MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer/Cygnus 85RB
Haha, my first testing thread! This custom is designed to beat Attack customs by using their own recoil and Phantom's Attack power to cause them to lose their grip on the Stadium floor, allowing Phantom to KO extremely heavy customs it normally would lose horribly to. It is similar to Scythe Uranus 85RS, but does better against Stamina, though, unfortunately, not good enough to make it a viable anti-Stamina pick.
Parts choice:
Phantom
Phantom is chosen obviously for its excellent Stamina and good Attack potential when in Attack mode. Scythe's PC Frame blocks attacks nicely, but Phantom relies on its low height and its opponent's recoil to avoid a deadly hit. Phantom is also chosen over Duo because the intent, while unusual, is to expose as much metal and Attack power as possible; Duo's low shape and smooth surface unfortunately make it unacceptable as a choice.
Cancer/Cygnus
Cancer and Cygnus are both heavy Clear Wheels that offer excellent Stamina potential on Phantom.
85
The lowest Track in existence, 85 allows Phantom to avoid the brunt of opponents' attacks, and causes their recoil to send them up and away. It also gives Phantom a good deal of stability and balance due to the low COG it provides.
RB
RB is a very strong Defense tip, and has some aggressive movement which aids in landing KOs against Stamina. It also does not have RDF's scraping issues when Force Smashed, which Phantom will have to tolerate quite a bit. It's also tall enough and re-balances quickly enough that, in my experience, Phantom has never floor scraped because of Force Smash other than at the very end of the battle, when Phantom was doomed anyways. I tried CS, but it didn't have enough Defense power. RSF is a good secondary choice if you don't have RB.
Metal Face Heavy
The MF-H gives Phantom more Defense ability and more Attack power, and dampens its own recoil.
(Sep. 25, 2013 1:40 AM)Cake Wrote: [ -> ]WOO TESTING RESULTS
I've been using MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB, since atm that's my favorite variant - don't worry, I'll do CS tomorrow.
I'm fairly sure there's a trick to get RB to move in a flower pattern, but it is not a Sliding Shoot. A regular bank causes RB to just Tornado Stall very, very slowly. Instead, RB must be banked in reverse- so that the beyblade faces away from the center, exposing RB's edge to the stadium floor. This makes it move in a quick, loose flower pattern. I'm having difficulty controlling it (it often winds up Tornado Stalling when I don't want it to, or attacks when I want it to stall) so the results aren't as good as I would like.
That is, except against Attack.
Attack testing-
vs. Wyvang Begirados CH120/CH145RF
120 height-
Wyvang wins: 5
Phantom wins: 15
Phantom win %: 75%
145 height-
Wyvang wins: 5
Phantom wins: 15
Phantom win %: 75%
While Phantom put up an impressive
75% win rate against Wyvang at both heights, I felt like it did better against 145 height - two of CH145's wins were random flukes, including one where Phantom was destabilized and ran out on its own, something that never happened again in the other 69 rounds of testing. Also, Phantom KOed Wyvang several times at that height, and seemed to do better in general. Also in CH145's favor was that the 145 testing was done second, after I had gotten a bit better at Sliding Shoot with it. Furthermore, I did everything I could to make it the
least fair for Phantom, launching Wyvang directly next to/into/onto Phantom then Wyvang was launched second. Wyvang only had a chance when it was able to hit Phantom once to knock it to the Tornado Ridge, and then immediately hit it again and out. If Phantom lived through the first few seconds, which it did often due to RB's evasive aggro movement, it was pretty much safe.
I also did informal testing with Balro as the bottom Wheel, but Balro did even worse than Wyvang against this combo - it self-KOed almost every time. BD145 Attack combos didn't do much either, because BD145 was really the only thing making contact with the extremely low Phantom.
With RB, the results against Stamina were disappointing. I still don't have RB's aggro launch down yet, so I had a lot of difficulty getting KOs consistently.
Stamina testing-
vs. Revizer Dragooon SA165EWD
Dragooon wins: 10
Phantom wins: 0
Phantom win %: 0%
This was very, very disappointing. Phantom could usually OHKO Revizer Dragooon on my aggro CS, but on RB I couldn't get it to be aggressive enough to KO consistently. Even when I did get a good hit, it wasn't as powerful as CS's were, and they didn't quite reach the edge of the stadium.
