I keep saying I'm going to do more tests for this, since it's part of a bigger project I'm doing with defense types, but I keep running out of time, so I figured I might as well post the tests I had.
Concept
I "found" this combo when testing out Hasbro's Imperfect Phoenix P4 Layer for Defense, according to bladekid it was one of the best defensive Layers upon release, so I had gotten it and Monster and was going to compare them with things like mG, H4, bK, etc. Maybe even defensive Gambit. It was really inspired by the pP.Ω.Vl'/Mb combo that Shindog likes to use, with the specific height and diameter of Mb-SP and the specific shape of Ωuter and iP4 it's able to pull off some unkoable shenanigans against specifically nL/L3.
As for Imperfect Phoenix specifically: none of Hasbro's Phoenix parts have metal, so the weight advantage of using pP isn't there. When bladekid first recommended this Layer he said that the imperfect armor is better because it is easier to remove - the perfect armor gets caught in the attachment mechanism, meaning that if the Layer takes too hard of a hit it could just drag the whole thing along with it and burst. I now have 2 Perfect and 1 Imperfect Phoenices for Hasbro, and that claim checks out for me as well. I also found that the perfect armor was kind of a bad shape and would get destabilized more easily. He also claimed that the imperfect core was tighter - this might be due to variation or Driver choice, but I would say it's debatably true for me? Both of my perfect cores feel a little bit looser overall, but they do have one "tight" point at the very end of the slope, whereas my imperfect core is uniformly a little bit tighter overall. Additionally, the height of Mb-SP means that the combo remains relatively unbothered by the armor if it does fall off.
Testing
Vs Attack
Benchmark:
Triumph Dragon Wheel-SP Absorb-S vs Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
TD.Wh.Ab-S: 6 wins (all OS)
nL.T.X': 14 wins (13 KO, 1 OS)
TD.Wh.Ab-S win rate: 30%
Imperfect Phoenix P4 0Cross Atomic-S vs. Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
iP4.0C.At-S: 8 wins (1 KO, 1 OS)
nL.T.X': 12 wins (11 KO, 1 OS)
2 ties redone
iP4.0C.At-S win rate: 40%
Imperfect Phoenix P4 0Expand Unite vs. Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
iP4.0E.U: 9 wins (5 KO, 4 OS)
nL.T.X': 11 wins (9 KO, 2 OS)
iP4.0E.U win rate: 45%
It's possible that these combos perform better against right spin attackers that might knock off the armor more consistently than nL can, but I didn't find them to be very impressive at all. iP Unite especially, was surprisingly bad.
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Revolver-SPM vs. Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
iP4.Ω.R-SPM: 8 wins (all OS)
nL.T.X': 12 wins (10 KO, 2 OS)
2 ties redone
iP4.Ω.R-SPM win rate: 40%
After trying the more traditional setups, I went for a more Flame 230 approach, first with R-SPM for the same spin utility. Unfortunately, it didn't work better than At-S defensively. Idk if there is some same spin matchup R-SPM wins that At-S does not, or if +R or +Kc would be a better choice if one wanted same spin utility.
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 15 wins (all OS)
nL.T.X': 5 wins (all KO)
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 75%
I understand skill issues are a thing, and that testing vs tournament environment is also a thing, but I was definitely trying my hardest to KO this thing with nL and not even getting very far. Even if nL was able to land a solid hit, most of the time, it would just graze against the smooth surface of Outer.
This is an identical winrate to what I got against mG.00.Kp' in this benchmark way back when, I put that same combo together for a few quick rounds to compare out of curiosity and while I didn't count exactly nL for sure got 2 KOs in pretty quick succession, so I think iP might actually be a bit better in this matchup. I then tried iP against L3 Hunter-S, thinking that the taller RF would make it easier to hit. I still need to get a launcher that can launch L3 more consistently, but out of the 5 good rounds I got before giving up L3.Hn-S achieved 3 KOs, a 60% winrate. I didn't get a chance to test but I would imagine it is similarly more vulnerable to bL.Gn since that is also quite tall.
Vs Stamina
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Flame Sagittario Wheel-SP Wave
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 0 wins
FS.Wh.Wv: 5 wins (all OS)
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 0%
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Deep Chaos Wheel-SP Xtend+
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 0 wins
dC.Wh.Xt+: 5 wins (all OS)
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 0%
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Triumph Dragon Wheel-SP Absorb-S
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 0 wins
TD.Wh.Ab-S: 5 wins (all OS)
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 0%
The TT Mobius is known for sometimes destabilizing and "sitting" on combos to OS them in same spin. I was unable to reproduce that effect, especially against FS, which was able to knock off the armor to OS it more quickly. I changed the Disks to 7E and 10C respectively and I think I got 1 questionable OS against 1 of them... it's not very good in same spin.
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Fafnir F3 10Cross Absorb-S
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 4 wins (all OS)
F3.10C.Ab-S: 6 wins (all OS)
3 ties redone
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 40%
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Drain Fafnir 7Expand Wave
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 7 wins (all OS)
dF.7E.Wv: 3 wins (all OS)
2 ties redone
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 70%
This was a bit surprising and definitely dependent on how good your Mobius is. It seems to be inconsistently good, I think the height disparity might have played a part in the different performance vs Ab-S and Wv?
Overall
At least from my testing, Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP appears to be one of the most consistent answers to Nightmare Longinus/Luinor L3 combos using standard height Drivers or shorter. I still have yet to test it against same spin attackers, and explore more of its LAD matchups (Et/Xt+ especially) but as of now it's only notable for being very good at winning one specific, albeit relatively important matchup.
