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+---- Thread: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! (/Thread-A-Burst-from-the-Past-Burst-Classic-is-now-Ranked)
A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - ~Mana~ - Jul. 05, 2019
Hey everyone!
As you may have heard; back in January, we announced the development of a Burst Classic format. This format was designed to give Single and Dual Layers a dedicated place to shine, and to also provide Bladers with a brand-new experience, away from the stamina-focused format of Standard.
For the most part, this format was very well received, and many Bladers immediately got stuck in with the development process, giving their comments and opinions on what worked, what didn't work, and what they would change to maintain the balance.
After 6 months of development, experimentation and data collection, I'm very pleased to announce that we've now completed our experimentation period, and our final Burst Classic rulebook is now available! Effective Monday July 8th, Burst Classic will become a fully-fledged ranked format, and all communities will be able to officially run this format in it's latest and greatest form!
What are you waiting for? Take a look at the rulebook!
![[Image: WBO-Burst-Classic-Format-Rulebook-Cover-3D-2.png]](https://worldbeyblade.org/images/WBO-Burst-Classic-Format-Rulebook-Cover-3D-2.png)
An Overview of the Final Restrictions List
A huge appeal of Burst Classic has been a return to a simplistic and more naturally balanced time. As such, we haven't felt the need to inherently ban parts from the pool that we're focusing on; the 2016/17 Dual Layer format was quite balanced in itself - save for a few Layers causing issues, which we made sure to hit from the get go. The addition of newer Drivers has also helped to keep the game feeling fresh and new to newbies and veterans alike, and has helped to enable some combination styles that weren't originally possible.
That said, some of the recent Burst-defying Dash Drivers have proven to be too much within this format and, as many of you will have seen in our planning, we were very hung up on how to approach these for a very long time. Thankfully, by running experimental events with all Dash Drivers permitted, we've been able to find a balance that we're happy with, and that we think the community will be happy with as well.
Without further ado, this is our final banlist:
LEGAL PARTS:
Energy Layers
✔ All Single Energy Layers
✔ Most Dual Energy Layers (see exceptions below)
Forge Discs
✔ Most Non-Numbered Forge Discs (see exceptions below)
Performance Tips/Drivers
✔ All Performance Tips from Single and Dual Energy Layer Beyblades
✔ Most God Performance Tips (see exceptions below)
✔ All Non-Plus Cho-Z Performance Tips
✔ All SlingShock Performance Tips
✔ All Gatinko Performance Tips
✔ Most Dash Drivers (see exceptions below)
BANNED PARTS:
Energy Layers
✘ Dark Deathscyther (TT Only)
✘ Jormuntor J2 (Hasbro only)
✘ Lost Longinus/Luinor L2
✘ Storm Pegasis
✘ All God, Evolution, Cho-Z, Turbo & Gatinko Layers
Forge Discs
✘ All Core Disks (e.g: 1, 4, 7, 10, Aero' etc)
✘ All Disks released as part of the Gatinko Layer System (Blitz, Hurricane, Sting etc).
✘ Ωuter
✘ Zenith
Performance Tips/Drivers
✘ Bearing (Hasbro only)
✘ Atomic
✘ Accel’, Zephyr’, Blow’, Destroy’
✘ Xtend+
This list has largely remained unchanged since it's last revision during the experimental period, though we've relaxed our restrictions on our "all Dash and Plus Drivers" ban to only affect Accel', Blow', Destroy', Xtend+ and Zephyr' now. We feel that these Drivers specifically had a significant effect on the Classic metagame and, in many scenarios, created a situation where certain combinations were nigh-impossible to Burst, and also had the stamina potency to outspin many of the dedicated Stamina options.
As usual, we will continue to keep an eye on our restrictions list over this format's lifespan, and make changes according to the needs of the format. But for now, we feel that this is the best state we can launch the format in.
Once again, thank you to everyone who ran experimental events and gave their input to help us gather the data we needed to make these decisions!
New Organizer Resource: One Page Burst Classic Format – Part Restrictions & Format-Specific Rules Overview
Because we understand that communicating all of the specific restrictions to tournament attendees can be challenging, we've put together a resource for Organizers to print and bring multiple copies of to their Burst Classic Format events: a one page overview of the part restrictions and format-specific rules.
Please click the button below to check it out!
Future Considerations
While we're launching Burst Classic, this doesn't mean that our work is over. As stated before, we'll continue to regulate the format with regular ruling and restriction list updates, similar to what our Burst Standard format receives.
Currently, we're keeping a close eye on parts like Zeta', which have proven to be very potent in some of the experimental events, but slightly lack the consistency to make it onto the restriction list.
We're also keeping an eye on the Attack/Defense/Stamina balance, and we're fully aware that Attack is in a stronger place than the other two when used properly, and that Defense might need a minor boost to counteract this. However, right now, we feel that Attack's stronger position is justified due to the additional skill required to control many potent combinations, and also to help it thrive a little bit more while it finds it's place in Standard again.
