(Oct. 29, 2011 4:14 AM)gibsonmac Wrote: [ -> ]No way huh Hazel... I've done it a billion times with Phantom RF... Hell BD RF... BBP BD RF (Yes Big Bang Pegasus)... that is how you beat Basalt BD145MB with lower smash/power wheels... You TS the thing with a pime-worn RF and you either 'nudge' Basalt out right away while it flowers out, or you OS the thing... Try it before you claim things without PERSONAL tests... and this is not just me, I got the idea from talking to people on this forum, so many people are able to do this... Also phantom can straight KO Basalt so its not necessary to TS it.
We're talking about Hell RF, here, first of all. You cannot go "I can do it with x wheel so it will work with y wheel". I mentioned the flowering already, and as for OSing, I'm still skeptical of Hell RF OSing Basalt BD145MB via tornado stall. I will remain so until I see tests, and in
your case, videos.
I tried with CS on Basalt and I couldn't get anything by Tornado Stalling.
(Oct. 29, 2011 4:31 AM)Hazel Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 29, 2011 4:14 AM)gibsonmac Wrote: [ -> ]No way huh Hazel... I've done it a billion times with Phantom RF... Hell BD RF... BBP BD RF (Yes Big Bang Pegasus)... that is how you beat Basalt BD145MB with lower smash/power wheels... You TS the thing with a pime-worn RF and you either 'nudge' Basalt out right away while it flowers out, or you OS the thing... Try it before you claim things without PERSONAL tests... and this is not just me, I got the idea from talking to people on this forum, so many people are able to do this... Also phantom can straight KO Basalt so its not necessary to TS it.
We're talking about Hell RF, here, first of all. You cannot go "I can do it with x wheel so it will work with y wheel". I mentioned the flowering already, and as for OSing, I'm still skeptical of Hell RF OSing Basalt BD145MB via tornado stall. I will remain so until I see tests, and in your case, videos.
you shouldn't wait to
see tests, but perform them yourself... if you can't get the same/similar results, then that strategy is not for you, but if you can, well then you'll know for sure...
And even if you can't replicate the results, it doesn't mean it can't happen, just means you can't do it
yet... like all the 'great upsets' in this game, there is a special technique employed to achieve winning results, ie Bluezee's 85 beating 230 in stamina, or S being the best Stamina bottom, you gotta have the proper launch and strategy to make it work.
We base the tier thread around parts that require less luck and "magic destiny sparkle powder".
I do not personally own MB, so testing it would be difficult. I do know that even an aggressive CS will not easily be outspun by an RF, however, so I cannot imagine a tip with less stadium friction doing worse.
(Oct. 29, 2011 5:16 AM)gibsonmac Wrote: [ -> ]you shouldn't wait to see tests, but perform them yourself... if you can't get the same/similar results, then that strategy is not for you, but if you can, well then you'll know for sure...
Hello beautiful words.
Actions speak louder than words.
Plus, I don't get (not specifically in this thread) why people seem to feel a need to say that there's things wrong about something that they haven't tried.
I get there's a line between good and helpless, but if any one person were to be able to distinguish that line correctly, they'd be the smartest person alive. More often than not, Beyblade is an opinionated matter.
Very true Shaba... a lot of it comes down to personal preference/what looks cool lol...
And I would call it technique more than 'magic destiny sparkle powder'
(Oct. 29, 2011 5:23 AM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 29, 2011 5:16 AM)gibsonmac Wrote: [ -> ]you shouldn't wait to see tests, but perform them yourself... if you can't get the same/similar results, then that strategy is not for you, but if you can, well then you'll know for sure...
Hello beautiful words.
Actions speak louder than words.
Plus, I don't get (not specifically in this thread) why people seem to feel a need to say that there's things wrong about something that they haven't tried.
I get there's a line between good and helpless, but if any one person were to be able to distinguish that line correctly, they'd be the smartest person alive.
More often than not, Beyblade is an opinionated matter.
Simple logic can tell people many things. Not everything needs to be tested for its prowess to be measurable. That is a simple fact. Dark Bump King ED145HF/S is not going to require tests, alright? We are at a point in the metagame where most parts have been thoroughly tested to death, and if you're all just going to stroll around going "TEST IT YOURSELF, DON'T BELIEVE THE WBO'S LIES", then this forum is without use. Most people here do not have the time to commit to testing every inane little thing - they depend on competent, reliable people to do it for them.
It really is quite possible to determine the effectiveness of many things without personal testing - either through history, blatant obvious fact, or simple common sense, it is not the impossible feat you two propagandists are making it out to be.
