Jul. 12, 2013 1:44 AM
Hey guys! I've been on this site for a few months now, and I must say I'm impressed by the amount of information available here. I must say that I have improved a TON since joining this site... But there are a couple things that confuse me.
One of them is... What ever happened to low-track attack combos?
In my experience, and from these tests, I would like to make the argument that lower track combos can produce significantly higher, more stable smash than higher tracks.
Here are the pros and cons of taller vs. shorter tracks as I see them...
Tall Tracks:
Pros:
Ability to connect with much taller combinations, such as E230/SP230 defense combos
Cons:
Lower smash
Lower speed
Short tracks:
Pros:
Higher smash
Higher speed
Cons:
Inability to connect with taller combinations, such as E230/SP230 defense combos.
NOT BD145 combos.
Controversy over pros and cons of LTAC's:
Probably the biggest controversy over the ability of LTAC's to perform competitively, is the issue of consistent metal-to-metal connection with BD145 defense combos. The popular idea seems to be that LTAC's are unable to make solid hits against BD145.
In my experience, this is simply not true, except maybe from select cases with low-protruding attack wheels such as flash on tracks like 85. The video below is from my Gryph Begaridos 105RF thread. In the video, you can clearly see that the attack combo is making consistent contact with the BD145 defense type, even as the defense type is on CS, a very tall bottom as defensive tips go.
In conclusion, the idea that BD145 completely blocks out attacks from LTAC's is, without a doubt, untrue.
Meow! loved this combination and we talked via PM over potential changes to the combo. He stated that the combo consistently took down top-tier BD145 defensive combos using as short a track as 85, the shortest height available in beyblade today.
Therefore, LTAC's can consitently make metal-to-metal contact with BD145 defense combinations.
Testing:
Vs. BD145:
Gryph Balro 145RF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 10/10 (8 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 10/10 (1 KO, 9 OS)
145 height win rate: 50%
Gryph Balro GB145RF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 10/10 (8 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 10/10 (1 KO, 9 OS)
GB145 win rate: 50%
Gryph Balro 105RF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 14/20 (12 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 6/20 (All OS)
105 height win rate: 70%
There you have it. 105 came out with a 20% lead in KOs. That's pretty huge. While I'm not saying that 145 height attackers are useless against BD145 defense combos, I do think lower-track combinations are more effective to an extent. I also found it odd that 145 and GB145 ended up with literally the exact same results
Vs. E230:
Gryph Balro 145RF vs. Reviser Reviser E230RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 20/20 (8 KO, 12 OS)
Reviser: wins, 0/20
145 height win rate: 100%
Gryph Balro GB145RF vs. Reviser Reviser E230RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 19/20 (8 KO, 11 OS)
Reviser: wins, 0/20
GB145 win rate: 95%
Gryph Balro 105RF vs. Reviser Reviser E230RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 19/20 (4 KO, 15 OS)
Reviser: wins, 1/20 (1 OS)
105 height win rate: 95%
The reason all 3 beys were able to OS so well is probably because I used RF. Other than that, I don't know why.
Some things I'd like to point out...
1) The reason these beys hit such unusually high KO rates against E230 is due to balro, which is basically an E230 killer. Wyvang will only hit a 15% win rate against E230 at a 145 height, and only 5% win rate against it on 105.
3) As you can see, a 145 height bey leads in KOs by 20% against E230 in comparison to a shorter height.
Vs. 230:
Gryph Balro GB145RF vs. Duo Aquario 230CS
Duo launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 12/20 (9 KO, 3 OS)
Aquario: wins, 8/20 (All OS)
GB145 win rate: 60%
Gryph Balro 105RF vs. Duo Aquario 230CS
Duo launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 13/20 (12 KO, 1 OS)
Aquario: wins, 7/20 (All OS)
105 win rate: 65%
As you can see, 105 took a 15% lead in KOs this time. As long as it could hit duo, it hit harder than GB145. Only about 1/4 of these KOs were from hitting underneath. The other times it just hit really low, but nonetheless it still hit the side of the metal wheel, rather than underneath.
Gryph Balro GB145RF vs. Reviser Reviser 230CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 12/20 (6 KO, 6 OS)
Reviser: wins, 8/20 (All OS)
GB145 win rate: 60%
Gryph Balro 105RF vs. Reviser Reviser 230CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 14/20 (12 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 8/20 (All OS)
105 win rate: 70%
As you can see, 105 outdid GB145 in these tests. Reviser is a considerably think wheel, so it did protrude down on the track. Probably 1/2 of these KOs were made with a hit underneath. Reviser and most chrome wheels have gaps all over the top and bottom, which are easy to grab onto. In one instance, Balro actually hit underneath and lifted Reviser over a wall in the BB-10.
After these tests, I think we can conclude that synchrome LTAC's don't have much of a problem with 230... just E/SP230
In conclusion, I am in absolutely no way saying that high-track attack combos aren't competetive. That would be crazy. However, I think LTAC's are very, very effective, and I think they should become more open to testing.