So what about Limited?
Soon™
In the past, I've touched on our plans to implement a Burst Limited format, and our progression on developing this format. I'd like to update that we're still discussing and planning this format, and it is very much still planned to enter the experimental phase towards the beginning of the new year.
Limited is planned to be a God/Evolution/Turbo-based Limited format, so we have a significantly larger part pool to consider when balancing and regulating this format, so we appreciate the patience while we develop this.
That said, our plan is currently to let Classic be the focus of attention alongside Standard to allow it to grow and gain it's own identity for the rest of the year. Implementing Limited too soon would harm the progress and adoption of Classic, and would undermine the efforts from the community in building the format.
Once again, on behalf of myself and the whole Organized Play team, thanks to everyone who took part in the development process of this format to help make this a reality! Now, head on out, host your own official Classic events! We look forward to seeing how Classic evolves over time!
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - Kei - Jul. 05, 2019
Going to be awesome to see this out in the wild finally for ranked events! Huge thanks to ~Mana~ and everyone who took the lead in developing this format initially and to everyone who has helped us experiment with it over the past several months.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - DeceasedCrab - Jul. 05, 2019
I'm going to suggest that Infinite and Infinite-L remain banned as they cannot be successfully used in a legal WBO stadium.
I have once again updated the parts listing at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yglZ84BcKpclKW_WlKbKh4P6sHKJYE4V_Nl7SDf5xXQ/edit?usp=sharing
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - ~Mana~ - Jul. 05, 2019
Don't worry, both Mugen Drivers are listed under "Additional Equipment Regulations" on both the Standard and Classic rulebooks, so we haven't forgotten about them
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - Siccle_Bladez - Jul. 05, 2019
This sounds really fun to play!
Just wondering why Ripfire isn't allowed, though.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - Maximum beys - Jul. 06, 2019
Go away for a while and come back to this, AWESOME!!
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - UltimateMaster - Jul. 07, 2019
(Jul. 05, 2019 3:50 PM)Siccle_Bladez Wrote: This sounds really fun to play!
Just wondering why Ripfire isn't allowed, though.
ripfire is banned in all formats, they aren’t really made to go up against TT beys and May break as well
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - bladekid - Jul. 07, 2019
(Jul. 05, 2019 3:50 PM)Siccle_Bladez Wrote: This sounds really fun to play!Because they are completely different standard beys, same goes for the RC beys.
Just wondering why Ripfire isn't allowed, though.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - #Fafnir - Jul. 08, 2019
I have a suggestion: sT (TT) becomes unbanned. sT doesn't have the best of teeth, but it still isn't that bad. I've tested sT G Et, and it wins around 45% of the time. Maybe Kei and Mana will consider this. Once again, it's just an idea, so please don't take it too seriously.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - bladekid - Jul. 08, 2019
(Jul. 08, 2019 3:58 AM)#Fafnir Wrote: I have a suggestion: sT (TT) becomes unbanned. sT doesn't have the best of teeth, but it still isn't that bad. I've tested sT G Et, and it wins around 45% of the time. Maybe Kei and Mana will consider this. Once again, it's just an idea, so please don't take it too seriously.Sadly, we may not see god layers in classic. We had them in at one point but decided to ban them to avoid any confusion.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - AirKingNeo - Jul. 15, 2019
I'm a little surprised that Destroy' is banned in classic given most of the testing period ignored it and focused more around A'/Z'/B'. There was barely any sightings of Destroy'. Your own thoughts on Destroy during testing on May 5th (post Days of Dash tournament in London, UK) were:
~Mana~ Wrote:Destroy' has arguably suffered from not being great on anything that isn't left-spinning due to there being better options. Classic doesn't change that; outside of use on Dragoon F/S, Destroy doesn't see that much use. If L2 was allowed in Classic then it'd be a different matter entirely, but Destroy doesn't feel like it can compete otherwise. I'm hard pressed for reasons not to allow it but, as with Zephyr', I think it needs some extensive testing before committing to that stance.
and Kei's opinion on Ds' the same day was:
Kei Wrote:Nobody used Destroy' at our event, but I see no reason to leave it banned.
There wasn't any data being shown for test matchups involving Ds' in the old Format Feedback/Discussion thread. What prompted banning Ds'? Is it being used just like Z'/A'/B'?
There was also a lot of hesitation on allowing Zeta'. What prompted allowing it?
This was a question that was lost in the old thread, but I think is worth mentioning: Is Atomic-S allowed?
Also, it's unrelated, but you mentioned a Burst Limited format being in the works. Is there anywhere to discuss that at the moment?
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - DeceasedCrab - Jul. 15, 2019
Atomic-S counts as Atomic, so it's not allowed.
