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I've tried it before. I found it gets in the way more than dark wing sar but I'll have another look for you later today Smile

Edit: yeah same as stock for me too. I'll do some formal testing later today tho before I chuck it on the list. Good thinking man Smile
(Apr. 25, 2021  12:52 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]I've tried it before. I found it gets in the way more than dark wing sar but I'll have another look for you later today Smile

Edit: yeah same as stock for me too. I'll do some formal testing later today tho before I chuck it on the list. Good thinking man Smile



I tried it as well, basically the equivalent to the original SAR. But considering there isn't a considerable improvement, is there really a point in having it stand out?

For example, I used War Monkey's SAR. It's four sided, a tight fit, and doesn't move much at all. By all means not a great choice for Dark Wing on paper, as it can get in the way. It performs about the same as stock and War Lion. Not significantly better, not significantly worse. Dark Wing still gets hard hits off, because it is Dark Wing doing Dark Wing things. I didn't even intend to align it in a particular way to have contact points more exposed. Should we really be listing off all compatible SAR combos when they simply just exist, not adding anything that the out of the box AR+SAR combo doesn't already do? If someone has Dark Wing, I can't imagine they don't also have the SAR that comes with it.
(Apr. 25, 2021  10:47 PM)Dan Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 25, 2021  12:52 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]I've tried it before. I found it gets in the way more than dark wing sar but I'll have another look for you later today Smile

Edit: yeah same as stock for me too. I'll do some formal testing later today tho before I chuck it on the list. Good thinking man Smile



I tried it as well, basically the equivalent to the original SAR. But considering there isn't a considerable improvement, is there really a point in having it stand out?

For example, I used War Monkey's SAR. It's four sided, a tight fit, and doesn't move much at all. By all means not a great choice for Dark Wing on paper, as it can get in the way. It performs about the same as stock and War Lion. Not significantly better, not significantly worse. Dark Wing still gets hard hits off, because it is Dark Wing doing Dark Wing things. I didn't even intend to align it in a particular way to have contact points more exposed. Should we really be listing off all compatible SAR combos when they simply just exist, not adding anything that the out of the box AR+SAR combo doesn't already do?  If someone has Dark Wing, I can't imagine they don't also have the SAR that comes with it.

Very good point. I guess we'd end up with a list like Dark Wing + (Dark Wing SAR/War Lion SAR/War Monkey SAR/Ark Pyramid SAR) if we did list them. The only case I see dark wing without the SAR is if someone breaks it or buys a lot that got a bit jumbled. Generally I err on the side of listing more things rather than less. 


Fwiw everyone, I am also looking at adding spoilered sections for non-top-tier types such as Upper Attack and other weird stuff (much as I don't want to list 10bBistool anywhere, there are things it beats). Maybe even moving force smash there as while it's good I'm not sure if it's really worth using over other stuff in the list. I will need to collate my data on those types though. I may alternatively roll these into the Types category of plasticsDB.
(Apr. 26, 2021  3:02 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 25, 2021  10:47 PM)Dan Wrote: [ -> ]I tried it as well, basically the equivalent to the original SAR. But considering there isn't a considerable improvement, is there really a point in having it stand out?

For example, I used War Monkey's SAR. It's four sided, a tight fit, and doesn't move much at all. By all means not a great choice for Dark Wing on paper, as it can get in the way. It performs about the same as stock and War Lion. Not significantly better, not significantly worse. Dark Wing still gets hard hits off, because it is Dark Wing doing Dark Wing things. I didn't even intend to align it in a particular way to have contact points more exposed. Should we really be listing off all compatible SAR combos when they simply just exist, not adding anything that the out of the box AR+SAR combo doesn't already do?  If someone has Dark Wing, I can't imagine they don't also have the SAR that comes with it.

Very good point. I guess we'd end up with a list like Dark Wing + (Dark Wing SAR/War Lion SAR/War Monkey SAR/Ark Pyramid SAR) if we did list them. The only case I see dark wing without the SAR is if someone breaks it or buys a lot that got a bit jumbled. Generally I err on the side of listing more things rather than less. 


