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+--- Thread: Concerns for Standard after the October releases (/Thread-Concerns-for-Standard-after-the-October-releases)
Concerns for Standard after the October releases - CrisisCrusher07 - Sep. 28, 2021
So as we all know in the new B-190 and B-191 sets that are set to come out early October we are getting some upgrades to a few meta relevant parts. Of course here I am talking about Metal Drift and Bearing Dash. These upgraded versions of Drift and Bearing will without a doubt see a lot of play in the Standard format competitive scene.
So with all of that being said let me explain what my concern actually is. It isn’t that these parts have gotten upgrades. I actually don’t mind if as the game evolves so do the older parts. But what I am having an issue with is how much this can affect the deck format portion of Standard. Now with the rules allowing people to use all of the variations of one part within a deck this will allow players to use essentially 2 copies of one of the 2 most powerful parts currently used in Today’s meta.
We all know by now that Drift is almost if not completely unrivaled in opposite spin match ups. Now imagine being able to have a deck where you can put one drift combo in right spin and the other in left. Now no matter what you have a combo for each spin direction to out spin any combo of the other spin direction. Unless of course they too use a drift combo that is the opposite spin of your drift combo. But we all know how that tends to go. DRAW CITY!! Now you get to the issue of there being 8 long match gaps of draws between points being scored. Meaning it can go on for anywhere from 15 minutes and up a match! Plus every judge will have to resort to using slow motion camera footage for each battle in order to find a winner and that can be a bad headache for the judge. Not to mention how disheartening it can be when without a camera you as the player think from what you saw, you squeezed out that little bit of a spin and should get the point only for the camera to say something different. It’s really upsetting, especially for some little kids that just wanna enjoy the game.
Then you have Bearing and Bearing Dash. Right now Bearing is one of the best same spin stamina drivers as well as having super good opposite spin LAD. Well right now if someone was to use both a right and left spin combo with bearing and bearing dash in their deck, if they get that crucial first point they could control the rest of the match with same spin match ups in deck format. That too will be a very upsetting experience for most people playing. Granted I have less of a problem with bearing than I do with drift. But I still think it’s an issue to look at.
I would like to say that I do not think any of these drivers should be banned. But I would like to think that maybe the rule of being allowed to use different variations of a driver in the same deck should be rethought and maybe removed. Maybe just allow players to have only one version a part in a deck. Like to where I can’t run both Destroy and Destroy dash in a deck, or even Destroy, Destroy Dash, and Metal Destroy. I don’t know if I would count things like yard and yard metal. Maybe have it only effect the different springs or plates of the driver? Either way I just see this becoming an issue after October. Though I guess I could be wrong?
Anyway please let me know what you all think about this as I am genuinely curious at to what the community as a whole feels about this.
(If there was already a thread about this I am sorry I didn’t see it anywhere.)
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - DeceasedCrab - Sep. 28, 2021
I am the Mayor of Draw City and I would like to be removed from office in a recall election.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - TheRogueBlader - Sep. 28, 2021
I agree that 2 of the same parts shouldn’t be allowed in a deck, but this should also be for limited. In classic we should just ban dragoon so that we don’t see dragon polish zn’+z beating up everything. But in limited this could also have an impact, so just don’t allow w of the same parts in a deck in general.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - DeltaZakuro - Sep. 28, 2021
(Sep. 28, 2021 8:50 PM)TheRogueBlader Wrote: I agree that 2 of the same parts shouldn’t be allowed in a deck, but this should also be for limited. In classic we should just ban dragoon so that we don’t see dragon polish zn’+z beating up everything. But in limited this could also have an impact, so just don’t allow w of the same parts in a deck in general.
Bearing' and Bearing are counted as two entirely different drivers, same case with Metal Drift and Regular Drift so i don't think that would count.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - TheRogueBlader - Sep. 28, 2021
(Sep. 28, 2021 10:09 PM)DeltaZakuro Wrote:That’s what I’m saying. Read the first post first. Ok now that you’ve read it 2 drivers even if it’s like high survive, Metal survive, and survive’ or something those shouldn’t be allowed. Obviously survive isn’t good, bad example, but metal drift on the Bahamut core with normal drift on say the belial core mixed with a 3rd combo is OP. Literally. Same thing with bearing’ and bearing. So basically this thread is proposing a rule where we can’t use 2 of the same parts in a deck, and I personally am 100% on board with this idea.(Sep. 28, 2021 8:50 PM)TheRogueBlader Wrote: I agree that 2 of the same parts shouldn’t be allowed in a deck, but this should also be for limited. In classic we should just ban dragoon so that we don’t see dragon polish zn’+z beating up everything. But in limited this could also have an impact, so just don’t allow w of the same parts in a deck in general.