I'm guessing the Burst Limited discussions are in the organizers-only forums for the moment, or being held over PMs.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - ks123 - Jul. 15, 2019
(Jul. 15, 2019 4:22 AM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: I'm guessing the Burst Limited discussions are in the organizers-only forums for the moment, or being held over PMs.
Burst Limited is discussed in secret Contributors and Committee sub-forum. I think this development is currently very early.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - Ash_Ketchum_007 - Jul. 15, 2019
(Jul. 15, 2019 4:22 AM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: Atomic-S counts as Atomic, so it's not allowed.
I'm guessing the Burst Limited discussions are in the organizers-only forums for the moment, or being held over PMs.
But, isn't atomic-s worse than atomic in terms of performance? And, I don't see it being mentioned in the ban list.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - DeceasedCrab - Jul. 15, 2019
Yeah I asked that already in the original Classic thread. It's in the Burst Classic rules, and also "it's worse" doesn't change "it counts as Atomic".
Banned Parts section includes Atomic
And then under
"Dash Drivers
All Dash Drivers (such as Xtreme’ or Hunter’) and their regular counterparts (such as Xtreme or Hunter) cannot both be included within your Deck during a Deck Format match at the same time. For example, if you have a combination with Xtreme’ in your Deck, you cannot also use Xtreme.
SlingShock Drivers
All SlingShock Drivers (such as Eternal-S, Jolt-S, Accel-S) and their regular counterparts (such as Eternal, Jolt, and Accel) cannot both be included within your Deck during a Deck Format match at the same time. For example, if you have a combination with Eternal-S in your Deck, you cannot also use Eternal."
Huh. You're right, it doesn't say they count as the same in all formats, just that both can't be in Deck Format.
Seriously ~Mana~ just add Atomic-S to the ban list in the rules. Unless you want people trying to rules lawyer their way to justifying having Atomic-S in their beys in Classic.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - bladekid - Jul. 15, 2019
(Jul. 15, 2019 12:26 PM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote:I personally wouldn't consider it worse TBH.(Jul. 15, 2019 4:22 AM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: Atomic-S counts as Atomic, so it's not allowed.
I'm guessing the Burst Limited discussions are in the organizers-only forums for the moment, or being held over PMs.
But, isn't atomic-s worse than atomic in terms of performance? And, I don't see it being mentioned in the ban list.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - ~Mana~ - Jul. 16, 2019
(Jul. 15, 2019 4:20 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: Yeah I asked that already in the original Classic thread. It's in the Burst Classic rules, and also "it's worse" doesn't change "it counts as Atomic".
Banned Parts section includes Atomic
And then under
"Dash Drivers
All Dash Drivers (such as Xtreme’ or Hunter’) and their regular counterparts (such as Xtreme or Hunter) cannot both be included within your Deck during a Deck Format match at the same time. For example, if you have a combination with Xtreme’ in your Deck, you cannot also use Xtreme.
SlingShock Drivers
All SlingShock Drivers (such as Eternal-S, Jolt-S, Accel-S) and their regular counterparts (such as Eternal, Jolt, and Accel) cannot both be included within your Deck during a Deck Format match at the same time. For example, if you have a combination with Eternal-S in your Deck, you cannot also use Eternal."
Huh. You're right, it doesn't say they count as the same in all formats, just that both can't be in Deck Format.
Seriously ~Mana~ just add Atomic-S to the ban list in the rules. Unless you want people trying to rules lawyer their way to justifying having Atomic-S in their beys in Classic.
I'll add a clarification in later today.
But to be clear to everyone; if the base version is banned, so is the Slingshock version, as we consider both versions to be the same part. In this case, as Atomic is banned, so is Atomic-S.
(Jul. 15, 2019 3:35 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: There wasn't any data being shown for test matchups involving Ds' in the old Format Feedback/Discussion thread. What prompted banning Ds'? Is it being used just like Z'/A'/B'?
There was also a lot of hesitation on allowing Zeta'. What prompted allowing it?
Destroy' was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to Accel', Blow' and Zephyr' being banned. While it wasn't particularly bothersome with those available, banning the others and leaving it suddenly in the spotlight and as a very potent alternative to what the other Drivers were doing (high-attack high-stamina high-resistance mobile stalling) made no sense, so we preemptively banned it before it could become an issue.
Zeta' just didn't have the support behind it for a ban, though I'll also admit that it's consistency also wavered in the June events as well. It's still crazy potent and, as I say in the news post above, we're still keeping an eye on it to see if it also needs a hit. We're not ignoring it, just want to keep an eye on it, haha.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - AirKingNeo - Jul. 16, 2019
(Jul. 16, 2019 8:13 AM)~Mana~ Wrote:(Jul. 15, 2019 3:35 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: There wasn't any data being shown for test matchups involving Ds' in the old Format Feedback/Discussion thread. What prompted banning Ds'? Is it being used just like Z'/A'/B'?
