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+---- Thread: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 27/12/11 (/Thread-MFB-Tiers-list-Last-Updated-27-12-11)
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RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - gibsonmac - Oct. 30, 2011
SD should still be top tier, I think it's under-use has more to do with availability compared to WD than actual performance... see there are, what?, 3 beys at most that come with SD(only 2 TT)... Dark Bull(carp)...Poison Serpent(double carp)...and Dark Libra from a combo pack, I believe that's it aside from limited beys, which are not readily available to most. WD on the other hand is spamed on most releases that have anything to do with stamina or defense, its the most released bottom for both Takara and Hasbro...
Just because something isn't used as much, does not mean it is not as good... there are far more people still using WB than MB... should MB be tier 2 defense and WB tier 1??? hell no, but because of it only being available from a 3-bey TT set, and a limited Gravity Perseus, not many people have the part, as compared to WB... though with Hasbro's releases over the next year, hopefully all this will change, Poison Zuraffa S130MB is being released as a starter around Christmas time, so all of the 'rarer' parts will become widely available on the cheap, and we will have a better sample of what truly is top tier when everyone has the same stuff available to them (aside from 4d)
(Oct. 30, 2011 2:47 PM)Y!GN!F!CENT Wrote: i think l-drago clear wheel should be in stamina tier three ( i read somewhere that it meteo l-drago is listed as stamina in takara tomy pack ) and it has the best stamina as it takes other beys spin lol this shud be understood
Takara also lists VariAres as 'Defense type' on the box... we all know that it has Zero defense capability... WBO defense= heavy tanks that take hits, or are difficult to get good hits against, and are difficult to KO... TT defense= counter-attacks, high-recoil >>> Takara and the WBO have different classifications and meanings to those classifications even if they share a name...
BTW Meteo comes as a LTAC with the super aggressive LF, how is that stamina??? the 'recommended combo' on the back is MLD 100WD for spin steal, not stamina, they have very different launch strategies...
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - RustyXD - Oct. 30, 2011
What about WD ? Is there any specific combo it is used in that nothing does better with? IMO if we drop SD , WD should go as well. I mean what makes WD that much better then SD that only SD is being dropped?
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Hazel - Oct. 30, 2011
WD is simply the most versatile and in many cases, better, choice for most Stamina combos aside from extreme LTSC.
I'm really not sure why you would even question it. That's like asking "Why keep Basalt in T1 Defense?"
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - RustyXD - Oct. 30, 2011
Well to me there is only a slight difference so why drop one and leave the other if SD is dropped then WD should go as well , as the best stamina combos nowdays use EDS and B : D.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Hazel - Oct. 30, 2011
(Oct. 30, 2011 9:32 PM)RustyXD Wrote: Well to me there is only a slight difference so why drop one and leave the other if SD is dropped then WD should go as well , as the best stamina combos nowdays use EDS and B : D.
EDS is only better on some combos, and B:D is not versatile in any way - not to mention being prone to mold variations that dramatically influence performance. I honestly haven't seen many combos actually employing B:D since its release.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - RustyXD - Oct. 30, 2011
OK well I what I mean is would any WD combo be able to beat Scythe/Phantom BD145EDS? and maybe B : D I haven't seen much of B : D but I am getting it within a few days so i will try it out then.
Anyway here are my toughs about WD. Don't drop WD it is very similar to WD , just with less usage so why keep keep one and drop the other it doesn't make sense.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Hazel - Oct. 30, 2011
You said WD several times, where I believe you meant to say "Anyway here are my thoughts about SD: Don't Drop SD it is very similar to WD, just with less usage so why keep one and drop the other it doesn't make sense".
