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+--- Thread: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? (/Thread-Am-I-the-only-one-that-thinks-the-2s-chassis-is-underrated)
Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - AJL Blader - Jul. 02, 2021
I've come to realize that during the time of Sparking in the meta, the 2s chassis was criminally underused in my opinion. As an option for stamina, 2s is able to compete against popular options such as 1s wheel and 2s due to its weight and contact points. The weight of 2s is only a gram less than 1s wheel and a gram heavier than 2s not to mention that the way it makes contact is in the form of heavy impacts at the 3 points in which its weight is distributed making it quite effective for both defense and offense depending on the combination and in my opinion more useful defense and attack than either 2s or 1s wheel.
However, I have never seen it used as much as either of the other 2 chassis/chassis disk combinations.
Am I the only one that thinks this chassis is underrated?
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - DeceasedCrab - Jul. 02, 2021
You just placed third in a tournament, beaten only by Yami or Geetster99, so I'd say you probably know what you're talking about.
Now that you've suggested it, I'll give it some thought.I never found much use in it myself. The LAD is not great compared to others. Being a double sized chassis, you miss out on all the available discs. If you have a narrow enough ring, you can perhaps do good contact with it.
The triangular shape might do best on Valkyrie, but Brave's not really a great layer for it.
Now that I think about it, it may be a good option for a right spinning bey against Dynamite in low mode. Give it a shot!
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Jul. 02, 2021
(Jul. 02, 2021 4:56 AM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: You just placed third in a tournament, beaten only by Yami or Geetster99, so I'd say you probably know what you're talking about.
I never found much use in it myself. The LAD is not great compared to others. Being a double sized chassis, you miss out on all the available discs. If you have a narrow enough ring, you can perhaps do good contact with it.
The triangular shape might do best on Valkyrie, but Brave's not really a great layer for it.
Now that I think about it, it may be a good option for a right spinning bey against Dynamite in low mode. Give it a shot!
Well in WBBA meta for early superking Brave Destroy' 2S was used due to emphasis on attack cos well 2 point KO.
I use 2S but I would not say it's that underated. I would use 2B or 2D for stamina because of their wait and the rubber for the latter.
Useful, but nonetheless shouldn't be used over 2D or 2B for stamina.
But the only bey 2S is really far above others is Curse, because of weight distribution and also a lack of extra recoil.
And Curse also Raises the Chassis a bit higher so the LAD is increased.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - MagikHorse - Jul. 03, 2021
Other double chassis like 2A and 2B can succeed in opposite spin better, but that's something the Crab's already talked about so I won't blab about that known flaw ad nauseum. 2S is just not great in this sort of scenario, and both regular disks (Giga, Tapered, Wheel, 7/10/0/00 Wall) and other double chassis (2A, 2S, 2D) have the advantage there. This is sadly a huge deal in this meta, and severely harms its usefulness and impact.
What I will say is that 2B and 2D seem to lack the same sort of raw Stamina that 2S provides. 2D is bulky, but that rubber is strictly only useful in opposite spin (and usually a huge deficit in same spin) and an awoken 2D without the rubber is too center-heavy to be great for much of anything besides being a discount Wall frame. 2B is well rounded and plenty usable but not really renowned for massive amounts of Stamina either, and 2A is in the same boat but with more of an LAD focus. 2S, from my testing, seems to have the highest raw Stamina over any other double chassis on the other hand, which could make it great for drivers like Atomic and Universe that would far sooner play the same spin game... but there's other issues with that thought.
Why would you run 2S over a single chassis with a disk which can usually outspin double chassis? In that sense single chassis make 2S totally moot. Usually you'd say "burst resistance", but that doesn't seem to be a huge enough issue for Tempest or any other stamina type to warrant it. It could be used for Attack, except there's not really a good aggressive ring to pair it with in right spin. Rage is synonymous with the 3A chassis, so there's no use for it in left spin either since Abyss is terrible aggressively. It does do decent on Mirage itself, but Mirage is basically never seen with the ease that Rage can thrash it, and it'll likely fall prey to Vanish and Roar too. In this line of thinking it makes sense why it's not seen much: The meta is just too LAD heavy to support a same-spin focused double chassis like 2S over more LAD capable parts, and Attack isn't capable of supporting its raw power either due to its antisynergy with Rage and a lack of good right spin Attack options
That much being said there is one exception to this, and one niche that it can fill than other double chassis can't do as effectively: Hollow. Hollow can work as a check to Tempest, depending on skill and luck potentially even a counter, and is a rather powerful Sparking ring in its own right. This is especially true when paired with both 4A and LuciferII to balance it out and improve its Stamina. The thing is 2S can do a similar feat and balance Hollow out slightly, leaving it a little more lopsided and aggressive compared to 4A but still more stable that other double chassis can accomplish. This is its place to stand out with distinction, since Hollow is already not the best option for opposite spin and is probably best used focusing on same spin beatings more while also giving it a means to separate itself from disk options as well as they can't create this slightly lopsided variant the same way. This is something 2S can do that nothing else can, and would easily be tournament worthy pre-DB.
