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(Apr. 04, 2021  5:37 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 04, 2021  5:31 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]No problem, I may have been crusading for this.

Deep gratitude then, my friend. From both myself and my Orthrus AR. Did I miss much else? Wombat caught me up a little, but you're pretty active it seems like. I imagine Dragon Saucer SAR (I had to double check that when I got back) would have made a few otherwise goofy ARs more useful?

Also wombat’s problem I think I figured out.  But I think he might have told you already 

[Image: DBt3mOE.jpg]
(Apr. 04, 2021  5:40 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 04, 2021  5:37 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]Deep gratitude then, my friend. From both myself and my Orthrus AR. Did I miss much else? Wombat caught me up a little, but you're pretty active it seems like. I imagine Dragon Saucer SAR (I had to double check that when I got back) would have made a few otherwise goofy ARs more useful?

Also wombat’s problem I think I figured out.  But I think he might have told you already 

[Image: DBt3mOE.jpg]
Sorry to be dense, but I can't tell what I'm looking at even with the arrow? On mine, that area is the same on my unpleasant boy and my stock wolborg 4s
(Apr. 04, 2021  5:53 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 04, 2021  5:40 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Also wombat’s problem I think I figured out.  But I think he might have told you already 

[Image: DBt3mOE.jpg]
Sorry to be dense, but I can't tell what I'm looking at even with the arrow? On mine, that area is the same on my unpleasant boy and my stock wolborg 4s
If there is a gap there between the clip and the base what happen in Wombats video occurs.  I replicated it.
Basically a clip that fits well solves the problem.
I guess the picture is actually showing no gap, which is what you want
(Apr. 04, 2021  5:55 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 04, 2021  5:53 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry to be dense, but I can't tell what I'm looking at even with the arrow? On mine, that area is the same on my unpleasant boy and my stock wolborg 4s
If there is a gap there between the clip and the base what happen in Wombats video occurs.  I replicated it.

Ohhh gotcha. Cool, glad it's sorted!

It's nice to see someone so invested in older systems on staff.

Was there ever any testing of Trident Vector on Uriel 2's tip done?
(Apr. 04, 2021  6:03 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 04, 2021  5:55 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]If there is a gap there between the clip and the base what happen in Wombats video occurs.  I replicated it.

Ohhh gotcha. Cool, glad it's sorted!

It's nice to see someone so invested in older systems on staff.

Was there ever any testing of Trident Vector on Uriel 2's tip done?
I am not sure but I don’t think so.  I am pretty new to plastic as my Beyblade journey is exactly backwards burst>MFB>HMS>plastics.  I could have missed it.

This thread and the list has been very helpful to me.
No worries. I'm half tempted to pick up a 3d printed one just as a rough guide on how the contact points play out. At least that way I could mark it as prospective, even if I couldn't add it to the list because of weight distribution differences and obviously not having tested the real part. If that were a little cheaper, I could at least see if I could justify grabbing the real thing at some point, but eh. I'll see.

Thanks very much for the help. I'm glad to have helped.

Quote:Also, when you posted the optimal set up, do you mean the optimization is coming form the EG performing ideally?  I have lots of issues with get the EG working “correctly”, not sure if I even know what correctly is tbh. In terms of EG activating when I think I want it to activate, 10 balance is what I am using.

Optimal in terms of the overall performance of the combo - it's like a compact except it's held out of reach by an older sibling who keeps pushing your head into the floor.

The EG is mostly a matter of whether you want to wind it or not for a particular matchup. I believe I have notes somewhere. I will try to find them. I find that activation timing is less important than the rest of the properties provided by the weight disk and ar
(Apr. 03, 2021  2:41 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]
(Jun. 13, 2016  8:13 AM)Wombat Wrote: [ -> ]While I completely agree with Ultra about taller being better for Circle Survivor setups for reasons he already explained, I still use the normal WB4 EG and Base because I find the prongs on the Rock Bison one to be a bad shape so the CEW often become stuck in a position that kills its Stamina and prohibits it from spinning freely. I just uploaded a video of it on youtube that shows off what I'm talking about, since it's kinda hard to explain with words.