Fwiw everyone, I am also looking at adding spoilered sections for non-top-tier types such as Upper Attack and other weird stuff (much as I don't want to list 10bBistool anywhere, there are things it beats). Maybe even moving force smash there as while it's good I'm not sure if it's really worth using over other stuff in the list. I will need to collate my data on those types though. I may alternatively roll these into the Types category of plasticsDB.

I agree, you either list it all or just the stock. Since it should technically already come with a perfectly fine SAR, it feels redundant to list XYZ SAR's when they're all about the same performance wise. Ark Pyramid SAR will be what I use going forward, because I think it looks dope (especially if you're using Dark Gaia Dragoon's Dark Wing), but yea.. redundant unless we go SAR by SAR determining which are on par, and then adding them in one by one. Which is a lot of work for a (probably) relatively meager conclusion. I don't mind helping with that if that's how you wanna do it, in case there is a diamond in the rough, but it definitely isn't efficient or "clean" looking.


As for including things that aren't cream of the crop, but more niche uses or interesting combos you should consider what you want this document to be like. Is this supposed to be the definitive "combos to win with" tier list, or is it supposed to be a comprehensive tier list of every subcategory/potentially useful but not metagame defining combos? Personally, the title points to the former. But, there is a serious case to be made for this to piece to be defining in the sense that it encompasses damn near everything decent. I think you already know which option I'm partial to, though like you said, the DB could really be that spot, and this could just be the "spin & win" type of list. Probably best to keep the comprehensive stuff to the DB, and the necessities be kept here.
(Apr. 26, 2021  4:47 AM)Dan Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr. 26, 2021  3:02 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]Very good point. I guess we'd end up with a list like Dark Wing + (Dark Wing SAR/War Lion SAR/War Monkey SAR/Ark Pyramid SAR) if we did list them. The only case I see dark wing without the SAR is if someone breaks it or buys a lot that got a bit jumbled. Generally I err on the side of listing more things rather than less. 


Fwiw everyone, I am also looking at adding spoilered sections for non-top-tier types such as Upper Attack and other weird stuff (much as I don't want to list 10bBistool anywhere, there are things it beats). Maybe even moving force smash there as while it's good I'm not sure if it's really worth using over other stuff in the list. I will need to collate my data on those types though. I may alternatively roll these into the Types category of plasticsDB.

I agree, you either list it all or just the stock. Since it should technically already come with a perfectly fine SAR, it feels redundant to list XYZ SAR's when they're all about the same performance wise. Ark Pyramid SAR will be what I use going forward, because I think it looks dope (especially if you're using Dark Gaia Dragoon's Dark Wing), but yea.. redundant unless we go SAR by SAR determining which are on par, and then adding them in one by one. Which is a lot of work for a (probably) relatively meager conclusion. I don't mind helping with that if that's how you wanna do it, in case there is a diamond in the rough, but it definitely isn't efficient or "clean" looking.


As for including things that aren't cream of the crop, but more niche uses or interesting combos you should consider what you want this document to be like. Is this supposed to be the definitive "combos to win with" tier list, or is it supposed to be a comprehensive tier list of every subcategory/potentially useful but not metagame defining combos? Personally, the title points to the former. But, there is a serious case to be made for this to piece to be defining in the sense that it encompasses damn near everything decent. I think you already know which option I'm partial to, though like you said, the DB could really be that spot, and this could just be the "spin & win" type of list. Probably best to keep the comprehensive stuff to the DB, and the necessities be kept here.

Yeah I'll have to examine that as we also have Dragon Breaker up there with War Lion which probably work with literally anything (except the goofy "Wing" SAR). I'll think on it today. 

Mmm, that's true, perhaps I will leave it for the DB, not too long now until I'm ready to set it public. This is after all intended to be the plastics gen cc list as with the other CC lists. I might even end up removing force smash from it - I'll test it some more but I might have been biased when adding it.