tl;dr: It's totally underrated in the same way Dead Hades and Crash Ragnaruk were, suffering from a meta that relies too heavily on the things they were too weak at to show their strength well. In fact I'd say 2S is likely the single highest power double chassis in the game, and is still nearly unusable because of its weak LAD and lack of aggressive support. If you wanna try running a same-spin bey give it a go and see if you like it over a single chassis and a disk (especially on Hollow), but if you're even thinking of an opposite spin match look elsewhere.
And now to address this.
(Jul. 02, 2021 6:50 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: Well in WBBA meta for early superking Brave Destroy' 2S was used due to emphasis on attack cos well 2 point KO.2D is terrible for anything but opposite spin. The rubber slows it down more than it slows down opponents unless awoken, and without that rubber it's still too centrally weighted to have any real Stamina at all. I have no clue why you'd even think that this is good given that it's essentially shooting yourself in the foot in one spin direction at worst and still being sub-par at best. Feels like it buys in way too much into "heavier is better" with no thought to how that weight is distributed at all.
I use 2S but I would not say it's that underated. I would use 2B or 2D for stamina because of their wait and the rubber for the latter.
Useful, but nonetheless shouldn't be used over 2D or 2B for stamina.
But the only bey 2S is really far above others is Curse, because of weight distribution and also a lack of extra recoil.
And Curse also Raises the Chassis a bit higher so the LAD is increased.
I don't believe 2B has the same amount of Stamina as 2S, but it has far better LAD in a meta that depends more on it. 2B is preferred mostly for that and its higher defendability, not really raw Stamina power. I can see it still being a preference for that alone though.
Curse is not strong enough to warrant consideration. It's weaker than Brave in basically every way, and raising the chassis higher lowers LAD if anything (usually LAD is boosted the lower your center of gravity is, so raising it higher doesn't help). Not at all what I'd be thinking about here, unless you plan on using Curse aggressively upon which case I guess have fun with that because Curse just isn't very good for that to begin with.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - tubitr - Jul. 03, 2021
(Jul. 03, 2021 9:29 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: (...)
anti synergy with Rage
(...)
one niche that it can fill than other double chassis can't do as effectively: Hollow. (...) The thing is 2S can do a similar feat and balance Hollow out slightly, leaving it a little more lopsided and aggressive compared to 4A but still more stable that other double chassis can accomplish.
Rage + 2S gets used on Drift sometimes. It doesn't obstruct Rage as much as 2B and has better LAD than 3A.
--
How does 2S balance Hollow?
Isn't 2S balanced on its own? (it's center of gravity should be in it's middle).
Hollow+2S should have the same center of gravity regardless of 2S's alignment.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - MagikHorse - Jul. 03, 2021
(Jul. 03, 2021 10:47 AM)tubitr Wrote:(Jul. 03, 2021 9:29 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: (...)
anti synergy with Rage
(...)
one niche that it can fill than other double chassis can't do as effectively: Hollow. (...) The thing is 2S can do a similar feat and balance Hollow out slightly, leaving it a little more lopsided and aggressive compared to 4A but still more stable that other double chassis can accomplish.
Rage + 2S gets used on Drift sometimes. It doesn't obstruct Rage as much as 2B and has better LAD than 3A.
--
How does 2S balance Hollow?
Isn't 2S balanced on its own? (it's center of gravity should be in it's middle).
Hollow+2S should have the same center of gravity regardless of 2S's alignment.