In informal testing, Phantom didn't do well against BD145RDF and SA165RDF Dragooon variants, even with Tornado Stalling. CS did quite a bit better in that regard, since RB was hard to stall properly.
vs. Death Cancer W145WD
Death wins: 12
Phantom wins: 8
Phantom win %: 40%
By this time I was quite a bit better with RB's aggro motion than I was against Dragooon, and that combined with Death's much lighter weight made it considerably easier to win against. Again CS did much better here - it walloped on Death with ease - but RB did fairly well. I certainly wouldn't choose this combo if my opponent might use Stamina, not unless I become a master with RB, but it's much better results than, say, Scythe Uranus 85RS would get. Duo would probably be more effective against Phantom, but I don't have one atm, and GuardianRevizer will never let me use his
EDIT: On a semi-related note, all 70 rounds of testing and untold numbers of informal rounds have scraped/polished my once-oxidized Phantom to the point where, along the outer edge, I can see a fuzzy refection of myself.
Revizer Dragooon SA165RDF/EWD/WD
Wyvang Dragooon BD145RDF
Revizer Killerken BD145/SA165RDF
Defense-Stamina hybrids and RDF in general
I don't entirely trust my own abilities with Attack, and I don't have two Wyvangs or Genbull, so I'd like to see some other people try this out.
Attack testing is what's most important; I'll do Defense testing later; all I've done with Defense has been informal, but fairly conclusively proved that this won't beat RDF or other Defense/Stamina hybrids.
I would love to see this in a video. Also, I would like to see some defense testing soon. It would really be great if, you did some tests with Wyvange Wyvange CH120/CH145/R2F.
Dude? Those were basically 2/4 testing he did. Plus he doesn't have two wyvangs. Can you do a video of how it does vs. stamina?
I'll do the Wyvang^2 AD145 R2F
And I will do tests VS Death Cancer W145 WD and anything else you'd like me to do
Do you think, you could do some tests against a defense type? Thanks, DrPepsidew.
Absolutely, any preferences?
Could you try, Revizer Revizer E230 RS/RB thanks.
Just going to say, Phantom has nothing against E230. It will lose, guaranteed. BTW I will try to get a video as soon as I can. BTW Duo Stamina testing, especially with SA165, would be appreciated.
Please change the Track to a part like, GB145/AD145/BD145.
Ooooooh... must resist urge to TEST!!!
This seems a bit srange... Phantom for defense? Lord knows that would be interesting. XD Can't wait for more testing...
Well 100% 10/10 against Revizer^2 E230 (Upper) RS. Reason being how sharp RS is, easy to topple over. All OS
VS Death Cancer W145 WD 50% Phantom: 6 KO 4 OS. Death: All OS
VS Wyvang^2 AD145 R2F 60% Phantom: 1 KO 12 OS. Wyvang^2: 8 KO
Thanks for the results DrPepsidew. Nice looking results.
Yay, we didn't get completely different results! woohooo my testing is valid!
I honestly expected Phantom wouldn't do as well against Attack when others tested it, but 60 percent against Wyvang isn't too shabby either.
I'll probably do Balro tests for comparison, and I may want to re-do the Wyvang tests now that my new RF is worn in; I'll also put in a benchmark.
HOLY SLUDGE BUCKETS!!! 60%??? Testing time.
EDIT: Results!!!
MF-H Phantom Cancer 85RB vs. Wyvang Wyvang W145R2F
Phantom launched first on all launches. Pretty darn new RB, worn R2F (
)
Cancer: wins, 4/10 (All OS)
Wyvang: wins, 6/10 (3 KO, 3 OS)
MF-H Phantom Cancer 85RB win rate:
40%
Disregard Wyvang's out-spins.... that absolutely would not have happened with a good R2F. They were nail-bitingly close... WOW this thing is cool. Wyvang kept just slipping off Phantom's sloped ridge whenever it made contact. The only time it could KO is if Phantom glided up the tornado ridge and Wyvang hit from inside.
TBH, I definitely wouldn't pick this over Scythe (Scythe 85RB people, boss), but it's definitely viable. If you don't own scythe then would definitely be a cool idea IMO.
Dude, I love this combo!! It is so nice to see something so fresh and unique after so long
Thank you for explaining the launch; that's an interesting technique, and I'll need to try that from now on with any RB customs I goof around with.
The test results were pretty darn cool! Like TBD said, if I was looking for a pure Syncrom-defeating defense custom I'd still probably want to go with Scythe, but the fact that this can hold its own against non-attack customs too is a welcome sight.
I like your use of RB after hearing about your launch, but have you tried RSF (or CS, which it sounded like you wanted to do anyway)? Those tips aren't as agressive as RB (which might be a deal breaker), but they are noticeably shorter.