EDIT: Also, looking at putting up Upper Attack SP on Smash. It's an odd thing - they don't sit nice with Square Edge or Great Dragon+War Bear but in left spin they just have a habit of occasionally really thumping something. In what might be the most brutal thing I've ever seen in my many thousands of hours spinning tops, it actually full on tore circle survivor clean off the EG, snapping one of Circle Survivor's sides in the process. Of course, this probably puts a lot of stress on the BB and also is only really relevant with SG Grip Change Base's tip, but... boy howdy, when it goes off it just flings things across the room.
Also does better against Driger V2 and Weight Defense than DGB or SGGCB w/ defense ring/cross survivor from my testing so far. That said, I've previously found offensive sp to be quite useless so I'm not certain why this works well and if it is specific to the combination.

Edit 2: Just finished some testing, enlisting my father to launch driger v2. Dan also looked at it, and it looks like a severe case of second launch advantage because actually doing the 1 on 1 matches it doesn't help at all. Rip, driger v2 still stronk af.
Crossposting here as I am not sure what to do list wise.

Scissors Arm (Crab Diver) Testing:

Standard Testing Protocol. Right EZ Shooter/Left EG Shooter (Version 2) as appropriate, both with Dragon Winders. Stadium is Tornado Attack (for the real G's)

Some preliminary testing was done and I found MG core helps Crab a little, so I have used it here.

Combos:

Crab:
AR: Scissors Arm
WD: 10 Wide (Sonokong Heavy Mold, approx 15g)
SG: Neo Left SG (South Magnecore)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Attack Mode)

Manta
AR: Square Edge
WD: 10 Wide (Sonokong Heavy Mold, approx 15g)
SG: Neo Left SG (Regular SG Core Part)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Attack Mode)

TD:
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: 10 Heavy
BB: Metal Ball Base (4 Balls)

Combos:
Crab: 13W (13KO)
TD: 7W (3KO, 4OS)
Draws: 7 (!!!) Double KOs

Manta: 14W (14KO)
TD: 6W (2KO, 4OS)
Draws: 2 Double KOs

So it's good but... Those double KOs. The recoil it has is obnoxious - it's worse than Hasbro Hayate AR.

It does do really well on a worn Uriel 2 tip (as it wears, the rubber gets super soft and grippy) but mine is obnoxiously worn at this point (I sent a picture to Dan with the caption "wanna see some gore?"). It would be competitive on that but that's so niche I don't think it counts. On a fresh tip it's about the same as defense grip base - double KOs everywhere.

Changing the WD or SG to anything heavier gimps it too much to be effective, so this is as much recoil control as I can throw at it.

So I'm really torn. The results are relatively good, perhaps enough to go up, but the number of double KOs is dreadful and indicates an overwhelming recoil issue. I don't think it would actually be reliable in a tournament.

I think I will leave it off the list as there are so many alternatives that don't have that much recoil, but if anyone feels strongly about it from a philosophical level, I'd consider it for sure.

It's a shame, I was hoping to make a blog post with a bunch of carcinisation references if it was super strong.
(May. 02, 2021  4:48 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]Crossposting here as I am not sure what to do list wise.

Scissors Arm (Crab Diver) Testing:

Standard Testing Protocol. Right EZ Shooter/Left EG Shooter (Version 2) as appropriate, both with Dragon Winders. Stadium is Tornado Attack (for the real G's)

Some preliminary testing was done and I found MG core helps Crab a little, so I have used it here.

Combos:

Crab:
AR: Scissors Arm
WD: 10 Wide (Sonokong Heavy Mold, approx 15g)
SG: Neo Left SG (South Magnecore)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Attack Mode)

Manta
AR: Square Edge
WD: 10 Wide (Sonokong Heavy Mold, approx 15g)
SG: Neo Left SG (Regular SG Core Part)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Attack Mode)

TD:
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: 10 Heavy
BB: Metal Ball Base (4 Balls)

Combos:
Crab: 13W (13KO)
TD: 7W (3KO, 4OS)
Draws: 7 (!!!) Double KOs

Manta: 14W (14KO)
TD: 6W (2KO, 4OS)
Draws: 2 Double KOs

So it's good but... Those double KOs. The recoil it has is obnoxious - it's worse than Hasbro Hayate AR.

It does do really well on a worn Uriel 2 tip (as it wears, the rubber gets super soft and grippy) but mine is obnoxiously worn at this point (I sent a picture to Dan with the caption "wanna see some gore?"). It would be competitive on that but that's so niche I don't think it counts. On a fresh tip it's about the same as defense grip base - double KOs everywhere.