Rage and 3A go together far, far better than Rage and 2S, as 2S does block off one of Rage's gaps some and removing 3A also removes powerful aggressive contact points. As a result I have never seen of nor heard of anyone using Rage on 2S, and though I have heard of Rage on Drift 2S is a poor option for that anyways due to its low LAD. World probably does that job better to begin with in left spin, and it just feels like way too much of a hedge.
2S is not perfectly balanced, much like the OG Deathscyther layer. It lacks rotational symmetry, as all of its wings have different arrangements of metal, though it does have flip symmetry from one of its points through the dead center. This means that yes, there is a direction where 2S on Hollow levels it out slightly more than the other, which is where it works best.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - tubitr - Jul. 03, 2021
(Jul. 03, 2021 10:57 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: I have heard of Rage on Drift 2S is a poor option for that anyways due to its low LAD. World probably does that job better to begin with in left spin, and it just feels like way too much of a hedge.
The Rage 2S Drift combo saw some use in wbo events (won some too);
https://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Winning-Combinations-at-WBO-Organized-Play-Events?pid=1764703&highlight=2S+Drift#pid1764703
https://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Winning-Combinations-at-WBO-Organized-Play-Events?pid=1772770&highlight=Drift+2S#pid1772770
https://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Winning-Combinations-at-WBO-Organized-Play-Events?pid=1753325#pid1753325
(Jul. 03, 2021 10:57 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: 2S is not perfectly balancedOh, yeah then that makes sense.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - AJL Blader - Jul. 03, 2021
I would also like to note the fact that from my personally testing 2s was the best chassis to use on world spriggan drift due to its lack of roundness. Since only 50 percent of the chassis actually makes contact it stops most beys from being able to equalize with it at the end of the battle and thus almost never loses in the opposite spin. And to the distribution of weight, it is also one of the only chassis to give world on drift any real impact in the same spin as well with that same variable also causing it to be able to knock over most Mobius combos by the end of the battle in the opposite spin.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Jul. 06, 2021
(Jul. 03, 2021 9:29 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: Other double chassis like 2A and 2B can succeed in opposite spin better, but that's something the Crab's already talked about so I won't blab about that known flaw ad nauseum. 2S is just not great in this sort of scenario, and both regular disks (Giga, Tapered, Wheel, 7/10/0/00 Wall) and other double chassis (2A, 2S, 2D) have the advantage there. This is sadly a huge deal in this meta, and severely harms its usefulness and impact.
What I will say is that 2B and 2D seem to lack the same sort of raw Stamina that 2S provides. 2D is bulky, but that rubber is strictly only useful in opposite spin (and usually a huge deficit in same spin) and an awoken 2D without the rubber is too center-heavy to be great for much of anything besides being a discount Wall frame. 2B is well rounded and plenty usable but not really renowned for massive amounts of Stamina either, and 2A is in the same boat but with more of an LAD focus. 2S, from my testing, seems to have the highest raw Stamina over any other double chassis on the other hand, which could make it great for drivers like Atomic and Universe that would far sooner play the same spin game... but there's other issues with that thought.
Why would you run 2S over a single chassis with a disk which can usually outspin double chassis? In that sense single chassis make 2S totally moot. Usually you'd say "burst resistance", but that doesn't seem to be a huge enough issue for Tempest or any other stamina type to warrant it. It could be used for Attack, except there's not really a good aggressive ring to pair it with in right spin. Rage is synonymous with the 3A chassis, so there's no use for it in left spin either since Abyss is terrible aggressively. It does do decent on Mirage itself, but Mirage is basically never seen with the ease that Rage can thrash it, and it'll likely fall prey to Vanish and Roar too. In this line of thinking it makes sense why it's not seen much: The meta is just too LAD heavy to support a same-spin focused double chassis like 2S over more LAD capable parts, and Attack isn't capable of supporting its raw power either due to its antisynergy with Rage and a lack of good right spin Attack options
That much being said there is one exception to this, and one niche that it can fill than other double chassis can't do as effectively: Hollow. Hollow can work as a check to Tempest, depending on skill and luck potentially even a counter, and is a rather powerful Sparking ring in its own right. This is especially true when paired with both 4A and LuciferII to balance it out and improve its Stamina. The thing is 2S can do a similar feat and balance Hollow out slightly, leaving it a little more lopsided and aggressive compared to 4A but still more stable that other double chassis can accomplish. This is its place to stand out with distinction, since Hollow is already not the best option for opposite spin and is probably best used focusing on same spin beatings more while also giving it a means to separate itself from disk options as well as they can't create this slightly lopsided variant the same way. This is something 2S can do that nothing else can, and would easily be tournament worthy pre-DB.