There was also a lot of hesitation on allowing Zeta'. What prompted allowing it?
Destroy' was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to Accel', Blow' and Zephyr' being banned. While it wasn't particularly bothersome with those available, banning the others and leaving it suddenly in the spotlight and as a very potent alternative to what the other Drivers were doing (high-attack high-stamina high-resistance mobile stalling) made no sense, so we preemptively banned it before it could become an issue.
Zeta' just didn't have the support behind it for a ban, though I'll also admit that it's consistency also wavered in the June events as well. It's still crazy potent and, as I say in the news post above, we're still keeping an eye on it to see if it also needs a hit. We're not ignoring it, just want to keep an eye on it, haha.
Maybe Destroy' can come back after some very, very extensive testing.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - ~Mana~ - Jul. 17, 2019
Perhaps! We're not ruling any changes to the format out at all so it's worth testing over time.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - Ash_Ketchum_007 - Jul. 25, 2019
(Jul. 16, 2019 8:13 AM)~Mana~ Wrote:(Jul. 15, 2019 4:20 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: Yeah I asked that already in the original Classic thread. It's in the Burst Classic rules, and also "it's worse" doesn't change "it counts as Atomic".
Banned Parts section includes Atomic
And then under
"Dash Drivers
All Dash Drivers (such as Xtreme’ or Hunter’) and their regular counterparts (such as Xtreme or Hunter) cannot both be included within your Deck during a Deck Format match at the same time. For example, if you have a combination with Xtreme’ in your Deck, you cannot also use Xtreme.
SlingShock Drivers
All SlingShock Drivers (such as Eternal-S, Jolt-S, Accel-S) and their regular counterparts (such as Eternal, Jolt, and Accel) cannot both be included within your Deck during a Deck Format match at the same time. For example, if you have a combination with Eternal-S in your Deck, you cannot also use Eternal."
Huh. You're right, it doesn't say they count as the same in all formats, just that both can't be in Deck Format.
Seriously ~Mana~ just add Atomic-S to the ban list in the rules. Unless you want people trying to rules lawyer their way to justifying having Atomic-S in their beys in Classic.
I'll add a clarification in later today.
But to be clear to everyone; if the base version is banned, so is the Slingshock version, as we consider both versions to be the same part. In this case, as Atomic is banned, so is Atomic-S.
(Jul. 15, 2019 3:35 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: There wasn't any data being shown for test matchups involving Ds' in the old Format Feedback/Discussion thread. What prompted banning Ds'? Is it being used just like Z'/A'/B'?
There was also a lot of hesitation on allowing Zeta'. What prompted allowing it?
Destroy' was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to Accel', Blow' and Zephyr' being banned. While it wasn't particularly bothersome with those available, banning the others and leaving it suddenly in the spotlight and as a very potent alternative to what the other Drivers were doing (high-attack high-stamina high-resistance mobile stalling) made no sense, so we preemptively banned it before it could become an issue.
Zeta' just didn't have the support behind it for a ban, though I'll also admit that it's consistency also wavered in the June events as well. It's still crazy potent and, as I say in the news post above, we're still keeping an eye on it to see if it also needs a hit. We're not ignoring it, just want to keep an eye on it, haha.
Suppose there was an atomic+ (or called roller ball or something) from TT , and it was worse than atomic, would you still ban it? I mean, why does a name matter?
Also, is atomic-s worse than atomic (in same spin performance/ destabilization)?
edit: My point is, why are normal and slingschock drivers considered the same when banning them?
edit 2: Is WBO against specific bans? This may sound vague, but what I mean is, is WBO against banning hasbro bearing in left spin combos alone or something like that?
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - AirKingNeo - Jul. 26, 2019
Tt seems weird that banning Atomic also means banning Atomic-S. Banning Destroy' doesn't mean banning Destroy because Ds' is an improvement to Ds. Meanwhile, Atomic-S is considered a downgrade from Atomic, while also being a completely different driver than Atomic.
Atomic-S should be tested to see if it would be fair.
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - ~Mana~ - Jul. 26, 2019
Are you just assuming that it's a "downgrade"? I feel like I've heard differently...
kjrules17 LazerBeamz Any comment on that?
RE: A Burst from the Past - Burst Classic is now Ranked! - kjrules17 - Jul. 26, 2019
(Jul. 26, 2019 12:50 AM)~Mana~ Wrote: Are you just assuming that it's a "downgrade"? I feel like I've heard differently...Haven't really done much testing lately. The only things I've observed in regards to Atomic-S are that it beats Yard-S in Same Spin when both are in Battle Ring Mode and SlingShock Mode will most likely Self-KO just like many other SlingShock Modes. But I'll try to do some more tests with it soon™️.
kjrules17 LazerBeamz Any comment on that?