+- World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. (https://worldbeyblade.org)
+-- Forum: Beyblade Discussion (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Beyblade-Discussion)
+--- Forum: Beyblade Hobby Q&A (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Beyblade-Hobby-Q-A)
+--- Thread: Answered Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? (/Thread-Answered-Atomic-Defense-or-Stamina-Type)
Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? - tubitr - Jun. 12, 2021
So I got in to argument with some friends who are claiming that TT knows what they're doing when classifying parts...
They sent me this from the following from the wiki to prove that At is a defense type:
"In theory, the wider tip would increase a Beyblade's Knock-Out Defense by having greater surface area and friction. However, in practice, the free-rotating nature of the ball reduces most of the Knock-Out Defense given by the surface area of the ball. Like all other ball-based Performance Tips, the tabs around Atomic are meant to act as brakes against Knock-Outs at the cost of Stamina by striking against the stadium floor. However, the larger diameter makes such contact rare.
I tried to explain that this points to it being a stamina type but my words are falling on deaf ears...
So wbo, is Atomic not the best driver for same spin stamina? Does it not have a decent risk to be ko'ed, especially when hard launched?
Is it a defense type or stamina type part?
RE: Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? - Beybladedb - Jun. 12, 2021
Defence type with high stamina is what that driver is. Same spin stamina is xtend+ in stamina mode.
RE: Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? - JCE_13 - Jun. 12, 2021
(Jun. 12, 2021 4:07 PM)Beybladedb Wrote: Defence type with high stamina is what that driver is. Same spin stamina is xtend+ in stamina mode.
Even in defense mode.
RE: Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? - GreenK9148 - Jun. 12, 2021
Atomic is probable the best driver in same spin. But, it also falls into the problem that Takara tomy has with defense types. They can't make a (decent) pure defense type, all the "defense" beys have some stamina characteristics. I think atomic (classified as defense) does lean more towards defense than stamina, although it can have high stamina.
RE: Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? - Orbit - Jun. 12, 2021
TT also called fang Leone a defense type, yet has one of the worst defenses and one of the better offences. Dark Deathsyther was also an attack type layer, Dynamite belial is also an attack type and not balance, the “TT knows what they’re doing” argument is not valid.
RE: Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? - tubitr - Jun. 12, 2021
(Jun. 12, 2021 4:07 PM)Beybladedb Wrote: Defence type with high stamina is what that driver is. Same spin stamina is xtend+ in stamina mode.Atomic doesn't have notably good burst or knockout resistance tho, what makes it a good defense type?
(Jun. 12, 2021 4:21 PM)JCE_13 Wrote: Even in defense mode.
Guys you know that ball tips (generally) beat cone tips in same spin right?
Every Xtend+ combo in Kei's top combos article lists same spin ball tips as their weakness.
https://beybase.com/top-5-best-beyblade-burst-combos-2021/#best-beyblade-burst-combo-3-tempest-solomon-(mcc)-wheel-xtend+-1s
https://beybase.com/top-5-best-beyblade-burst-combos/
Also have you not heard of destabilisation :
https://youtu.be/JqlAa7JeoWQ
(this is mostly about mfb but Wombat talks about burst parts too)
RE: Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? - UnseenBurst - Jun. 12, 2021
Since Tornado Wyvern used it I'm guessing a defense driver
RE: Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Jun. 13, 2021
Takara Tomy classifies them wrongly sometimes - but not always.
Atomic is both Defence and Stamina, it has very good same spin stamina and is severely underated.
The primary construction for atomic was for defence, however that design also gave it stamina. So I would say it's a hybrid.
Something like Orbit Metal though, it's more of a defence driver
RE: Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? - Orbit - Jun. 13, 2021
I think that it’s a defense type because TT said so, but I also think that TT is wrong
In the end it’s classification is defense though
RE: Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? - valtaoi_007 - Jun. 13, 2021
(Jun. 12, 2021 5:59 PM)tubitr Wrote:according to the wiki:(Jun. 12, 2021 4:07 PM)Beybladedb Wrote: Defence type with high stamina is what that driver is. Same spin stamina is xtend+ in stamina mode.Atomic doesn't have notably good burst or knockout resistance tho, what makes it a good defense type?
Defense is a type of Beyblade that focuses on not being knocked out of the stadium, and finds a chance to cast a deadly counter-attack
which was the intention for atomic, wide so it does not knock out and the ring to counter
but the free spin ball ruined it completely but made it kinda better
so atomic is a defense driver officially but deep down its a stamina tip
so tt classified it wrong
it happens a lot (usually in mfb)
earth eagle, twisted tempo, ray unicorno (kinda), variares
sometimes it happens with burst , like royal genesis (hasbro, the one that its a stamina time even tho its supposed to be a defense type, but acts like an attack type)
Dead Phoenix (both anime stock and booster stock), Dynamite Belial, heaven pegasus
but unlike with mfb the gimmicks on burst are intended to be of the type the bey should be but the bey itself is better at another thing or just completely trash at the thing they should be good at
RE: Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? - Zeutron - Jun. 13, 2021
(Jun. 12, 2021 5:59 PM)tubitr Wrote:(Jun. 12, 2021 4:07 PM)Beybladedb Wrote: Defence type with high stamina is what that driver is. Same spin stamina is xtend+ in stamina mode.Atomic doesn't have notably good burst or knockout resistance tho, what makes it a good defense type?