tl;dr: It's totally underrated in the same way Dead Hades and Crash Ragnaruk were, suffering from a meta that relies too heavily on the things they were too weak at to show their strength well. In fact I'd say 2S is likely the single highest power double chassis in the game, and is still nearly unusable because of its weak LAD and lack of aggressive support. If you wanna try running a same-spin bey give it a go and see if you like it over a single chassis and a disk (especially on Hollow), but if you're even thinking of an opposite spin match look elsewhere.
And now to address this.
(Jul. 02, 2021 6:50 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: Well in WBBA meta for early superking Brave Destroy' 2S was used due to emphasis on attack cos well 2 point KO.2D is terrible for anything but opposite spin. The rubber slows it down more than it slows down opponents unless awoken, and without that rubber it's still too centrally weighted to have any real Stamina at all. I have no clue why you'd even think that this is good given that it's essentially shooting yourself in the foot in one spin direction at worst and still being sub-par at best. Feels like it buys in way too much into "heavier is better" with no thought to how that weight is distributed at all.
I use 2S but I would not say it's that underated. I would use 2B or 2D for stamina because of their wait and the rubber for the latter.
Useful, but nonetheless shouldn't be used over 2D or 2B for stamina.
But the only bey 2S is really far above others is Curse, because of weight distribution and also a lack of extra recoil.
And Curse also Raises the Chassis a bit higher so the LAD is increased.
I don't believe 2B has the same amount of Stamina as 2S, but it has far better LAD in a meta that depends more on it. 2B is preferred mostly for that and its higher defendability, not really raw Stamina power. I can see it still being a preference for that alone though.
Curse is not strong enough to warrant consideration. It's weaker than Brave in basically every way, and raising the chassis higher lowers LAD if anything (usually LAD is boosted the lower your center of gravity is, so raising it higher doesn't help). Not at all what I'd be thinking about here, unless you plan on using Curse aggressively upon which case I guess have fun with that because Curse just isn't very good for that to begin with.
To answer this:
Yes I am talking about opposite spin stamina. I strictly use 2D only in opposite spin. The rubber does make for good equalisation
I agree with your second point.
Why comparing curse with Brave? I'm not using it for attack, raising the chassis actually increases LAD depending on the driver, for example Atomic. Curse actually does have good defence and 2S does help with it.
But overall I feel that 2S wasn't so good and is mainly outclassed, but it does have niche uses.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - MagikHorse - Jul. 06, 2021
(Jul. 06, 2021 7:30 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: To answer this:The issue with the comparison between 2S and 2D is that one is far better for same spin, but 2D is only even remotely good for opposite spin. To judge a part you have to consider both same spin and opposite spin scenarios, which I did above. I still do think that 2S is the strictly best same spin double chassis released, though it's sub-par LAD is too big of a hindrance in the standard meta and DB is rapidly stealing control from Sparking beys already. Either way, 2S and 2D are apples and oranges, as far removed from each other as physically possible in terms of performance.
Yes I am talking about opposite spin stamina. I strictly use 2D only in opposite spin. The rubber does make for good equalisation
I agree with your second point.
Why comparing curse with Brave? I'm not using it for attack, raising the chassis actually increases LAD depending on the driver, for example Atomic. Curse actually does have good defence and 2S does help with it.
But overall I feel that 2S wasn't so good and is mainly outclassed, but it does have niche uses.
The Curse and Brave comparison is rather direct: I believe that Brave has comparable defensive capabilities to Curse, on top of its superior aggressive power and moderate Stamina that Curse lacks. Blow for blow I think Brave simply outclasses Curse in every possible category. In short, there's never a reason to consider Curse because Brave exists as a strictly better part.
