World Beyblade Organization - Burst Limited Customizations

Hasbro's Beyblade Burst - A Retrospective and Top 5 Combos

Tue, 17 Oct 2023 18:31:47 +0000

Back in April, I wrote an article to look back at Hasbro’s competitive scene through the Burst Series - and promptly forgot to post it. Here’s an article for those interested (particularly internationally), who may not have been following what Hasbro has been up to. Zankye also did a video meant to be a companion piece to this article; the link to his video, and a PDF version of this article, can be found below.

Zankye's Video Here

PDF Version Here

Hasbro’s Beyblade Burst

A Retrospective and Top 5 Combos

Introduction

With the release of Hasbro’s “Quad Creature Battle Set” in July 2023, Hasbro’s Beyblade Burst toyline has finally ended, and Hasbro’s competitive pool of parts is finalized. There will be no more new parts for the competitive Hasbro format. I can hear some of you thinking “Wait, what do you mean by “competitive” Hasbro format?”

“Hasbro is for fun! It isn’t competitive. You have to use Takara Tomy Beyblades to play competitively.”

Stock photo models play with HyperSphere Beyblades,

generally considered Hasbro’s most successful gimmick system

This is a sentiment that has been floating around since Hasbro first began to diverge from Takara Tomy’s Beyblade designs. It is one of many attitudes about Hasbro that emerged because of the power disparity between the two brands, as well as a lack of serious consideration of Hasbro Beyblades at a competitive level. But all formats, including Hasbro’s Burst Beyblades, have a metagame. All formats can be competitive, if a Blader wishes to play it that way.

Takara Tomy’s Burst Beyblades have several years and hundreds of tournaments worth of data, while Hasbro Beyblades lack almost any tournament data after 2018. Why is that?

History

2018 - The Death of Hasbro in Burst Standard
When Hasbro’s Burst toyline first released in 2016, they were only a few months behind their equivalent Takara Tomy releases. In general the power level between equivalent parts was roughly equal - some Hasbro releases were better, some were worse, than the Takara Tomy releases. For many players who already owned Takara Tomy Beyblades however, it did not make sense to wait months to buy potentially better Hasbro Beyblades. They could also keep their collection consistent to a single brand.

2018 was a point of divergence for the two brands. Towards the end of 2018, the power creep of Takara Tomy accelerated, along with the time gaps between Takara Tomy and Hasbro’s releases. Here’s an example:

If you purchased a Takara Tomy Arc Bahamut in November 2017, you would have waited until September 2018 for Hasbro’s equivalent, Balkesh B3.
But by then, Takara Tomy’s new Hell Salamander had already heavily outclassed Balkesh B3 4 months earlier.

This is also the period that coincided with the release of Hasbro’s “SlingShock System” Beyblades, and where Hasbro’s power level began to plateau. The inclusion of metal, the main gimmick of Takara Tomy’s Cho-Z Layers, was completely removed from the “SlingShock System”, severely reducing weight; many Drivers lost their gimmicks completely, to facilitate Hasbro’s “SlingShock” Driver gimmick.

Takara Tomy’s Z Achilles 11 Xtend (left) and Hasbro’s Z Achilles A4 11 Xtend-S (right)

With the majority of new Hasbro releases performing worse than products already released by both Hasbro (in the “SwitchStrike System”) or newly released by Takara Tomy (in the “Cho-Z Layer System”), competitive players drifted further away from buying Hasbro Beyblades.

If we look at tournament data for the standard Burst format, appearances from Hasbro Beyblades start to decline around this time.

2019 - Hasbro Gets Stale
By 2019, Hasbro releases could no longer compete with Takara Tomy releases.

Beginning with the new “SlingShock System”, Hasbro would maintain a stable, albeit stale metagame. The SlingShock System saw many new parts that were on par with the SwitchStrike System in terms of power.

The power level achieved by Hasbro with the “SwitchStrike System” remained the benchmark for years. The metagame mostly consisted of the same strong SwitchStrike Layers, heavy Core Discs/Frames, and the same staple Drivers. The Hasbro metagame remained mostly the same from 2017 to 2022 - 5 years of the same top combos.

The Bearing Driver remains a staple of Hasbro since 2018

There is no excitement or incentive to buy new parts if they perform the same or worse than parts you already own. With “negative powercreep”, there is no desire for competitive players to test new parts. If most new Hasbro parts are consistently outclassed by older parts, a broad assumption is made that every subsequent new Hasbro part is also of the same poor caliber. The Hasbro metagame had achieved competitive predictability.

Naturally, competitive players seeking excitement and the highest level of competitive Beyblade sought out Takara Tomy, which had a constantly evolving metagame every year.

2020 - Hasbro in Burst Limited
Continuing the trend of the SlingShock System, Hasbro released the “HyperSphere System”. While some Layers were on-par with SwitchStrike Layers, arguably none powercrept previous Layers, with the top SwitchStrike Layers retaining their dominance. Some HyperSphere Drivers saw niche use, but older Drivers such as Xtreme, Bearing, Unite, etc. remained staples. HyperSphere Discs were completely useless, as they were essentially all underweight 19 gram Core Discs.