Changing the WD or SG to anything heavier gimps it too much to be effective, so this is as much recoil control as I can throw at it.

So I'm really torn. The results are relatively good, perhaps enough to go up, but the number of double KOs is dreadful and indicates an overwhelming recoil issue. I don't think it would actually be reliable in a tournament.

I think I will leave it off the list as there are so many alternatives that don't have that much recoil, but if anyone feels strongly about it from a philosophical level, I'd consider it for sure.

It's a shame, I was hoping to make a blog post with a bunch of carcinisation references if it was super strong.

RIP, appears Crab has absolutely cancerous recoil.  DJ - Fab!

Those results are good, for sure, but yea you got to keep it in context of what is already on the list. It's performing similarly, but slightly worse because of the propensity to double-KO. Honourable Mention at best. Maybe if Manta didn't exist, but it is clearly just a more consistent AR. Unless you find a way to control that, it wouldn't be fair to all the other ARs that don't suicide every chance they get while producing similar positive results.
AR: Hayate AR (Takara Mold)
WD: 10 Wide (SonoKong 15g)
SG: Neo Left SG (Regular SG Core Part)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Attack Mode)
Vs
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: 10 Heavy
BB: Metal Ball Base (4 Balls)

Hayate: 7KO
TD: 2OS, 1KO
Draw: 1 Double KO

I swear this AR knows it's banned and is just mad as hell about it. It's so aggressive. In one of the TD OS's, it got smashed into the wall 3 times in quick succession, so hard I had to check for damage.

The Takara AR seems to have less recoil than the Hasbro version (which has the big poles)

IMO it's absolutely one of the best Attack ARs of the generation.

For what it's worth, and I intend to make a picture-and-screenshot accompanied version of this case for this in the future if needed, maybe alongside a list of things that need to be clarified by the rulebook (gyro EG launch protocol, SAR inversion, storm grip base tip inversion, a general part stress rule rather than the one limited to screw zeus, jumping base/bk tip swap) but here's the outline: there is no indication it, or any other Hidden Spirit Part is supposed to be banned. The packaging literally shows it being used with a dragoon base as well as with its ownn and says you can do that.
In fact, there's no evidence that weight ring and the dumb as hell BB are meant to be banned either, and having used them, I don't believe it's harmful to have them legal. The only suss part is that the parts don't seem to have formal names, or at least if they did I can no longer find records of them.

Griffolyon and Salamalyon for their part were marketed as regular releases in all marketing material and the spin up guide books, there is absolutely no doubting they were intended to be legal. The parts all have normal names, including the bases, and Griffolyon's base even has its own gimmick of a semi free spinning shaft. It sucks yeah but it's a legit part.

Zeo and Aveiron are so late that there's no evidence either way, but their parts are interesting nonetheless and this point Takara wasn't doing goofy side lines that much - they also rereleased Griffolyon and Salamalyon in new colours as Bakutenryuu Etanzel and Donitrus - note, Bakutenryuu in the name, yet exactly like beys that were undoubtedly (IMO) legal. As such, I don't think these were banned either. Uncommon yeah but not banned.

The counterargument for Hayate and Aveiron/Zeo is that they do not appear in a number of lists of Beyblade releases, and do not have parts lists and stats on the box (which even Bearing Gyros has). They do have their own storyline as well. However they were released with the beyblade logo, branding, and were not explicitly banned by Takara that I can find. I suspect the confusion may have been with Hasbro's spinning spirits line (the figures on the top) or their illegality with the figures attached.
However, even if so, I think it's better to just keep people use their beyblades at this point. Hayate AR is also one of the most accessible high-power Smash ARs to boot.

