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+--- Thread: To Rethink Stamina (/Thread-To-Rethink-Stamina)
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Hazel - Oct. 29, 2011
(Oct. 29, 2011 5:02 AM)Caststarman Wrote:(Oct. 28, 2011 10:28 PM)Mr. N Wrote: What stadium did you use? Also, could you swap the clear wheels and nothing else since different molds, wear etc. could affect the results.
Its all hasbro, and the travel stadium
I do not recall these being valid testing components.
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Uwik - Oct. 29, 2011
(Oct. 29, 2011 4:45 AM)Hero Wrote:(Oct. 28, 2011 10:09 PM)th!nk Wrote: As for Basalt Kerbecs, Hero and I found that the opposite orientation to the one shown in my CW thread seemed to give better solo spin time on TH170WF (though it was only a few trials), yet the opposite way worked far far better in battle. Basalt, due to it's imbalanced form, reacts somewhat unpredictably to different CW's, methinks.
gibsonmac, did you read this? I've already tested this. Although one orientation of Kerbecs fitted on Basalt gave more solo spin time it was less effective. I've tested against several combos and found that the side that offered more solo spin lost to them, however, when I re-positioned it to the opposite orientation (the one th!nk mentioned as superior) it gave our combo a few extra spins to OS those exact same combos. I feel that solo spin is not a great indicator of superior stamina.
This. I found this out the hard way in a tournament situation. Hell Beafowl gives 10-20 extra seconds of Solo Spin, but it performed worse in comparison to Hell Kerbecs in battle situations.
Your solo spin theory is a great for knowledge sake (when proven true), and it would be even better if it's applicable in battles. Perhaps some battle results soon?
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Kai-V - Oct. 29, 2011
And we also need data from a lot of other people to validate the solo spin times posted anyway.
Furthermore, as I surely mentioned at least once, so Killer Gemios will have a better solo spin time than Killer Bull ?
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Uwik - Oct. 29, 2011
Maybe a little tweak to your theory would be good.
Instead of saying CW that weigh certain weights are great when paired with MW that weigh certain weights. This will spark arguments since the variables would be too great.
My proposal would be based on the MW:
Isolate the MW first, then do tests with various CW. then summarize it by saying "This MW is great when the total weight paired with a CW is ??? grams" Then move on to the next MW.
Heck, you can have a table data for the best suitable pairs, example:
Phantom + CW = from 00 grams to 00 grams (This will be best for stamina combinations)
Basalt + CW = from 00 grams to 00 grams (This will be best for stamina combinations)
etc etc
RE: To Rethink Stamina - gibsonmac - Oct. 29, 2011
(Oct. 29, 2011 5:07 AM)Kai-V Wrote: And we also need data from a lot of other people to validate the solo spin times posted anyway.
Furthermore, as I surely mentioned at least once, so Killer Gemios will have a better solo spin time than Killer Bull ?
According to the theory, it seems, it would depend on what spintrack, tip, and face you have chosen that would ultimately determine what CW would be better on killer... the whole ratio of the 3 portions, which now seems to be revised to be increasingly heavier as you go outward... it may not be practical for all situations, but definitely some... and we have to remember he is talking about more than just CW choice, but track, tip, and face as well based on weight of each part as it relates to the portions/ratio...
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Uwik - Oct. 29, 2011
(Oct. 29, 2011 5:27 AM)gibsonmac Wrote:(Oct. 29, 2011 5:07 AM)Kai-V Wrote: And we also need data from a lot of other people to validate the solo spin times posted anyway.
Furthermore, as I surely mentioned at least once, so Killer Gemios will have a better solo spin time than Killer Bull ?
According to the theory, it seems, it would depend on what spintrack, tip, and face you have chosen that would ultimately determine what CW would be better on killer... the whole ratio of the 3 portions, which now seems to be revised to be increasingly heavier as you go outward... it may not be practical for all situations, but definitely some... and we have to remember he is talking about more than just CW choice, but track, tip, and face as well based on weight of each part as it relates to the portions/ratio...
