World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.

aside for 2b and Solomon(which i bought sad life)the rest is meh for me. oh I for got the metal driver the colours looks good I'll give it that

Sad life? I ate my words and bought a Solomon, too and the OG Solomon is gorgeous. You didn't make a bad purchase.

About the lettuce analogy in your arguments, here's what I have to say:
lettuce

Flyer with information:

Metal Fusion:

Metal Drivers have Metal caps with the golden springs we see in Dash drivers.

(Feb. 15, 2021  6:14 AM)JoMario67 Wrote: [ -> ]Flyer with information:

Metal Fusion:

Metal Drivers have Metal caps with the golden springs we see in Dash drivers.

Nice, that 2B looks pretty cool

(Feb. 15, 2021  6:14 AM)JoMario67 Wrote: [ -> ]

Spoiler (Click to View)

Flyer with information:

Metal Fusion:

Metal Drivers have Metal caps with the golden springs we see in Dash drivers.

You forgot the chip.

Do we know for a fact that the metal drivers will increase teeth wear? Everyone is assuming it'll tear up teeth but do we have any evidence so far? Does anyone know the exact type of plastic (e.g. polyethylene) and type of metal used in beyblades? If so do we know coefficient of friction between that plastic on plastic vs that metal on plastic? I tried to look up the materials but couldn't find it. If someone has that info and/or could link it that'd be much appreciated.

I'm hopeful that teeth wear is a non-factor as if it actually is a problem that says to me that the chassis system will not survive into season 6 which would be a huge waste imo.

I cannot see how teeth wear will be a non-factor. As Zankye's video suggests, let's hope they have a plan for Season 6 so every Beyblade doesn't need dentures.

(Feb. 15, 2021  3:55 PM)KinkoUsagi Wrote: [ -> ]I cannot see how teeth wear will be a non-factor. As Zankye's video suggests, let's hope they have a plan for Season 6 so every Beyblade doesn't need dentures.

Why do you expect teeth wear to be significant?  I have used some of my drivers in hundreds of batteles with 0 visible wear on the driver tabs.  If friction between the new metal caps and the chassis plastic is not significantly more than the friction between regular driver caps and chassis plastic then there is no reason to believe wear will increase significantly.  I don't know if there are appreciable differences in the friction with the new metal cap and I've seen no evidence to suggest there is.

No matter how much the bey sucks
I still like the purple in the chip for some reason

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(Feb. 15, 2021  6:14 AM)JoMario67 Wrote: [ -> ]Flyer with information:

Metal Fusion:

Metal Drivers have Metal caps with the golden springs we see in Dash drivers.

does that mean that all meta drivers can be considered '?
And if not does that mean that a metal ' driver will have springs better than golden springs?

(Feb. 15, 2021  9:45 PM)valtaoi_007 Wrote: [ -> ]No matter how much the bey sucks
I still like the purple in the chip for some reason

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(Feb. 15, 2021  6:14 AM)JoMario67 Wrote: [ -> ]Flyer with information:

Metal Fusion:

Metal Drivers have Metal caps with the golden springs we see in Dash drivers.

does that mean that all meta drivers can be considered '?
And if not does that mean that a metal ' driver will have springs better than golden springs?

All of the Metal Drivers are ' (so far at least), although it's not in the name. The term "metal (driver name)" basically means the driver has a Metal Lock and a Dash spring, so the dash part is implied. I don't think a Metal' driver could exist, or would even be necessary but by the naming conventions that would mean it would have a better spring than dash drivers. Metal Drivers can be considered dash drivers.

Solomon and 2B are very good parts and Death is a meh base but Metal Fusion is terrible, making. the prongs metal will just mess up the teeth and probably be a problem and the Idea of this was so terrible and Fusion being a bad driver but still this will be a good bey due to everything besides Metal Fusion

Yeah, instead of giving us Metal lock drivers in this booster and in RB24, I would've preferred them to give us unreleased dash, high, or metal tip drivers since the caps on the metal lock drivers will most likely damage teeth..., besides, it hasn't been too long since they introduced High drivers, and now they're giving us another new type of drivers?