Concept
I "found" this combo when testing out Hasbro's Imperfect Phoenix P4 Layer for Defense, according to bladekid it was one of the best defensive Layers upon release, so I had gotten it and Monster and was going to compare them with things like mG, H4, bK, etc. Maybe even defensive Gambit. It was really inspired by the pP.Ω.Vl'/Mb combo that Shindog likes to use, with the specific height and diameter of Mb-SP and the specific shape of Ωuter and iP4 it's able to pull off some unkoable shenanigans against specifically nL/L3.
As for Imperfect Phoenix specifically: none of Hasbro's Phoenix parts have metal, so the weight advantage of using pP isn't there. When bladekid first recommended this Layer he said that the imperfect armor is better because it is easier to remove - the perfect armor gets caught in the attachment mechanism, meaning that if the Layer takes too hard of a hit it could just drag the whole thing along with it and burst. I now have 2 Perfect and 1 Imperfect Phoenices for Hasbro, and that claim checks out for me as well. I also found that the perfect armor was kind of a bad shape and would get destabilized more easily. He also claimed that the imperfect core was tighter - this might be due to variation or Driver choice, but I would say it's debatably true for me? Both of my perfect cores feel a little bit looser overall, but they do have one "tight" point at the very end of the slope, whereas my imperfect core is uniformly a little bit tighter overall. Additionally, the height of Mb-SP means that the combo remains relatively unbothered by the armor if it does fall off.
Testing
Vs Attack
Benchmark:
Triumph Dragon Wheel-SP Absorb-S vs Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
TD.Wh.Ab-S: 6 wins (all OS)
nL.T.X': 14 wins (13 KO, 1 OS)
TD.Wh.Ab-S win rate: 30%
Imperfect Phoenix P4 0Cross Atomic-S vs. Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
iP4.0C.At-S: 8 wins (1 KO, 1 OS)
nL.T.X': 12 wins (11 KO, 1 OS)
2 ties redone
iP4.0C.At-S win rate: 40%
Imperfect Phoenix P4 0Expand Unite vs. Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
iP4.0E.U: 9 wins (5 KO, 4 OS)
nL.T.X': 11 wins (9 KO, 2 OS)
iP4.0E.U win rate: 45%
It's possible that these combos perform better against right spin attackers that might knock off the armor more consistently than nL can, but I didn't find them to be very impressive at all. iP Unite especially, was surprisingly bad.
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Revolver-SPM vs. Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
iP4.Ω.R-SPM: 8 wins (all OS)
nL.T.X': 12 wins (10 KO, 2 OS)
2 ties redone
iP4.Ω.R-SPM win rate: 40%
After trying the more traditional setups, I went for a more Flame 230 approach, first with R-SPM for the same spin utility. Unfortunately, it didn't work better than At-S defensively. Idk if there is some same spin matchup R-SPM wins that At-S does not, or if +R or +Kc would be a better choice if one wanted same spin utility.
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 15 wins (all OS)
nL.T.X': 5 wins (all KO)
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 75%
I understand skill issues are a thing, and that testing vs tournament environment is also a thing, but I was definitely trying my hardest to KO this thing with nL and not even getting very far. Even if nL was able to land a solid hit, most of the time, it would just graze against the smooth surface of Outer.
This is an identical winrate to what I got against mG.00.Kp' in this benchmark way back when, I put that same combo together for a few quick rounds to compare out of curiosity and while I didn't count exactly nL for sure got 2 KOs in pretty quick succession, so I think iP might actually be a bit better in this matchup. I then tried iP against L3 Hunter-S, thinking that the taller RF would make it easier to hit. I still need to get a launcher that can launch L3 more consistently, but out of the 5 good rounds I got before giving up L3.Hn-S achieved 3 KOs, a 60% winrate. I didn't get a chance to test but I would imagine it is similarly more vulnerable to bL.Gn since that is also quite tall.
Vs Stamina
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Flame Sagittario Wheel-SP Wave
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 0 wins
FS.Wh.Wv: 5 wins (all OS)
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 0%
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Deep Chaos Wheel-SP Xtend+
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 0 wins
dC.Wh.Xt+: 5 wins (all OS)
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 0%
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Triumph Dragon Wheel-SP Absorb-S
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 0 wins
TD.Wh.Ab-S: 5 wins (all OS)
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 0%
The TT Mobius is known for sometimes destabilizing and "sitting" on combos to OS them in same spin. I was unable to reproduce that effect, especially against FS, which was able to knock off the armor to OS it more quickly. I changed the Disks to 7E and 10C respectively and I think I got 1 questionable OS against 1 of them... it's not very good in same spin.
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Fafnir F3 10Cross Absorb-S
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 4 wins (all OS)
F3.10C.Ab-S: 6 wins (all OS)
3 ties redone
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 40%
Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Drain Fafnir 7Expand Wave
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 7 wins (all OS)
dF.7E.Wv: 3 wins (all OS)
2 ties redone
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 70%
This was a bit surprising and definitely dependent on how good your Mobius is. It seems to be inconsistently good, I think the height disparity might have played a part in the different performance vs Ab-S and Wv?
Overall
At least from my testing, Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP appears to be one of the most consistent answers to Nightmare Longinus/Luinor L3 combos using standard height Drivers or shorter. I still have yet to test it against same spin attackers, and explore more of its LAD matchups (Et/Xt+ especially) but as of now it's only notable for being very good at winning one specific, albeit relatively important matchup.
![[Image: izt9hKq.png]](https://i.imgur.com/izt9hKq.png)
