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Vs. BD145:

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Gryph Balro 145RF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 10/10 (8 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 10/10 (1 KO, 9 OS)
145 height win rate: 50%

Gryph Balro GB145RF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 10/10 (8 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 10/10 (1 KO, 9 OS)
GB145 win rate: 50%

Gryph Balro 105RF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 14/20 (12 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 6/20 (All OS)
105 height win rate: 70%

There you have it. 105 came out with a 20% lead in KOs. That's pretty huge. While I'm not saying that 145 height attackers are useless against BD145 defense combos, I do think lower-track combinations are more effective to an extent. I also found it odd that 145 and GB145 ended up with literally the exact same results

Vs. E230:

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Gryph Balro 145RF vs. Reviser Reviser E230RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 20/20 (8 KO, 12 OS)
Reviser: wins, 0/20
145 height win rate: 100%


Gryph Balro GB145RF vs. Reviser Reviser E230RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 19/20 (8 KO, 11 OS)
Reviser: wins, 0/20
GB145 win rate: 95%

Gryph Balro 105RF vs. Reviser Reviser E230RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 19/20 (4 KO, 15 OS)
Reviser: wins, 1/20 (1 OS)
105 height win rate: 95%

The reason all 3 beys were able to OS so well is probably because I used RF. Other than that, I don't know why.

Some things I'd like to point out...

1) The reason these beys hit such unusually high KO rates against E230 is due to balro, which is basically an E230 killer. Wyvang will only hit a 15% win rate against E230 at a 145 height, and only 5% win rate against it on 105.

3) As you can see, a 145 height bey leads in KOs by 20% against E230 in comparison to a shorter height.

Vs. 230:

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Gryph Balro GB145RF vs. Duo Aquario 230CS
Duo launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 12/20 (9 KO, 3 OS)
Aquario: wins, 8/20 (All OS)
GB145 win rate: 60%

Gryph Balro 105RF vs. Duo Aquario 230CS
Duo launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 13/20 (12 KO, 1 OS)
Aquario: wins, 7/20 (All OS)
105 win rate: 65%

As you can see, 105 took a 15% lead in KOs this time. As long as it could hit duo, it hit harder than GB145. Only about 1/4 of these KOs were from hitting underneath. The other times it just hit really low, but nonetheless it still hit the side of the metal wheel, rather than underneath.

Gryph Balro GB145RF vs. Reviser Reviser 230CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 12/20 (6 KO, 6 OS)
Reviser: wins, 8/20 (All OS)
GB145 win rate: 60%


Gryph Balro 105RF vs. Reviser Reviser 230CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 14/20 (12 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 8/20 (All OS)
105 win rate: 70%

As you can see, 105 outdid GB145 in these tests. Reviser is a considerably think wheel, so it did protrude down on the track. Probably 1/2 of these KOs were made with a hit underneath. Reviser and most chrome wheels have gaps all over the top and bottom, which are easy to grab onto. In one instance, Balro actually hit underneath and lifted Reviser over a wall in the BB-10.

After these tests, I think we can conclude that synchrome LTAC's don't have much of a problem with 230... just E/SP230

(Jul. 12, 2013  2:16 AM)Meow! Wrote: Well, ever so long ago, BD145 was released and all the cool LTAC at the time were pwned. Vulcan, Gravity, and Lighting combos on anything lower than CH120 were walled. This is partly because they are all very thin compared to some of the attackers today. (Except maybe Gravity, but it's "conic" shape made the lower part of the metal wheel hit more)

Then people just kinda forgot about LTACs cause Basalt was so small in comparison to BD145, that you needed something tall to make metal contact.

Now, Synchroms are for the most part larger than or equal to BD145, and all of the good Attackers are thick/have contact points towards the upper part of the metal wheel, so yes LTACs now have something on BD145, but are limited more because of E230.

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Thank you! That's what I meant... The modern attackers can make solid hits on BD145 that some of the older attackers couldn't. And they have more than "something" on BD145... They have a 20% lead. That's a lot.

