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(Sep. 23, 2011  12:44 AM)Arupaeo Wrote: [ -> ]In my opinion, sharing parts (let alone whole beys!) in a tournament is collusion and should be made illegal.
Just because you lend/beys parts to someone, doesn't necessarily mean they have the knowledge to know when/how to use them. For me, I know most of the outcomes of matches because I can recite instances where I've witnessed those battles during judging. Most kids who borrow wouldn't know how to do that because of inexperience.

For the longest time, Cye wouldn't borrow parts because he didn't feel comfortable using parts he didn't have any prior experience using. It wasn't until many tournaments after Basalt's release that he would accept a loan of Basalt because at that point, he had seen what it can do.

What if a kid doesn't have enough money for all of the parts? Are you going to shaft him/her for having financial difficulty in the game? I don't. That's why I will openly lend most of my collection out to kids as long as I don't immediately need it. I don't want to feel as though I am only winning because I can afford parts. I want to know that it is my skill and experience that has carried me this far.

But yes, a friend looking at his friend's opponent's selection to tell him what he's using is ridiculous.
(Sep. 23, 2011  12:53 AM)Deikailo Wrote: [ -> ]Just because you lend/beys parts to someone, doesn't necessarily mean they have the knowledge to know when/how to use them.
Very true, because it's not like a random thing; you need to know how.

(Sep. 23, 2011  12:53 AM)Deikailo Wrote: [ -> ]What if a kid doesn't have enough money for all of the parts? Are you going to shaft him/her for having financial difficulty in the game? I don't.
This.

TAKARA-TOMY is expensive to import, especially when sometimes I've heard guardians say that it is not worth 20 Dollars for a "top".
What should and could be banned is the number of instance a combination is shared though. Still, someone could just have five of the same customization and go over such a rule, but this all goes into what I call discretionary power : if you see someone obviously doing something that seems questionable, report it. We would rather receive reports for unimportant things than nothing at all.
(Sep. 23, 2011  2:19 AM)Kai-V Wrote: [ -> ]What should and could be banned is the number of instance a combination is shared though. Still, someone could just have five of the same customization and go over such a rule, but this all goes into what I call discretionary power : if you see someone obviously doing something that seems questionable, report it. We would rather receive reports for unimportant things than nothing at all.
You know how teachers stopped kids from bringing treats to class? They demanded the kid had to share with everyone else to be fair. Now that would be a good rule... if you lend to one person, you must be willing to lend to his opponents as well.
(Sep. 19, 2011  8:26 PM)ControL_ Wrote: [ -> ]In the UK, this habit has become disgustingly boring, the previous tournament for example was literally me against every other blader in the tournament. They would all gang up and trade combos to counter me, with the blader who uses that counter having no clue what he was actually doing. It's like I can not 1v1 battle someone as I used to be able to without 5 or so of the top UK bladers getting involved to gang up on me.

(Sep. 20, 2011  10:17 PM)Kei Wrote: [ -> ]While it's not as prevalent for me as it seems to be for Control_, I can certainly feel his pain. It has happened on a few occasions, at least. It's not fun at all when this sort of stuff happens because you feel completely powerless. It becomes not a one versus one game, but a one versus three or whatever the case may be.

(Sep. 23, 2011  12:53 AM)Deikailo Wrote: [ -> ]What if a kid doesn't have enough money for all of the parts? Are you going to shaft him/her for having financial difficulty in the game? I don't. That's why I will openly lend most of my collection out to kids as long as I don't immediately need it. I don't want to feel as though I am only winning because I can afford parts. I want to know that it is my skill and experience that has carried me this far.

I'm not at all unsympathetic to the issue of disposable income disparity (I've written as much recently), and I'm not even opposed to a couple of friends pooling their money to get parts that they share (or borrowing between themselves in general). What I have a huge problem with is the active collusion of a group with the sole intent of beating a specific blader.