In 2020, the World Beyblade Organization (WBO) introduced the “Burst Limited” format. Part of the announcement was the following:

“The weight class of God Layers is on par with all modern Hasbro releases, thus making many of these products extremely viable and accessible in Limited format.”

Indeed, Hasbro parts from every system saw some play in the format, including Hasbro’s “HyperSphere System” parts. With little existing tournament data about Hasbro parts, Burst Limited tournaments became the only contemporary source on Hasbro releases. However, this data came from a small number of Burst Limited tournaments, which were heavily concentrated into a few regions, meaning we did not have the luxury of regional differences or metas to analyze.

2021 - Hasbro Goes Pro

The “SpeedStorm System” gave us only 2 powerful parts (Triumph Dragon D6 and Wheel-SP) that powercrept older Hasbro parts. The rest of the system was heavily outclassed by previously released Hasbro parts. The “SpeedStorm System” is unique in that, while almost all of its parts were worse than the general power level of SlingShock/HyperSphere systems, 2 parts finally powercrept SwitchStrike System parts. Wheel-SP is arguably Hasbro’s most powerful and versatile Disc ever released, with it being a staple in the Burst GT and Burst Limited formats to this day.

The misconception of Hasbro Beyblades being non-competitive was further reinforced by Hasbro themselves, who resold Takara Tomy releases under their “Pro Series” line as “intermediate skill level” toys - the manufacturer themselves were implying that their own regular releases were not to be taken seriously at a competitive level.

2022/2023 - Hasbro Layer Powercreep Arrives
Now we are here, in the middle of 2023, and Hasbro’s Burst toyline has finally come to an end. With Hasbro’s 2022 “QuadDrive System” and 2023 “QuadStrike System” came new Layer parts that finally powercrept Hasbro’s “SwitchStrike System” Layers from 5 years earlier.

The top 3 QuadStrike Layers - Xiphoid, Whirl, and Gambit

After years of using the left spin Attack Layer Luinor L3, Hasbro players now had access to strong right spin Attack Type Layers such as Xiphoid. After years of Spryzen Requiem S3 and Balkesh B3 dominating top Hasbro combos, Hasbro players could now go out and buy Fierce, Gambit, Twister, and Whirl off store shelves. These Layers arguably powercrept or were on par with top SwitchStrike Layers, and were also compatible with powerful Discs such as the brand new Tapered-Q and Over-Q. QuadDrive also saw the release of a few powerful Armor Tips - namely the Same-Spin parts +Kick and +Revolve.

Misconceptions

Drivers
While it is true that Hasbro players are spoiled for choice when it comes to Drivers, it is somewhat misleading because in reality the actual number of competitively viable Drivers is very low, when compared to the overall number of available Drivers.

Destroy Driver variants; Takara Tomy (top 3) and Hasbro (bottom 5)

Beginning with SlingShock, every subsequent system would have some kind of system-wide modification to work with Hasbro’s unique system stadiums.

Generally speaking,

SlingShock had several Drivers with minimal disruptive effect on the primary Driver gimmick, and thus Drivers such as Hunter-S, Destroy-S, and Atomic-S, have competitive usage.
HyperSphere Drivers all had the same general wide and round shape, but find little high-tier competitive usage in a Hasbro format.
SpeedStorm Drivers are too tall and unstable in a Hasbro format. The exception is Evolution-SP, which can be worn to an acceptable height and used on QuadDrive/QuadStrike Attack Layers.
QuadDrive/QuadStrike Drivers, and their Armor Tip attachments, lacked primary Driver gimmicks and thus the vast majority of them are not usable.
- Only Yielding-Q is marginally relevant as a Same-Spin Stamina Driver, while half a dozen Armor Tips are competitive for Stamina use only. Attack and Defense options in this system are non-existent.

Bursting
A common misconception that is generally held is “Takara Tomy Beyblades don’t Burst, and Hasbro Beyblades do”. This is usually said as a merit of Hasbro’s Beyblades, and why playing with Hasbro Beyblades is “more fun”.

This is simply not true. Since day 1 and up to its last release, Hasbro has always had “tight” Beyblade combos with high Burst Resistance. But because Hasbro competitive is so underrepresented in tournament settings, this myth persists as casual gameplay takes over the discussion of Hasbro parts. Individuals play the game in a casual setting, and make broad assumptions about Hasbro as a whole, including Hasbro’s competitive metagame.

A contemporary stock combo example is the recently released Divine Belfyre stock combo, with the Evo Belfyre B8 Chip and Guard-Q Driver, which is very tight.

Divine Evo Belfyre B8 Squadron-Q Guard-Q+Adventure-3

However, once we look into current competitive Hasbro combos like Whirl Evo Belfyre B8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4’, it becomes apparent that the Burst Resistance is equal if not greater than similar analogous combos in the upper echelons of Takara Tomy’s metagame, i.e. Wind Lucifer Illegal Bearing Drift-0. The final system of QuadDrive/QuadStrike also has some of the best Driver springs Hasbro has ever released, on Drivers like Assault-Q, Edge-Q, Orbit-Q, etc.