(Feb. 15, 2021  9:24 PM)GrinAndBarrett Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 15, 2021  3:55 PM)KinkoUsagi Wrote: [ -> ]I cannot see how teeth wear will be a non-factor. As Zankye's video suggests, let's hope they have a plan for Season 6 so every Beyblade doesn't need dentures.

Why do you expect teeth wear to be significant?  I have used some of my drivers in hundreds of batteles with 0 visible wear on the driver tabs.  If friction between the new metal caps and the chassis plastic is not significantly more than the friction between regular driver caps and chassis plastic then there is no reason to believe wear will increase significantly.  I don't know if there are appreciable differences in the friction with the new metal cap and I've seen no evidence to suggest there is.

Friction between them isn't the only problem.

The other thing is that the metal drivers are supposed be tighter than even dash ones, which would certainly need more force when it comes sliding them. Which is not at all a good thing for metal on plastic grinding.

(Feb. 16, 2021  2:11 AM)Shido-kun Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 15, 2021  9:24 PM)GrinAndBarrett Wrote: [ -> ]Why do you expect teeth wear to be significant?  I have used some of my drivers in hundreds of batteles with 0 visible wear on the driver tabs.  If friction between the new metal caps and the chassis plastic is not significantly more than the friction between regular driver caps and chassis plastic then there is no reason to believe wear will increase significantly.  I don't know if there are appreciable differences in the friction with the new metal cap and I've seen no evidence to suggest there is.

Friction between them isn't the only problem.

The other thing is that the metal drivers are supposed be tighter than even dash ones, which would certainly need more force when it comes sliding them. Which is not at all a good thing for metal on plastic grinding.

My Beys teeth are havINA bad time with those drivers.

(Feb. 15, 2021  8:20 AM)GrinAndBarrett Wrote: [ -> ]Do we know for a fact that the metal drivers will increase teeth wear?  Everyone is assuming it'll tear up teeth but do we have any evidence so far?  Does anyone know the exact type of plastic (e.g. polyethylene) and type of metal used in beyblades?  If so do we know coefficient of friction between that plastic on plastic vs that metal on plastic?  I tried to look up the materials but couldn't find it.  If someone has that info and/or could link it that'd be much appreciated.

I'm hopeful that teeth wear is a non-factor as if it actually is a problem that says to me that the chassis system will not survive into season 6 which would be a huge waste imo.

Teeth Wear has little to do with friction, The increased wear from metal teeth would be from that the metal is a much harder, stiffer and more durable material than the plastic which will ether snap or bend more often against metal, plus this is backed up by a Dash Spring which is also known to increase teeth wear through providing resistance.

(Feb. 15, 2021  8:20 AM)GrinAndBarrett Wrote: [ -> ]Do we know for a fact that the metal drivers will increase teeth wear? Everyone is assuming it'll tear up teeth but do we have any evidence so far? Does anyone know the exact type of plastic (e.g. polyethylene) and type of metal used in beyblades? If so do we know coefficient of friction between that plastic on plastic vs that metal on plastic? I tried to look up the materials but couldn't find it. If someone has that info and/or could link it that'd be much appreciated.

I'm hopeful that teeth wear is a non-factor as if it actually is a problem that says to me that the chassis system will not survive into season 6 which would be a huge waste imo.

The plastic used is typically PC or PMMA in Beyblades now.
The metal is a zinc alloy.

(Feb. 16, 2021  2:11 AM)Shido-kun Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 15, 2021  9:24 PM)GrinAndBarrett Wrote: [ -> ]Why do you expect teeth wear to be significant?  I have used some of my drivers in hundreds of batteles with 0 visible wear on the driver tabs.  If friction between the new metal caps and the chassis plastic is not significantly more than the friction between regular driver caps and chassis plastic then there is no reason to believe wear will increase significantly.  I don't know if there are appreciable differences in the friction with the new metal cap and I've seen no evidence to suggest there is.

Friction between them isn't the only problem.

The other thing is that the metal drivers are supposed be tighter than even dash ones, which would certainly need more force when it comes sliding them. Which is not at all a good thing for metal on plastic grinding.

Where are you seeing that these drivers are any tighter than dash drivers?

(Feb. 16, 2021  4:55 AM)GrinAndBarrett Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 16, 2021  2:11 AM)Shido-kun Wrote: [ -> ]Friction between them isn't the only problem.