Our tournaments are not team matches, they are individual matches, and if "it takes a village" to beat ControL_ or Kei then I think that group has crossed a bridge too far in terms of sportsmanlike conduct (or the lack thereof). Unless you meet again in a final or a double elimination tournament bracket, a blader gets 1 shot to beat the other bladers they face on that day. 1 shot, not 3 or 4 or 5 - which is essentially what the colluding group gets when they share information and parts with the intent of beating someone in particular.

And BTW, the group as a whole does benefit from this. Even if they lose 4 times to finally win 1 time, collectively they only lose like 12-16 points (3-4 points per match) but they win 25-30 points from the one match they win (when facing Kei anyway) which then eventually works it's way around to all of them through the normal course of tournament play.

To me it feels like a bunch of jackals ganging up to kill a lion - and I just don't think it's right.
(Sep. 23, 2011  5:31 AM)Arupaeo Wrote: [ -> ]To me it feels like a bunch of jackals ganging up to kill a lion - and I just don't think it's right.

You are correct. Nobody said that it's OK. Like I said, it sucks.

I posted that we just have to be smarter in regards of the collusion case. Example, I never free-play during tournaments for this exact reason. I don't want to expose my combos for others to try to beat before the actual matches.

I don't see how rulings against lending beys can be applied in reality during tournaments. Because, regardless, even if the committees do implement the rules that prohibits lending beys/parts, collusion will still happen.

People will just lend behind your back, whispers in the backgrounds, back-talks etc. It would even promote an unhealthy and unfriendly environments during tournaments.

The best solution would be to view the problem from case to case, and report it, when it's deemed necessary. (like ControL_'s 2 cases)
(Sep. 20, 2011  10:17 PM)Kei Wrote: [ -> ]While it's not as prevalent for me as it seems to be for Control_, I can certainly feel his pain. It has happened on a few occasions, at least. It's not fun at all when this sort of stuff happens because you feel completely powerless. It becomes not a one versus one game, but a one versus three or whatever the case may be.
I've actually done this against you at HPT3 and you can see the wonderful success I've had with warning people about what you'd use. I told Dan exactly what you've been using in your previous tournaments, but he still picked a low track Basalt combo?

You've also done it to me during HND! (and I'm pretty certain I did the same) using Xman as a proxy. In the end, I used a combo to counter what I thought you'd give to him, not what Xman would have selected on his own.

That's another thing; if your opponent has the stress mounted onto him/her from other players, you can easily use that to psych them out. The Problem used Variares BD145RF against my Basalt Aquario TH170CS in a battle and I just started telling him that he was a stamina blader, not an attack blader. What do you know, he kept self-KOing, even though I knew he could easily have KO'd me instead if he wasn't so nervous by what I said.

To me, if a blader is lending out blades to a novice, that puts to opponent at an advantage because the lender's buddy is going to be outside of her comfort zone.
(Sep. 23, 2011  7:34 AM)Deikailo Wrote: [ -> ]
(Sep. 20, 2011  10:17 PM)Kei Wrote: [ -> ]While it's not as prevalent for me as it seems to be for Control_, I can certainly feel his pain. It has happened on a few occasions, at least. It's not fun at all when this sort of stuff happens because you feel completely powerless. It becomes not a one versus one game, but a one versus three or whatever the case may be.
I've actually done this against you at HPT3 and you can see the wonderful success I've had with warning people about what you'd use. I told Dan exactly what you've been using in your previous tournaments, but he still picked a low track Basalt combo?

You've also done it to me during HND! (and I'm pretty certain I did the same) using Xman as a proxy. In the end, I used a combo to counter what I thought you'd give to him, not what Xman would have selected on his own.
[/quote]
I do not see anything wrong with this , as long as you find out what they are using by watching there battles I think it should be fine as that is what you do in a tournament study your opponent the only time I think it is unfair if somebody keeps track of everything you use and tells their friend a counter when they are up against you as this has happened to me a few times and it is frustrating.
(Sep. 23, 2011  12:58 AM)BeybladeStation Wrote: [ -> ]
(Sep. 23, 2011  12:53 AM)Deikailo Wrote: [ -> ]What if a kid doesn't have enough money for all of the parts? Are you going to shaft him/her for having financial difficulty in the game? I don't.
This.

