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+---- Thread: Fusion Discussion. (/Thread-Fusion-Discussion)
RE: Fusion Discussion. - kbuno50 - Dec. 31, 2011
We haven't tested stamina.
Yep, just said it.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Uwik - Dec. 31, 2011
I appreciate the tests Blitz. It's interesting to see that the rubbers on Fusion are the one that potentially hinders its performance.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Janstarblast - Dec. 31, 2011
Uwik- Well, it was quite predictable.
MLD sucked against Left Spin, reason being that its Rubber made it suck.
Fusion belongs to the right-spin category. Right Spin beys are widely used, which would certainly result in Fusion's rubber being a hindrance.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Uwik - Dec. 31, 2011
I actually like the idea of having rubbers covering up a heavy metal wheel. It's shock-absorbant of some sort.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - th!nk - Dec. 31, 2011
Same, I don't think the rubber itself is *entirely* to blame for this wheel not being amazing, although it could of course be the choice of consistency of rubber or the shape of it or whatever. In theory, rubber should help absorb shock, reduce recoil, etc. :\
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Janstarblast - Dec. 31, 2011
Well, IMO the rubber is casting a negative impact, even though it was not meant to do so...
I do not know a lot about the wheel's metal frame, as I really didn't pay much attention to it.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Glowfire1 - Dec. 31, 2011
That´s a little bit dissapointing, but can someone test it in this combinations?
MF-H Fusion Hades 85/90 RB, RDF, RSF, RF, R²F, EDS vs ...
MF-H Fusion Hades R145 RF, RDF, RB, RSF vs ...
MF-H Fusion S130, DF105 MF vs ...
I hope one of this combos can be performe good
and thx Blitz for the testings
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Arupaeo - Dec. 31, 2011
Has everyone here lost the ability to see the good results alongside the bad?
TH170 and 230 are not good defense tracks (Phantom results notwithstanding), and I am not at all surprised that Fusion produces bad results on them against VariAres.
BD145 is a good defense track, and MF-H Fusion Aqaurio BD145CS produces a 50/50 result against what is arguably one of the most potent attack combos of all time!
Oh, and of course MF-H Fusion Aquario 85RB produces a 75% win rate... Hello??? I will take a 75% win rate against VariAres all day long.
A wheel doesn't have to produce excellent results on every track you test in order to be a game changer - just the ones you end up using to win the game.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Gibraltor - Dec. 31, 2011
Definitely going to get it regardless still, just because it looks cool and gimmicky and all that. But I am drawing the line at spending a ton to find it in a booster lol.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - kbuno50 - Dec. 31, 2011
*ahem* Stamina testing anybody? If it does bad on defense and attack, there's still stamina.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Arupaeo - Dec. 31, 2011
(Dec. 31, 2011 6:57 PM)kbuno50 Wrote: *ahem* Stamina testing anybody? If it does bad on defense and attack, there's still stamina.
Again, it has not done badly on Defense. It has done quite well with the BD145CS and 85RB combos.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Kei - Dec. 31, 2011
(Dec. 31, 2011 7:36 PM)Arupaeo Wrote: Again, it has not done badly on Defense. It has done quite well with the BD145CS and 85RB combos.
I agree. How can anyone expect a TH170/230CS combo–no matter what Wheel you use–to have excellent Defense? They're not good defensive Tracks, especially when paired with CS.
What I'm wondering is, how would MF-H Fusion (Defense Mode) Aquario BD145CS and the 85RB variant fare against VairAres in right spin? Left spin has always seemed to do better against rubber-based Bottoms (or at least, in the case of RS, this is true), so I wonder if the same applies for "rubber-based" Wheels like Fusion.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - OnePiece - Dec. 31, 2011
so it looks to be a good low height defence wheel, interesting im really desperate to get on now ^^ can anyone do some stamina tests please?
RE: Fusion Discussion. - TimelessOne - Jan. 01, 2012
Well, i guess Fusion is decent.. But it managed OK against Vari! And Fusion with 85 is AWSM as! Hope some more tests to come.
And Blitz, a FEW fusions? Wow. Hope to get some good results for SWD!
RE: Fusion Discussion. - th!nk - Jan. 01, 2012
(Dec. 31, 2011 4:55 PM)Arupaeo Wrote: Has everyone here lost the ability to see the good results alongside the bad?
TH170 and 230 are not good defense tracks (Phantom results notwithstanding), and I am not at all surprised that Fusion produces bad results on them against VariAres.
BD145 is a good defense track, and MF-H Fusion Aqaurio BD145CS produces a 50/50 result against what is arguably one of the most potent attack combos of all time!
