• MF-H: For weight, which makes the combo more difficult to KO.
  
• Perseus (Stamina): The most Defensive of the Persei, and I also think the heaviest? Either way it blocks those topside contact points on Gravity and lowers the recoil it takes.
  
• Gravity: The main part of the combo, because the Dual Spin means you can Weak Launch vs all Attack Types. It's also got that semi-bowl-like shape that Bakushin has, which is good at deflecting hits. I used the heavier variant of Mold 1 Gravity, so these tests don't apply to the smoother but lighter Mold 2 Gravity which may or may not be better.
  
• 85:The shortest Spin Track available. Makes the combo as short as possible to maximize the amount of low-recoil hits Perseus takes, and having a lower Center of Gravity (COG) also gives it slightly better Precession. I guess you could go up to 90 or 100 if scraping is an issue, but I didn't find it to be one.
  
• RB: While I'm normally not a huge proponent of RB for Defense combos, it's probably the best option for this combo as it has the widest surface area compared to other Defense Tips (aside from CS, but I found that RB's grip is a little more helpful for a higher Recoil Wheel like Gravity). I usually complain about RB skipping the Tornado Ridge when it gets hit hard enough because it's a ball, but as this combo is mainly Weak Launched there usually isn't enough force from hits to knock it back that far in the first place.
  

• Vs. Attack: Switch to the opposite Spin Direction as them and Weak Launch. If by some chance you are getting outspun by them, switch to same Spin and launch moderately. If you happen upon a Gravity Attacker, a mindgame ensues.
  
• Vs. Defense: Depends, how tall is it? Against opposing LTDC Opposite Spin Weak Launch is worth a shot, but there's a chance you'll get outspun by other CS/RB combos. Against 145-height stuff Opposite Spin Weak Launch and you should OS them. Against TH220/230 you're kinda screwed unless you can pull off a KO in Same Spin, which isn't very likely since you're on 85 and also using the Stamina Perseus
  
• Vs. Stamina: Go Same Spin so they can't Weak Launch, and go for the KO.
  
• Vs. Staller: Opposite Spin, and moderate Launch. If you don't secret sauce them you should be able to get the OS over MF (and HF/S), but WF/XF/CF/GCF/XF are going to give you problems if you don't KO them. For GF I would probably go Same Spin and OS them normally.
  

(Oct. 02, 2016  8:23 PM)Chaitanya Breed Wrote: Awesome combo beyfriend. I tried it and it worked very well for me as attack too. also I wasnt expecting it from gravity. But it really can take hits just like you told beyhah.

Is there is anything i can test it against? I have some free time (so once i get all my launchers from friend then I can test it)

(Nov. 29, 2016  7:44 PM)Duwg Wrote: Bakushin 90RSF = pure defense and doesn't have any smash to stance a chance vs any good stamina combo, or tornado stall with HF, MF, F, attack type

so being almost a guarantee lost vs Stamina and Attack type it I reckon its a not a top tier combo at all.

(Nov. 29, 2016  8:27 PM)Cake Wrote:

(Nov. 29, 2016  7:44 PM)Duwg Wrote: Bakushin 90RSF = pure defense and doesn't have any smash to stance a chance vs any good stamina combo, or tornado stall with HF, MF, F, attack type

so being almost a guarantee lost vs Stamina and Attack type it I reckon its a not a top tier combo at all.

But most Attack types use rubber tips like RF which have much less Stamina than the non-rubber flat tips. That's OK normally because the extra Attack power and recoil control is worth it, but against Defense types using RB/RSF, they can't KO the defender early on and end up losing.

Also, Using Bakushin with a more aggressive CW like Scorpio or Libra gives it much more Attack power, so it can easily KO some Stamina types and Attackers like you described, because without a rubber tip, Attack types are very vulnerable to other Attack types and even their own recoil.

If everyone in your area uses mostly Stamina types and MF/HF/F based Attack, then most rubber-tipped Defense won't work out so well for you. But as far as I know, most regional metas use RF, LRF, or R2F for Attack types, and so rubber-tipped Defense is necessary to be effective. The top-tier list isn't guaranteed to work 100% of the time in all regions, but it's a very good source for strong combos that work well in most places.

(Nov. 29, 2016  8:27 PM)Cake Wrote: Also, Using Bakushin with a more aggressive CW like Scorpio or Libra gives it much more Attack power, so it can easily KO some Stamina types and Attackers like you described, because without a rubber tip, Attack types are very vulnerable to other Attack types and even their own recoil.