TAKARA-TOMY is expensive to import, especially when sometimes I've heard guardians say that it is not worth 20 Dollars for a "top".

That..isnt the effort of someone to collect money to buy parts is not considered?not all are rich..like myself and Dr. Peace,sometime we dont have lunch just to get a bey..XD
But thats not a big deal..

(Sep. 23, 2011  5:31 AM)Arupaeo Wrote: [ -> ]Our tournaments are not team matches, they are individual matches, and if "it takes a village" to beat ControL_ or Kei then I think that group has crossed a bridge too far in terms of sportsmanlike conduct (or the lack thereof). h the intent of beating someone in particular.

And BTW, the group as a whole does benefit from this. Even if they lose 4 times to finally win 1 time, collectively they only lose like 12-16 points (3-4 points per match) but they win 25-30 points from the one match they win (when facing Kei anyway) which then eventually works it's way around to all of them through the normal course of tournament play.

To me it feels like a bunch of jackals ganging up to kill a lion - and I just don't think it's right.
Yo..thats the biggest disgust and boredom here..thats gonna ruin the day..the points you gathered by your own effort,taken easily by a gang?

First of all, I dont agree on Beyblade whole lending..(lending parts,i dont really mind..i can understand)..at least..they change 50% of the combos..

Secondly, there should be no group discussion on combos..totally is not allowed for me..Combos should be decided personally..by their own intelligent
It's definitely an issue. Although from what I've seen, ControL_ is a generally really well-liked member of the London community but I have seen instances of blind support for whoever he is facing. Okay, it's not anywhere as severe as the other cases he's mentioned (which I haven't seen before, but it's possible that this is something which has evolved from the aforementioned chanting), but this is easily a situation which can quickly descend into something really nasty. Unfortunately, this is the negative aspect of competition and pollutes the atmosphere of an event. It's difficult to underline how uncomfortable a lack of sportsmanship can make an opponent feel, but needless to say, it's something we heavily discourage. In that regard, I totally agree with Arupaeo's sentiments.

However, and I hope it's not insensitive to suggest this, the unfortunate reality of hobbies like this is that money is a huge factor in the game. At this point in time anyone who participates in our tournaments, and ergo is most probably a member here, should be aware of the multitude of Beyblades offered by our Affiliates at great prices - it doesn't take a huge amount of money to be competitive; I do think that the single biggest hindrance is a lack of Paypal or other online payment means.
(Sep. 20, 2011  7:15 PM)ControL_ Wrote: [ -> ]Even when it goes to stalling and say someone puts a bey on behind their back, i've seen people try putting stuff like dark wolf and deliberately bad combos on the other person's launcher when they're not looking.
To touch up on this, the rules say that a player must attach a bey to the launcher, not just any person, per se . That would not count as attaching on the player's part. If an opponent attaches a bey to your launcher, then that would be the opponent's selection.

So if you did not attach a Beyblade to your launcher, then it is not your selection; it is the selection of person who attached a Beyblade to your launcher. If I caught anyone trying to pull this at my events, they'd be disqualified immediately.
(Sep. 23, 2011  7:34 AM)Deikailo Wrote: [ -> ]You've also done it to me during HND! (and I'm pretty certain I did the same) using Xman as a proxy. In the end, I used a combo to counter what I thought you'd give to him, not what Xman would have selected on his own.