Bearing' and Bearing are counted as two entirely different drivers, same case with Metal Drift and Regular Drift so i don't think that would count.
Even the votes are 75% to 25% in favor of using this rule
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - Lean's_Hedgehog - Sep. 29, 2021
I think that repeats shouldn't be limited at all.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - Kaizoku Burst - Sep. 29, 2021
Could an argument be made for an exception regarding Dr/MDr and Br/Br' in particular?
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - TheRogueBlader - Sep. 29, 2021
(Sep. 29, 2021 3:08 AM)Kaizoku Burst Wrote: Could an argument be made for an exception regarding Dr/MDr and Br/Br' in particular?
Probably, and I agree, but I’m guessing a lot of people won’t agree with it.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - CrisisCrusher07 - Sep. 29, 2021
(Sep. 29, 2021 3:08 AM)Kaizoku Burst Wrote: Could an argument be made for an exception regarding Dr/MDr and Br/Br' in particular?
It potentially could. However I feel like doing that means any future design of drivers would need to have the same thing happen like say they make a xtend’ or metal xtend. The. You would probably have to add that to the list as well. Then you run into the problem of the rule book getting filled with a lot more extra stuff when generalizing it all into 1 line of text would be easier. Plus then even if they came out with an xtend’ or metal xtend no one would be able to even question if the driver should be limited to just 1 version of it.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - Beybladedb - Sep. 29, 2021
I don't agree people would get mad after they buy it because it didn't get to use in tourneys and the same thing happens every season I remember a thread to ban rage to ban 1s wheel even maybe ban in classic, but doubtful it will be banned in limited,k standard ban would just be bad
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - CrisisCrusher07 - Sep. 29, 2021
(Sep. 29, 2021 5:01 AM)Beybladedb Wrote: I don't agree people would get mad after they buy it because it didn't get to use in tourneys and the same thing happens every season I remember a thread to ban rage to ban 1s wheel even maybe ban in classic, but doubtful it will be banned in limited,k standard ban would just be bad
This isn’t suggesting that the new parts get banned or anything. If you buy the sets you can still use the parts. This is suggesting that you don’t allow bladers to use 2 of essentially the same part in their deck. Like using bearing and bearing dash on 2 different combos but in the same deck. This is just limiting them to having to choose weather they want to use bearing or bearing dash.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - Beybladedb - Sep. 29, 2021
(Sep. 29, 2021 2:16 PM)CrisisCrusher07 Wrote:(Sep. 29, 2021 5:01 AM)Beybladedb Wrote: I don't agree people would get mad after they buy it because it didn't get to use in tourneys and the same thing happens every season I remember a thread to ban rage to ban 1s wheel even maybe ban in classic, but doubtful it will be banned in limited,k standard ban would just be bad
This isn’t suggesting that the new parts get banned or anything. If you buy the sets you can still use the parts. This is suggesting that you don’t allow bladers to use 2 of essentially the same part in their deck. Like using bearing and bearing dash on 2 different combos but in the same deck. This is just limiting them to having to choose weather they want to use bearing or bearing dash.
ooh okay but still I think it best if they are banned in classic due to tighter spring and maybe limited because of too many equalizing stamina and in standard I think part-specific rulings are not any good unless this rule falls under all tips like no metal extreme if you are also using extreme' in the deck then I agree with the rule
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - CrisisCrusher07 - Sep. 29, 2021
(Sep. 29, 2021 2:22 PM)Beybladedb Wrote:(Sep. 29, 2021 2:16 PM)CrisisCrusher07 Wrote: This isn’t suggesting that the new parts get banned or anything. If you buy the sets you can still use the parts. This is suggesting that you don’t allow bladers to use 2 of essentially the same part in their deck. Like using bearing and bearing dash on 2 different combos but in the same deck. This is just limiting them to having to choose weather they want to use bearing or bearing dash.
