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+--- Thread: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game (/Thread-Why-F230-CF-GCF-breaks-the-game)
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - RagerBlade - Nov. 02, 2013
(Nov. 02, 2013 5:46 PM)theblackdragon Wrote: First of all, I kind of doubt those results... I've tried the same method before, and nothing came of it.My F230 is orange. My bey knocks it unbalanced and F230 just spins in the center.
Second, is your F230 orange? Girago Begirados GB145CF OSing Dragooon F230CF is unheard of, unless your F230 is red/brown.
Third, what exactly does Girago Begirados GB145CF do well against besides, apparently, Dragooon F230CF?
The idea here is not to build something that can beat Dragooon F230... the idea is to build something that beats Dragooon F230 and can be called competitive against at least some of the rest of the metagame.
Third, we're testing Dragooon F230 against Attack in Zero-G, not BB-10. No one is going to ban Dragooon F230 in BB-10 format play anytime soon, so testing in BB-10 isn't really changing anything.
I have only done this test. I am doing others and I beleive in this combo.
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - TimeOut - Nov. 02, 2013
Gosh dang we need a dual-spin chrome wheel....
Also, I think Genbull Dragooon SA165 MB can beat a wide enough range of things to fit the bill of a competitive counter
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - Kei - Nov. 02, 2013
(Nov. 02, 2013 9:01 PM)Time Wrote: Gosh dang we need a dual-spin chrome wheel....
If anything could ever be absolutely overpowered in the Zero-G metagame, it would be a dual-spin Chrome Wheel. We're lucky that Gravity is far too light to be usable.
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - RagerBlade - Nov. 02, 2013
So what about Vari Ares then?
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - Kei - Nov. 02, 2013
(Nov. 02, 2013 10:35 PM)RagerBlade Wrote: So what about Vari Ares then?
I didn't mention VariAres because it's also too light, and it has no Stamina properties at all.
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - RagerBlade - Nov. 02, 2013
(Nov. 02, 2013 10:37 PM)Kei Wrote:I haven't followed VariAres at all so I wouldn't know. XD(Nov. 02, 2013 10:35 PM)RagerBlade Wrote: So what about Vari Ares then?
I didn't mention VariAres because it's also too light, and it has no Stamina properties at all.
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - Oceanking - Nov. 04, 2013
Can someone actually do some tests? This topic is like 7 pages of nothing. I'd be interested in tests against Duo __ B:D
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - ShinobuXD - Nov. 04, 2013
Uh... does Duo F230 CF not handle Dragooon F230 GCF? I was under the impression it did.
By the way, I am fully against banning F230 in any way, shape, or form. I find it hard to believe it can easily take down combos such as:
Dragooon SA165 GCF
Dragooon SA165 BWD/TB
Duo F230 CF
Balro Balro SA165 GF
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - TimeOut - Nov. 04, 2013
Dragoon MB, the rest of those it deals with no problem via sway or regular ko, also when Wyvang or begiradoas are put in the bottom anything on a stamina tip gets flat out destroyed (I would think the same with bahamdia)
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - Plastics Lover - Nov. 04, 2013
No Beyblade Part can be that OP to ban it. At one point, you guys were thinking about banning Basalt. When a Part becomes "OP" we try to use our noggins and find a Viable Counter...
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - TimeOut - Nov. 04, 2013
Don't talk like you know what was going on at the time, all you new members are really starting to get annoying with trying to contribute on subjects you know nothing about. You act like you were here during the time when you weren't
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - Kai-V - Nov. 04, 2013
(Nov. 04, 2013 2:01 PM)Time Wrote: Don't talk like you know what was going on at the time, all you new members are really starting to get annoying with trying to contribute on subjects you know nothing about. You act like you were here during the time when you weren't
Even then, some people whom you would not consider "new" right now were not there at all when Basalt was discussed either, and especially not when Libra was the subject of the conversation. Basalt was what, two years ago ? So even people whom you think are well 'incrusted' right now were actually not here or anywhere in the community then.