From 0:01 to 0:07 is how the CEW should fit on the EG prongs.
From 0:08 to 0:18 is what ends up happening when I launch EG Circle Defenser with Wolborg 4'S CEW.
From 0:30 to 0:36 is the normal behavior of the combo, albeit slightly more aggressive than it should be.
At 0:53 Dranzer V2 delivers the hit that tilts the CEW into a bad position, and as you can see it makes a visible difference in the balance and Stamina. And at the very end of the video when I pick up the Circle Survivor combo you can see that the CEW is all messed up. I have only encountered this issue with the Rock Bison's EG, and not with the normal WB4 prongs.

I've never had an issue with Rock Bison's EG, and it's very noticeably better IMO. Even with hits hard enough to send the bit chip flying (but still not KO the damnable thing) the CEW stays comfortably in place.

Optimal setup btw, which I never posted, is:

AR: Roller Defense Ring
WD: 10 Heavy
SG: Right Engine Gear (Circle Defenser)
BB: Normal Base (Wolborg 4 Ver.)
CEW: Circle Survivor

Frankly I am only posting this now as plastics are largely dead. It's near impossible to KO, especially without the illegal or fragile Screw Zeus combos (hell, even with them it's right spin only and even when my sliding shot was at its best after thousands of rounds of AR testing, it was still dead 50/50 if not 60/40 in Circle Survivor a favour) and depending whether or not you wind the EG and where you launch it, it has little trouble beating every major archetype.

I absolutely despise this thing. It's not fun, it requires very little skill, and it's extremely reliable in my experience.

I didn't know how I was gonna reply to this until Shindog reminded me that we figured out why that was causing the problem. Both my WB4 and Rock Bison clips don't fit right, so my guess is that either the Rock Bison prongs or the CEW bowl itself is deformed or something.

On that topic though, does the like 1mm of height the Rock Bison gear gives you really make that big of a difference defensively? I just tried that exact combo, except with the stock WB4 gear against

AR: Manta Diver
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Right (some magnecore)
BB: Defense Grip Base (inverted)

And not counting the 1 non-contact self KO out of the 11 rounds I did, Manta got a 70% winrate. I tried a bunch of different launch techniques to try ant get Circle Survivor to win but there were times where it'd just get backhanded out. This was also in the Burst Standard stadium by the way, idk if it'd be different in Tornado Attack (definitely would favor Manta more in the BB-10) or if I just need to get a heavier Heavy though.
I found the difference noticeable enough in various situations, if I remember right. I'd otherwise have stuck to wb4's as it looks nicer. I don't know if I kept notes or messaged any of my usual collaborators as to why. I'll have a look tomorrow. But even a mil can make a difference in plastics.

The thing was hard enough to KO that even when I was at my best doing slide shots quite literally all day long, I was concerned enough about the combo to keep it under wraps - and I'm still a pretty good shot even after not using my beys for 5-6 years. I'm using tornado attack, no idea what the burst standard stadium is like (actually, I'm not 100% sure I know what it looks like at this point). If it lets that circle survivor combo, even with wolborg 4's EG, be KO'd that easily then it has my interest - as I've never seen one backhanded out of a stadium. I'll test with manta diver tomorrow (haven't used mine extensively yet, I was honestly not super impressed initially but I'll have a look as I didn't use it much). It would make for a much healthier metagame and bring me a lot of joy.
BB-10 is less consistent than TA, due to greater depth (good but unpredictable for attack) and shallower tornado ridge (bad for attack). So, I rarely use it for testing, but there's obviously validity to it.

I generally don't wind the EG vs attack, if that helps. 10 heavy is usually pretty similar in weight. Only major weight divergence In weight disks are the smaller sized sonokong Gold series weight disks and the sonokong g series 10 wide (which didn't come in all of them) which is, as the kids say, ”baller".
Hey guys.
I'm going to drop my experience here. So far I've used BB-10 and Tornado Attack, alone as well as with a second person present. Later on in the day I will try the Burst Standard Stadium. Don't know if there are different variations or anything, mine comes from B-08. Here is what I gathered:
Firstly, in solo testing, attack types were futile. I tried a variety of ARs ranging from Trygle AR, Driger G AR, Driger V2 and Seaborg 2. A couple of bases, from Defense Grip to Uriel 2 + BK, and even CGB, in case I could create something that could knock it around enough to make WB4 lose by outspin. This was both in BB-10 and Tornado Attack. No luck at all. It was hilariously bad. The attack types came close, but were really just missing that extra oomph. Regularly would WB4 be knocked beyond the tornado ridge but it would never leave the stadium. Truly annoying.