The other thing is that the metal drivers are supposed be tighter than even dash ones, which would certainly need more force when it comes sliding them. Which is not at all a good thing for metal on plastic grinding.

Where are you seeing that these drivers are any tighter than dash drivers?

When TT first released the news they said the metal Lock reinforced the bey or something like that, and they mentioned it was tighter than a dash.

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Also Lmao turns out the leaked picture was wrong and put Accel instead of fusion XD

(Feb. 16, 2021  4:16 AM)RacingCheetahz Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 15, 2021  8:20 AM)GrinAndBarrett Wrote: [ -> ]Do we know for a fact that the metal drivers will increase teeth wear?  Everyone is assuming it'll tear up teeth but do we have any evidence so far?  Does anyone know the exact type of plastic (e.g. polyethylene) and type of metal used in beyblades?  If so do we know coefficient of friction between that plastic on plastic vs that metal on plastic?  I tried to look up the materials but couldn't find it.  If someone has that info and/or could link it that'd be much appreciated.

I'm hopeful that teeth wear is a non-factor as if it actually is a problem that says to me that the chassis system will not survive into season 6 which would be a huge waste imo.

Teeth Wear has little to do with friction, The increased wear from metal teeth would be from that the metal is a much harder, stiffer and more durable material than the plastic which will ether snap or bend more often against metal, plus this is backed up by a Dash Spring which is also known to increase teeth wear through providing resistance.

What reason do we have to believe that the plastic will snap or bend against the metal?  Teeth and tab wear is currently a non-issue because the force required to deform either piece is greater than the force required to click (rotate towards bursting).  If the friction between metal and plastic is the same as plastic on plastic there would be no more force acting on the teeth than with a plastic driver.  What additional force here is acting such that the force required to click is now greater than the force required to deform the teeth?

(Feb. 16, 2021  5:07 AM)GrinAndBarrett Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 16, 2021  4:16 AM)RacingCheetahz Wrote: [ -> ]Teeth Wear has little to do with friction, The increased wear from metal teeth would be from that the metal is a much harder, stiffer and more durable material than the plastic which will ether snap or bend more often against metal, plus this is backed up by a Dash Spring which is also known to increase teeth wear through providing resistance.

What reason do we have to believe that the plastic will snap or bend against the metal?  Teeth and tab wear is currently a non-issue because the force required to deform either piece is greater than the force required to click (rotate towards bursting).  If the friction between metal and plastic is the same as plastic on plastic there would be no more force acting on the teeth than with a plastic driver.  What additional force here is acting such that the force required to click is now greater than the force required to deform the teeth?

Teeth wear is actually an issue. Teeth wear is prevalent in layers like Cho-z Valkyrie/Achilles/Spriggan.
Metal tabs are stiffer than the Plastic teeth. When you are clicking the part in, if you do it too quickly, the harder metal will cause the plastic to chip.
The main wear is when assembling the bey, not during battle like you thought.

(Feb. 16, 2021  5:28 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 16, 2021  5:07 AM)GrinAndBarrett Wrote: [ -> ]What reason do we have to believe that the plastic will snap or bend against the metal?  Teeth and tab wear is currently a non-issue because the force required to deform either piece is greater than the force required to click (rotate towards bursting).  If the friction between metal and plastic is the same as plastic on plastic there would be no more force acting on the teeth than with a plastic driver.  What additional force here is acting such that the force required to click is now greater than the force required to deform the teeth?

Teeth wear is actually an issue. Teeth wear is prevalent in layers like Cho-z Valkyrie/Achilles/Spriggan.
Metal tabs are stiffer than the Plastic teeth. When you are clicking the part in, if you do it too quickly, the harder metal will cause the plastic to chip.
The main wear is when assembling the bey, not during battle like you thought.

It is the same force acting regardless of whether you're putting it together or it is being burst.  Ok, sure teeth wear might be an issue in some cases.  But I am arguing that (assuming friction is the same between metal on plastic vs plastic on plastic) there is no additional force at play due to the metal cap.