Quote:Well even with Leone Bakushin Leone 90RSF can most of stamina from 120 - 160. Thats the reason people use it over Eath 90RSF as not just it have more defence it can KO stamina types too

(Nov. 29, 2016  7:44 PM)Duwg Wrote: Bakushin 90RSF = pure defense and doesn't have any smash to stand a chance vs any good stamina combo, or tornado stall with HF, MF, F, attack type

so being almost a guarantee lost vs Stamina and Attack type I reckon its a not a top tier combo at all.

(Nov. 30, 2016  5:50 AM)Duwg Wrote:

(Nov. 29, 2016  8:27 PM)Cake Wrote: Also, Using Bakushin with a more aggressive CW like Scorpio or Libra gives it much more Attack power, so it can easily KO some Stamina types and Attackers like you described, because without a rubber tip, Attack types are very vulnerable to other Attack types and even their own recoil.

I really think this is pure fantasy... Bakushin with RSF is not going to KO stamina type like Earth, Burn or Flame wheel with WD tips, it would really have to be a fluke with a bad launch from the other player.

Quote:Well even with Leone Bakushin Leone 90RSF can most of stamina from 120 - 160. Thats the reason people use it over Eath 90RSF as not just it have more defence it can KO stamina types too

I dont know about this, in my experience. Earth will always have more stamina than Bakushin.

(Dec. 01, 2016  9:30 AM)Duwg Wrote: ok, I played around with the combo for a couple of hours, I will accept that Bakushin did perform better than I expected.

while KO stamina types is possible, trying to score 3 points to win a match with it is very hard, usually it would loose 3-0 or 3-1

Note that Habsro's RSF is way better than Takara tomy's. Hasbro's seems grippier and provided much faster movement which improved the KO rate a lot vs stamina.

But for this type of RSF Combo, I would use Vulcan over Baskushin as you can easily KO any combo while still getting the same amount of stamina, the trade off is that recoil is higher vs attack type you get something like 50% win rate instead off 100% (with Bakushin) vs rubber attack type. I rather accept those odds than a 5-10% win rate vs Earth/Burn wheel

I checked out the Bakushin test page and I don't agree with your result. Earth would always beat Bakushin's stamina and the difference should be a lot greater, I don't think the sample size is big enough or perhaps a bit biased.

(Dec. 01, 2016  2:10 PM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: Well it's not meant to be attack type. Bakushin is a defence type but it can KO stamina with proper launch. While Vulcan is a pure attacker so its not fair comparison imo. I know both combo use RSF but both are completely different type of combos. Anyways I think we are going off-topic

(Dec. 01, 2016  10:38 PM)Duwg Wrote:

(Dec. 01, 2016  2:10 PM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: Well it's not meant to be attack type. Bakushin is a defence type but it can KO stamina with proper launch. While Vulcan is a pure attacker so its not fair comparison imo. I know both combo use RSF but both are completely different type of combos. Anyways I think we are going off-topic

It can KO, but it won't win overall the match, which what matters.

Vulcan is not a pure attacker like spiral, cosmic etc. There is a chance to hit the smooth side of the bey, which greatly reducing the chance of self or double KO straight after the initial launch.

As a 2 sided bey Vulcan also have greater stamina than all other 3 sided bey, can spin just as long as Earth/Burn.

Comparing it with Bakushin another 2 sided bey I think is valid, vulcan will always out perform Bakushin with the RSF combo.

(Dec. 01, 2016  10:38 PM)Duwg Wrote:

(Dec. 01, 2016  2:10 PM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: Well it's not meant to be attack type. Bakushin is a defence type but it can KO stamina with proper launch. While Vulcan is a pure attacker so its not fair comparison imo. I know both combo use RSF but both are completely different type of combos. Anyways I think we are going off-topic

It can KO, but it won't win overall the match, which what matters.

Vulcan is not a pure attacker like spiral, cosmic etc. There is a chance to hit the smooth side of the bey, which greatly reducing the chance of self or double KO straight after the initial launch.

As a 2 sided bey Vulcan also have greater stamina than all other 3 sided bey, can spin just as long as Earth/Burn.

Comparing it with Bakushin another 2 sided bey I think is valid, vulcan will always out perform Bakushin with the RSF combo.

(Dec. 02, 2016  12:24 AM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: No offence but I doubt anyone really cares about stamina of Defence Type or beys with rubber tip (unless its significantly more or less than avaerage).