Here is where things get interesting, from what I've seen so far. If you've tested by yourself, you can tell that the AR of the attack type beys generally find themselves in an awkward spot relative to WB4 - typically just scraping the top of Circle Survivor and the Weight Disk. It is so awkward for them as they're almost constantly sour-spotting their hits. This interaction is uniform across the attackers because WB4 is planted in the middle of the stadium and the attackers are always shot second, flowering around the ridge looking for a good hit. This angulation feeds attackers right into where WB4 would want you to hit it. Putting up any attack type vs WB4 seems borderline cruel in this scenario. You just won't get KO's, and even if you get meaty hits in this non-sour spot area, it isn't normally enough, and still get outspun.

This is drastically different with two people. In fact, I have reservations to say that you can get realistic results in this matchup without 2 participants. With all that previous solo testing in mind, as well as not having Manta Diver AR myself, I figured the closest thing to a shot vs WB4 was an OHKO Seaborg 2 based bey. All or nothing, your first two hits net you a KO or you lose. In solo testing it lost, it was down bad, but perhaps there was hope for it during a real battle. I wanted it to be similar to what Wombat put up, too, and I imagine Manta Diver based attackers rely on the same principle of all or nothing, so I went with this:

AR - Seaborg 2
WD - Wide Defense
SG: Neo Left
BB: Defense Grip
Nothing crazy.

So! Now onto the good stuff. Two people launching at the same time means that both beyblades will be gravitating towards the center at the same time. Solo, WB4 gets priority to stick itself there in between launching your attacker. What used to be a near insta-lose the second you chose a WB4 combo was more around the ballpark of 50% for either combo. It was a toss up whether Seaborg 2 would meet WB4 before it made it to the center, meaning during the first 2 flower pattern revolutions where Seaborg 2 is at the height of its KO potential, or not. If it did, this usually meant a KO or lead to a KO since it wasn't a pure sour-spot hit. In one instance WB4 hit one of the walls on my Tornado Attack so hard it still went flying up and out of the stadium. A dope interaction, but this was once out of a good fifty-odd times we battled unfortunately. WB4 deserves more clowning like that. If it survived, as in WB4 did not get KO'd instantly and reached the center of the stadium in the initial few seconds after simultaneous launch, it was essentially impossible for Seaborg 2 to do much of anything, just like in solo testing. Back to the sour-spot jail. This was the same for both Tornado Attack and BB-10, though I think the over-the-wall KO is simply not possible on BB-10, ever. I will do duo testing later in the Burst Stadium, as well as use other combos too. It could be that this small window is enough for other non-OHKO attackers to take advantage of. I have my reservations, but it is possible.

Finally, on top of all this, it also depended where I positioned WB4, though this might seem stupid to have to mention, I want to include it in. I mean positioning in relation to stadium walls, where WB4 was launched. Purely anecdotal and haven't taken the time yet to officially test both configurations, but if I launched WB4 between two walls, as in I was launching right above an exit, it would be much tougher for Seaborg to get a KO even if it landed a meaty hit or two immediately. It wasn't impossible, just felt a bit harder to pull off. Conversely, if I launched WB4 above a wall, with two pockets on either side, it felt a bit easier to get removed from the stadium immediately. Of course there were cases I launched in between walls and still got KO'd, and cases where I launched between two exits but got saved by a wall or made it to the center of the stadium. Again, I'm going to have to do testing with both configurations extensively, it really just might be random or some kind of subconscious confirmation bias.

With all that said, hovering around 50% WR may not seem like much, but it is a hell of a lot better than 10%, or something like that, observed in solo testing. I'll do Burst Stadium later today I think, we'll see.

Edit: just because I forgot to mention it. I couldn't find the original Circle Defenser+Normal Base+Circle Survivor I used way back when Th!nk first introduced this to me, so the EG is stock Wolborg 4. Rest is uniform.
Lots of variables to play with, I'll have more to say later about all this and Dan's detailed post.