Atomic isn't an LAD driver at all either. It's bottom of the totem pole for LAD in the modern era, and anything that's particularly high on the totem pole (e.g. Bearing, Xtend+, Drift) strongly prefers a lower center of gravity to a higher one. This is why Bearing loved the Wall frame's thick build and low overhang so much, and why the upward curve of 2S is so bad for LAD since its center of gravity is higher up than other double chassis that don't curve like that. Sure 2S and Atomic make for a powerful same-spin force, but that's all you're going to be winning using Atomic anyways and LAD isn't even a consideration for that sort of combo. At that point use them together and double down on the same drawback to go hard on those same spin victories, but don't worry so much about LAD with Atomic, Universe, or other low LAD parts.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - The Blacknight - Jul. 06, 2021
I don’t own 2S. but a friend of mine does, so some of this is speculation.
I think 2S is okay. Its fatal flaw is it is simply too mediocre to be used in any other combo but brave Solomon zone’+z. 2S isn’t heavy, has bad lad, no spin equalization, synergy with like 2 rings(that are outclassed), has no versatility, and is too sharp for defense and stamina. But there are parts that are incredibly mediocre, but are great with one combo. The problem with 2S is that its combo that covers some of its faults gives it more. A lot of mainstream lad drivers are very tall, and when the whole point of brave is to use its layer to counter left spins. When it’s so tall, that isn’t possible. Giving it a driver like Xtend+ Would work, but that in stamina mode is quite short, leading to scraping.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Jul. 07, 2021
(Jul. 06, 2021 8:24 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:(Jul. 06, 2021 7:30 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: To answer this:The issue with the comparison between 2S and 2D is that one is far better for same spin, but 2D is only even remotely good for opposite spin. To judge a part you have to consider both same spin and opposite spin scenarios, which I did above. I still do think that 2S is the strictly best same spin double chassis released, though it's sub-par LAD is too big of a hindrance in the standard meta and DB is rapidly stealing control from Sparking beys already. Either way, 2S and 2D are apples and oranges, as far removed from each other as physically possible in terms of performance.
Yes I am talking about opposite spin stamina. I strictly use 2D only in opposite spin. The rubber does make for good equalisation
I agree with your second point.
Why comparing curse with Brave? I'm not using it for attack, raising the chassis actually increases LAD depending on the driver, for example Atomic. Curse actually does have good defence and 2S does help with it.
But overall I feel that 2S wasn't so good and is mainly outclassed, but it does have niche uses.
The Curse and Brave comparison is rather direct: I believe that Brave has comparable defensive capabilities to Curse, on top of its superior aggressive power and moderate Stamina that Curse lacks. Blow for blow I think Brave simply outclasses Curse in every possible category. In short, there's never a reason to consider Curse because Brave exists as a strictly better part.
Atomic isn't an LAD driver at all either. It's bottom of the totem pole for LAD in the modern era, and anything that's particularly high on the totem pole (e.g. Bearing, Xtend+, Drift) strongly prefers a lower center of gravity to a higher one. This is why Bearing loved the Wall frame's thick build and low overhang so much, and why the upward curve of 2S is so bad for LAD since its center of gravity is higher up than other double chassis that don't curve like that. Sure 2S and Atomic make for a powerful same-spin force, but that's all you're going to be winning using Atomic anyways and LAD isn't even a consideration for that sort of combo. At that point use them together and double down on the same drawback to go hard on those same spin victories, but don't worry so much about LAD with Atomic, Universe, or other low LAD parts.
2D is not just remotely good for same spin, it's good if you lack parts like Zone' +Z.
The rest of it I agree, but it's worth considering because on certain drivers and rings the LAD does exist so it isn't that shabby in opposite spin either.
I wouldn't say that, I own both and Curse can safely counter something like Rage in Opposite spin, but Brave cannot. Curse does have moderate to good stamina if used well, and both of the rings are in completely different leagues.
Your completely missing my point. My point was that rasing of the 2S chassis allows even atomic to have LAD, which as you mentioned was at the bottom of the LAD totem. LAD isn't necessarily considering of LCG as it depends on the driver, example: you don't see anyone putting wall on Xtend+ compared to cross because the lad of that bey came from the smooth contacts. On curse, raising the chassis makes for more favorable LAD in truth
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - valtaoi_007 - Jul. 07, 2021
(Jul. 02, 2021 3:47 AM)AJL Blader Wrote: I've come to realize that during the time of Sparking in the meta, the 2s chassis was criminally underused in my opinion. As an option for stamina, 2s is able to compete against popular options such as 1s wheel and 2s due to its weight and contact points. The weight of 2s is only a gram less than 1s wheel and a gram heavier than 2s not to mention that the way it makes contact is in the form of heavy impacts at the 3 points in which its weight is distributed making it quite effective for both defense and offense depending on the combination and in my opinion more useful defense and attack than either 2s or 1s wheel.