(Jun. 12, 2021 4:21 PM)JCE_13 Wrote: Even in defense mode.
Guys you know that ball tips (generally) beat cone tips in same spin right?
Every Xtend+ combo in Kei's top combos article lists same spin ball tips as their weakness.
https://beybase.com/top-5-best-beyblade-burst-combos-2021/#best-beyblade-burst-combo-3-tempest-solomon-(mcc)-wheel-xtend+-1s
https://beybase.com/top-5-best-beyblade-burst-combos/
Also have you not heard of destabilisation :
https://youtu.be/JqlAa7JeoWQ
(this is mostly about mfb but Wombat talks about burst parts too)
I'm just going to quote and reply to particular points, not meant to be mocking or sarcastic, just me replying.
¨Atomic doesn't have notably good burst or knockout resistance tho, what makes it a good defense type¨?
Atomic is known for its difficulty in being completely destabilized and knocked over/off balance (due to the width of its ball alongside the purple ring around the circumference) which is basically one of the primary functions of defense types. Of course, it isn't a rule set in stone because there are some stamina types designed to be tough to knock over while some defense types may not be heavy on destabilization resistance but generally speaking, it is a trait belonging to defensive combinations. Many stamina types are designed to be able to benefit or adapt to being knocked over as opposed to flat out stopping the occurrence, take revolve and eternal as examples; they feature wide, curved plates allowing to continue spinning smoothly even when destabilized to a degree but this still wont stop them from being knocked over or pushed into awkward angled positions like a defensively designed driver would. Also, while atomic may not have the best ko resistance when compared to other defensive drivers, it still trumps most stamina type drivers.
¨Guys you know that ball tips (generally) beat cone tips in same spin right?¨
This has a lot more to do with inherent function and traits of ball tips rather than an implied superiority in pure stamina. First things first, it would be best to mention that it is usually the free spinning ball tips that come off as the main counter to cone/sharp tips due to their lowered friction. Sharp tips actually have a higher initially velocity since they produce the lowest amount of contact friction when launched properly while ball tips generally don't produce as much and it is usually through destabilization that ball tips beat sharp tips. If anything, it is more of an indication of the good defensive capability of atomic. Another thing to point out is the fact that many stamina type bottoms really don´t have great destabilization.
Overall, Atomic can be considered to be a driver of many uses. Heck, I have seen it used in pure stamina/defense combinations in the past as well. It has properties that you will find present in both defense and stamina based combos and it really isn't one or the other. In all fairness, I would say that Atomic leans a bit more to the stamina side but in terms of classification, I would call it a hybrid or balance type driver (balance between defense and stamina) since it has characteristics of both as I said previously mentioned. Nonetheless this doesn't mean that takara tomy is good at classifying their parts, they are often wrong about many of their classifications and it just so happens that they hit closer to the mark this time.
RE: Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? - tubitr - Jun. 13, 2021
(Jun. 13, 2021 4:59 AM)Zeutron Wrote: I'm just going to quote and reply to particular points, not meant to be mocking or sarcastic, just me replying.
Doesn't come off as mocking np 👍
(Jun. 13, 2021 4:59 AM)Zeutron Wrote: (...)Of course, it isn't a rule set in stone because there are some stamina types designed to be tough to knock over while some defense types may not be heavy on destabilization resistance but generally speaking, it is a trait belonging to defensive combinations. (...) Also, while atomic may not have the best ko resistance when compared to other defensive drivers, it still trumps most stamina type drivers.
Haven't tips that resist and are good at destabilisation mostly been used on stamina types?
Virgo 145 B, Duo 230 MB, Deathscyther on Orbit etc.
(Jun. 13, 2021 4:59 AM)Zeutron Wrote: (...)This has a lot more to do with inherent function and traits of ball tips rather than an implied superiority in pure stamina.
Yes that's more or less what the video I linked explains. I guess I could have made more of an effort to explain than post links .
(Jun. 13, 2021 4:59 AM)Zeutron Wrote: Overall, (...) that Atomic leans a bit more to the stamina side but in terms of classification, I would call it a hybrid or balance type driver (balance between defense and stamina) (...). Nonetheless this doesn't mean that takara tomy is good at classifying their parts, they are often wrong about many of their classifications and it just so happens that they hit closer to the mark this time.
Alright that's pretty reasonable.
RE: Atomic - Defense or Stamina Type? - Zeutron - Jun. 13, 2021
(Jun. 13, 2021 8:21 AM)tubitr Wrote:(Jun. 13, 2021 4:59 AM)Zeutron Wrote: (...)Of course, it isn't a rule set in stone because there are some stamina types designed to be tough to knock over while some defense types may not be heavy on destabilization resistance but generally speaking, it is a trait belonging to defensive combinations. (...) Also, while atomic may not have the best ko resistance when compared to other defensive drivers, it still trumps most stamina type drivers.
Haven't tips that resist and are good at destabilisation mostly been used on stamina types?
Virgo 145 B, Duo 230 MB, Deathscyther on Orbit etc.
Precisely, the thing about stamina types is that they have the biggest vulnerability to destabilization which is why drivers/tips with good defensive capabilities such as orbit and ball are good choices. Surprised to see metal ball there though, I don't think it was very destabilization resistant (if my memory serves me correctly).