ooh okay but still I think it best if they are banned in classic due to tighter spring and maybe limited because of too many equalizing stamina and in standard I think part-specific rulings are not any good unless this rule falls under all tips like no metal extreme if you are also using extreme' in the deck then I agree with the rule
Yes. I’m talking about a generalization rule saying that you can only use 1 version of a driver on a deck. This isn’t just for bearing and drift. This rule would be for all drivers. Meaning you couldn’t have a deck that consists of Destroy, Destroy’, and Metal Destroy.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - Beybladedb - Sep. 29, 2021
(Sep. 29, 2021 2:30 PM)CrisisCrusher07 Wrote:This rule should only be in limited and classic not rule changes for standard(Sep. 29, 2021 2:22 PM)Beybladedb Wrote: ooh okay but still I think it best if they are banned in classic due to tighter spring and maybe limited because of too many equalizing stamina and in standard I think part-specific rulings are not any good unless this rule falls under all tips like no metal extreme if you are also using extreme' in the deck then I agree with the rule
Yes. I’m talking about a generalization rule saying that you can only use 1 version of a driver on a deck. This isn’t just for bearing and drift. This rule would be for all drivers. Meaning you couldn’t have a deck that consists of Destroy, Destroy’, and Metal Destroy.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - Hollowmind13 - Sep. 29, 2021
I guess that at least some "Yes" votes are either people that never went to the Draw city or people that never went to tournaments (aka lack of knowledge (about tournaments) and misunderstanding)
.
Btw, I totally agree. It should be banned (having 2 variations of the same driver on the same deck), imagine having Drift/Bearing combos for both spin.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - The Blacknight - Sep. 29, 2021
I don’t think this is a problem, you underestimate how poor we all are. Couldn’t someone have used zone and zone dash with the chip, or xtend and xtend dash? Didn’t even have to buy the whole set, just the bey/driver. But most of us have no money, and for those who do, a half decent attack combo can usually take em out. Tbh its good, it’s rare to have an attack combo, and I havent seen a defense combo. Ever. With more awareness. We might get more counters, and you might have to actually choose your beys instead of just control c control ving lad parts.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - CrisisCrusher07 - Sep. 29, 2021
(Sep. 29, 2021 3:10 PM)The Blacknight Wrote: I don’t think this is a problem, you underestimate how poor we all are. Couldn’t someone have used zone and zone dash with the chip, or xtend and xtend dash? Didn’t even have to buy the whole set, just the bey/driver. But most of us have no money, and for those who do, a half decent attack combo can usually take em out. Tbh its good, it’s rare to have an attack combo, and I havent seen a defense combo. Ever. With more awareness. We might get more counters, and you might have to actually choose your beys instead of just control c control ving lad parts.
Xtend dash doesn’t exist. Also you can not use the Z chip with both zone and zone dash in a deck because you can not use repeating parts and the Z chip is considered a part. And just because the majority of people can’t afford it doesn’t mean there are not those that can. And those that can will easily take advantage of that and will be able to run decks with double drift or double bearing combos. Right now those 2 drivers are in just about every winning combination list of tournaments since dynamite battle came out.
(Sep. 29, 2021 2:38 PM)Beybladedb Wrote:(Sep. 29, 2021 2:30 PM)CrisisCrusher07 Wrote: Yes. I’m talking about a generalization rule saying that you can only use 1 version of a driver on a deck. This isn’t just for bearing and drift. This rule would be for all drivers. Meaning you couldn’t have a deck that consists of Destroy, Destroy’, and Metal Destroy.This rule should only be in limited and classic not rule changes for standard
Why do you think standard would be fine with 2 of essentially the same driver in a deck?
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - BuilderROB - Sep. 29, 2021
(Sep. 29, 2021 3:10 PM)The Blacknight Wrote: I don’t think this is a problem, you underestimate how poor we all are. Couldn’t someone have used zone and zone dash with the chip, or xtend and xtend dash? Didn’t even have to buy the whole set, just the bey/driver. But most of us have no money, and for those who do, a half decent attack combo can usually take em out. Tbh its good, it’s rare to have an attack combo, and I havent seen a defense combo. Ever. With more awareness. We might get more counters, and you might have to actually choose your beys instead of just control c control ving lad parts.
