Ok here's the point.

Each time someone posts an attack combo, it is tested against top tier defense combo.
if you can KO the solid defence combo you'll be able, most likely to ko a stamina type.

but now, let's say i have a combo that beats defense everytime and has 100 victories over 100 matches.

Sadly, my combo gets literally destroyed by other attack types.
Get it? i go to a tourney and the first guy who uses an attack customization beats me.
Am i really using a top tier beyblade? Is that correct?

what i think is that in order to determine what a good combo is, you should consider what it does while facing anything.
if you just consider "ok, that beyblade is really good it beats every defence combo" and then get destroyed by someone using an attack combo, and think your combo was a top tier and you have no faults at all, you're wrong.

A top tier is not something that does really good in a specific matchup.

A top tier is, in my opinion, a customization that has the best matchups among used customizations in the current metagame.

look at this top tier combo:
mf pegasis 145 RF.

it is really good against defense, but man, if you encounter a skilled enough rf user, you'll mostly lose that match (note that i play rf vs rf continuously, to beat pegasis just shoot weak if you have a wheel with a better stamina than pegasis or shoot a NOT TOO STRONG banking if you have a good recoil even in rf vs rf)

So yeah, discuss.

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"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

hmmm well I think in attack vs attack battles the fastest beyblade has a more chance winning than the others. eg:if you and your opponent both have attack beys but you have a more mint RF bottom and a good launch than your opponent you have a higher chance of winning.(in my opinion) But I have seen, in battles where two attack beys are used but one has a higher track and the other has a lower track, eg: MF pegasis 145RF vs Storm pegasis 100RF storm pegasis can win almost every battle. But MF Pegasis 145RF is way better when battling defense beys. But beys like MF L.Ldrago 100RF from my opinion got higher win rates no matter what type its opponent is. I'll post some results later.
Conclusion I think high tracked attack beys should be restested against beys with lower tracks before making them top tire or anything. (this is my view, I could be wrong)

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No it's not the fastest.

Generally top tiers can beat other top tier Attack types hence why they become top tier.
But in the instance of say, Pegasis, it can KO defence types but not other Attack types. It still is top tier because it can do that, it's just ranked below the other Attack types because its KO rates aren't as high against defence or other Attack types.
There are a rank of top tier Attack types, ranging from the best, to ones which can still achieve great KO rates against Defence types.
They still remain top tier until they cannot KO top tier Defence types anymore, no matter how it fairs against other Attack types.

Plus, Attack vs Attack can sometimes be completely based on luck so it is quite inaccurate at times and in a competitive situation it comes down to who has the better launch and more luck.

it's not the speed, trust me i have played bout a yearof a RF VS RF metagame.

what matters is: grip of RF, so the way you shoot,
beyblade movement, if you shoot strong you'll be ina more external pattern, with higher risk to go out when hit
recoil, if you take a pegasis you'll note that you can't smash a way a well shot rf beyblade, which is not the same for LEO.
and stamina, if no one kos other beyblade, and your wheel has more stamina, that's pretty much it.

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"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

It seems as though one bey CANNOT be good in all situations. After all, attack burns really hot really fast and then dies, stamina burns long and slow, but gets knocked around, and defense is like a rock, but also suffers from stamina problems. So, factoring in the rock-paper-scissors like triangle of death, It would seem that every bey has a weakness. Thus, it would seem prudent to examine balance types, yet through the balancing of aspects, the bey becomes deficient in all categories.

So, it would seem that its some sort of freaky paradox, preventing the perfect bey from existing.

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One bey cannot be good in all situations. A top tier combo is when it does well in a specific situation because otherwise it will jus. Be a balance. How often do you go attack against attack? If you think of I that way none of the combos would be top tier because I it is good at everything, it cannot. Be great or outstanding at anything.

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How often do you go attack against attack?

In Italy they do it a lot, they are very aggressive in Beyblade.