Even though that tournament was not as 'serious' in the sense that none of us were inhibited by the fear of losing BeyPoints, and I think we were all focused on simply having as much fun as possible (albeit, in a 'serious'/competitive way haha), I do look back on that and regret it because of the reasons I brought up in my previous post.
(Sep. 23, 2011  3:05 PM)Deikailo Wrote: [ -> ]
(Sep. 20, 2011  7:15 PM)ControL_ Wrote: [ -> ]Even when it goes to stalling and say someone puts a bey on behind their back, i've seen people try putting stuff like dark wolf and deliberately bad combos on the other person's launcher when they're not looking.
To touch up on this, the rules say that a player must attach a bey to the launcher, not just any person, per se . That would not count as attaching on the player's part. If an opponent attaches a bey to your launcher, then that would be the opponent's selection.

So if you did not attach a Beyblade to your launcher, then it is not your selection; it is the selection of person who attached a Beyblade to your launcher. If I caught anyone trying to pull this at my events, they'd be disqualified immediately.
Right, but someone was slipping dark wolves in their hands, so they thought it was their own bey.

@<3
What I see through everyone, is that their moods are quite "bipolar", not literally, but similarly when at tournaments. Their preferances on whoever wins is against me heavily at the moment, it's different since the last time I was at a tournament with you <3. Maybe because I'm at the top there is some hate against me winning, no matter how much they like me when i'm not beyblading. Even one of my very best beyblade friends I have known for 5 years, decides to go against me worse than ever, after I trained him for half a year, selling him countless competitive parts, and making him combos that got him up to the finals with no loses in the group stages.

He decides to go in the group to gain advice no matter how I pleaded, getting the win as I expected. The worse part is, he has incredibly good combos, he knows which ones are good. The combos I made him, he used earlier that day such as:
MF-H Scythe Kronos BD145EDS/MF, MF Gravity Perseus BD145MF, Basalt etc. He could have easily put up a fair fight and won.

Someone with 900 points can beat me just like the top can, using such a top combo, with the support of half the UK I lose 30 points (+another 5 lost or so for winning). I lost points to someone using a combo as good as me, yet I lose points at a much worse rate.

-
The chanting at high levels is a confidence lowerer, however with that and just absolutely no support mentally or combo-wise, I feel extremely helpless at winning. Forgive me if this is wrong, but I do not believe it was anything like this with Blitz, and I fear the community will turn on the next number one, as I am adamant I won't be able to keep this spot up no matter how mentally strong I become. Support is utterly necessary, with BladeStorm gone and everyone shouting me down, this isn't a good community.

There should be some sort of rule for silence during a beybattle to ensure full concentration (it might sound lame in a spinning top game, but it's necessary), penalise those who get their friend to seek the other person's combo, and bad sportsmanship calls by experienced judges?
(Sep. 23, 2011  3:17 PM)Kei Wrote: [ -> ]
(Sep. 23, 2011  7:34 AM)Deikailo Wrote: [ -> ]You've also done it to me during HND! (and I'm pretty certain I did the same) using Xman as a proxy. In the end, I used a combo to counter what I thought you'd give to him, not what Xman would have selected on his own.

Even though that tournament was not as 'serious' in the sense that none of us were inhibited by the fear of losing BeyPoints, and I think we were all focused on simply having as much fun as possible (albeit, in a 'serious'/competitive way haha), I do look back on that and regret it because of the reasons I brought up in my previous post.
Yo, my reputation as the best old school blader ever was on the line. That is more important than Beypoints.

(Sep. 23, 2011  7:55 PM)ControL_ Wrote: [ -> ]Right, but someone was slipping dark wolves in their hands, so they thought it was their own bey.
How the hell...? How do people not check their parts before attaching?

That person should just be asked to leave the tournament area based on conduct, which by the way, is a rule. There are several rules, IIRC, enforcing good sportsmanship.
(Sep. 23, 2011  8:02 PM)Deikailo Wrote: [ -> ]
(Sep. 23, 2011  7:55 PM)ControL_ Wrote: [ -> ]Right, but someone was slipping dark wolves in their hands, so they thought it was their own bey.
How the hell...? How do people not check their parts before attaching?