Her question was actually basic
Is Killer Gemios (145 D) better than Killer Bull (145 D) ?
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Hero - Oct. 29, 2011
(Oct. 29, 2011 5:28 AM)Uwik Wrote: Her question was actually basic
Is Killer Gemios (145 D) better than Killer Bull (145 D) ?
That certainly must be the case since Killer Gemios 145D has a longer solo spin.
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Uwik - Oct. 29, 2011
(Oct. 29, 2011 5:31 AM)Hero Wrote:(Oct. 29, 2011 5:28 AM)Uwik Wrote: Her question was actually basic
Is Killer Gemios (145 D) better than Killer Bull (145 D) ?
That certainly must be the case since Killer Gemios 145D has a longer solo spin.
Does it really? I must have missed the result's post.
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Hero - Oct. 29, 2011
(Oct. 29, 2011 5:36 AM)Uwik Wrote:(Oct. 29, 2011 5:31 AM)Hero Wrote:(Oct. 29, 2011 5:28 AM)Uwik Wrote: Her question was actually basic
Is Killer Gemios (145 D) better than Killer Bull (145 D) ?
That certainly must be the case since Killer Gemios 145D has a longer solo spin.
Does it really? I must have missed the result's post.
Totally. Better solo spin = better battle performance
/endsarcasm
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Uwik - Oct. 29, 2011
Hahaha, I wasn't sure whether to lol or take you seriously with your posts...
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Mc Frown - Oct. 29, 2011
your solo spin results suck
why are they so low
Mc Frown's solo spin stamina theory:
Rock Bull/Phantom Orion
90MS/B:D
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Dan - Oct. 29, 2011
MS? what about Rock Bull/Cancer 85/90EDS!!!!!
B:D: dat wobble.
RE: To Rethink Stamina - ControL_ - Oct. 29, 2011
The reason why I hate this theory so much is because solo spins means near nothing when two pieces of metal spinning at 6000RPM each collide...
Even if Cancer gets a higher solo spin time than Bull, in battle you definitely have not comprehended how they react in battle with different shifts of weight, how it reacts when head on, how the weight distribution can benefit so much more when contact is made, as opposed to solo spins.
Phantom B: D can spin for 7 minutes, MF Basalt Kerbecs 230CS can spin for 2 minutes.
Basalt can draw or even win. Based on solo spins, which is what this entire thread is based on, Phanto B: D's portions and whatever should mean it will win in stamina battles?
This thread title is incorrect, it is in fact:
To Rethink Solo Spin Times.
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Deikailo - Oct. 29, 2011
Stamina means to outspin. Obviously, you need some element of attack and defense to OS, but as far as Othellog's stamina explanation is concerned, yes, his points are accurate. However, you cannot have a pure stamina blade in this game. There has to be some element of defense and attack in a stamina combo in order for it to actually become a competitive choice.
This is not a message in saying "all of this information is necessary to create the ultimate stamina combo". No. This topic is designed to discuss the elements of stamina and what design would be ideal. This can help a novice blader assume what makes a stamina combo before actually testing. It's a great way for people who do not have tournament experience nor all of the parts to identify combinations by their designs, not by individual information on this forum.
You guys are pathetic if you'll just argue on anything that isn't posted by Dan, Arupaeo, Kei, or Yamislayer. Why not actually look for the truth in what he's saying? Geeze.
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Dan - Oct. 29, 2011
I wasn't against this topic, really, I just refuse to believe a 0.3 gram difference between Clear Wheels could translate into an entire minute difference in solo-spin..
Earth Bull 85/145WD vs. Earth Cancer 85/145WD.
Solo-spin is not the way to go if you're trying to make a point about competitively viable stamina combinations.
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Deikailo - Oct. 29, 2011
Then stop complaining and do the tests yourself. We've been through this before.