However, that would indeed just make Balance combinations in our top-tier list, and I am not sure that is really possible right now with the parts we have.

in italy, our best customization is MF Gravity Perseus 90 RF.

wins against other RF beyblades by outspin if you just focus on avoiding the ko,
it has a good % against defense(not considering RS and RSF users because they lose by outspin, considering WD and WB too, cause from other tests perseus can't outspin wb, thing that happened from my tests btw. vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAxxD1jePAw)
assuming i can't outspin wb, i can still ko 50-60% of the times.
against stamina well, perseus has decent recoil, and that's not so hard to ko a stamina combo with rf

so yeah, good% against attack, decent vs defense, good vs stamina.

the same goes for MF LEO H145 RF, except for the fact that LEO goal is to ko instead of outspinning
(still, leo combo is a bit outclassed in our metagame now)

just asking, do EVERYONE play defense there? you know, if you go to a tourney i believe you will face different types of beyblades, not only defense one, am i right?

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"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

Sadly, my combo gets literally destroyed by other attack types.
Get it? i go to a tourney and the first guy who uses an attack customization beats me.
Am i really using a top tier beyblade? Is that correct?

You're using a top-tier Attack customisation; it does its job against Stamina types, and does well against its counter type, Defense. It's important to specify. Something which is successful against all types would generally be categorised as Balance.

I think that a combo should be looked at in terms of how effectively it beats what it is supposed to beat in comparison to other combos of the same type. I think the only reason attack types are gauged on how they handle defense types is because of the lack of efficient parts the MFB metagame has right now. I think later on when the game has more balance, this way of looking at the metagame will change

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I think that a combo should be looked at in terms of how effectively it beats what it is supposed to beat in comparison to other combos of the same type. I think the only reason attack types are gauged on how they handle defense types is because of the lack of efficient parts the MFB metagame has right now. I think later on when the game has more balance, this way of looking at the metagame will change

I agree. If the number of competitive parts increase, then I am sure that achieving a "balance" combo is possible, however, at this point in time, balance combos are non existent or even if they CAN exist, it is not "top tier" as it will be beaten by top tier blades in any category.

Also, lets say one attack beyblade (bey A) gets destroyed by another (bey B). However, Bey A has a better win rate against defense combos. Bey B does not. Does this make Bey B better than Bey A? It all comes down to perspective and one's ability to adapt to certain situations. I think that a "top tier" should come from something that the beyblade surpasses all other beys in doing one specific thing.

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I agree. If the number of competitive parts increase, then I am sure that achieving a "balance" combo is possible, however, at this point in time, balance combos are non existent or even if they CAN exist, it is not "top tier" as it will be beaten by top tier blades in any category.

Also, lets say one attack beyblade (bey A) gets destroyed by another (bey B). However, Bey A has a better win rate against defense combos. Bey B does not. Does this make Bey B better than Bey A? It all comes down to perspective and one's ability to adapt to certain situations. I think that a "top tier" should come from something that the beyblade surpasses all other beys in doing one specific thing.

So, in order to properly test attack combos, we should test the combo in question vs a defense type, and then compare the results to the results of other top-tier attack types vs that same defense combo? 'Cause that's cool (and how all good testing is done).

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I've been sort of telling people to test Attack vs. Attack forever.

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So, in order to properly test attack combos, we should test the combo in question vs a defense type, and then compare the results to the results of other top-tier attack types vs that same defense combo? 'Cause that's cool (and how all good testing is done).

Yah the way I see it, there should be a "control" defense combo to use against in all testing.

I've been sort of telling people to test Attack vs. Attack forever.

Lol McFrown that would be kinda pointless wouldnt it? I mean just 2 blades goin in circles and it all depends on which one has more stamina OR just gets lucky... Plus there will be TONS of double K.O.'s

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In my opinion it would be better to test against two different Top Tiers of each type, to make sure that it is good. There would be no point in using a Bey that does very well against one type, but gets ravaged by anything not of that specific type.

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Does Earth come in Earth Aquila 145WD ? Hm, this is a difficult question.

This might be a dumb question but, even if it doesn't have good smash, can dark be used in a smash attack combo?

My WD is too worn to be used legally, so I'll just beat up the rest of my Earth Aquila and send it to Hasbro so I can get a new one for free.

Really? I have to deal with this carp on the "new" zodiac here too? Ugh...I came here hoping that I wouldn't find it here too >.>

Oh no! Heaven forbid you have to read about something that 99% of the population is at least somewhat interested in!