That person should just be asked to leave the tournament area based on conduct, which by the way, is a rule. There are several rules, IIRC, enforcing good sportsmanship.
Well when people attach beys on behind their back or go for it as they're usually stuffed in their pockets, it's hard to tell.
The whole attaching a different Bey on someone's Launcher sounds ridiculous in all honesty. I'm not going to point fingers but the judge should definitely have stepped in and done something about it.

(Sep. 23, 2011  7:55 PM)ControL_ Wrote: [ -> ]What I see through everyone, is that their moods are quite "bipolar", not literally, but similarly when at tournaments. Their preferances on whoever wins is against me heavily at the moment, it's different since the last time I was at a tournament with you <3. Maybe because I'm at the top there is some hate against me winning, no matter how much they like me when i'm not beyblading. Even one of my very best beyblade friends I have known for 5 years, decides to go against me worse than ever, after I trained him for half a year, selling him countless competitive parts, and making him combos that got him up to the finals with no loses in the group stages.

Yeah, of course. I won't make any assumptions about any events I've not been present at, but even when the situation wasn't as bad the chanting was still pretty unsavoury. I'm sorry to hear that.

(Sep. 23, 2011  7:55 PM)ControL_ Wrote: [ -> ]The chanting at high levels is a confidence lowerer, however with that and just absolutely no support mentally or combo-wise, I feel extremely helpless at winning. Forgive me if this is wrong, but I do not believe it was anything like this with Blitz, and I fear the community will turn on the next number one, as I am adamant I won't be able to keep this spot up no matter how mentally strong I become. Support is utterly necessary, with BladeStorm gone and everyone shouting me down, this isn't a good community.

There should be some sort of rule for silence during a beybattle to ensure full concentration (it might sound lame in a spinning top game, but it's necessary), penalise those who get their friend to seek the other person's combo, and bad sportsmanship calls by experienced judges?

Again, absolutely. Chanting can really make someone feel rotten. It's sad that you feel like this, and not only do I agree from what you've written, I can't blame you for feeling this way either.

I feel that a silence rule detracts from the excitement a match can bring however, but it would definitely be worth sitting everyone down and putting a foot down on the issue.
(Sep. 23, 2011  7:55 PM)ControL_ Wrote: [ -> ]The chanting at high levels is a confidence lowerer, however with that and just absolutely no support mentally or combo-wise, I feel extremely helpless at winning.
... this isn't a good community.

There should be some sort of rule for silence during a beybattle to ensure full concentration (it might sound lame in a spinning top game, but it's necessary), penalise those who get their friend to seek the other person's combo, and bad sportsmanship calls by experienced judges?

I feel for you brother, and this type of conduct goes against the spirit of the game I think. Kai-V has already expressed that reporting these types of events is something we should start doing, and I think if we do start reporting them and let Kai-V and the committee start considering the incidences of bad behavior, then we will be at the beginning of a road to resolution.

(Sep. 23, 2011  7:55 PM)ControL_ Wrote: [ -> ]Someone with 900 points can beat me just like the top can, using such a top combo, with the support of half the UK I lose 30 points (+another 5 lost or so for winning). I lost points to someone using a combo as good as me, yet I lose points at a much worse rate.

This is another area that interests me greatly. We use a modified ELO rating system with a (currently) fixed K-Value of 32. It's a complicated formula, but as you know, the bigger the difference in ranks the more points the higher-ranked blader loses from a loss (up to a max of 32 points) and the lower-ranked blader wins from a win. And, of course, the high-rank blader starts to win less and less points as well.

Now, once you get close to breathing the rarefied air of the first page of rankings (which I will join very shortly!) your immediate thinking is, "this K-value of 32 is much too high! How about changing to a K-value of like 4?" LOL Of course we all jumped up to the top by beating those who were above us in the ranks and stay there by not losing (too often) to those below us in rank. So it's hard to argue that the big point swings should go away because you're at the top...