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - RDF3 - Nov. 04, 2013
Personally, I do not think that Dragooon F230CF would be that hard to beat with an anti-spin stealer (Revizer^2 SA165RDF/EWD vs Genbull Dragooon F230CF, can anyone test it for me? I want to see how my idea works) but considering I do not own F230 (and won't until next month) i cannot say much else.
Off-Topic Edit: How come i didn't notice my posts were above 100??!?!?
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - RagerBlade - Nov. 04, 2013
(Nov. 04, 2013 2:26 PM)Kai-V Wrote:I was watching the WBO long before I registered... Could be the same with him.(Nov. 04, 2013 2:01 PM)Time Wrote: Don't talk like you know what was going on at the time, all you new members are really starting to get annoying with trying to contribute on subjects you know nothing about. You act like you were here during the time when you weren't
Even then, some people whom you would not consider "new" right now were not there at all when Basalt was discussed either, and especially not when Libra was the subject of the conversation. Basalt was what, two years ago ? So even people whom you think are well 'incrusted' right now were actually not here or anywhere in the community then.
(Nov. 04, 2013 4:47 PM)RDF3 Wrote: Personally, I do not think that Dragooon F230CF would be that hard to beat with an anti-spin stealer (Revizer^2 SA165RDF/EWD vs Genbull Dragooon F230CF, can anyone test it for me? I want to see how my idea works) but considering I do not own F230 (and won't until next month) i cannot say much else.I could do Killerken Reviser, but in what stadium?
Off-Topic Edit: How come i didn't notice my posts were above 100??!?!?
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - RDF3 - Nov. 04, 2013
Quote:I could do Killerken Reviser, but in what stadium?Since the F230CF issue is in the Zero-G Attack Stadium that would be a choice. But if So i might have added BSF/SB anyway.
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - [)ragon - Nov. 04, 2013
F230CF/GCF flat-out DESTROYS any other spin-equalizing setup if your F230 isn't worn out.
ShinobuXD: Funny thing, Dragooon F230 actually beat everything on that list during the last few tournaments.
The fact that Dragooon F230 loses to same-spin sway attack is not true. All you have to do is launch at 50-60%, and you win (or so suggests my tournament/testing experience with it).
To be honest, the only really feasible counter is Dragooon SA165TB. The problem there is, you have no guarantee of winning if your opponent knows what they're doing. If they bank, they should be able to knock you off balance and win via OS. Of course, this would be a lot harder in a tournament setting where Dragooon TB wouldn't be launched first, but there's something else... What exactly does Dragooon TB work well against besides Dragooon F230? The majority of the metagame anywhere is going to be right-spin, so using a Dragooon combo with TB is suicide for the most part, unless you get lucky.
If your metagame is Dragooon-heavy, then it could be a decent option, but for the most part I think most of us would agree that Dragooon TB isn't exactly top-of-the-line, even if it can take out Dragooon F230 part of the time.
Besides... having only 1 competitive counter isn't really enough to dismiss the idea that something is overpowered.
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - RagerBlade - Nov. 04, 2013
(Nov. 04, 2013 6:38 PM)theblackdragon Wrote: F230CF/GCF flat-out DESTROYS any other spin-equalizing setup if your F230 isn't worn out.I agree with SA165TB being a counter, but is it good enough? SA165 and TB have huge balance problems, and I have seen SA165TB only being able to beat Genbull Genbull F230CF.
ShinobuXD: Funny thing, Dragooon F230 actually beat everything on that list during the last few tournaments.
The fact that Dragooon F230 loses to same-spin sway attack is not true. All you have to do is launch at 50-60%, and you win (or so suggests my tournament/testing experience with it).