#FreeHiddenSpirits #FreeHayate
Good news and bad news from me.
Here are the results:

AR: Hayate (Takara)
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Left
BB: Defense Grip Base
vs. 
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: 10 Heavy
SG: Right (should have used HMC though)
BB: SG Metal Ball Base (4 Metal Balls)

Match Breackdown (Click to View)
Hayate WR - 75% (6/8)

So yea, it is incredibly powerful, it has the potential to absolutely explode on its opponent. With that said, I didn't get to test it much before it exploded on itself. It burns bright, but short. If it didn't land its KO within the first few hits, goodnight Hayate. From the 8 rounds I was blessed with, though, that is very, very infrequent. It explodes on the opponent frequently, sent the defense combo absolutely flying.

Edit: This testing inspired me to take a look at Hammer Tusk (Rushing Boar's AR) again. In 2016 I was disappointed with it, but I noticed it performed decently well on taller BB's instead of lower ones, which is why I liked it most on Dragoon V2's CGB. With Defense Grip Base, though, it gets to go a lot faster at a decent height.
I tested it against the above compact combo, but added in an HMC at Th!nk's request. It performed similarly with or without HMC. The only noticeable difference was the HMC on the compact led to a few draws instead of straight up Tusk OS'.

Here are the results (Click to View)
Tusk Wins: 14/20 (4 OS, 11 KO)
Hammer Tusk WR - 70%

It isn't nearly as explosive as Hayate, but it is consistent enough. It can reliably KO at high speed, and managed to destabilize the compact enough to clinch some outspin victories by a hair or two. In a few cases it did even manage to hit the compact hard enough against the wall that it still left the stadium. But this was not common.
So contrary to popular belief (afaik), Eight Heavy is actually roughly the same weight if not more than Heavy. Heavy: 15.357g (Sample Size 8, 2 extremely light outliers removed from a total of 10, presumably fakes), vs Eight Heavy Indent Mold (Takara): 15.502g (7 Samples), Normal Mold (Hasbro): 15.388g

I've added it to compacts, moving both it and Heavy to a "Ten Heavy > " situation, based on previous testing.


Now I have to update summaries for so many different things on plasticsDB

Also, Zeo Attack Ring, while not currently legal (I'm pretty hopeful it will be soon), is probably going up as a Right Spin Smash Attack [H] AR. It's Legit. It also broke my Tiger Defenser, hence 10 rounds - but they were convincing... I'm gonna need to buy another, I'm starting to run really low.
Anyway, it both hits hard and can do it somewhat later in the match. It's great. Shame it's not as amazing in left.

Setup:

AR: Zeo Attack Ring
WD: Ten Wide (SonoKong Mold)
SG: Neo Right SG (Regular SG Core Part)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Attack Mode)

vs

AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: Ten Heavy
BB: Metal Ball Base (4 Balls)

Results

Zeo: 8W (All KO)
TD: 2W (1 OS, 1 KO)
Draws: 1 DKO

Overall the recoil is actually pretty okay, in contrast to my previous notes, I might add, but I've checked against some real heavy stuff which would show it if it had any real issues, I will probably re-test some other things, though I can say that Cybernetic Dragon is still butts. I wouldn't use it on anything other than DGB/CGCB Tip but nonetheless, it's not a one-hit wonder. It is more controllable than a lot of things on the list, honestly.
The power, however, is great. It has enough longevity to its KO potential that the only OS win from the compact was due to it interrupting the flower pattern at the TR repeatedly. On the whole, I'm very impressed. I've asked Dan to take a look at it for me as well, just to be sure.

The downside is that in the last match it cracked the back horn off my tiger defenser (the same spot they always break), and now I'm actually running very low on them - down to the last one that I am willing to risk breaking. (Update: Thanks to Teresa (see Dan's thread in the marketplace) I will be comfortably resupplied for quite a while just in time for most of my new stuff to show up - here's hoping Trident Vector is great but not a killer).

I may have to go through and trim the list somewhat but they're honestly all pretty even options. I dunno.
I've tried to get ark pyramid to work for smash attack, but I can't get solid results. Does it need grip change base to be effective?
(May. 11, 2021  4:39 PM)Flame~Capricorn Wrote: [ -> ]I've tried to get ark pyramid to work for smash attack, but I can't get solid results. Does it need grip change base to be effective?