For what it's worth I'm gonna test manta diver properly later against a compact or something and compare to one of the big boys to assess it for the tier list as I was impressed this morning



Okay I'm clearly rusty as hell, or this compact got extremely lucky (it did, tonnes of wall saves).

Anyway, Square Edge is going on the list. It's nuts. It has some recoil issues but it also stays "live" (that is, still able to KO) much later into the duel than a lot of other things.

Tests

Stadium: Tornado Attack
Standard Conditions, Only 10 Rounds Tho Sorry

Opponent
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: 10 Heavy
BB: Metal Ball Base

It's a very consistent, well behaved opponent while still good enough to not fly out from every hit. I'm also very, very familiar with how it reacts to hits.

Test Setup:

WD: SonoKong 10 Wide (heavy)
SG: Right SG (Bearing Version 2)
Tip: SG Grip Change Base Tip (Attack Mode, Quite Worn)
SP: Cross Survivor
BB: Customize Bearing Base

AR: Dragon Breaker
SAR: Screw Zeus

Results:

ATK: 60% (all KO)
Compact: 40% (1KO, 3 OS)

The Rust Is Real, what a shameful result (used to be 90-100%). That said, back in the day this was the only way I could KO Circle Survivor 50% of the time at best.

AR: Square Edge

ATK: 70% (all KO)
Compact: 30% (1KO, 2OS)

Impressive. Some recoil issues by comparison. But it stays live really late into the match. It's damned good.

Overall given sample size and behaviour I'd say they're pretty similar, and that Square Edge is undoubtedly competitive, though its recoil is worrying. Not quite Whale Crusher levels but it's enough to be noticeable. Between that and what seems like some consensus on the matter prior to my return, I'm adding it to the list.
I'm back now, having done testing with all three stadiums side by side. I've observed a few things, and I'll just highlight the differences here between B-08 and the other two, BB-10 and Tornado Attack (TA). Right off the bat, WB4 does seem to KO easier in this stadium.

1. There is about a hair difference between the slopes of B-08 and BB-10/TA. If there is a difference between BB-10 and TA, it is even more negligible. I'm talking maybe a millimeter if that. I don't want to go through the effort of measuring them all stringently, so make what you will with that.

2. The tornado ridge on B-08 is noticeably steeper than TA or BB-10, as they have a bit of a curve to them compared to just a drop on B-08/ I think it is actually shorter than BB-10 or TA too, if again, only by a hair. But I haven't measured it truly accurately.

3. In TA and BB-10, following the tornado ridge is a shadow ridge, or I should say, a very soft line indicative of a change in incline. If you have a BB-10 it will be obvious if you put it to light. On the TA this is present and identical. This is not present at all on a B-08, meaning it is uniform top to bottom.

4. There is just more real-estate after the tornado ridge on both BB-10 and TA. This means that if you get hit past the ridge on a BB-10 or TA, in the direction of an exit, there is still a couple of cm of wiggle room to live, if you're WB4. Because of the shielded and pocketed design of the B-08, it really doesn't need this extra space, obviously. Unfortunately for WB4, this extra space can be, and often is, absolutely crucial.

5. The material is different, evident not only in the fact that it holds charge (this is not observable in the other stadiums I don't think?), but also in the fact that rubber bases get a huge buff here. Defense Grip Base left skid marks on the B-08, something not at all happening on the other stadiums. By default, this means attack types will just be stronger in this environment.

I cannot discern whether the easier time KO'ing is due to the tornado ridge not being as reliable or that Defense Grip Base's grip boost just makes things hit that much harder, giving it that aforementioned oomph that was missing in my earlier testing on BB-10 and TA. It could be both, or the apparent lack of reliability could merely be a symptom of the boosted grip.