A lot of people actually have money, the competitive people specifically do. They’re the ones that will take advantage of this and make the meta an awful place to play in via deck format. Deck was the one place where there was a small amount of variety. But now? It’s an all LAD meta, and having these variants will cement that.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - The Blacknight - Sep. 29, 2021
(Sep. 29, 2021 3:42 PM)CrisisCrusher07 Wrote:(Sep. 29, 2021 3:10 PM)The Blacknight Wrote: I don’t think this is a problem, you underestimate how poor we all are. Couldn’t someone have used zone and zone dash with the chip, or xtend and xtend dash? Didn’t even have to buy the whole set, just the bey/driver. But most of us have no money, and for those who do, a half decent attack combo can usually take em out. Tbh its good, it’s rare to have an attack combo, and I havent seen a defense combo. Ever. With more awareness. We might get more counters, and you might have to actually choose your beys instead of just control c control ving lad parts.
Xtend dash doesn’t exist. Also you can not use the Z chip with both zone and zone dash in a deck because you can not use repeating parts and the Z chip is considered a part. And just because the majority of people can’t afford it doesn’t mean there are not those that can. And those that can will easily take advantage of that and will be able to run decks with double drift or double bearing combos. Right now those 2 drivers are in just about every winning combination list of tournaments since dynamite battle came out.
(Sep. 29, 2021 2:38 PM)Beybladedb Wrote: This rule should only be in limited and classic not rule changes for standard
Why do you think standard would be fine with 2 of essentially the same driver in a deck?
Could have sworn Ive seenxtend dash before. Might hav been fake. My other points sill stand tho
(Sep. 29, 2021 3:45 PM)BuilderROB Wrote:I can agreewith this tho. tr needs variety, an it high time we’ve gotten a broken hasbro release(Sep. 29, 2021 3:10 PM)The Blacknight Wrote: I don’t think this is a problem, you underestimate how poor we all are. Couldn’t someone have used zone and zone dash with the chip, or xtend and xtend dash? Didn’t even have to buy the whole set, just the bey/driver. But most of us have no money, and for those who do, a half decent attack combo can usually take em out. Tbh its good, it’s rare to have an attack combo, and I havent seen a defense combo. Ever. With more awareness. We might get more counters, and you might have to actually choose your beys instead of just control c control ving lad parts.
A lot of people actually have money, the competitive people specifically do. They’re the ones that will take advantage of this and make the meta an awful place to play in via deck format. Deck was the one place where there was a small amount of variety. But now? It’s an all LAD meta, and having these variants will cement that.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - MagikHorse - Oct. 04, 2021
(Sep. 28, 2021 10:14 PM)TheRogueBlader Wrote:(Sep. 28, 2021 10:09 PM)DeltaZakuro Wrote: Bearing' and Bearing are counted as two entirely different drivers, same case with Metal Drift and Regular Drift so i don't think that would count.That’s what I’m saying. Read the first post first. Ok now that you’ve read it 2 drivers even if it’s like high survive, Metal survive, and survive’ or something those shouldn’t be allowed. Obviously survive isn’t good, bad example, but metal drift on the Bahamut core with normal drift on say the belial core mixed with a 3rd combo is OP. Literally. Same thing with bearing’ and bearing. So basically this thread is proposing a rule where we can’t use 2 of the same parts in a deck, and I personally am 100% on board with this idea.
Even the votes are 75% to 25% in favor of using this rule
Is it really too OP to have two Drifts? Drift can be outspun easily in same spin, and Bearing is easier to knock around with things like Guilty and other Attack types.
I say stop complaining that Metal Drift and Bearing' exists and learn how to actually beat them. No deck is perfect, everything has it's counter, if you think your opponent is using two Bearings or two Drifts make your deck counter that harder.
Play the game, don't let the game play you.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - TheRogueBlader - Oct. 04, 2021
(Oct. 04, 2021 2:58 PM)MagikHorse Wrote:(Sep. 28, 2021 10:14 PM)TheRogueBlader Wrote: That’s what I’m saying. Read the first post first. Ok now that you’ve read it 2 drivers even if it’s like high survive, Metal survive, and survive’ or something those shouldn’t be allowed. Obviously survive isn’t good, bad example, but metal drift on the Bahamut core with normal drift on say the belial core mixed with a 3rd combo is OP. Literally. Same thing with bearing’ and bearing. So basically this thread is proposing a rule where we can’t use 2 of the same parts in a deck, and I personally am 100% on board with this idea.
