack than upper.

have you ever tried upper dragoon in left spin (as opposed to right spin) vs a right spin compact? it does a lot better

and on that subject Upper Dragoon/10 Heavy/Neo-Right HMC/Storm Grip Base is pretty mediocre imo.

Quote:Well I'm not seeing how it wouldn't be an upper attack type if it doesn't try to lift the opponent's Bey or destabilize the balance in the process leading into an attempt at a KO if it the upper fails at the end.
it doesnt knock out effectively, but it destabilzes.

Quote:That doesn't mean you can neglect it completely from having some Life After Death. It wouldn't be considered for a zombie if it didn't help with Life After Death. You forget you have to rely on the WD as well for it.
Who said I didn't know you needed a specific Weight Disk (Wide Survivor or less optimumly Wide Defense)? I'm not completely carping stupid bro.

Quote:I'm still disproving it, but that doesn't mean you have to remove it. When I think of aggressive, I think of fresh Takara rubber grips or the shaft Full Auto Clutch.
I already changed that. It's still aggressive though, it just isn't vigorous or something.

Quote:I'll leave the diction to Kei to decide.
Or any of the countless users that edit the wiki.
Jan. 22, 2011  7:41 AM
 
I made some modifications/additions to the Cross Dranzer section to clarify that it is an outclassed AR.
Jan. 22, 2011  8:29 AM
 
Upper attack has to be used in the same direction. If you are getting any positive results from them being in the opposite direction that's fine, but it isn't upper attack. And, the point of upper attack is to knock the opponent out of the stadium. Otherwise doing damage to the opposing bey would just be left to the smash attack types. Also, Survivor Ring works way better for LAD than Defense Ring

Dranzer V2's attack ring isn't really effective for upper attack. If the Master Dragoon Storm Grip combo is mediocre, then why list the Storm Grip combo you posted in the article as effective? It most definitely doesn't work any better.
Jan. 22, 2011  4:35 PM
 
(Jan. 22, 2011  8:29 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: Upper attack has to be used in the same direction.
Tell me why, please.

Quote:If you are getting any positive results from them being in the opposite direction that's fine, but it isn't upper attack. And, the point of upper attack is to knock the opponent out of the stadium.

I'd contend that's just Smash Attack with an upward motion component. The goal of Upper Attack is to life the opponent in the air to knock them off Balance and to lower their Defense by getting rid of any friction with the stadium floor. Getting a KO is a good bonus.

Quote:Also, Survivor Ring works way better for LAD than Defense Ring
well yeah, im just saying that Cross Survival is pretty meh at LAD.

Quote:Dranzer V2's attack ring isn't really effective for upper attack. If the Master Dragoon Storm Grip combo is mediocre, then why list the Storm Grip combo you posted in the article as effective? It most definitely doesn't work any better.
Wide Defense is there, not 10 Heavy.
I think that Upper Dragoon/Wide Defense/Neo-Left HMC/Storm Grip Base is great.
(Though I'd prefer a Left SG with SG Free Shaft Casings, Full Auto Clutch, and Defense Grip Base 2)
Jan. 23, 2011  5:55 PM
 
The WD will touch the Beyblade because the AR doesn't cover up everything. Otherwise it wouldn't be able to Upper without recoil.

No, SG Flat is not a better substitute. Nobody ever uses SG Flat seriously. It's either grip, metal, or gtfo. You don't half carp it with a slower combo. The point is to KO the other blade as fast as you can. Up against another attacker it'll get wasted. If you want some stamina over a grip tip, you use SG Metal Flat 2.

Upper Dragoon tends to smash more in left. In right the ramps are longer which gives it a better chance to upper, which is why it's used more in right.

Quote:and on that subject Upper Dragoon/10 Heavy/Neo-Right HMC/Storm Grip Base is pretty mediocre imo.

Test it against different types of combos using a mint tip, a correct launch technique, and then come back.

Quote:Who said I didn't know you needed a specific Weight Disk (Wide Survivor or less optimumly Wide Defense)? I'm not completely carping stupid bro.
Your article.