My absolute final point on this burst stadium: stay away from it when you use plastics. The pockets are not designed for plastic-sized beys in mind, Seaborg 2 was saving itself from ring out constantly by hitting the pocket backboard. In once battle, this happened twice. As fun as it is to look at, it highlights the incompatibility. The pocket is almost exactly the size of a Wide Survivor. Anything bigger than that can save itself, and while we can all agree that it would still count as a ring out, we really shouldn't be using this stadium for plastic testing or play in general. Now if this isn't enough, again, my rubber was creating skid marks. The material of the stadium gives an incredible advantage to attackers in the speed and force department. In burst, that probably doesn't have a huge impact as their side and shape are designed specifically for this environment, but with the designs of plastic series beys, it's clear they're not on home turf.
(Apr. 05, 2021  3:13 AM)Dan Wrote: [ -> ]3. In TA and BB-10, following the tornado ridge is a shadow ridge, or I should say, a very soft line indicative of a change in incline. If you have a BB-10 it will be obvious if you put it to light. On the TA this is present and identical. This is not present at all on a B-08, meaning it is uniform top to bottom.

4. There is just more real-estate after the tornado ridge on both BB-10 and TA. This means that if you get hit past the ridge on a BB-10 or TA, in the direction of an exit, there is still a couple of cm of wiggle room to live, if you're WB4. Because of the shielded and pocketed design of the B-08, it really doesn't need this extra space, obviously. Unfortunately for WB4, this extra space can be, and often is, absolutely crucial.

This might also be part of it. When Circle Survivor is hit past the ridge, it generally stops in that extra space mentioned (weight being the likely culprit, it's sisyphean). That said I did note that it was somewhat harded

I would love to get a Burst stadium to test but it looks like shipping to Australia is going to be a very expensive nightmare, and I already have 2 BB10s and 3 TAs.


Also, Wolborg 4 EG is noticeably easier to KO for me compared to Rock Bison when using Square Edge? I might try to do some slow mo sometime, but I suspect Square Edge is hitting the WD on optimum hits instead of the BB? It's odd, I'm honestly surprised.



BTW manta diver AR really is great, anyone want to sell me a white defense grip base (fresh uriel 2 tip is still better but it wears like hell). Ocean Man, take me by the hand.
I just did a few rounds and would agree Rock Bison prongs and the more compact nature seems to make a difference.  Then again, I don’t touch plastics much and haven’t been inside a tornado attack for a while.

https://youtu.be/CczzlFKARIg

For me it needs multiples hits basically unless you burst it haha
(Apr. 05, 2021  4:27 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]I just did a few rounds and would agree Rock Bison prongs and the more compact nature seems to make a difference.  Then again, I don’t touch plastics much and haven’t been inside a tornado attack for a while.

https://youtu.be/CczzlFKARIg

For me it needs multiples hits basically unless you burst it haha

Thanks for the video. I retract my statement about the Burst Stadium probably not being proper for this series, 1:37 is all we needed to see. We burst now, boys.

If I remember correctly, a big part of the reason Th!nk tried to avoid the proliferation of WB4 is that basically this Zeus SAR combo was the only reliable enough thing to use against it, in testing. WB4 was a blight on existing attack combos with only one decent exception. I haven't tested it with two people, just way back when by myself, but it is patently better than a OHKO Seaborg 2 combo, and doesn't rely on coin-flipping the meet-at-the-center. 

With that said, if we're looking to determine a verifiable difference in performance, probably shouldn't be starting with something we already know can cream it. It's a bit late now for me, and my RB EG is MIA, but maybe Th!nk can do some testing for measurable difference between the two. Which probably means a hell of a lot of rounds, not just 20 or 30. We can just take anecdotal evidence for it, and I'm being a bit particular, but it would be very very interesting to see the the concrete difference that might become apparent between both EGs. Just for fun.
(Apr. 04, 2021  6:11 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 04, 2021  6:03 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]Ohhh gotcha. Cool, glad it's sorted!

It's nice to see someone so invested in older systems on staff.

Was there ever any testing of Trident Vector on Uriel 2's tip done?
I am not sure but I don’t think so.  I am pretty new to plastic as my Beyblade journey is exactly backwards burst>MFB>HMS>plastics.  I could have missed it.

This thread and the list has been very helpful to me.

(Apr. 05, 2021  5:01 AM)Dan Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 05, 2021  4:27 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]I just did a few rounds and would agree Rock Bison prongs and the more compact nature seems to make a difference.  Then again, I don’t touch plastics much and haven’t been inside a tornado attack for a while.

https://youtu.be/CczzlFKARIg

For me it needs multiples hits basically unless you burst it haha

Thanks for the video. I retract my statement about the Burst Stadium probably not being proper for this series, 1:37 is all we needed to see. We burst now, boys.