(Feb. 16, 2021  5:40 AM)GrinAndBarrett Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 16, 2021  5:28 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: [ -> ]Teeth wear is actually an issue. Teeth wear is prevalent in layers like Cho-z Valkyrie/Achilles/Spriggan.
Metal tabs are stiffer than the Plastic teeth. When you are clicking the part in, if you do it too quickly, the harder metal will cause the plastic to chip.
The main wear is when assembling the bey, not during battle like you thought.

It is the same force acting regardless of whether you're putting it together or it is being burst.  Ok, sure teeth wear might be an issue in some cases.  But I am arguing that (assuming friction is the same between metal on plastic vs plastic on plastic) there is no additional force at play due to the metal cap.

It's because the metal is more resistance to change of shape than plastic. So when the force is acting on the plastic, when the tabs are plastic, plastic and plastic, due to the burst mechanism, pushes the Burst lock/spring down. But when it comes to metal,the metal is pushing the plastic due to different hardness. Because of this, the metal can chip the plastic due to the higher (unhealthy) resistance.

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We aren't talking about friction here

(Feb. 16, 2021  6:13 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb. 16, 2021  5:40 AM)GrinAndBarrett Wrote: [ -> ]It is the same force acting regardless of whether you're putting it together or it is being burst.  Ok, sure teeth wear might be an issue in some cases.  But I am arguing that (assuming friction is the same between metal on plastic vs plastic on plastic) there is no additional force at play due to the metal cap.

It's because the metal is more resistance to change of shape than plastic. So when the force is acting on the plastic, when the tabs are plastic, plastic and plastic, due to the burst mechanism, pushes the Burst lock/spring down. But when it comes to metal,the metal is pushing the plastic due to different hardness. Because of this, the metal can chip the plastic due to the higher (unhealthy) resistance.

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We aren't talking about friction here

Yes, obviously metal is more durable than plastic.  But if driver tabs are currently not being deformed at all (which I have not noticed in hundreds of battles on some drivers) that implies that the forces generated were already less than that which is required to deform the tabs.  That means that all of the energy is already being transferred to the teeth.  Even though the metal cap is made of more durable material, it will not exert any more force on the teeth (and I say assuming friction is the same because increasing friction does increase abrasive wear).  If it were the case that the plastic driver caps were being deformed then there would be additional energy transferred to the teeth from the metal cap due to material hardness but that appears not to be the case.

Looks like this thread is filled with problems of not enough knowledge on abrasion and wear. 

This concept of wear is taught in college in material science and engineering.

First and foremost plastic on plastic contact causes more friction and thus more abrasion and thus more wear. Even metal on metal causes more amount of friction. 

The basic concept of wear depends on the surfaces in contact. Usually it is observed that if the materials in contact are the same it leads to more friction and thus more wear
( it sounds counter intuitive but is actually true! A simple experiment to check this is by putting a glass plate in contact with a glass cup; if you compare the friction and adhesive forces between moving steel on glass and glass on glass; we can observe more signs of wear when we conducted the experiment with glass on glass. Why you may ask? The answer is that since the two materials are same the adhesive forces between the two objects increases many times more than when two different materials are used)  

Back to the question of Metal Driver caps and Plastic teeth; In theory if everything was kept the same the metal and plastic contact will cause no change in wear( it can be expected to be less due less friction and strain.) Again when using science it is often advised not to follow you intuition as it is more often than not wrong. 

Provided the spring doesnt get stronger the force on teeth will remain same and thus no additional warping will occur, that is, it will be almost the same as inn the case of plastic teeth. (sometimes even lower)

However if the spring is stronger then there is an increase in chance of warping and deformation due to the fact that the Youngs Modulus of Plastic( Measure of the elasticity of the material)  is not really high.  I dont really know what Takara Tomy has advertised apart from the metal on the drivers; if they make the spring stronger only then will it cause problems. 

[font="Titillium Web", sans-serif]@[[ NØBØDY ]][/font][font="Titillium Web", sans-serif] As a caution; Friction is the major role in any form of wear. Ignoring friction will lead to wrong answers. [/font]

If I have made any mistake please feel free to correct me.


Some data to back my claims :
coefficient of friction:

plastic-metal

 Static :0.25...0.4
 Dynamic  :0.1...0.3

plastic-plastic

 Static : 0.3-0.4
 Dynamic : 0.2...0.4