Apparently you are all just plum forgetting that we're trying to build a list of factual function, not opinionated orthodox.
and, gibson, if that "technique" is something that the wide majority - or even competitive minority - cannot employ reliably, then it is, in fact, magic destiny sparkle powder.
(Oct. 29, 2011 5:22 AM)Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]We base the tier thread around parts that require less luck and "magic destiny sparkle powder".
Damn Straight!
Are you sure there is no problem with your MB i have tired many rounds with CS (A calm one and aggressive one) and nothing. Is there a special way to tornado stall.
if only I could understand all those big words 
No, that's not what I'm trying to say.
What I'm saying, is that if something isn't the best, why does it not deserve to be discussed? Why is that person's tests wrong? You're not battling them for $10,000,000 or JR_Tiger's Beyblade collection.
If you don't like it, big deal. Like I said there is a line between good and helpless, but the line is different for everyone. He's not making threads each of which say the game is destroyed like we had in the past.
If he tested it and that's what he got, there's no way you can say his tests are invalid. Maybe not relevant to you, but tests happened, there may be biasses and even special magic powder, but that's not to say it's not possible. If nobody in the entire planet can replicate it, it's still not invalid. He never said it was a be-all-end-all solution, he's saying his thoughts. Got anything against thoughts?
If he's suggesting his thoughts as something for a tier spot when they're not commonly shared, I do take issue with it.
I will say it one last time. In bold letters. If a combo does not work for the masses, or even a minority larger than 3 or so people, then it is not deserving of a spot on this list. Yes, people may consider trying it, and should if they feel the inclination or just want to know more about it, but if the general consensus is that the combo doesn't work well for most people, the combo is not worth a spot.
I hope bold is more legible than not bold, for the sake of this thread's integrity. We need to stop squabbling and get back to actually contributing. I know, arguing is fun, but really.. we've managed to drift off topic enough that people are having trouble identifying what combo we were even discussing.
If we have disagreeing opinions, that's fine. But turning every single thread we're all involved in into "NO UR WRONG" is just... icky. I don't like icky things, and this is an icky thing.
Cordiality and respect must be restored. I share equal blame - many users here do. But, the shenanigans must stop.
I'm sorry, but I'm with Hazel on this.
Person 1: I can do this!
Person 2: I can do this!
Person 3: I can do this!
Persons 4-???: I can't do this!
Also, I'd like to see if Bakushin could be added somewhere to the list. And MAYBE Susanoo/Susanow. They're both great for STAM customs. Sorry I don't have any test to prove it though :V Just a thought.
In general, we do have quite a few parts that are still in need of serious testing. But, as I've mentioned, they need to be tested by numerous people, which complicates it. Many people do not want to mess up their painted wheels(especially when the minimum price for one is 25 bucks + two or more weeks of shipping time) in order to test the validity of the part.
This is exactly why Mercury has never been fully tested, and likely never will.
There is nothing wrong with my 3 MB's... I can do it to all of them, and its an RF not a CS...
Also It's called 'Skill' not magic, The tier list should not have to account for the lack of skill of the user, merely what the combo/part/wheel is capable of in the right hands... this isn't "the avg. joe the plummer's idiot proof" tier list, that would pretty mush consist of Basalt_ _MB/CS, it's the "TOP TIER" list, thus what combos can win a majority of matches, based on their parts, not their users lack of ability/incompetence... granted the 'masses' are not all going to be tournament winners, and most people around here are incapable of banking/sliding I guess (so says the advanced forum, banning basalt) does that mean that there should be no attack types on the list??? no RF??? Hell no it doesn't!!!
(Oct. 29, 2011 6:30 AM)gibsonmac Wrote: [ -> ]There is nothing wrong with my 3 MB's... I can do it to all of them, and its an RF not a CS...
Also It's called 'Skill' not magic, The tier list should not have to account for the lack of skill of the user, merely what the combo/part/wheel is capable of in the right hands... this isn't "the avg. joe the plummer's idiot proof" tier list, that would pretty mush consist of Basalt_ _MB/CS, it's the "TOP TIER" list, thus what combos can win a majority of matches, based on their parts, not their users lack of ability/incompetence... granted the 'masses' are not all going to be tournament winners, and most people around here are incapable of banking/sliding I guess (so says the advanced forum, banning basalt) does that mean that there should be no attack types on the list??? no RF??? Hell no it doesn't!!!
You skipped over my most recent post entirely, I see.
You have ideas for this thread that do not coincide with its reality. We did not post the crackpot combos that only Bluezee or th!nk could use right on this list, and we're not posting anyone else's, either. If you need to be Superman to use a combo right, and if you're in some MASSIVELY EXTREME MINORITY about a combo, then your combo is your combo, NOT a top tier combo.