Quote:Or any of the countless users that edit the wiki.
Then Kei wouldn't be doing his job to ensure that the wiki is protected.

From Cye's part, it HAS to be in the same direction otherwise it won't be as efficient. Think of it like this (we'll be neglecting rotation in this case): if a car is about to collide with a ramp moving towards it (for some hypothetical reason), it'll be launched off higher compared to if that ramp was moving towards the car from behind slightly. It would just bump it if it's even stabilized enough.

Rotating diverging vectors will cause a higher collision opposed to converging rotating vectors. It's why spin stealers/zombies work better in opposite spin of each other.

And I don't know what stadium you're using last combo in, but it's crazy to use Full Auto Clutch without a some BB like Customze Grip and a SP.

But this will be my last time replying since I'm wasting my time trying to straighten up some information. I mean, you have 3 knowledgeable vets telling you correct information from years gained experience through our community as well as from the community in Japan, and you're just defending your article that's written from your point of view. The wiki should be written in a general sense for the readers, not from a biased perspective from just one person's experience.
Jan. 24, 2011  3:57 AM
 
(Jan. 23, 2011  5:55 PM)G Wrote: The WD will touch the Beyblade because the AR doesn't cover up everything. Otherwise it wouldn't be able to Upper without recoil.
its too low to touch

Quote:No, SG Flat is not a better substitute. Nobody ever uses SG Flat seriously. It's either grip, metal, or gtfo. You don't half carp it with a slower combo. The point is to KO the other blade as fast as you can.
I already told you the objective is to outspin, not to KO, so SG Flats Stamina > Strom Grip Bases.
Quote:Up against another attacker it'll get wasted.
. . . who cares? I already said it's to beat Survival and Balance.
Quote:If you want some stamina over a grip tip, you use SG Metal Flat 2.
SG Metal Flat 2 is too tall.
Quote:Upper Dragoon tends to smash more in left. In right the ramps are longer which gives it a better chance to upper, which is why it's used more in right.
but in Left the pitch is steeper to knock it more off Balance. Ramp Length isn't nearly as important, just look at Upper Tiger to see why.

Quote:
Quote:and on that subject Upper Dragoon/10 Heavy/Neo-Right HMC/Storm Grip Base is pretty mediocre imo.

Test it against different types of combos using a mint tip, a correct launch technique, and then come back.
I happen to have a Storm Grip Base thats almost completely mine (spun less than 50 times), and I can launch fine. I have used that combo. I'd also ppreciate if you'd stop patronizing me/treating me like an idiot, I do know things about Beyblade.

Quote:
Quote:Who said I didn't know you needed a specific Weight Disk (Wide Survivor or less optimumly Wide Defense)? I'm not completely carping stupid bro.
Your article.
. . . where? I wrote Wide Survivor : \

Quote:From Cye's part, it HAS to be in the same direction otherwise it won't be as efficient.
its not that imperative and its also untrue.
Quote:(we'll be neglecting rotation in this case):
but thats stupid?
Quote:if a car is about to collide with a ramp moving towards it (for some hypothetical reason), it'll be launched off higher compared to if that ramp was moving towards the car from behind slightly. It would just bump it if it's even stabilized enough.[quote]
Not if the ramp is a hellaton steeper and moving faster than the car. (Assuming friction is almost non existant)

[quote]Rotating diverging vectors will cause a higher collision opposed to converging rotating vectors. It's why spin stealers/zombies work better in opposite spin of each other.
Spin stealers is an irrelevant point.
Take a Gyroscope and try knocking it off its axis of rotation for a brief moment (this is right spin vs. right spin)
Then try it and hold it off its axis of rotation. It takes a lot more energy. (This is left spin vs. right spin)
and this is assuming a symmetrical AR like Cross Dranzer or Triangle Wing, with Upper Dragoon you'd have to knock it even further off its axis of rotation in the left spin scenario.