If I remember correctly, a big part of the reason Th!nk tried to avoid the proliferation of WB4 is that basically this Zeus SAR combo was the only reliable enough thing to use against it, in testing. WB4 was a blight on existing attack combos with only one decent exception. I haven't tested it with two people, just way back when by myself, but it is patently better than a OHKO Seaborg 2 combo, and doesn't rely on coin-flipping the meet-at-the-center. 

With that said, if we're looking to determine a verifiable difference in performance, probably shouldn't be starting with something we already know can cream it. It's a bit late now for me, and my RB EG is MIA, but maybe Th!nk can do some testing for measurable difference between the two. Which probably means a hell of a lot of rounds, not just 20 or 30. We can just take anecdotal evidence for it, and I'm being a bit particular, but it would be very very interesting to see the the concrete difference that might become apparent between both EGs. Just for fun.
I believe he said Zeus went 50/50 or 60/40 again it.  I am merely trying to see if that is about right.  These videos I make are not to be confused with testing.  I hardly do the WBO recognize type of testing at all anymore. I do not intend to make a statement with my videos or establish something like this is better than that.  They are just for fun for me.  No editing and straight through and very low production value.
Here’s one more.  My launching really isn’t very good...  A better player or me on some days can do better I feel.  If I can just hit the Beyblade, the powers is there. 

 Dark Wing Vs Circle Survivor Compact
https://youtu.be/u1cwwNe4WoM
(Apr. 05, 2021  6:09 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Here’s one more.  My launching really isn’t very good...  A better player or me on some days can do better I feel.  If I can just hit the Beyblade, the powers is there. 

 Dark Wing Vs Circle Survivor Compact
https://youtu.be/u1cwwNe4WoM

Eh, you were solid in the first video for a lot of those shots!

I'm just taken aback to have two people with staff badges talking about plastics (plus my boy Dan). Didn't think I'd come back to something more engaged and engaging than it was when I left.

Dark Wing is a great AR. The SAR could be less in the way sometimes, but I'm generally quite fond of it.
(Apr. 05, 2021  7:17 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 05, 2021  6:09 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Here’s one more.  My launching really isn’t very good...  A better player or me on some days can do better I feel.  If I can just hit the Beyblade, the powers is there. 

 Dark Wing Vs Circle Survivor Compact
https://youtu.be/u1cwwNe4WoM

Eh, you were solid in the first video for a lot of those shots!

I'm just taken aback to have two people with staff badges talking about plastics (plus my boy Dan). Didn't think I'd come back to something more engaged and engaging than it was when I left.

Dark Wing is a great AR. The SAR could be less in the way sometimes, but I'm generally quite fond of it.
Actually, one of main reason I like Zeus it is pretty easy to control and it’s range is more forgiving.  I use Seaborg tip bc some of them are just GFCUV soft if not softer, and thus also forgiving in ways I need it to be.  I had a hard time with Dark Wing.  It certainly wasn’t doing what I want it to do.

Tornado attack is also forgiving in the sense I probably would have self KOed in BB-10 a bit more.
(Apr. 05, 2021  7:27 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 05, 2021  7:17 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]Eh, you were solid in the first video for a lot of those shots!

I'm just taken aback to have two people with staff badges talking about plastics (plus my boy Dan). Didn't think I'd come back to something more engaged and engaging than it was when I left.

Dark Wing is a great AR. The SAR could be less in the way sometimes, but I'm generally quite fond of it.
Actually, one of main reason I like Zeus it is pretty easy to control and it’s range is more forgiving.  I use Seaborg tip bc some of them are just GFCUV soft if not softer, and thus also forgiving in ways I need it to be.  I had a hard time with Dark Wing.  It certainly wasn’t doing what I want it to do.

Tornado attack is also forgiving in the sense I probably would have self KOed in BB-10 a bit more.