(Dec. 02, 2016  12:24 AM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: Lol I won 3 matches using Bakushin 85RSF against stamina types like Earth BD, Earth W145WD, Burn BD at this event https://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Mumbai-India-18-9-2016-Battle-Bladers-The-New-Era-Begans

Quote:Well I think RSF combo is wrong term (atleast in this case). As I think RSF is a part that works differantly depending on what setup it's used in.

Quote:No offence but I doubt anyone really cares about stamina of Defence Type or beys with rubber tip (unless its significantly more or less than avaerage).

Quote:Edit:- BTW which clear wheel you using on Vulcan and Bakushin?

(Dec. 02, 2016  5:44 AM)Thunder Dome Wrote: Duwg Bearing Drive definitely isn't as easy to KO as some of the other stamina set ups. [url=https://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Bearing-Drive-It-Isn-t-as-Flimsy-as-You-Think-it-is]Here is a whole thread with testings on Bearing Drive compared to other stamina set ups against semi-aggressive combinations.

Quote:Also it's probably not the brightest thing to just disregard tournament results and say it means nothing to you,

Quote:considering the only evidence to back your argument up is testing that you have not posted a video/results for.

(Dec. 02, 2016  11:14 PM)Duwg Wrote:

(Dec. 02, 2016  5:44 AM)Thunder Dome Wrote: Duwg Bearing Drive definitely isn't as easy to KO as some of the other stamina set ups. Here is a whole thread with testings on Bearing Drive compared to other stamina set ups against semi-aggressive combinations

I read the entire BD thread and it's an incomplete and inconclusive test, with others in the thread challenging the result as they should. It also used a CS tip for test which can be completely random depending on the tip condition and launch. It would have been extremely difficult to emulate the same condition for each test as even the slightest angle change and trigger the rubber grip and produce high movement speed and vice versa.

I did some test myself using Spiral Unicorno 90RSF tip instead but my result is also inclusive after doing 40 rounds for each test as it is too close to call, but my trend is not in BD favor.


Earth Eagle BD vs Spiral Unicorno 90RSF
Earth: 10 wins all OS
Spiral: 30 wins all KO
Earth BD 25% win rate


Earth Eagle W145WD vs Spiral Unicorno 90RSF
Earth: 12 wins all OS
Spiral: 28 wins all KO
Earth W145WD 30% win rate

I won't be suprised if another 40 rounds test produce completely different result in BD favor. More testing is required vs a variety of beyblades and a lot more rounds for each maybe at least a 100 round but who has time for that.

Beyblades are just too random sometime, you do need to based a some of your judgement on logic and some of tests.

BD should provide weaker defense since it is 165 height (its not 170 as I previously though) which makes it more vunerable to KO due increase chance of upper smash from lower beyblade.

Quote:

Quote:considering the only evidence to back your argument up is testing that you have not posted a video/results for.

The burden of proof lies with the OP, you and others that believe the combo is Top tier, I haven't seen any video proofing that it is solid either, an uncut footage of 10 matches or more (3 points to win a match) would be good.

(Dec. 02, 2016  11:14 PM)Duwg Wrote:

Quote:considering the only evidence to back your argument up is testing that you have not posted a video/results for.

The burden of proof lies with the OP, you and others that believe the combo is Top tier, I haven't seen any video proofing that it is solid either, an uncut footage of 10 matches or more (3 points to win a match) would be good.

(Dec. 02, 2016  5:44 AM)Thunder Dome Wrote: To actually contribute to the discussion a bit here about Gravity I think the combination seems really solid Wombat. Combinations like this that can serve two purposes is really powerful at a tournament, especially when you can choose spin directions. Mind if I ask the condition of your rubber ball?

Quote:if you are saying BD is 170 due to this article. I'm pretty sure they meant "170 without tip" which is equal to 145WD. BTW that article is also written by WBO members Tongue_out

Quote:Um, what? As far as I'm aware "The burden of proof lies with the OP" is not a rule on the WBO. There have been cases in the past where test results have been faked, but it's never come to the point where videos were mandatory. Once I'm on Winter Break I could post some videos if you're still interested.

As much as I hate to sound like an elitist, if you don't think the combo Top tier, then that's fine, it's not like anyone is forcing you to use it. I think I've provided enough justification in the OP for how and why I got the results I did, and others seem to be replicating these results in tournaments as well.