However, WD is just as common as SD(in a purchasing sense) and does everything better. The aggressive counter-responses WD provides are less potent/present on SD, which is part of what makes WD so great.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Dan - Oct. 30, 2011
WD is released much more often, and in very influential beys as well (Flame Byxis, Gravity Perseus, Beat Lynx, Basalt Horogium etc.) While SD is only released with a single decent bey: Dark Bull, which is only decent due to its Clear Wheel and even that can easily be replaced by Aquario or Kerbecs.
Anyway: DS≥WD>SD.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Primal - Oct. 30, 2011
In my opinion, WD should be kept, SD should be dropped, and B:D mold A*number of good mold* should be added.
DS I'm not too sure about; from what I've heard it doesn't have as much balance as WD. Seeing as my dog messed up my only DS, I can't do tests, sadly. :\
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Hazel - Oct. 30, 2011
I've not actually seen any comparative studies on DS versus WD, to be honest, but I had also heard about it having worse balance.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Dan - Oct. 30, 2011
It [DS] has Stamina close to WD if not equal to it, and much better defense..
DS always lost to WD in my tests, but by a couple of seconds.. ;(
dat precession.
I wish I could prove to you all that weak launching works with all tips.. I know it works for RS and CS and IIRC DS as well.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Raigeko13 - Oct. 30, 2011
>all tips
Even RF?
wat
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - gibsonmac - Oct. 30, 2011
I really don't think the B
has anything to do with molds, I have three, each with different 'a-#' stamps and they all get 6-7mins and its even more now that they've been 'broken in'... After talking to people with the 'duds' its a problem with the bearing and a little catch or click in the spin, by the way, I have one with the same stamp as Arupreao's dud... my bearing just happens to work properly...
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Shabalabadoo - Oct. 31, 2011
(Oct. 30, 2011 11:28 PM)Raigeko13 Wrote: >all tips
Even RF?
wat
With rubber bottoms, launching weaker helps. It adds more grip.
Just don't launch too weak or you're screwed.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - gibsonmac - Oct. 31, 2011
DS?? never liked it much, so I never put much time in with it, perhaps some comparatives are indeed in order, against attack/def/stam... and what is with the notion that D is only preferred on 230?? it seems this too has a bad rap because of availability, though more accessible than SD, and widely available in RBV's just not so much on the Hasbro side, or overall as compared to WD...
Too true on the SD, looking at my tips, I have about 22 or so WD's in my little tips case, and 2 SD's, I have more MB's and RB's than SD... I think that is the biggest reason why it is not widely used, It was only released in 3 accessible releases (2 in TT world) and they both were carp releases at least in part (Dark_ _SD and Poison_ _SD)
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Shabalabadoo - Oct. 31, 2011
No, it's definitely not accessibility.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Hazel - Oct. 31, 2011
D is quite readily available. However, The D Theory is really not widely viewed as successfully applicable to all WD situations, if that is what you were referring to. It's situational. For regular, non deep-banking use, D is most successful on 230.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Dan - Oct. 31, 2011
(Oct. 30, 2011 11:28 PM)Raigeko13 Wrote: >all tipsespecially RF..
Even RF?
wat
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Jaygrazer - Oct. 31, 2011
(Oct. 31, 2011 1:02 AM)Hazel Wrote: D is quite readily available. However, The D Theory is really not widely viewed as successfully applicable to all WD situations, if that is what you were referring to. It's situational. For regular, non deep-banking use, D is most successful on 230.
I support this. Through my rather fun experience, D was more stable than CS on Basalt 230. And my CS is half worn man.... Oh yeah no metal face variant.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - RustyXD - Oct. 31, 2011
I really don't get good results at all with DS it is just to easy to knock off balance , but again why drop SD and not WD if you keep one you have to keep the other as they are basically the same , there is no dramatic difference. If I tested SD Vs WD I could garentee the results to be 10-10 or -9-11.
DS may have better defense then WD but if you want defense and stamina CS would be better.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Hazel - Oct. 31, 2011
There is most certainly a difference between WD and SD. WD has a wider surface area to displace weight across when it's tipped from contact with another MW, meaning it's riding its own edge less. This gives it the aggressive response mechanism most people look for in it, not to mention an overall better chance of outspinning more aggressive or semi-aggressive Defense combinations.