Quote:And I don't know what stadium you're using last combo in, but it's crazy to use Full Auto Clutch without a some BB like Customze Grip and a SP.
its really not. try that combo.
Full Auto Clutch is somewhat mediocre with Customize Grip Base imo, the bottom of the BB floor scrapes, and tbh no SPs are really 'great' at Attack aside from Upper Attack in Left Spin (I haven't tried Twin Guard or Survival Ring though). Fin Tectors are good but with the width of most Attack Rings and their low height I don't see too much use for them.

Quote:But this will be my last time replying since I'm wasting my time trying to straighten up some information. I mean, you have 3 knowledgeable vets telling you correct information from years gained experience through our community as well as from the community in Japan, and you're just defending your article that's written from your point of view. The wiki should be written in a general sense for the readers, not from a biased perspective from just one person's experience.
No, please do respond. If you can give me some solid evidence that any of what you posted regarding Upper Dragoon is true I'll change my view point and would be much obliged.
And really I only have 2 vets telling me off (You and Cye, although Cye isnt exactly telling me off). Just give me some concrete proof, please.
Jan. 24, 2011  4:21 AM
 
You are lifting beyblades off the stadium floor with Master Dragoon's AR in left spin?
Jan. 24, 2011  5:20 AM
 
Yes, very successfully.
I mean it's a ramp, why wouldn't it?
Jan. 24, 2011  5:35 AM
 
I think he means, if one is spinning right and Dragoon is spinning left, won't the opposing beyblade hit the other side of the ramp? (Aka the one not lifing it up) Not sure on this though, don't have much knowledge on plastics.
Jan. 24, 2011  5:38 AM
 
It depends on rotational velocity.
Jan. 24, 2011  5:42 AM
 
I got this line from the Upper Attack Article of Beywiki (Too lazy to quote so Im just copy pasting in ")

" Finally, for Upper Attack to function correctly, both Beyblades should be spinning in the same direction."
Jan. 24, 2011  5:51 AM
 
You're asking for like test results? There were tons of test results back when we were actually playing with plastics that proved this. They aren't exactly readily available at this point. Also, I don't think G's example was stupid. I always used a skater and a ramp to help describe upper attack. Also, the ramps on the other side of Master Dragoon's AR are hardly efficient for upper attack. I'd ask for a video, but I don't really think it's necessary.
Jan. 24, 2011  6:04 AM
 
I already have one :V
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilrfsjLj688
It's the 'pointless/awful combo' I mentioned earlier.

And I didn't call his example stupid, but neglecting rotation is sort of dumb.
Jan. 24, 2011  6:10 AM
 
It's only for the purposes of understanding the concept. You already have what, a video? If so, pm me a link or something. I'd like to see.
Jan. 24, 2011  6:19 AM
 
I posted it.
Jan. 24, 2011  6:28 AM
 
Sorry, I didn't see it. I'm using my phone. I just watched the video. Your combo seems to be using smash attack. It didn't really lift the other bey. It just knocked it out due to hard contact.
Jan. 24, 2011  6:36 AM
 
It definitely knocks it off Balance, it makes Bistool floor scrape quite frequently.
Jan. 24, 2011  6:44 AM
 
That's true, but not with upper attack. It looks like smash attack, in which case, there are better choices of AR. And even if you'd say that it is upper attack, there are better choices for AR also.

Edit: Would you like to continue this via pm, or aim, or something? It seems like we're not
talking about Dranzer V2 anymore
Jan. 24, 2011  6:49 AM
 
lol really.
Do you have Windows Live Messenger?

And I've tested other AR's Upper Dragoon is by far the best. It compensates for the tall height, and it's round enough to steal spin from opposite spin beys.
Jan. 24, 2011  6:59 AM
 
Yes, Upper Dragoon is the best plastic AR for upper attack, in the right spin direction. Your combo was in left spin. Dranzer GT's attack ring works better than Upper Dragoon in left
Jan. 24, 2011  3:44 PM
 
Well that's what everyone says, but I'm not so sure. I think Upper Dragooon preforms better in Left Spin then Right Spin so I must think that it's better than Triangle Wing in left spin.
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