Even the votes are 75% to 25% in favor of using this rule
Is it really too OP to have two Drifts? Drift can be outspun easily in same spin, and Bearing is easier to knock around with things like Guilty and other Attack types.
I say stop complaining that Metal Drift and Bearing' exists and learn how to actually beat them. No deck is perfect, everything has it's counter, if you think your opponent is using two Bearings or two Drifts make your deck counter that harder.
Play the game, don't let the game play you.
Maybe for people who can’t control drift. If they can it has insane stamina, equal to Xtend+ I would say, and yes I own the driver before you say I don’t. Yeah? Ok? Bearings easier to knock around. How does that prove your point? That just proves my point that drift is also OP cause of its high defense.
I know how to beat them. Drift by knocking it off balance making it out of control or top tier stamina, and bearing by KO, higher LAD or super top tier same spin stamina. Yeah I get that, but think about it. 2 drifts in the same deck. Like you could have vanish Bahamut over drift metal-10 and dynamite (f) Perseus giga drift-0. Add that with a extreme KO attacker like guilty on xtreme’ and it is a very hard deck to deal with especially for people like me who don’t have access to a lot of parts.
This part I agree with. Don’t let the game play you. I’m just saying, well, all the stuff I typed above this.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - BuilderROB - Oct. 04, 2021
(Oct. 04, 2021 2:58 PM)MagikHorse Wrote:Yes, actually, because 1. You can have a drift for each spin direction, and 2. If you’re competitive enough, drift can have decent enough same spin. Not super relatable same spin, but if you had to, it’s possible to make it work well enough to OS some stuff.(Sep. 28, 2021 10:14 PM)TheRogueBlader Wrote: That’s what I’m saying. Read the first post first. Ok now that you’ve read it 2 drivers even if it’s like high survive, Metal survive, and survive’ or something those shouldn’t be allowed. Obviously survive isn’t good, bad example, but metal drift on the Bahamut core with normal drift on say the belial core mixed with a 3rd combo is OP. Literally. Same thing with bearing’ and bearing. So basically this thread is proposing a rule where we can’t use 2 of the same parts in a deck, and I personally am 100% on board with this idea.
Even the votes are 75% to 25% in favor of using this rule
Is it really too OP to have two Drifts? Drift can be outspun easily in same spin, and Bearing is easier to knock around with things like Guilty and other Attack types.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - Beybladedb - Oct. 04, 2021
(Oct. 04, 2021 5:40 PM)BuilderROB Wrote:(Oct. 04, 2021 2:58 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: Is it really too OP to have two Drifts? Drift can be outspun easily in same spin, and Bearing is easier to knock around with things like Guilty and other Attack types.Yes, actually, because 1. You can have a drift for each spin direction, and 2. If you’re competitive enough, drift can have decent enough same spin. Not super relatable same spin, but if you had to, it’s possible to make it work well enough to OS some stuff.
Yes drift is is hard to knock balance you will lose opposing spin and same spin its close to best same spin with the never so I think it should be banned
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - TheRogueBlader - Oct. 04, 2021
(Oct. 04, 2021 5:40 PM)BuilderROB Wrote:Exactly! Drift is the best LAD driver alive, and with the stuff that’s releasing for now which is universe metal, bearing’, high wave (for illya’s bey which will likely release soon) and the new belial driver. So with that I don’t see drift being dethroned as king of LAD. It also has some insane opposite spin defense. Practically the only 2 weaknesses are 1- top tier same spin stamina like same spin bearing which you could beat with your 2nd drift bey in your deck, and 2- knocking it off balance which again will only happen in same spin cause in opposite spin you’d just light launch and beat’ em up.(Oct. 04, 2021 2:58 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: Is it really too OP to have two Drifts? Drift can be outspun easily in same spin, and Bearing is easier to knock around with things like Guilty and other Attack types.Yes, actually, because 1. You can have a drift for each spin direction, and 2. If you’re competitive enough, drift can have decent enough same spin. Not super relatable same spin, but if you had to, it’s possible to make it work well enough to OS some stuff.
Also the votes where people don’t think 2 of the same drivers should be in a deck is still higher than the people who think the opposite, even if it is only by 1 vote.
RE: Concerns for Standard after the October releases - CheetoBlader - Oct. 04, 2021
I’m with Magik on this one. Simply just learn how to play attack. Guilty and Savior are both very valid choices.