I'm looking forward to testing this out!! Awesome stuff bro
I noticed that Phantom really only got KOed when it was already far out, too; an older, more aggro/flatter RB would probably do better, IDK. Still, it's an interesting combo!
BTW I'm working on the video. I also think RSF might do well with this, because of the additional aggro movement; I also informally tried MB and that doesn't work well at all... it got KOed really, really easily.
EDIT: ah lol hi Ingulit
I tried CS, but unfortunately CS doesn't have the Defense power to properly resist KOs; however, it did much better at avoiding attacks and KOing Stamina. I actually have testing on CS, too.
(Sep. 27, 2013 1:20 AM)Cake Wrote: [ -> ]MOAR RESULTS-
Same customs as before. My RF is getting worn out, particularly after the last round of testing, and my new one isn't conditioned yet, so I'm still using the old one so my numbers may be a bit skewed in Phantom's favor here.
CS performed much more admirably against Stamina than RB, but did a lot worse against Attack. However, I'm just not that great with CS, so I had difficulty against Stamina - half of the wins by Death were from accidental Tornado Stalling or Wall Saves. Revizer Dragoon was still hard to KO, despite CS's aggro movement; it's just too heavy and Phantom is too low to get good metal-on-metal contact with SA165 in the way.
Vs. Attack:
Wyvang Begirados CH120/145RF
120 height:
Wyvang wins: 10
Phantom wins: 10
Phantom %: 50%
145 height:
Wyvang wins: 10
Phantom wins: 10
Phantom %: 50%
Phantom did not do well against Wyvang. It only won when it could avoid hard hits from Wyvang through its aggressive movement, and these results are with a worn RF. Phantom simply would not have survived if RF was in top condition. I wouldn't choose Attack against this custom, but nor would I choose this customs against Attack. Phantom did get some impressive KOs though, (yes KOs lol) using Wyvang's recoil and its own Upper Smash to launch Wyvang out of the stadium several times.
Revizer Dragooon SA165EWD
Revizer wins: 8
Phantom wins: 2
Phantom win %: 20%
I immediately saw how this was going to go... Revizer is so heavy and SA165 gets in the way too much, so Phantom really didn't have much of a chance. Sometimes I nearly got a KO, and I expect someone more adept with Attack than I am could get much better results here.
Death Cancer W145WD
Death wins: 10
Phantom wins: 10
Phantom win %: 50%
I expected better than this, honestly. The main issue was my CS's uncontrollable aggro movement; I really couldn't get it to maintain a flower pattern for any length of time. Death got KOed often, but if Phantom Tornado Stalled (which also happened often) it was pretty much over. However, unlike on RB, Phantom managed to destabilize the Hades Kerbecs out of Death several times, and won by causing Death to floor scrape massively, even flipping it over completely once. Again, a more Attack-gifted blader could probably get much better results here.
And, unfortunately, I don't have RSF... I have a friend with three though lol I'll see if I can trade for one.
This combo is really good. I would like to see the RSF tests It might be interesting to see. Yes, a video would be great! Also i would like to try one more attack combo if that's ok with you?
EDIT: Please try trade I would love to see RSF on this combo.
I have become obsessed with this combo...
I agree with Striker Phantom, I absolutely love this combo right now.
I shall have tests up for you soon!
I've used this combo myself in the past. It's very nice for balance, but it's utterly crushed by left spin. RB is aggro enough to get something like Phantom stamina out of the arena, but not nearly enough to handle left-spin. Duo can also put up a very nice fight.
It acts like a defensive hybrid, as I'm sure many have noticed here with testing. I personally prefer Scythe because it has less recoil and better defense to counter what really hits hardest. Very nice tests though.
Wow, this combo seems pretty viable! I wish I had an RB to test this :\.
I tried MB, and it got KOed very easily. I tried RSF and I really liked it. It did better with RSF than RS and CS from what I tested.
(Sep. 30, 2013 8:59 PM)Tri Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, this combo seems pretty viable! I wish I had an RB to test this :\.
I tried MB, and it got KOed very easily. I tried RSF and I really liked it. It did better with RSF than RS and CS from what I tested.
RS has less surface area than RSF, and because the combo has to be launched into a reverse bank, RS won't work so good...MB, despite having heavy weight, has too little friction. CS doesn't have much friction either...so, yeah.
RSF is the best alternative to RB; RS doesn't have aggro motion and gets destabilized way too easily; CS would work beautifully if it had more Defense, but it doesn't.
Phantom,
I know ...
I was testing it on other bottoms to see if I got similar results ...
Try testing against destabilizers.