... In my humble opinion.
One of them is... What ever happened to low-track attack combos?
In my experience, and from these tests, I would like to make the argument that lower track combos can produce significantly higher, more stable smash than higher tracks.
Here are the pros and cons of taller vs. shorter tracks as I see them...
Tall Tracks:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Pros:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Ability to connect with much taller combinations, such as E230/SP230 defense combos
Cons:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Lower smash
Lower speed
Short tracks:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Pros:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Higher smash
Higher speed
Cons:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Inability to connect with taller combinations, such as E230/SP230 defense combos.
NOT BD145 combos.
Controversy over pros and cons of LTAC's:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Probably the biggest controversy over the ability of LTAC's to perform competitively, is the issue of consistent metal-to-metal connection with BD145 defense combos. The popular idea seems to be that LTAC's are unable to make solid hits against BD145.
In my experience, this is simply not true, except maybe from select cases with low-protruding attack wheels such as flash on tracks like 85. The video below is from my Gryph Begaridos 105RF thread. In the video, you can clearly see that the attack combo is making consistent contact with the BD145 defense type, even as the defense type is on CS, a very tall bottom as defensive tips go.
In conclusion, the idea that BD145 completely blocks out attacks from LTAC's is, without a doubt, untrue.
Meow! loved this combination and we talked via PM over potential changes to the combo. He stated that the combo consistently took down top-tier BD145 defensive combos using as short a track as 85, the shortest height available in beyblade today.
Therefore, LTAC's can consitently make metal-to-metal contact with BD145 defense combinations.
Testing:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Vs. BD145:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Gryph Balro 145RF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 10/10 (8 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 10/10 (1 KO, 9 OS)
145 height win rate: 50%
Gryph Balro GB145RF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 10/10 (8 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 10/10 (1 KO, 9 OS)
GB145 win rate: 50%
Gryph Balro 105RF vs. Reviser Reviser BD145CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 14/20 (12 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 6/20 (All OS)
105 height win rate: 70%
There you have it. 105 came out with a 20% lead in KOs. That's pretty huge. While I'm not saying that 145 height attackers are useless against BD145 defense combos, I do think lower-track combinations are more effective to an extent. I also found it odd that 145 and GB145 ended up with literally the exact same results
Vs. E230:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Gryph Balro 145RF vs. Reviser Reviser E230RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 20/20 (8 KO, 12 OS)
Reviser: wins, 0/20
145 height win rate: 100%
Gryph Balro GB145RF vs. Reviser Reviser E230RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 19/20 (8 KO, 11 OS)
Reviser: wins, 0/20
GB145 win rate: 95%
Gryph Balro 105RF vs. Reviser Reviser E230RDF
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 19/20 (4 KO, 15 OS)
Reviser: wins, 1/20 (1 OS)
105 height win rate: 95%
The reason all 3 beys were able to OS so well is probably because I used RF. Other than that, I don't know why.
Some things I'd like to point out...
1) The reason these beys hit such unusually high KO rates against E230 is due to balro, which is basically an E230 killer. Wyvang will only hit a 15% win rate against E230 at a 145 height, and only 5% win rate against it on 105.
3) As you can see, a 145 height bey leads in KOs by 20% against E230 in comparison to a shorter height.
Vs. 230:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Gryph Balro GB145RF vs. Duo Aquario 230CS
Duo launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 12/20 (9 KO, 3 OS)
Aquario: wins, 8/20 (All OS)
GB145 win rate: 60%
Gryph Balro 105RF vs. Duo Aquario 230CS
Duo launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 13/20 (12 KO, 1 OS)
Aquario: wins, 7/20 (All OS)
105 win rate: 65%
As you can see, 105 took a 15% lead in KOs this time. As long as it could hit duo, it hit harder than GB145. Only about 1/4 of these KOs were from hitting underneath. The other times it just hit really low, but nonetheless it still hit the side of the metal wheel, rather than underneath.
Gryph Balro GB145RF vs. Reviser Reviser 230CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 12/20 (6 KO, 6 OS)
Reviser: wins, 8/20 (All OS)
GB145 win rate: 60%
Gryph Balro 105RF vs. Reviser Reviser 230CS
Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 14/20 (12 KO, 2 OS)
Reviser: wins, 8/20 (All OS)
105 win rate: 70%
As you can see, 105 outdid GB145 in these tests. Reviser is a considerably think wheel, so it did protrude down on the track. Probably 1/2 of these KOs were made with a hit underneath. Reviser and most chrome wheels have gaps all over the top and bottom, which are easy to grab onto. In one instance, Balro actually hit underneath and lifted Reviser over a wall in the BB-10.
After these tests, I think we can conclude that synchrome LTAC's don't have much of a problem with 230... just E/SP230
In conclusion, I am in absolutely no way saying that high-track attack combos aren't competetive. That would be crazy. However, I think LTAC's are very, very effective, and I think they should become more open to testing.
... In my humble opinion.