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Dan - Oct. 29, 2011
Speaking of stuff we've been through; you know I can't right now..
Or I would have earlier, obviously.
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Deikailo - Oct. 29, 2011
Then ask someone else you trust to do it.
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Dan - Oct. 29, 2011
I was asking you, or basically anyone else here willing to validate the tests.. :V
RE: To Rethink Stamina - ControL_ - Oct. 29, 2011
I'm doing some solo spin times, and so far:
I have established that... BeyJun's first pull for MF-L Burn Bull 145WD was 3min 08sec! Immediately betters my first (not my best pull of 3min 02sec). So BeyJun goes and tell dad that he beats my solo spin time and my dad just laughs at how I should quit beyblading....
An average for Cancer and Bull to be posted very soon, just one more test to be done.
My first 100% pull (kneeling) was 3min28sec.
EDIT w/ times:
MF-L Burn Bull 145WD average: 3 min 28.5 secs
BeyJun’s average (two attempts only): 3 min 01 secs
--
MF-L Burn Cancer 145WD average: 3 min 21 secs
BeyJun’s attempt (one attempt only): 2 min 49 secs
RE: To Rethink Stamina - othellog - Oct. 29, 2011
(Oct. 29, 2011 10:03 PM)ControL_ Wrote: I'm doing some solo spin times, and so far:Damn dude, that's pretty good.
I have established that... BeyJun's first pull for MF-L Burn Bull 145WD was 3min 08sec! Immediately betters my first (not my best pull of 3min 02sec). So BeyJun goes and tell dad that he beats my solo spin time and my dad just laughs at how I should quit beyblading....
An average for Cancer and Bull to be posted very soon, just one more test to be done.
My first 100% pull (kneeling) was 3min28sec.
Btw, one of Phantom Orion's reached 6 minutes.
(Oct. 29, 2011 8:11 PM)ControL_ Wrote: The reason why I hate this theory so much is because solo spins means near nothing when two pieces of metal spinning at 6000RPM each collide...Yup, what you say is true. So, I'll have too more 1 on 1 testing, as I've already said.
Even if Cancer gets a higher solo spin time than Bull, in battle you definitely have not comprehended how they react in battle with different shifts of weight, how it reacts when head on, how the weight distribution can benefit so much more when contact is made, as opposed to solo spins.
Phantom B: D can spin for 7 minutes, MF Basalt Kerbecs 230CS can spin for 2 minutes.
Basalt can draw or even win. Based on solo spins, which is what this entire thread is based on, Phanto B: D's portions and whatever should mean it will win in stamina battles?
This thread title is incorrect, it is in fact:
To Rethink Solo Spin Times.
But, I did some Basalt B: D vs Scythe B: D testing.(Both A1 molds.)
But, they one broke 6 mins and the other one spins for about 5:30.
RE: To Rethink Stamina - ControL_ - Oct. 29, 2011
(Oct. 29, 2011 10:10 PM)othellog Wrote:The slight variations in strength multiplies at the end of the battle, with the possibility of variation of 10 or so rotations at the end of the battle. Make sure that person is of equal strength, and look at the results I got....(Oct. 29, 2011 10:03 PM)ControL_ Wrote: I'm doing some solo spin times, and so far:Damn dude, that's pretty good.
I have established that... BeyJun's first pull for MF-L Burn Bull 145WD was 3min 08sec! Immediately betters my first (not my best pull of 3min 02sec). So BeyJun goes and tell dad that he beats my solo spin time and my dad just laughs at how I should quit beyblading....
An average for Cancer and Bull to be posted very soon, just one more test to be done.
My first 100% pull (kneeling) was 3min28sec.
Btw, one of Phantom Orion's reached 6 minutes.
(Oct. 29, 2011 8:11 PM)ControL_ Wrote: The reason why I hate this theory so much is because solo spins means near nothing when two pieces of metal spinning at 6000RPM each collide...Yup, what you say is true. So, I'll have too more 1 on 1 testing, as I've already said.