We compile information for users of all skill levels, and there should be and are threads for specific combos and test findings that others cannot replicate that users who think they're hot stuff can try out. However, for general purpose(which is the intention of this thread), a combo that five out of five thousand people can use right is not applicable.
I covered this in my last several posts.
Please take the time to actually read this post and absorb its message in full.
Yep.
I can use a Q, but most people really can't. I can get decent results with it, along with SniperTM, but nobody else can.
We're a minority.
So we could both waltz up in here and say "sup guise we gots dese hurr testing results, checkem" and we had something with a Q on it beat a decent Basalt combo.
Does this mean it's top tier?
lolno
Why?
because there are only 2 people that can use it and this list is for about 50,000+
No, Q wouldn't make it because there are better options, you could take that same combo with RF and get better results, so thats why it doesn't make the list, not because people don't use it correctly, but because there are better bottoms that beat Basalt AND everything else, and you can't take one part against one combo and call it great, if you can take that one part and put it ON and AGAINST many combos and win with 75% +, then yeah I'd say it warrants a spot, but you can't, and even if you could, you can still 100% 20+ battles against Basalt with RF.... better options....
THAT'S NOT THE POINT THOUGH.
What I was getting at was if SNIPER AND I could produce those results LEGITIMATELY, but NO ONE ELSE could, then we could consider it OUR OWN TOP TIER. But OTHER PEOPLE wouldn't, because THEY can't use it like WE can!
WILL YOU PLEASE START READING FULL POSTS? I WASN'T TRYING TO EXPLAIN THAT Q WOULD WIN AGAINST A BASALT.
/raeg
(Oct. 29, 2011 6:30 AM)gibsonmac Wrote: [ -> ]There is nothing wrong with my 3 MB's... I can do it to all of them, and its an RF not a CS...
Also It's called 'Skill' not magic, The tier list should not have to account for the lack of skill of the user, merely what the combo/part/wheel is capable of in the right hands... this isn't "the avg. joe the plummer's idiot proof" tier list, that would pretty mush consist of Basalt_ _MB/CS, it's the "TOP TIER" list, thus what combos can win a majority of matches, based on their parts, not their users lack of ability/incompetence... granted the 'masses' are not all going to be tournament winners, and most people around here are incapable of banking/sliding I guess (so says the advanced forum, banning basalt) does that mean that there should be no attack types on the list??? no RF??? Hell no it doesn't!!!
I was referring to Basalt with CS sorry if it confused you. The advance forum is saying attack types are not used as much in tournaments AFIAK. I guess we should just listen to Hazel (Like always
) and stop arguing the combo doesn't work for me but if it works for you go ahead and use it.
this top tier list is based on testings, but this testings are only based on some top tier combos, but would everyone use this combos on tournaments, no !!! not everyone uses basalt kerbecs bd145 cs or mb only 1 or 2 from 30, but every time it will give a counter against this combo and you can´t say that this bey is the best or this wheel, yeah phantom wins against a lot of beys but did you test it against other not top tier 1 wheels, I will say you it will give a counter and that´s the ground why this list is not so right how do you think
(Oct. 29, 2011 11:44 AM)Glowfire1 Wrote: [ -> ]but would everyone use this combos on tournaments, no !!! not everyone uses basalt kerbecs bd145 cs or mb only 1 or 2 from 30
And you speak from experience ? Because there are surely a lot more people who use that combination, especially in some locations where it was reported to be SPAMmed at the tournaments ...
since phantom is out basalt isn´t very used
(Oct. 29, 2011 12:27 PM)Kai-V Wrote: [ -> ]And you speak from experience ?
MF Blitz Unicorno S130RF VS MF-H Earth Aquario BD145RS:
BU:8 (7 KO,1 OS)
EA:12 (10 OS,2 KO)
MF VariAres(Left Spin) CH120RF VS MF-H Earth Aquario BD145RS:
VA:5 (5 KO)
EA:15 (12 OS, 3 KO)
I will do more testing later on but for now I wnat you guys to try it
I feel that ED145 needs a place in defense and stamina combos, a lot of people used it here for them. and Earth....................... between tier 1 and 2. leans more to 2 so yeah, stays where it is. and MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145 CS is THROWN by MF Hell Libra 100 R2F, ask Destroy24, Bey Dort, Blitz Inzori, Rioge Inzori, or Crimson bey. they all saw it.
a long time ago some of us including me tested ED145 to it's best and found it's use in defense customs I'm sure ultra blader remembers that. It was proven to do better than GB145 at a time....