However, I have never seen it used as much as either of the other 2 chassis/chassis disk combinations.
Am I the only one that thinks this chassis is underrated?
"2s is able to compete against popular options such as 1s wheel and 2s"
"The weight of 2s is only a gram less than 1s wheel and a gram heavier than 2s "
I sorry for pointing out that but its just that I dont know if you actually meant 2A , 2B or 2D
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - MagikHorse - Jul. 07, 2021
(Jul. 07, 2021 12:29 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: 2D is not just remotely good for same spin, it's good if you lack parts like Zone' +Z.
The rest of it I agree, but it's worth considering because on certain drivers and rings the LAD does exist so it isn't that shabby in opposite spin either.
I wouldn't say that, I own both and Curse can safely counter something like Rage in Opposite spin, but Brave cannot. Curse does have moderate to good stamina if used well, and both of the rings are in completely different leagues.
Your completely missing my point. My point was that rasing of the 2S chassis allows even atomic to have LAD, which as you mentioned was at the bottom of the LAD totem. LAD isn't necessarily considering of LCG as it depends on the driver, example: you don't see anyone putting wall on Xtend+ compared to cross because the lad of that bey came from the smooth contacts. On curse, raising the chassis makes for more favorable LAD in truth
I've heard multiple other bladers I trust for testing results say that 2D is terrible for same spin short of Attack use due to sheer bulk (I don't have an awakened 2D myself to try and test myself), so I'm not quite buying that at all. You'd need something harder than words alone to make me consider that as anything remotely close to truth.
One matchup doesn't dictate everything either, if this is even accurate at all. Like, if Curse really had the Stamina you're claiming over Brave, why was it that Brave on Xtend+ ended up seeing play but Curse was essentially a ghost, unseen in the meta? Shouldn't Curse be able to both defend against and outspin Brave? The same thing applies to its defenses, if it was so good at tanking Rage shouldn't it have seen play given Rage's meteoric rise into prominence? Either you're claiming that you're one of the only people that realized Curse's use, or the meta decided not to care about what you're essentially touting as a superior defensive option that would've been perfect for a Rage-filled meta... but why? The only conclusion I can come to is you're holding Curse on too high a pedestal, that your claims aren't truth.
As to this point I've "missed", I don't think you're paying much attention to my point either so let's just hard reset this. Consider for a moment that you did raise 2S and threw an Atomic on it. What exactly are you beating in LAD with that? Certainly not the top of the LAD game, probably not even the second string LAD options like Destroy'. Universe probably gets whooped, but I can beat that using Atomic regularly without needing 2S or any sorts of raised chassis gimmicks to it. Even if its LAD does improve off of shape alone, does it matter enough? No, not really.
If your point is that shape can matter too then there's no real disagreement there, but it also misses my point entirely. If shape is ignored then the lowest center of gravity you can get will be superior for LAD every single time, and for basically every max LAD driver that isn't Xtend+ you see this prominently (short of a few niche alternatives with some sort of specific combo, such as using Around specifically on Master for extra tightness. Fortunately for many Wheel itself has a favorably low center of gravity already). Wall is indeed too scrapey on Xtend+, hence why Cross is better, but that's not the point I was making to begin with. If there was a better way to get a lower center of gravity on Xtend+, it'd see use there 100%. That's all I should have to say there.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - CrisisCrusher07 - Jul. 07, 2021
So when talking about the 2S chassis I see that most people are really just talking about opposite spin matchups. I fear that a lot of people have come to rely on getting that opposite spin match up and using drift to win. But there is a whole other side to the game.
Yes I’m talking about the same spin match up. A little before we got the Dynamite Battle beys and when Hollow Deathsyther came out me and Geetster99 were testing out a Hollow Lucifer 2 combo using 2S and Universe. We were absolutely destroying a lot of tempest combos which at the time were arguably some of the best competitive combos in the game. I watch a few Japanese Beyblade Chanels on YouTube and over in Japan Universe is used a lot more than it is here, and it works really well with 2S. I highly recommend anyone that wants to try 2S to give it a whirl with Universe.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - MagikHorse - Jul. 07, 2021
(Jul. 07, 2021 6:18 PM)CrisisCrusher07 Wrote: So when talking about the 2S chassis I see that most people are really just talking about opposite spin matchups. I fear that a lot of people have come to rely on getting that opposite spin match up and using drift to win. But there is a whole other side to the game.
