(Oct. 06, 2020  8:35 PM)6Jupiter5 Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:34 PM)Phengpegasus Wrote: Lol the kid has no strategy. At this point, it doesn’t bother me if he wins, the episode is bound to be disappointing anyways. He’ll learn the hard way when facing lane.

He’ll probably beat Lane as a protagonist does

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:35 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:34 PM)Admiral W Wrote: We've been back and forth about this particular point already. The gap in power between these two is too great for Hyuga to bridge. Anything but a loss for him doesn't make sense.

You can bridge the gap with strategy, as I've been saying over and over again. Just only looking at power and using that to decide who wins or loses is just looking at it from a surface view. If you wanna properly see how could logically win and lose, you gotta look at the entire realm of possibility.

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:36 PM)Admiral W Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:27 PM)Apollo17 Wrote: That's a pretty bold statement to make, especially considering the fact that there are some ways that Valt could lose and it would still make sense. Also if you think about it, the writers have a lot of respect for the legends season (pretend Lane doesn't exist lol). They literally eliminated a PROTAGONIST from the festival just so that Lui and Drum would not lose (it would be weird if an A rank and 15th place legend beat the 5 and 6th place legends).

It would be just as weird, if not more so, for Hyuga to defeat the Legend of Legends. That's kinda the point I'm making.

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:37 PM)Admiral W Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:35 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote: You can bridge the gap with strategy, as I've been saying over and over again. Just only looking at power and using that to decide who wins or loses is just looking at it from a surface view. If you wanna properly see how could logically win and lose, you gotta look at the entire realm of possibility.

We had this discussion with regards to episode 25's tag battle. Even with all the strategizing that Hikaru and Rantaro did they couldn't overcome the raw power of Lui and Drum.

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:37 PM)Phengpegasus Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:35 PM)6Jupiter5 Wrote: He’ll probably beat Lane as a protagonist does

Not this early though. If anything, it’ll be at the end.

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:39 PM)6Jupiter5 Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:37 PM)Phengpegasus Wrote: Not this early though. If anything, it’ll be at the end.

It’s not impossible. Superking has suprised us at each turn

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:37 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:36 PM)Admiral W Wrote: It would be just as weird, if not more so, for Hyuga to defeat the Legend of Legends. That's kinda the point I'm making.

This is just looking at surface view, again. Just cause he's the strongest does not mean its impossible for anyone that's not on his tier to beat him.

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:37 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:36 PM)Admiral W Wrote: It would be just as weird, if not more so, for Hyuga to defeat the Legend of Legends. That's kinda the point I'm making.

This is just looking at surface view, again. Just cause he's the strongest does not mean its impossible for anyone that's not on his tier to beat him.

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(Oct. 06, 2020  8:37 PM)Admiral W Wrote: We had this discussion with regards to episode 25's tag battle. Even with all the strategizing that Hikaru and Rantaro did they couldn't overcome the raw power of Lui and Drum.

Those are two separate battles, we're talking about Valt and Hyuga. Either way, thats just throwing strategy out the window. Yes theirs didnt work, but that does not mean strategy as a whole can never work to bridge the gap.

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:41 PM)Admiral W Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:37 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote: This is just looking at surface view, again. Just cause he's the strongest does not mean its impossible for anyone that's not on his tier to beat him.

This is not surface level. When you examine Hyuga's current level, he's not powerful enough to contend with Valt. In the majority of his battles he's been swiftly defeated by the other legends and every once and a while he's gotten a fluke victory and then losses moments later. To go from that to defeating The Legend of Legends, is ridiculous. You can't make that kinda leap without anything storywise to support such a huge jump in power.

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:48 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:41 PM)Admiral W Wrote: This is not surface level. When you examine Hyuga's current level, he's not powerful enough to contend with Valt. In the majority of his battles he's been swiftly defeated by the other legends and every once and a while he's gotten a fluke victory and then losses moments later. To go from that to defeating The Legend of Legends, is ridiculous. You can't make that kinda leap without anything storywise to support such a huge jump in power.

Again, thats just looking at power level. Ignoring every else.  Valtryek has tailed and repeatedly smashed into Hyperion. Hyperion swings around to counter attack. This is something that can be a fair counter to what the "Legend of Legends" is doing. Just saying "Well Hyuga is way weaker so there's no way he can win" is not looking at the whole battle. Hyperion can fairly win. There's no need to a jump in power, cause power is not everything, which you seem to think.

Look at this for example
Hyperion and Valtryek start off clashing, Hyperion is blown back. Valtryek tails and smashes Hyperion. In response, Hyperion swings around for a counter. Valtryek is blown back to the rim and speeds up. Hyperion is blown farther back to the speed cradle  and speeds up. they corm together for a clash and Valtryek bounds Hyperion high in the sky. Hyperion comes down  from way up high, wears out Exceed, and goes in full force. Valtryek is blown away for a ringout and Hyperion just barely stays in the stadium.

Wow look, a reasonable way for Hyperion to win, without them pretending like Hyuga is suddenly at Valt's level. No way.