To be honest, the only really feasible counter is Dragooon SA165TB. The problem there is, you have no guarantee of winning if your opponent knows what they're doing. If they bank, they should be able to knock you off balance and win via OS. Of course, this would be a lot harder in a tournament setting where Dragooon TB wouldn't be launched first, but there's something else... What exactly does Dragooon TB work well against besides Dragooon F230? The majority of the metagame anywhere is going to be right-spin, so using a Dragooon combo with TB is suicide for the most part, unless you get lucky.
If your metagame is Dragooon-heavy, then it could be a decent option, but for the most part I think most of us would agree that Dragooon TB isn't exactly top-of-the-line, even if it can take out Dragooon F230 part of the time.
Besides... having only 1 competitive counter isn't really enough to dismiss the idea that something is overpowered.
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - TimeOut - Nov. 05, 2013
(Nov. 04, 2013 2:26 PM)Kai-V Wrote:(Nov. 04, 2013 2:01 PM)Time Wrote: Don't talk like you know what was going on at the time, all you new members are really starting to get annoying with trying to contribute on subjects you know nothing about. You act like you were here during the time when you weren't
Even then, some people whom you would not consider "new" right now were not there at all when Basalt was discussed either, and especially not when Libra was the subject of the conversation. Basalt was what, two years ago ? So even people whom you think are well 'incrusted' right now were actually not here or anywhere in the community then.
My point exactly, I wasn't around for libra or basalt which is why you haven't seen me basing any arguments considering f230 in comparison to the metas of that time
Also, dragooon sa165 mb says hello again
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - [)ragon - Nov. 05, 2013
Well, Kei just came back from a tournament where Dragooon F230 lost to Dragooon SA165BWD several times. :\
Mind blown.
I don't know how results between tournaments/testing could be so opposite. Anyone else seeing Dragooon SA165BWD taking out Dragooon F230? I've tested it multiple times, and F230 still comes out on top, but tournament results are usually more reliable than testing.Anyone tried this?
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - LMAO - Nov. 05, 2013
What in the world are you guys talking about?
Genbull/Revizer/Killerken Dragooon SA165BWD dominates Dragooon F230, seen from the last tournament in Toronto, and some Informal tests that I did.
EDIT: The black dragon beat me to it.
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - [)ragon - Nov. 05, 2013
LMAO: Well, there's a problem though... Dragooon F230 beats Dragooon BWD here, but not there!
It doesn't make sense... In one place, F230 wins, and in another BWD wins. Question... do you guys ever bank F230 against anything?
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - Yami - Nov. 05, 2013
I bank so deep if there a same direction sway.
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - DrPepsidew - Nov. 05, 2013
Factor in launch power differences. Jeez.
Anywho, I return with tests:
BB-10, gray LR Launcher
KILLERKEN Dragooon F230 (Orange) GCF VS Wyvang^2 GB145 R2F
KD 7 Wins (6 OS, 1 KO)
WW 13 Wins (All KO)
VS Wyvang Dragooon SA165 (Atk) R2F
KD 4 Wins (All OS)
WD 16 Wins (7 OS, 9 KO)
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - LMAO - Nov. 05, 2013
Just did a test with Revizer Dragooon SA165BWD vs Genbull Dragooon F230GCF:
Spoiler (Click to View)
RE: Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game - Plastics Lover - Nov. 05, 2013
(Nov. 04, 2013 2:01 PM)Time Wrote: Don't talk like you know what was going on at the time, all you new members are really starting to get annoying with trying to contribute on subjects you know nothing about. You act like you were here during the time when you weren't
I read the advanced from and I know that Basalt was almost banned. So don't arbitrarily post such a stupid and rude comment. No Part is that OP and in time, F230 CF/GCF will not be so OP... as soon as we find some reliable counters.
(Nov. 05, 2013 4:13 AM)LMAO Wrote: Just did a test with Revizer Dragooon SA165BWD vs Genbull Dragooon F230GCF:
Spoiler (Click to View)