Yeah that's true. In a lot of match-ups the weight of the AR setup helps (also had a look again yesterday and more closely matched my orientation from before - it does sit level quite nicely, my Dragon Breaker was damaged from time being used in other positions, but using my newer one it sits nicely). It does take a little more effort to get it going at the same speed as lighter ARs, but on the other side it's a lot more deliberate and manageable. Seaborg's tip does vary, correct, but Uriel 2's tip material is better than GFCUV. It's incredible at speed and at recoil control, but unfortunately it also wears down very quickly. The one I've been using, well, it's pretty gory how much has worn away. But using a brand new one today, there's nothing quite like it. Not worth the money over defense grip base though.

I'm not sure if I prefer DB/SZ or Square Edge for attack at the moment though. I barely tested square edge as I bought it after I left - it was one of my last acquisitions alongside Orthrus G and CEW Metal Ball, so much that I didn't have it as a part I owned in my notes database (which I'm slowly resuming writing).

TA is still the most consistent and balanced stadium Takara made (of course, I haven't tried the burst one). Fragile, mind. Cross Griffon loves to chew the walls.
(Apr. 05, 2021  8:09 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 05, 2021  7:27 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, one of main reason I like Zeus it is pretty easy to control and it’s range is more forgiving.  I use Seaborg tip bc some of them are just GFCUV soft if not softer, and thus also forgiving in ways I need it to be.  I had a hard time with Dark Wing.  It certainly wasn’t doing what I want it to do.

Tornado attack is also forgiving in the sense I probably would have self KOed in BB-10 a bit more.

Yeah that's true. In a lot of match-ups the weight of the AR setup helps (also had a look again yesterday and more closely matched my orientation from before - it does sit level quite nicely, my Dragon Breaker was damaged from time being used in other positions, but using my newer one it sits nicely). It does take a little more effort to get it going at the same speed as lighter ARs, but on the other side it's a lot more deliberate and manageable. Seaborg's tip does vary, correct, but Uriel 2's tip material is better than GFCUV. It's incredible at speed and at recoil control, but unfortunately it also wears down very quickly. The one I've been using, well, it's pretty gory how much has worn away. But using a brand new one today, there's nothing quite like it. Not worth the money over defense grip base though.

I'm not sure if I prefer DB/SZ or Square Edge for attack at the moment though. I barely tested square edge as I bought it after I left - it was one of my last acquisitions alongside Orthrus G and CEW Metal Ball, so much that I didn't have it as a part I owned in my notes database (which I'm slowly resuming writing).

TA is still the most consistent and balanced stadium Takara made (of course, I haven't tried the burst one). Fragile, mind. Cross Griffon loves to chew the walls.
Perhaps “better” is different for ppl.  I definitely prefer the softer Seaborg and GFCUV vs Uriel 2.  Uriel 2 tip is just way too hard for my liking.  Here is a comparison

Softer rubber

https://youtu.be/TRuTx2xgArs
(Apr. 05, 2021  8:24 AM)Shindog Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 05, 2021  8:09 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah that's true. In a lot of match-ups the weight of the AR setup helps (also had a look again yesterday and more closely matched my orientation from before - it does sit level quite nicely, my Dragon Breaker was damaged from time being used in other positions, but using my newer one it sits nicely). It does take a little more effort to get it going at the same speed as lighter ARs, but on the other side it's a lot more deliberate and manageable. Seaborg's tip does vary, correct, but Uriel 2's tip material is better than GFCUV. It's incredible at speed and at recoil control, but unfortunately it also wears down very quickly. The one I've been using, well, it's pretty gory how much has worn away. But using a brand new one today, there's nothing quite like it. Not worth the money over defense grip base though.

I'm not sure if I prefer DB/SZ or Square Edge for attack at the moment though. I barely tested square edge as I bought it after I left - it was one of my last acquisitions alongside Orthrus G and CEW Metal Ball, so much that I didn't have it as a part I owned in my notes database (which I'm slowly resuming writing).

TA is still the most consistent and balanced stadium Takara made (of course, I haven't tried the burst one). Fragile, mind. Cross Griffon loves to chew the walls.
Perhaps “better” is different for ppl.  I definitely prefer the softer Seaborg and GFCUV vs Uriel 2.  Uriel 2 tip is just way too hard for my liking.  Here is a comparison

Softer rubber

https://youtu.be/TRuTx2xgArs

Interesting, I find my uriel 2 tips have been faster and also much better at rotational recoil control (i.e. grippier when it's actually in the dish, which is unfortunately why it wears so fast). But many things in life are a preference, and beyblades will always be a matter of that - all my posts are best taken as opinion/written from my own perspective.

