3-dog, I'm not really here to debate economic philosophy, but supply and demand are equal parts in establishing price condition. To argue that buyers should ALWAYS control a market is as extreme as saying sellers should always control a market. Really its' scarcity that controls a market. Scarcity (or abundance) can wax and wane, and with it so follows potential buyers.
It's really not relevant here though. Groups of buyers have power when a commodity is not extremely scarce. When something IS scarce, a rogue buyer (with money to burn) will always show up and piss all over the little guys. When one of us (little guys) is lucky enough to get our hands on that scarce item...well I'd bet most of us are going to try and get whatever we can.
I had a chuckle wondering if you're Dragoon V2 is priced "...to encourage play..."
There's only one Mona Lisa - we can protest all we want that it should be priced so anyone could afford it, but it's not going to happen. Yes, I believe I did just compare a beyblade to the world's most famous painting...a work of DaVinci no less!
ah well...
(Mar. 21, 2013 10:48 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: [ -> ]Munsoned Wrote:I don't think this one transaction will set the new price floor for shining god.
IDK if you heard about the Dragoon G situation, but here it is:
1 seller, only 1, I repeat, only 1, set the price for Dragoon G around $50, bumping it up to $62 before he ended it. This caused almost all of the Dragoon G's on the market to inflate to at least $45, when it is still only worth $10. Even the cheapest ones are around $18. The seller even had a couple sales.
So yes, one transaction or even listing without selling can inflate the market for Dragoon G.
I'm selling SonoKong Dragoon G's for $7.25, so maybe I can have a hand in reversing it. The funny thing is I've had it listed for a week and not sold a single one!
That is great of you, and I thank you, but still, it would take a bunch of listings and a bunch of sales to bring the price down.
If you don't want to debate economic philosophies with me, I suggest you educate yourself on monopolies and oligopolies as examples of market failure. Scarcity does nothing without demand. Sure, Shining God has demand behind it, but it's very price elastic. There are barely a handful of buyers who will pay $350 for it but, due to scarcity, that sale sets a price for others. The selling community thrives on imitating the prices of competitors, as Ginga pointed out.
You are free to sell your beys at whatever exorbitant fees you choose, but I'd advise you to not come in here justifying it. You're not going to get far, especially not when the current project of the moment focuses on reducing inflated plastics and hms prices.
As for your analogy, the art collector community isn't composed primarily of children.
(Mar. 21, 2013 10:49 PM)Munsoned Wrote: [ -> ]I'm selling SonoKong Dragoon G's for $7.25, so maybe I can have a hand in reversing it. The funny thing is I've had it listed for a week and not sold a single one!
You should allow worldwide shipping ... I've noticed only a few of your listings are available to worldwide buyers; especially the large and expensive ones.
(Mar. 21, 2013 7:41 PM)Ultra Wrote: [ -> ] (Mar. 21, 2013 7:27 PM)BeyderAndy Wrote: [ -> ]If you set a price for each toy and put limits on them. It will disappoint a lot of people like me. Why would I bother to spent money on it if I know it will never get into what I want it to be?
It will drive away many people in the community, and we don't want this happen.
Cheaper prices is not always better, I prefer Diamond over Glasses. If you know what I mean.
Anyway, I have my principles, you have yours, I let the market settle it between us.
So essentially you're complaining that you're not getting the high prices that screw over pretty much everyone. Great. I really doubt it will man. Realistically cheaper prices mean will more people will buy.
I'm not complaining, you are the one who is complaining. I'm simply explaining how stuff is suppose to work.
Collectors and speculators do mix, btw.
(Mar. 21, 2013 11:16 PM)BeyderAndy Wrote: [ -> ] (Mar. 21, 2013 7:41 PM)Ultra Wrote: [ -> ] (Mar. 21, 2013 7:27 PM)BeyderAndy Wrote: [ -> ]If you set a price for each toy and put limits on them. It will disappoint a lot of people like me. Why would I bother to spent money on it if I know it will never get into what I want it to be?
It will drive away many people in the community, and we don't want this happen.
Cheaper prices is not always better, I prefer Diamond over Glasses. If you know what I mean.
Anyway, I have my principles, you have yours, I let the market settle it between us.
So essentially you're complaining that you're not getting the high prices that screw over pretty much everyone. Great. I really doubt it will man. Realistically cheaper prices mean will more people will buy.
I'm not complaining, you are the one who is complaining. I'm simply explaining how stuff is suppose to work.
Collectors and speculators do mix, btw.
Looked like you were complaining to me. I'm not. I'm giving you the facts. Yes lets all bow down to your opinion on how this is supposed to work even though your way is broken as hell.
Munsoned, you make a lot of sense man. Unfortunately many bullies here don't get it.
(Mar. 21, 2013 11:20 PM)BeyderAndy Wrote: [ -> ]Munsoned, you make a lot of sense man. Unfortunately many bullies here don't get it.
No he doesn't. Bullies? We're trying to sort the market out whereas you're perfectly happy being greedy and not caring that it screws it up. Yeah clearly we're the ones in the wrong here...
Honestly, anyone that thinks there is nothing wrong with selling a spinning top at over 40 times its original retail price is extremely greedy, even if they bought it for more than that. Obviously Munsoned payed less than $150 for the Shining God, otherwise he probably wouldn't have started the auction there. Then he sold it for $350, which absolutely ruins the market, end of discussion. Imagine if MFB prices went from $15 to $45. No one would play.