I'm really not sure how you're seeing SD and WD as the same.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - BillyBlast - Oct. 31, 2011
Sorry to jump into this but I defend SD.
SD has a biger pount than WD and in my personal testing it does quite well it may be worse than others now because when it getsd of balance it loses stamina like W2D actiually exactly like except it doesn't lose as much stamina. DS I also am A supporter of and is a good stamina tip
Let's not forget what is in tier 1 not The Best all of the best. EDS may be better than WD whihc may be better than SD and EWD which beats D besides 230 While SD and others tie to they are all great as long as anoher tip doesn't blow them in the dust they all are quite Usable when there is a tip that beats EDS then we may need to consider but for now at least I believe Tier 1 Stamina Tips should be in order not to ask they be in order though.
Tier 1
1.EDS
2.B:D
3.WD
4.SD
5.D
6.DS (Maybe)
Tier 2
1.EWD
2.W2D
Tier 3
1.B
2.CS (Maybe Ter 2 undecided)
This is my opinion on the matter.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - RustyXD - Oct. 31, 2011
(Oct. 31, 2011 4:38 AM)Hazel Wrote: There is most certainly a difference between WD and SD. WD has a wider surface area to displace weight across when it's tipped from contact with another MW, meaning it's riding its own edge less. This gives it the aggressive response mechanism most people look for in it, not to mention an overall better chance of outspinning more aggressive or semi-aggressive Defense combinations.
I'm really not sure how you're seeing SD and WD as the same.
I am not seeing them the same but I do not think there is as much difference as you guys are pointing it out to be , IMO SD gets knocked off balance less although when it does it cannot really recover. I mean WD has better chance of OS aggressive defense and stuff but is it really by a large enough amount to put SD in tier 2 and leave WD in tier1? I mean VariAres attack is without a doubt wayyyyyyy then to Vulcan and they are only separated by 1 tier.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - Hazel - Oct. 31, 2011
I wouldn't put B: D above WD for the simple fact that you cannot control its height and it requires a specific launch angle to get the most out of it.
(Oct. 31, 2011 5:04 AM)RustyXD Wrote: I am not seeing them the same but I do not think there is as much difference as you guys are pointing it out to be , IMO SD gets knocked off balance less although when it does it cannot really recover. I mean WD has better chance of OS aggressive defense and stuff but is it really by a large enough amount to put SD in tier 2 and leave WD in tier1? I mean VariAres attack is without a doubt wayyyyyyy then to Vulcan and they are only separated by 1 tier.
If SD gets knocked off balance - which is actually quite easy - it's game over for SD. Knocking WD off balance is not game over for it, and it's also a good deal more difficult to destabilize than SD.
That is a pretty massive performance difference. If SD ends up in T1, it should be dead bottom, or above DS.
RE: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 25/10/11 - RustyXD - Oct. 31, 2011
(Oct. 31, 2011 5:05 AM)Hazel Wrote: I wouldn't put B: D above WD for the simple fact that you cannot control its height and it requires a specific launch angle to get the most out of it.Agreed I had a look at the B
thread and results seem all over the place.(Oct. 31, 2011 5:05 AM)Hazel Wrote: That is a pretty massive performance difference. If SD ends up in T1, it should be dead bottom, or above DS.I also agree with this I think that is the right place it should go although I am not a fan of DS as EWD is sooo much better.
Also there are a few minor things that I want to change I don't know about anyone else though.
1) BD145 in stamina should also be with EDS as BD145EDS works really well.
2) GB145 removed from defense.(I have explained my reasons multiple times AFAIK.) but briefly it doesn't stack up to the rest of the defense tracks.
3) Flame should be moved up to tier 2 it can beat basalt and Libra .