Even if Cancer gets a higher solo spin time than Bull, in battle you definitely have not comprehended how they react in battle with different shifts of weight, how it reacts when head on, how the weight distribution can benefit so much more when contact is made, as opposed to solo spins.
Phantom B: D can spin for 7 minutes, MF Basalt Kerbecs 230CS can spin for 2 minutes.
Basalt can draw or even win. Based on solo spins, which is what this entire thread is based on, Phanto B: D's portions and whatever should mean it will win in stamina battles?
This thread title is incorrect, it is in fact:
To Rethink Solo Spin Times.
But, I did some Basalt B: D vs Scythe B: D testing.(Both A1 molds.)
They are very different to yours.
-----
MF-L Burn Bull 145WD average: 3 min 28.5 secs
BeyJun’s average (two attempts only): 3 min 01 secs
--
MF-L Burn Cancer 145WD average: 3 min 21 secs
BeyJun’s attempt (one attempt only): 2 min 49 secs
RE: To Rethink Stamina - Dracomageat - Oct. 29, 2011
While this may not relate directly to battle results, I still think it is a good theory to bear in mind, and not just for stamina types. A better spin time on your attack type could also make a lot of difference.
RE: To Rethink Stamina - othellog - Oct. 29, 2011
(Oct. 29, 2011 10:19 PM)ControL_ Wrote:That's weird man, I'll try again, but I'm pretty sure that I tested my results correctly.(Oct. 29, 2011 10:10 PM)othellog Wrote:The slight variations in strength multiplies at the end of the battle, with the possibility of variation of 10 or so rotations at the end of the battle. Make sure that person is of equal strength, and look at the results I got....(Oct. 29, 2011 10:03 PM)ControL_ Wrote: I'm doing some solo spin times, and so far:Damn dude, that's pretty good.
I have established that... BeyJun's first pull for MF-L Burn Bull 145WD was 3min 08sec! Immediately betters my first (not my best pull of 3min 02sec). So BeyJun goes and tell dad that he beats my solo spin time and my dad just laughs at how I should quit beyblading....
An average for Cancer and Bull to be posted very soon, just one more test to be done.
My first 100% pull (kneeling) was 3min28sec.
Btw, one of Phantom Orion's reached 6 minutes.
(Oct. 29, 2011 8:11 PM)ControL_ Wrote: The reason why I hate this theory so much is because solo spins means near nothing when two pieces of metal spinning at 6000RPM each collide...Yup, what you say is true. So, I'll have too more 1 on 1 testing, as I've already said.
Even if Cancer gets a higher solo spin time than Bull, in battle you definitely have not comprehended how they react in battle with different shifts of weight, how it reacts when head on, how the weight distribution can benefit so much more when contact is made, as opposed to solo spins.
Phantom B: D can spin for 7 minutes, MF Basalt Kerbecs 230CS can spin for 2 minutes.
Basalt can draw or even win. Based on solo spins, which is what this entire thread is based on, Phanto B: D's portions and whatever should mean it will win in stamina battles?
This thread title is incorrect, it is in fact:
To Rethink Solo Spin Times.
But, I did some Basalt B: D vs Scythe B: D testing.(Both A1 molds.)
They are very different to yours.
-----
MF-L Burn Bull 145WD average:[b] 3 min 28.5 secs
BeyJun’s average (two attempts only): 3 min 01 secs
--
MF-L Burn Cancer 145WD average: 3 min 21 secs
BeyJun’s attempt (one attempt only): 2 min 49 secs[/b]
I did dye my cancer though, but it ways the same as it did before I dyed it...
RE: To Rethink Stamina - ControL_ - Oct. 29, 2011
Dying doesn't make a difference, I solo spun my kerbecs before and after dying to make sure, it doesn't make a difference for me anyway.
Pretty much all the tests on this thread reveal Bull>Cancer via solo spin in the same way...
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Clear-Wheels-Stamina-Testing?highlight=clear+wheels