What's funny is how BeyAnder says he prefers 'diamond over glasses'. Shining God is still Shining God, whether it is $1000 or $10. Jacking up the price doesn't make it any more intrinsically valuable. It just leads to needless inflation.
This market can be very profitable to sellers, but most are too short-sighted to understand that low price + high sales> high price + very low sales.
Edit: Well I'm glad that you guys are taking a stand against this kind of behaviour. If we could extend this manner of thinking, plastics and HMS wouldn't be dead.
BeyderAndy, you do not understand. Average people, like many of us on the WBO, have been scrounging forever for beyblades for collection (see Shining God/Dragoon MSUV). When people like Munsoned among others price it at $300, when it is worth $150 do not buy it, because they are looking for the actual prices that are worth it. When 1 person spikes up the price, all spike up the price, seeking money. So, again, average people who do not have $350 to spend willy-nilly will never be able to get the beyblades they want.
Munsoned, art in general is a special case, as only one authentic piece is made, unlike Shining God MS.
The whole market for HMS in general kinda pisses me off, and you Munsoned are not helping in any way.
EDIT: Well said 3-Dog and ShinobuXD.
I see it the other way around. If someone put a very rear beyblade out there and sold it lets say for a million bucks. This will be all over the internet, in your local news etc..
Imagine how will this help the community, and this will help you who have been collecting this stuff for a long time now.
and I see those who are controlling the prices, keeping it low are stopping beyblade at it's full potential.
Me, I'm willing to spent a lot of money on this. I'm actually jacking up the prices in many auctions in Ebay, bidding over there and another person bidding higher and so, I actually see an item with over $500, and I was involve in the bidding.
how do you not get it i don't understand
OK, all over the internet. But no one will sell a beyblade for 1 million dollars. Secondly, people see profit in 1 million dollars. If multiple people had that beyblade, they would all sell it for 1 million dollars.
Maybe the WBO and beyblade get attention from it.
How the hell would it help collectors???
NOBODY would spend what is in some cases their life savings/10 years worth of earned money on just a beyblade alone ...
Please god be quiet. How does making prices low stop it's potential?! That's exactly the flipping opposite.
Why do you want to make people spend more money? That's just dumb. How does it help anyone except sellers, who take advantage of that and raise the prices.
EDIT: Whoops, forgot to log out of my brothers account. This is ShinobuXD.
(Mar. 21, 2013 11:44 PM)BeyderAndy Wrote: [ -> ]I'm actually jacking up the prices in many auctions in Ebay, bidding over there and another person bidding higher and so, I actually see an item with over $500, and I was involve in the bidding.
And that is the problem with the market. People like you ENJOY jacking up prices, ENJOY what is essentially seeing a collector who had a great opportunity to get a beyblade for a reasonable price get outbid for fun.
Wow, BeyderAndy, I must admit that your messages give off an incredibly greedy impression. No one here or anywhere else for that matter could comprehend why you do not understand that seeing a Beyblade over a hundred dollars absolutely discourages fans from investing into this hobby. Sure, we are not really paying that much attention to the following philosophy here ourselves, but have you completely forgotten that Beyblade's audience is generally comprised of kids, teenagers, or very young adults. If you have a salary that permits hundred-dollar expenses, cool for you, but the actual majority of the Beyblade fans does not, and by the time they can spend that, the impossibility to start a good collection of plastics or HMS will have discouraged them severely already.
This hobby is not at all made for adults with a huge salary. And no, nobody will care enough to make a news article about an absurd aberration spinning top that sold for a million dollars; that is in fact just a sick fantasy someone could have ...
whoa whoa guys this is a site for the common hobby of plastic spinning tops in which you can post pretty much anything related to the hobby in various forums. this particular forum is about products you find on ebay
no need to make it into a flame war
I'm sure if this needed to be moderated, Kai-V would have said so already ...
(Mar. 22, 2013 12:12 AM)xshaman-kingx Wrote: [ -> ]whoa whoa guys this is a site for the common hobby of plastic spinning tops in which you can post pretty much anything related to the hobby in various forums. this particular forum is about products you find on ebay
no need to make it into a flame war
There is a huge problem when someone does not at all see the benefits of this thought : "Hey, I found it first, paid maximum fifty dollars, it's cool for my wallet; next time, that might happen to you, it'll just be fair for everyone".
How can you say I'm greedy, you don't even know me.
I got it, you are still not on the working age, and you will understand my point of view once you are paying bills.
And you guys are lucky cause when I was still at school, my parents never give me money to buy toys, I only get it on my birthday and christmas.
It's you who has no idea who you're talking to, because Kai-v is of the working age, hah.
She doesn't have to know you to understand what's given off by your comments. I'm pretty sure she has a job.
No, I am working myself, and like many others, I am also at university full time. I have a lot of self-earned money, but I would never "jack up the prices" or think that "jack up" can be a good expression at all. I have been in the Beyblade community for a whole decade now, and I have truly never encountered someone like you. I think even jyunseiya from back in 2005 was not nearly as bad as you describe yourself to be ...
How can you even believe that, when paying bills, it could ever be a good thing to pay way more than the actual value of a spinning top ? You have even less money from paying bills, this should not at all be your logic hahah.
Yeah Kai-V is is college IIRC, so she has to pay bills and pay for an education. In fact, many of the people you have been contradicting are "of the working age", so I think they know what they're talking about.
Edit: Ugh... keep forgetting to log out of my brother's account. ShinobuXD again.