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:48 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:41 PM)Admiral W Wrote: This is not surface level. When you examine Hyuga's current level, he's not powerful enough to contend with Valt. In the majority of his battles he's been swiftly defeated by the other legends and every once and a while he's gotten a fluke victory and then losses moments later. To go from that to defeating The Legend of Legends, is ridiculous. You can't make that kinda leap without anything storywise to support such a huge jump in power.

Again, thats just looking at power level. Ignoring every else.  Valtryek has tailed and repeatedly smashed into Hyperion. Hyperion swings around to counter attack. This is something that can be a fair counter to what the "Legend of Legends" is doing. Just saying "Well Hyuga is way weaker so there's no way he can win" is not looking at the whole battle. Hyperion can fairly win. There's no need to a jump in power, cause power is not everything, which you seem to think.

Look at this for example
Hyperion and Valtryek start off clashing, Hyperion is blown back. Valtryek tails and smashes Hyperion. In response, Hyperion swings around for a counter. Valtryek is blown back to the rim and speeds up. Hyperion is blown farther back to the speed cradle  and speeds up. they corm together for a clash and Valtryek bounds Hyperion high in the sky. Hyperion comes down  from way up high, wears out Exceed, and goes in full force. Valtryek is blown away for a ringout and Hyperion just barely stays in the stadium.

Wow look, a reasonable way for Hyperion to win, without them pretending like Hyuga is suddenly at Valt's level. No way.

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:06 PM)ValtKurenai2020 Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  7:12 PM)Legend Red Eye Wrote: The only reason why Hyuga will proceed to finals is because Hyperion is gonna break and that's when Shu will not tolerate Lean and punish him for his deeds to make him realize "look kid bey breaking is bad"

Then I have a different scenario for this.
After Valt defeats Lean in Finals then Shu will think that Now lean will come to the track but Lean's Flare and Ambition to defeat Valt and Shu will grow more and more.
Then the Brothers challenge Lean for a Battle since Lean defeated Aiga. At that time Shu will watch the battle and will see that Lucifer breaking Helios and Hyperion.
Then after that either lean will challenge shu or shu will challenge lean and will break lucifer after this Lean and both the brothers will make a new bey .

(Oct. 06, 2020  9:00 PM)Admiral W Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:48 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote: Again, thats just looking at power level. Ignoring every else.  Valtryek has tailed and repeatedly smashed into Hyperion. Hyperion swings around to counter attack. This is something that can be a fair counter to what the "Legend of Legends" is doing. Just saying "Well Hyuga is way weaker so there's no way he can win" is not looking at the whole battle. Hyperion can fairly win. There's no need to a jump in power, cause power is not everything, which you seem to think.

Look at this for example
Hyperion and Valtryek start off clashing, Hyperion is blown back. Valtryek tails and smashes Hyperion. In response, Hyperion swings around for a counter. Valtryek is blown back to the rim and speeds up. Hyperion is blown farther back to the speed cradle  and speeds up. they corm together for a clash and Valtryek bounds Hyperion high in the sky. Hyperion comes down  from way up high, wears out Exceed, and goes in full force. Valtryek is blown away for a ringout and Hyperion just barely stays in the stadium.

Wow look, a reasonable way for Hyperion to win, without them pretending like Hyuga is suddenly at Valt's level. No way.

This is a direct engagement. Where a blader's level of power is even more at play. Strategy can only take you so far when the gap in power is too wide. As we've seen in previous battles (Lui and Drum vs Hikaru and Rantaro) Even when the level is somewhat close, strategy still may not do the trick. In the tag battle between Silas and Drum vs Lane and Aiga, Silas' and Drum's strategy went off without a hitch and they still were defeated. In this case, when the gap is quite wide, then Hyuga's winning would be truly ridiculous.

(Oct. 06, 2020  9:01 PM)God Dragruler Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  8:48 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote: Again, thats just looking at power level. Ignoring every else.  Valtryek has tailed and repeatedly smashed into Hyperion. Hyperion swings around to counter attack. This is something that can be a fair counter to what the "Legend of Legends" is doing. Just saying "Well Hyuga is way weaker so there's no way he can win" is not looking at the whole battle. Hyperion can fairly win. There's no need to a jump in power, cause power is not everything, which you seem to think.

Look at this for example
Hyperion and Valtryek start off clashing, Hyperion is blown back. Valtryek tails and smashes Hyperion. In response, Hyperion swings around for a counter. Valtryek is blown back to the rim and speeds up. Hyperion is blown farther back to the speed cradle  and speeds up. they corm together for a clash and Valtryek bounds Hyperion high in the sky. Hyperion comes down  from way up high, wears out Exceed, and goes in full force. Valtryek is blown away for a ringout and Hyperion just barely stays in the stadium.

Wow look, a reasonable way for Hyperion to win, without them pretending like Hyuga is suddenly at Valt's level. No way.

that thing is you're the who's strategizing how valt could loses but you seem to forget hyuga Doesn't do strategy in battle he just battle as a simply attack type blader he doesn't think all that much ,everything  you just breakdown is what hikaru would not hyuga. plus even then it's not like is dumb to not see it at all remember when kit try the strategy to get valt burst lock in and valt quickly saw throw it and he just power throw air knight.