Oh, and of course MF-H Fusion Aquario 85RB produces a 75% win rate... Hello??? I will take a 75% win rate against VariAres all day long.
A wheel doesn't have to produce excellent results on every track you test in order to be a game changer - just the ones you end up using to win the game.
I pointed out the passable winrates myself, so I'm glad to see someone else noticed (though, so far I still think Duo would be a better option, from what I've seen).
However, I do take issue with the assertion you and Kei have made about TH170. For starters, 170 is a pretty blargh height, I barely ever use it unless I'm against another TH170 at a different height. 195 can be extremely awkward for opposing 145-height attackers, MF LLD BD145LRF had more trouble against that than any non-BD145 track in the testing I did, enough that it was a fairly safe choice, on CS or WF. 220 is, as always, out of reach for a number of lower track opponents. 230 ruled for a while with good reason.
TH170 is a balance track for sure, but it's defensive use cannot be dismissed. Even if BD145 is better in terms of pure defense, TH170's versatility can cause nightmares for attackers, as long as you know how to use it. To say it "isn't good" defensively is going too far; compared to BD145, it isn't good, but BD145 is an excellent defensive track, it's a heavy barrier of round plastic, comparing anything based on that is always going to make the other party look bad defensively.
To justify this, compare the TH170CS (defense mode) testing to the BD145CS testing. 5% different, and I'm sure you're aware that the statistical significance of that is somewhat questionable.
As for Fusion 85RB, just keep in mind that that's only one combo it does well against, and there are other more versatile combo's that can pull off similar, or better results.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Kei - Jan. 01, 2012
In my post, I was referring to TH170 on the 220-height, but I do assume Blitz didn't use that height (he didn't specify in the OP) in his tests, so I did generalize a bit too much. Saying "they're not good" was too harsh (with regards to TH170; 230 isn't good at all imo). TH170 on the 170- and 195-heights can be good, yes; especially in tandem with RDF, based on what I've been reading.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - th!nk - Jan. 01, 2012
Ahh, good. I think the main reason 220CS isn't that great is because of the impact 230 made, a significant number of popular combo's have become so because they can beat the previously ubiquitous MF-H Basalt ___230CS. That combo was powerful for long enough that it forced the entire game to shift to counter it (BD145 only exacerbated the change). Objectively, the number of things TH220 beats is great, it's just that because of how badly it mauls them that most of them die off. Much like antibiotic resistance, your antibiotic begins to look weak once the only bacteria left are resistance, even if it's killed everything else off. Doesn't change the fact that it isn't particularly useful, but saying it is "bad at killing bacteria" isn't really a fair evaluation. Of course, TH170 isn't even defensively obsolete to anything like that degree, it can still stand up to attackers, as long as it's used correctly
As I said, BD145 will always make other things look bad by comparison, but TH170 is probably the next best option.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Arupaeo - Jan. 01, 2012
I can sign on to that correction for TH170. It's versatility certainly allows it to create some additional defensive outs.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - th!nk - Jan. 01, 2012
I wish they had called it TH195, so people would by default test it at that height.
Anyway, I think we're/I'm getting sidetracked here, so I'll be quiet now
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Uwik - Jan. 01, 2012
As for the 85 RB, it's known here that low track on a rubber bottom generally does well against pure smash attacker, which in this case is VariAres. However, it generally falls under left spin attackers that utilize 'pushing' capabilities, such as MF-H LDD BD145 RF. But Fusion's rubber can be a good thing against left spinner.
As it stands now, Fusion is the only one that might potentially be good as a new upgraded version of LTDC.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Blitz - Jan. 01, 2012
Added some stamina tests and some MF Fusion Hades BD145MF tests.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Dan - Jan. 01, 2012
Sorry you had to trudge through those Stamina tests. Does SWD have any kind of use for Stamina? The BD145MF combo seems decent enough, not outstanding, but I suppose it is something.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Blitz - Jan. 01, 2012
(Jan. 01, 2012 9:06 PM)Dan Wrote: Sorry you had to trudge through those Stamina tests. Does SWD have any kind of use for Stamina? The BD145MF combo seems decent enough, not outstanding, but I suppose it is something.
I haven't really done any official testing just yet but to be honest I don't think it will be any better than WD at the moment. I'll start testing SWD tomorrow and I'll make a thread if no one beats me to it.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Dan - Jan. 01, 2012
Thanks!
I suggest you lower the number of rounds when it becomes exceedingly obvious that one Stamina combination trounces the other with no questions asked. Seriously man. The pain you must have endured.
RE: Fusion Discussion. - Blitz - Jan. 01, 2012
Indeed I should of! But the Wizard of Oz was on TV which stopped me from going insane haha!