Woe is you!

it has the widest track and the widest metal wheel.and its not really in a high price.i say hell kerbex is more of a balance than stamina.

How to write very obvious things ...

Don't say Storm sucks, it is still one of the best....

A part needs to come out that produces a defense combo that defeats all top tier attack combos. Then, attack types should be tested against stamina types.

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Rubber + Bearing Bottom.
Anyways, MF is probably ending the whatever-ish effectiveness of RS/RSF.

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A part needs to come out that produces a defense combo that defeats all top tier attack combos. Then, attack types should be tested against stamina types.

Well, attack types already have an advantage over stamina types so I personally think that a stamina type part should come out that can withstand attacks as well as providing enough spin time to outspin a defense.

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Rubber + Bearing Bottom.
Anyways, MF is probably ending the whatever-ish effectiveness of RS/RSF.

Do you mean that MF is creating too much weight centered in the middle which causes RS and RSF to have more friction, therefore losing stamina quicker? Then Why not use MF-L? Just a thought.

And LOL if a part like that came out it would be instantly top tier rofl...

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Metal Flat- The new bottom.

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A part needs to come out that produces a defense combo that defeats all top tier attack combos. Then, attack types should be tested against stamina types.

Well, attack types already have an advantage over stamina types so I personally think that a stamina type part should come out that can withstand attacks as well as providing enough spin time to outspin a defense.

Having a stamina combo that beats attack types and defense types makes the game broken and not fun. Essentially, the game works best when attack types beat stamina types, stamina types beat defense types, and defense types beat attack types. With the release of a better defense part, this cycle would actually work out.

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Having a stamina combo that beats attack types and defense types makes the game broken and not fun. Essentially, the game works best when attack types beat stamina types, stamina types beat defense types, and defense types beat attack types. With the release of a better defense part, this cycle would actually work out.

That is true but even if the game becomes completely balanced I don't think attack types should be tested again stamina since attack would pretty much always win telling us little to nothing. Attack still has to go against defense if you want to see which one has the best win rate against something that won't lose to pretty much every attack combo.

Edit: Even if a part does come out for defense that "always" beats attack types testing against lesser defense would still tell you more. Not to mention even if parts do come out for defense that are great they won't have a 100% win rate.

I think I might have found one useful "balance type" according to this topic called "medusa's beheader Gravity perseus t125rf" and there are test that show he effectivly beats defense, abously stamina, and beats attacks aswell mabye you guys should vist that topic. I just need to get a new rf, and i could do some test myself.

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It would still be interesting to see which is best to use within each type. People do test stamina vs stamina types... Why not see which is best within their own respective types after being proven top tier against their type mismatch?

I have to agree with Yamislayer, most of the games, and competition here for me always use attack types. (Except for the official local competitions here, where stamina is king, perhaps due to the youth of the competitors...)

Within the attack type group, there are serious mismatches, with our testing, and the amount of battles we had this year, left spin based attack customs tend to have the upper hand in an attack type versus attack type battle, it is also fascinating to attempt to figure out how to beat an opponent by altering your launch, and attack patterns. This area of Beyblading here is still mostly undocumented, because attack versus attack testing should be done with a partner using simultaneous banking or slight sliding shoots. (I say slight because strong sliding shoots from both players tend to do mid-air collisions...) It is difficult since beyblade testing seems to be mostly a solitary affair.

Even though there might be inconsistencies of skill between the partners, and too many variables, such as where the bey lands, the type of shoot, or if it hits in mid-air (which happens a LOT in actual competition where both competitors launch using sliding shots). But even with ALL of that, actual test results are better than having no test results at all. Perhaps as an addendum or an aside with serious type mismatch testing?

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Though all of this is true, it would probably just be best to test one bey vs top-tier customs of all types, with results of top-tier beys of the same type vs the other test competitors to compare. Unfortunately, this takes oodles of time and parts to do properly, as well as a BB-10 and they are kinda expensive.

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as well as a BB-10 and they are kinda expensive.

They got a lot cheaper than they were before... 25 dollars with shipping now.

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