Yes I’m talking about the same spin match up. A little before we got the Dynamite Battle beys and when Hollow Deathsyther came out me and Geetster99 were testing out a Hollow Lucifer 2 combo using 2S and Universe. We were absolutely destroying a lot of tempest combos which at the time were arguably some of the best competitive combos in the game. I watch a few Japanese Beyblade Chanels on YouTube and over in Japan Universe is used a lot more than it is here, and it works really well with 2S. I highly recommend anyone that wants to try 2S to give it a whirl with Universe.
Someone else finally gets it. Huzzah!
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - AJL Blader - Jul. 07, 2021
(Jul. 07, 2021 1:52 AM)valtaoi_007 Wrote:(Jul. 02, 2021 3:47 AM)AJL Blader Wrote: I've come to realize that during the time of Sparking in the meta, the 2s chassis was criminally underused in my opinion. As an option for stamina, 2s is able to compete against popular options such as 1s wheel and 2s due to its weight and contact points. The weight of 2s is only a gram less than 1s wheel and a gram heavier than 2s not to mention that the way it makes contact is in the form of heavy impacts at the 3 points in which its weight is distributed making it quite effective for both defense and offense depending on the combination and in my opinion more useful defense and attack than either 2s or 1s wheel.
However, I have never seen it used as much as either of the other 2 chassis/chassis disk combinations.
Am I the only one that thinks this chassis is underrated?
"2s is able to compete against popular options such as 1s wheel and 2s"
"The weight of 2s is only a gram less than 1s wheel and a gram heavier than 2s "
I sorry for pointing out that but its just that I dont know if you actually meant 2A , 2B or 2D
My apologies I meant 2a
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - CrisisCrusher07 - Jul. 08, 2021
(Jul. 07, 2021 9:56 PM)AJL Blader Wrote:(Jul. 07, 2021 1:52 AM)valtaoi_007 Wrote: "2s is able to compete against popular options such as 1s wheel and 2s"
"The weight of 2s is only a gram less than 1s wheel and a gram heavier than 2s "
I sorry for pointing out that but its just that I dont know if you actually meant 2A , 2B or 2D
My apologies I meant 2a
So this thread is about 2A or 2S? Lol
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - AJL Blader - Jul. 08, 2021
(Jul. 08, 2021 2:09 AM)CrisisCrusher07 Wrote:(Jul. 07, 2021 9:56 PM)AJL Blader Wrote: My apologies I meant 2a
So this thread is about 2A or 2S? Lol
The thread is about 2s but in my original comment I meant to compare it to 1s wheel and 2a not "1s wheel and 2s"
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Jul. 11, 2021
(Jul. 07, 2021 7:03 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:(Jul. 07, 2021 12:29 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: 2D is not just remotely good for same spin, it's good if you lack parts like Zone' +Z.
The rest of it I agree, but it's worth considering because on certain drivers and rings the LAD does exist so it isn't that shabby in opposite spin either.
I wouldn't say that, I own both and Curse can safely counter something like Rage in Opposite spin, but Brave cannot. Curse does have moderate to good stamina if used well, and both of the rings are in completely different leagues.
Your completely missing my point. My point was that rasing of the 2S chassis allows even atomic to have LAD, which as you mentioned was at the bottom of the LAD totem. LAD isn't necessarily considering of LCG as it depends on the driver, example: you don't see anyone putting wall on Xtend+ compared to cross because the lad of that bey came from the smooth contacts. On curse, raising the chassis makes for more favorable LAD in truth
I've heard multiple other bladers I trust for testing results say that 2D is terrible for same spin short of Attack use due to sheer bulk (I don't have an awakened 2D myself to try and test myself), so I'm not quite buying that at all. You'd need something harder than words alone to make me consider that as anything remotely close to truth.