That being said, there are many other competitions that use the ELO rating system (Yu-Gi-Oh, Chess, and Go for example) that have variable K-values depending on the type of tournament and format. It might be worthwhile for us to have a discussion surrounding the merits of using a variable K-value as part of the official rules. I would like to at any rate. For more information on the ELO rating system and its various permutations, GIYF, but you can start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
Seriously, the judges should write down who does this "chanting" or who has a really bad behaviour and report them, and if a 'victim' sees that the judge is doing nothing, then that judge needs to be reported to me.

I thought TAKARA-TOMY's "oath swearing" about friendship at the beginning of the biggest tournaments was exaggerated and childish, but apparently there are really people with dirty brains who would need such an oath, or at least comparable punishments.
I'm not able to see the rules like you and everyone else is. Could you put them up as a page instead of something that needs a reading program to access it?
Its in PDF format..so you need Adobe Reader to open it..
where can i enter or how do I know when there is going to be the tornament?
(Oct. 24, 2011  8:02 PM)EvilStriker9433 Wrote: [ -> ]where can i enter or how do I know when there is going to be the tornament?

You look right below this topic, and you post if there is one that is coming up in your area ...
OK, this is a re-clarification to all future and possible tournaments' hosts:

Re-launch clause can only be invoked if there's a technical issue / malfunction involved.
  1. Self KOs / Slip outs / Stadium misses / Bad launches / Weak pulls are NOT technical issues / malfunctions. A blader is responsible for his / her own launches. These cases must be counted as clear losses for the particular round. Relaunch is NOT allowed.
  2. Examples of technical issues / malfunctions are launchers' break during launches, or beys caught and stuck on the prongs, or beys just flop on the stadium without any spin. A blader can invoke a relaunch clause for a maximum of ONCE during a beybattle, and TWICE for the whole event day. The blader is only then allowed to change his launcher / grip appropriately for the beybattle.
  3. Judges can invoke a relaunch for the beybattle IF the judge sees that certain launches interfere with the outcome of the match. Examples would be: Beylauncher's string whip out the beys in battle during retraction, or one/both bladers' launcher/grip/hand 'bump/nudge' the opponent's/each others' beys during launches, or one/both bladers launcher/grip/hand 'bump/nudge' the stadium to move/shift considerably during launches.
Would the committees please kindly step in and reconfirm these points or correct it for any possible mistakes / misinterpretations.
If someone accidentally walks past a Blader who is in the process of shooting and that their knee or leg destabilises the launch, the judge can obviously have the match redone, but the judge has to invoke it right after the disturbance is observed.

In every valid case for a Reshoot Clause, the Clause must be invoked immediately after the problem has happened. Otherwise, it cannot be valid.



Really, I have no idea why we have to now make sure that everyone understands the Reshoot Clause ... I have seen from tournament videos that people have been totally abusing it and it is like the judges never read the Rulebooks at all.

Any future tournament that does not follow such a simple rule will not be processed unfortunately.
Nice summary Uwik. I'm not your desired audience, but I do agree with 1 & 2 below - and had an example of each from my past tournament.

For #1, a blader was trying to snipe someone with an attack bey and his bey missed and shot out of the stadium. He said, I want my reshoot. I said, no way man. You gambled on a quick win and lost, but there is no malfunction there to justify a reshoot.

For #2, it was sad really. The blader's bey got stuck in the prongs so tight that I had to use a paperclip to hold the prongs steady so we could pull it out. He got his reshoot for that one, but then decided not to change launchers (several people had oferred him a spare). One round after that (in the same battle) his bey got stuck again. I had to tell him that he couldnt use a second reshoot in the same battle and that he lost the point. He lost the battle because of his decision to risk using the same launcher.

#3 seems like a reasonable position to take from a discretionary stand point, I'm just not sure how I feel about the hand bumping as that happens all the time...

I too am interested in hearing the official position on these, and thank you for raising the points.
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