(Oct. 06, 2020  9:10 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  9:00 PM)Admiral W Wrote: This is a direct engagement. Where a blader's level of power is even more at play. Strategy can only take you so far when the gap in power is too wide. As we've seen in previous battles (Lui and Drum vs Hikaru and Rantaro) Even when the level is somewhat close, strategy still may not do the trick. In the tag battle between Silas and Drum vs Lane and Aiga, Silas' and Drum's strategy went off without a hitch and they still were defeated. In this case, when the gap is quite wide, then Hyuga's winning would be truly ridiculous.

The entire battle isnt a direct engagement though, and as I've said a million times, POWER ISNT EVERYTHING. Just because the other bladers strategies didnt work doesnt mean its impossible for strategy to work period. Eitehr way, Hyperion can still survive a direct engagement though.

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(Oct. 06, 2020  9:01 PM)God Dragruler Wrote: that thing is you're the who's strategizing how valt could loses but you seem to forget hyuga Doesn't do strategy in battle he just battle as a simply attack type blader he doesn't think all that much ,everything  you just breakdown is what hikaru would not hyuga. plus even then it's not like is dumb to not see it at all remember when kit try the strategy to get valt burst lock in and valt quickly saw throw it and he just power throw air knight.

Hyuga doesnt go into a battle with a strategy, however based on whats happening he can counterattack and stuff.

(Oct. 06, 2020  9:15 PM)Admiral W Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  9:10 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote: The entire battle isnt a direct engagement though, and as I've said a million times, POWER ISNT EVERYTHING. Just because the other bladers strategies didnt work doesnt mean its impossible for strategy to work period. Eitehr way, Hyperion can still survive a direct engagement though.

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Hyuga doesnt go into a battle with a strategy, however based on whats happening he can counterattack and stuff.

Not saying power is everything. Strategy is important. But all the strategy in the world will not help when your opponent vastly eclipse's you in power. As we've seen in numerous battles before.

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We've had numerous examples of that very principle.

(Oct. 06, 2020  10:26 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  9:15 PM)Admiral W Wrote: Not saying power is everything. Strategy is important. But all the strategy in the world will not help when your opponent vastly eclipse's you in power. As we've seen in numerous battles before.

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We've had numerous examples of that very principle.

Valt is strong, but his strength doesnt just eclipse out Hyuga. We've seen Hyperion clash against him fine in the preview, so I dont see your point there.

(Oct. 06, 2020  10:52 PM)Admiral W Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  10:26 PM)Eclipse Force Wrote: Valt is strong, but his strength doesnt just eclipse out Hyuga. We've seen Hyperion clash against him fine in the preview, so I dont see your point there.

Valt is far stronger than him as we've seen in all their previous battles. In fact, all of their battles have been one contact bursts.

(Oct. 06, 2020  11:04 PM)Valtryek Aoi Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  10:52 PM)Admiral W Wrote: Valt is far stronger than him as we've seen in all their previous battles. In fact, all of their battles have been one contact bursts.

Granted Hyuga is somewhat stronger since then, but not by a massive amount. Only logical way for would be the first time I'd have to admit to Sparking plot armor. No way he can power jump or strategize to win this battle without four leaf clovers.

(Oct. 06, 2020  11:17 PM)6Jupiter5 Wrote: I think it’s kind of funny how Valt and Aiga battled a reflection of their younger self

(Oct. 07, 2020  1:20 AM)g2_ Wrote:

(Oct. 06, 2020  11:17 PM)6Jupiter5 Wrote: I think it’s kind of funny how Valt and Aiga battled a reflection of their younger self

Wow, that's actually cool.

(Oct. 07, 2020  1:22 AM)6Jupiter5 Wrote:

(Oct. 07, 2020  1:20 AM)g2_ Wrote: Wow, that's actually cool.

It’s probably coincidental, but Lane is like Aiga’s power-thirsty younger self, while Hyuga is like Valt’s luck based, no strategy younger self that we saw in season 1.

(Oct. 07, 2020  1:26 AM)Admiral W Wrote:

(Oct. 07, 2020  1:22 AM)6Jupiter5 Wrote: It’s probably coincidental, but Lane is like Aiga’s power-thirsty younger self, while Hyuga is like Valt’s luck based, no strategy younger self that we saw in season 1.

In a way. Valt wasn't really luck based. He worked really hard to get as good as he did. He thought things out far more then Hyuga does. They're both balls of energy though and love expending it lol.

(Oct. 07, 2020  1:34 AM)6Jupiter5 Wrote:

(Oct. 07, 2020  1:26 AM)Admiral W Wrote: In a way. Valt wasn't really luck based. He worked really hard to get as good as he did. He thought things out far more then Hyuga does. They're both balls of energy though and love expending it lol.

In the first season Valt didn’t have any strategy other than attack. His last second burst against Zac was luck.