One matchup doesn't dictate everything either, if this is even accurate at all. Like, if Curse really had the Stamina you're claiming over Brave, why was it that Brave on Xtend+ ended up seeing play but Curse was essentially a ghost, unseen in the meta? Shouldn't Curse be able to both defend against and outspin Brave? The same thing applies to its defenses, if it was so good at tanking Rage shouldn't it have seen play given Rage's meteoric rise into prominence? Either you're claiming that you're one of the only people that realized Curse's use, or the meta decided not to care about what you're essentially touting as a superior defensive option that would've been perfect for a Rage-filled meta... but why? The only conclusion I can come to is you're holding Curse on too high a pedestal, that your claims aren't truth.
As to this point I've "missed", I don't think you're paying much attention to my point either so let's just hard reset this. Consider for a moment that you did raise 2S and threw an Atomic on it. What exactly are you beating in LAD with that? Certainly not the top of the LAD game, probably not even the second string LAD options like Destroy'. Universe probably gets whooped, but I can beat that using Atomic regularly without needing 2S or any sorts of raised chassis gimmicks to it. Even if its LAD does improve off of shape alone, does it matter enough? No, not really.
If your point is that shape can matter too then there's no real disagreement there, but it also misses my point entirely. If shape is ignored then the lowest center of gravity you can get will be superior for LAD every single time, and for basically every max LAD driver that isn't Xtend+ you see this prominently (short of a few niche alternatives with some sort of specific combo, such as using Around specifically on Master for extra tightness. Fortunately for many Wheel itself has a favorably low center of gravity already). Wall is indeed too scrapey on Xtend+, hence why Cross is better, but that's not the point I was making to begin with. If there was a better way to get a lower center of gravity on Xtend+, it'd see use there 100%. That's all I should have to say there.
The first point you made was cos I made a typo- sorry. 2D is terrible in same spin.
Brave was used on Xtend+ as a destabilizer - not for pure stamina, just effective as a destabilizer
Wait I'm confused, I thought this discussion was on whether 2S was underrated - not meta. It was probably only meta during the first few releases of Superking, 2S atomic was able to tie against Xtend+ a good amount of the time.
I used curse in a few tournaments, and it did well against Rage, WBO didn't seem to use Curse at all after all. I guess WBO missed out on a few layers? Curse, and stuff like Burn Phoenix are quite common locally here
I'm not disagreeing with any of your points - I just feel there are aspects of the meta missed
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - Fafnirguy27 - Jul. 25, 2021
Yes. I think it is very good because it has a good balance portion and those little edge things can be used in between the bey’s big blades to get some decent hits on the opponent’s beyblade.
(Jul. 25, 2021 4:10 PM)Fafnirguy27 Wrote: Yes. I think it is very good because it has a good balance portion and those little edge things can be used in between the bey’s big blades to get some decent hits on the opponent’s beyblade.
Just realized we r talking about 2d. This paragraph is about 2s.2d has horrible teeth. If u r going for a single chassis use 1s. It’s teeth are a bit better and it has better weight distribution.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - MagikHorse - Jul. 31, 2021
(Jul. 25, 2021 4:10 PM)Fafnirguy27 Wrote: Yes. I think it is very good because it has a good balance portion and those little edge things can be used in between the bey’s big blades to get some decent hits on the opponent’s beyblade.
(Jul. 25, 2021 4:10 PM)Fafnirguy27 Wrote: Yes. I think it is very good because it has a good balance portion and those little edge things can be used in between the bey’s big blades to get some decent hits on the opponent’s beyblade.
Just realized we r talking about 2d. This paragraph is about 2s.2d has horrible teeth. If u r going for a single chassis use 1s. It’s teeth are a bit better and it has better weight distribution.
No, this thread is on 2S, not 2D. You were right the first time.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks the 2s chassis is underrated? - Fafnirguy27 - Aug. 02, 2021
(Jul. 31, 2021 1:58 PM)MagikHorse Wrote:(Jul. 25, 2021 4:10 PM)Fafnirguy27 Wrote: Yes. I think it is very good because it has a good balance portion and those little edge things can be used in between the bey’s big blades to get some decent hits on the opponent’s beyblade.
Just realized we r talking about 2d. This paragraph is about 2s.2d has horrible teeth. If u r going for a single chassis use 1s. It’s teeth are a bit better and it has better weight distribution.
No, this thread is on 2S, not 2D. You were right the first time.
Oh ok