Not particularly, DGB works about as well, but Ark Pyramid is not a competitive part as a Core AR.. The SAR is a decent choice for dark wing, opted to put it and dark wing sar as the SAR options just for their balance with the AR.
(May. 11, 2021  4:42 PM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]
(May. 11, 2021  4:39 PM)Flame~Capricorn Wrote: [ -> ]I've tried to get ark pyramid to work for smash attack, but I can't get solid results. Does it need grip change base to be effective?


Not particularly, DGB works about as well, but Ark Pyramid is not a competitive part as a Core AR.. The SAR is a decent choice for dark wing, opted to put it and dark wing sar as the SAR options just for their balance with the AR.

Ah, I misread the list then. My bad.
All good! I'm glad to see someone else willing to use rarer parts like that at all Smile
hey I'm looking for good competitive combos for plastic generation. I haven't had a chance to look for combos. here's a link to all my plastic generation beyblades I ownhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/407581227102524/permalink/464960814697898/
(May. 14, 2021  10:44 PM)JacobR Wrote: [ -> ]hey I'm looking for good competitive combos for plastic generation. I haven't had a chance to look for combos. here's a link to all my plastic generation beyblades I ownhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/407581227102524/permalink/464960814697898/

Unfortunately that is a private group, so I can't see anything.
(May. 15, 2021  12:34 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]
(May. 14, 2021  10:44 PM)JacobR Wrote: [ -> ]Here is a better look at my collection. Also I'm adding dranzer MF collection soon
https://www.instagram.com/p/CHFHQUHl2MA/...heif3caoud

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHwYjgilVas/...jb4xknuqw3 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIXidY_Fw7a/...87ci5h5xwa

Unfortunately that is a private group, so I can't see anything.
AR: manta diver OR Gaia dragoon g (or v, if you have it) + Zeus SAR WD: 10 wide sg: whatever left SG BB: seaborg, tip inverted.

AR: roller defenser, WD: 10 heavy, eg: rock bison BB: wolborg 4 cew: wolborg 4

Driger v2 with a heavy metal core and 10 heavy

Can't see if you have wide defense or wide survivor there, if so just consult the list for zombies etc (note you'll need 2 shielded ball bearings to use burning Kerberous SG properly) and driger v2 would be better with wide defense than 10 heavy as well.


Sorry for the formatting of this post being bad, long day and my brain is fried
Hey guys I'm doing a tournament for plastic generation. If you want to test out your combos in this tournament let me know. Here is the link to the pictures. https://www.instagram.com/p/CO8o4yzFl0l/...3qu10e3ukr
Ok, so my uriel 2 arrived in the mail, and I'm thoroughly impressed by the speed and controllability of the grip change base tip. Unfortunately, it is really loose when used with my wolborg 2 casings. I have found, however, that the tip fits just as well, if not better, with the casings for spiral change base's sg.
(May. 21, 2021  7:56 PM)Flame~Capricorn Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, so my uriel 2 arrived in the mail, and I'm thoroughly impressed by the speed and controllability of the grip change base tip. Unfortunately, it is really loose when used with my wolborg 2 casings. I have found, however, that the tip fits just as well, if not better, with the casings for spiral change base's sg.

That's odd - I have 3 Uriel 2 tips and 3 or 4 sets of wolborg 2 casings and all combinations of mine fit *very* snugly. I will have a look at SG Free Shaft Version with it.
(May. 22, 2021  1:25 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]
(May. 21, 2021  7:56 PM)Flame~Capricorn Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, so my uriel 2 arrived in the mail, and I'm thoroughly impressed by the speed and controllability of the grip change base tip. Unfortunately, it is really loose when used with my wolborg 2 casings. I have found, however, that the tip fits just as well, if not better, with the casings for spiral change base's sg.

That's odd - I have 3 Uriel 2 tips and 3 or 4 sets of wolborg 2 casings and all combinations of mine fit *very* snugly. I will have a look at SG Free Shaft Version with it.

It is possible that the wolborg 2 casings I have are worn, as the blade wasn't exactly in perfect condition when I got it.
(May. 22, 2021  2:13 AM)Flame~Capricorn Wrote: [ -> ]
(May. 22, 2021  1:25 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]That's odd - I have 3 Uriel 2 tips and 3 or 4 sets of wolborg 2 casings and all combinations of mine fit *very* snugly. I will have a look at SG Free Shaft Version with it.