One other note about Screw Zeus - the weight and lower recoil than Square Edge helps a tonne against Driger V2, especially on defense grip base (which is more susceptible to getting lifted I guess)
I've re-added Dragon Saucer + Screw Zeus to the list after Dan pointed out there are orientations that fit perfectly - they even have wiggle room. I'll include some orientation pictures in the OP when I get the chance, to help clarify legal positions. I consider two person verification enough but if anyone has issues with this, let me know!

Also added Mirage Goddess. I previously assessed it as a Hyper Aggro AR, but it doesn't have Hyper Aggro recoil (works okay on SG Metal Flat Base), and compares favourably to Triple Wing.

AR: Variable
WD: 10 Wide (SonoKong Heavy Mold)
SG: Neo Right SG (Regular SG Core Part)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Attack Mode)

Defender:
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: 10 Heavy
BB: Metal Ball Base (4 Balls)

Results:

Mirage Goddess: 7W 3L (6KO, 1OS from wall bounces)
TD: 3W 7L (2OS, 1KO)

Triple Wing: 6W 4L (6KO)
TD: 4W 6L (3OS, 1KO)

EDIT:
Just doing an edit to avoid a triplepost - I've been testing Triple Wing in left, as its contact points are really, really good, even if they're not quite the same as in right. Super promising and I know it was mentioned back in the day. I'll do a comparative vs Eight Spiker tomorrow (my city is in lockdown for 3 days due to COVID, so I grabbed all my beys from my parents Grin )

Update:
Same combos as above, except left SG on attacker
Triple Wing: 7W 3L (7 Win by KO, 1 loss via KO, 2 by OS)
Eight Spiker: 7W 3L (7 Win by KO, 3 by OS)
Putting it there, it's good. Also adding great dragon with screw zeus again as there is a legal orientation, though it doesn't add much.
GUYSGUYSGUYSGUYSGUYSGUYSGUYS

[Image: L39LvIC.jpg]

Great Dragon+War Bear (same conditions as above, left spin):
8W (all KO) 2L (2OS). Those 2 OS's were unlucky too.

I haven't tested in right because War Bear is really fragile in right spin, and thus I'm not sure about putting it up there. I'll look at it later maybe.

It's my new favourite smash ar, tho Smile
Has anyone tried Dark Wing AR with Galeon's War Lion SAR? I don’t have a stadium (not for a while probably and I need to buy a second Dark Wing to use so I don't want to test it until I do that) but in theory I think it could be good as it exposes the contact points. War Lion is fixed in place too and there's no (visible) bending or strain on any of the parts. If I remember correctly I saw a previous complaint about how Dark Wing's SAR "gets in the way" or along those words, so using War Lion might solve that as it's smaller diameter than Dark Wing AR's contact points.

Suggested combo something like this:
AR: Dark Wing AR + War Lion SAR (any orientation)
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Right Casings + Metal Weight Core/HMC (IDK if HMC would be better, using Wide Defense seems already quite heavy)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Inverted Tip)
(Apr. 24, 2021  7:50 PM)rxmnrng Wrote: [ -> ]Has anyone tried Dark Wing AR with Galeon's War Lion SAR? I don’t have a stadium (not for a while probably and I need to buy a second Dark Wing to use so I don't want to test it until I do that) but in theory I think it could be good as it exposes the contact points. War Lion is fixed in place too and there's no (visible) bending or strain on any of the parts. If I remember correctly I saw a previous complaint about how Dark Wing's SAR "gets in the way" or along those words, so using War Lion might solve that as it's smaller diameter than Dark Wing AR's contact points.

Suggested combo something like this:
AR: Dark Wing AR + War Lion SAR (any orientation)
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Right Casings + Metal Weight Core/HMC (IDK if HMC would be better, using Wide Defense seems already quite heavy)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Inverted Tip)
I tried a few rounds.  Seems to perform as well as stock SAR.

https://youtu.be/JIWKsuinzzA
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