Personally, I have never seen E230 defense used before... EVER. I have seen one SP230 defense combo, but I've seen PLENTY of BD145 customizations used. It's really a matter of preferance, or whether you want an advantage against E230 or BD145. Most other combos used in the current metagame are 165- anyway, at least where I am, so an LTAC would have the advantage against a wider range of combos than a 145 height. Just IMO.

I just wanted to raise the question of why LTAC's are rejected as useless just because they have a disadvantage against what seems like the less popular form of defense in the current metagame.

But, remember, though I am trying to be neutral, I obviously have a preferance for shorter-track combos, so I would get a second opinion from someone who is not biased.

(Jul. 12, 2013  2:54 AM)Kyler_the best Wrote: For another defense custom, do you think you can test vs. cs or rsf? Is the metagame defense customs are they really leaniant to lower tracks? Like bd145. The wins from the lower track seemed like it was mainly OS, so I think the tests would show better comparison when compared with a more stamina-oriented defense type.

(Jul. 12, 2013  4:50 AM)Meow! Wrote: I was hesitant to mention it because I always thought there was controversy over 230 vs left spin. I was always able to KO Basalt 230CS with a low L Drago or Perseus in left spin.

(Jul. 12, 2013  4:50 AM)Meow! Wrote: I was hesitant to mention it because I always thought there was controversy over 230 vs left spin. I was always able to KO Basalt 230CS with a low L Drago or Perseus in left spin.

Spoiler (Click to View)

If you consider 120 to be an LTAC, then you could really use any attack setup on 120. On 105-, You should really only use combos with Gryph on the bottom. Then you can just use any competetive chrome wheel for the top.

If LTAC's were to develope into a category of attack types today, then there wouldn't be a very wide range of them, since the design would be pretty restrictive due to modern BD145/E230 defenders. Here are the LTAC's that I find effective:

(MSF-H) Gryph Balro/Begaridos/Pegasis/Ifraid Bahamdia 85RF/R2F

Pegasis Begaridos and Bahamdia are all pretty wide, and as so, are pretty consistent hitters on 85.
Balro is not quite as consistent, but it probably has the highest smash of the bunch (except for maybe Begaridos).

(MSF-H) Gryph Balro/Begaridos/(Wyvang)/Pegasis/Ifraid Bahamdia 90RF/R2F

I put Wyvang in parentheses here, because it will work (and be very, very, very effective) on 90, but only if the performance tip is in a condition where it still retains its height. If the bottom is new, then it will be tall enough to work fine. If the bottom is very worn, it may not be tall enough.
Wyvang is safer yo use on 100 or 105.

(MSF-H) Gryph Balro/Begaridos/Wyvang/Pegasis/Ifraid Bahamdia 100/105RF/R2F

105 attackers are very consistent, and though they have very, very slightly less smash than 85 or 90, they are probably the safest to use.

Balro/Gryph Balro/ Wyvang/Gryph Wyvang/Begaridos Begaridos CH120RF/R2F

CH120 is awesome. Though it may not quite be and LTAC, a CH120 attacker can travel between a short and tall height, so as to utilize the advantages of both.

(Jul. 12, 2013  5:42 PM)Izhkoort Wrote: Thanks for that! Gryph is because it can achieve more rotation speed? or because of the shape? (or both?)

(Jul. 24, 2013  11:47 PM)Striker Phantom Wrote: I think another reason why LTAC(acryonm for low attack type combos) are no more are because in the Zero G stadium, with all the swaying and the moving around, any bey with 120,105 and lower be trashed because the bey will scrape around until it's lost all of it's stamina.

(Jul. 28, 2013  2:56 AM)Izhkoort Wrote: did someone found an LTAC for Dragooon that's effective for smash attack? (I'm not talking about attack-spin equalizer hybrid)

(Jul. 24, 2013  11:47 PM)Striker Phantom Wrote: I think another reason why LTAC(acryonm for low attack type combos) are no more are because in the Zero G stadium, with all the swaying and the moving around, any bey with 120,105 and lower be trashed because the bey will scrape around until it's lost all of it's stamina.