It is possible that the wolborg 2 casings I have are worn, as the blade wasn't exactly in perfect condition when I got it.

It is hard to imagine the casings themselves being worn in a way where it isn't as tight/closed as it should be. I've never had such an issue either, but I will say my currently set up isn't particularly loose, but there is a little bit of wiggle to it, if I'm remembering correctly. Though I figured that is normal since my last one was like that too. I actually avoid using the base unless necessary, because I'm not looking to replace the tip any time soon if I can help it.
(May. 22, 2021  2:13 AM)Flame~Capricorn Wrote: [ -> ]
(May. 22, 2021  1:25 AM)th!nk Wrote: [ -> ]That's odd - I have 3 Uriel 2 tips and 3 or 4 sets of wolborg 2 casings and all combinations of mine fit *very* snugly. I will have a look at SG Free Shaft Version with it.

It is possible that the wolborg 2 casings I have are worn, as the blade wasn't exactly in perfect condition when I got it.

My tips doesn't fit in any of my SG (Free Shaft Version) casings 😬

I've been reviewing SSUA combos recently.

The Bad:
Flame wing (Right) is not aggresive enough, I'm going to remove it from the cc list as it doesn't effectively KO stuff like zombies.
Upper wing (Right) doesn't have enough power.
Cross Dranzer (Left/Right) is good at spin stealing but doesn't have enough power to deal with things like zombies in either spin direction. It's a usable setup, but not good enough.
Triple Tiger (Right) doesn't steal spin effectively enough.
Whale Attacker (Righg) is too aggressive to steal spin.
G Upper (Left) is too aggressive to steal spin
Panther Head (Left) is too aggressive to steal spin.

The Good:

Upper Dragoon and Triangle Wing (Left/Right), obviously.

Upper Claw (Right) proves its place on the cc list is deserved and works amazingly well for right spin SSUA, it's aggressive but can still spin steal, might be my go to here, were right spin SSUA at all useful.

Gyro Defense was the big surprise. It has too much recoil in right spin and kinda sucks there, however in left it is fantastic - it doesn't upper attack as much as other options though in one instance it managed to get the zombie to "gattyaki" it and promptly demonstrated the point that "landing in top of an opponent is a bad idea, actually" by escorting it neatly out of the ring. May be more upward smash tbh (where it's hitting with a sloped surface using motion rather than rotation) but what it does do really well is destabilise things - the sloped surface that is a huge liability on a passive combo can deal a tonne of destabilisation on an aggressive combo, causing things to scrape badly. It also nets some smash KOs as well, and the ridiculously good weight distribution and destabilisation ability lets it net outspins against opposing zombies (I've only used wide defense on my zombie in this matchup, which should be optimal for same spin matchups). I have to wait til I have a new roller defense ring on hand so I don't accidentally oversell this thing but I'm bullish about the prospects.

Customize Grip Base: while it reduces the combos ability to take hits as it makes it harder to grip the tornado ridge, CGB+Defense Ring provides great LAD to the type and is worth considering.

Full Auto Clutch Base: much like CGB but moreso. It moves faster than the other options as it fixes the shaft in place, which can be good or bad, and doesn't grab the TR well. Great LAD though, and again worth considering
I'm reworking the list a bit, but for the time being I've added a note that the black version of gaia dragoon's AR (Great Dragon) appears to have similar issues to uriel 2 in terms of fragility (and the way it breaks). This is based off the one I bought recently shattering immediately with the same break pattern as a gold piece, and the fact I've had the same issue with parts I had of a previous one. The plastics is a unique colour (has a dark purple tinge) thus I assume a bad mix, like gold plastic here and in transformers and the lime green parts in some years of bionicle, red in some sets and reddish brown in a lot of lego system sets as well. I'm also going to remove neo cross horn from the list as the many alternatives can actually get through a whole match whereas nch probably won't. I will leave SG GCB up despite its fragility as it has unique uses (being able to use an HMC with the excellent tip and being just a little bit taller than other options with similar power means it is great against circle survivor, for example.)
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