Why play with Hasbro Burst?

We can only speak for ourselves, but personally my reason was accessibility. I started my journey with Beyblade Burst through a HyperSphere Union Achilles A5 - it was an impulsive purchase at the grocery store - and for many in my area, Hasbro Beyblades were readily accessible in-store, or were already owned.

Union Achilles A5 Convert Xtender-H

It also was somewhat a personal curiosity - the Hasbro only format’s metagame has been barely explored, and was a format that little cared for. I was curious to discover the best combos in a format where little competitive interest existed. And who knows? Maybe someone would want to know someday,

“What is the best Hasbro Beyblade?”

The best Hasbro Beyblade

The question of what the “best” Beyblade is, is already difficult to answer. Opinions can differ and the matchups and opponent’s Beyblades matter. However, this question is even more difficult to answer in the context of Hasbro Burst, where there is the aforementioned lack of competitive play and data. Thus with the help of the WBO community, we were able to pinpoint some more specific combos.

Top 5 Best Hasbro Beyblade Burst Combos

This section will cover the strongest Hasbro Burst Beyblade parts and combos, in the context of Hasbro’s “standard” metagame. This article is based on personal and community testing, as well as the limited tournament data that is available.

The intention is to either satisfy your curiosity, and/or increase your chances of winning by presenting the strengths, weaknesses, and how to build the top five best Hasbro Beyblade Burst combos. With Beyblade Burst having now seen its final release by Hasbro it is very unlikely this list will change.

With that being said, since Hasbro’s metagame is heavily under-analyzed at the time of writing, it is possible that the community may experiment years down the line and discover a hidden nuance of the available Hasbro part pool.

The following combos are in no particular order and represent the same power level of Hasbro’s metagame.

Best Hasbro Burst Combo #5: Spryzen Requiem S3 Wheel-SP Bearing
Powerful opposite-spin Stamina performance.

Parts

Layer: Spryzen Requiem S3
Disc: Wheel-SP
Driver: Bearing

If you’ve played during the era of Spriggan Requiem and Spryzen Requiem S3, you’ll already be aware of their powerful opposite spin performance, as in its performance against opposing Beyblades that are spinning in a direction opposite to Spryzen Requiem S3. If you’re coming from Burst Standard, you may be familiar with Astral, Burst, and World filling this role.

The Bearing Driver is by far Hasbro’s highest performing Stamina Driver in opposite-spin matchups, and when combined with the dual-spin and high Spin-Equalization capabilities of Spryzen Requiem S3, you are likely to win or tie most matches against the opposite spin direction. Even against opponents in the same spin direction, this combo can hold its own against most.

The Disc choice of Wheel-SP was chosen as it offers the best Outward Weight Distribution (OWD) for this combo.

While its strength lies in its opposite-spin matchups, if you are unable to change modes or counter-pick, this combo is essentially powerless. It is also vulnerable to Attackers such as Nightmare Luinor L3 and Xiphoid, although it can be launched lightly in the opposite spin direction to mitigate the power of the opposing Attacker.

Best Hasbro Burst Combo #4: Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-Greatest Armor
Legality questionable, Smash Attack not so.

Parts

Chip: Xcalius X8 (Alternatives: Dragon D8, Balderov B7)
Blade: Xiphoid
Gravity Ring: Greatest Armor (G13)
Disc: Twist-Q (Alternatives: Over-Q, Squadron-Q)
Driver: Xtreme (Alternatives: Hunter-S, Keep-S)

This questionably legal combo is Hasbro’s most aggressive and powerful right-spin Attack combo. Like its Takara Tomy counterpart, Hasbro’s Xiphoid Blade has powerful Smash Attack, and can easily KO or Burst most opponents. This is especially relevant as right-spin Stamina Layers such as Whirl and Gambit dominate the Stamina metagame of the Hasbro format.

As with most Attack combos however, there is a certain element of risk; skill is required to avoid self-KOs and power and speed is required when launching to properly use a Xiphoid combo.

The Greatest Armor (G13) Gravity Ring is an absolute requirement, as it makes the combo unBurstable - without it, the combo will be prone to Bursting. Due to the inclusion of the Greatest Armor, the Burst Resistance of the Chip is not important - thus weight is prioritized, and Chips such as Xcalius X8 and Dragon D8, which weigh over 5 grams, should be used. The heaviest right-spin Chip is Balderov B7 (5.2 grams for some molds), but this does increase the chance of Bursting for a somewhat miniscule weight gain.

In addition, the G13 Gravity Ring helps balance out the hollow underside of the Xiphoid Blade, reducing Stamina loss and improving hits in general.

While Twist-Q is the optimal Disc to use, it is also very difficult to obtain as it is only found on Lightning Pandora P8, which was only released in 2 large sets. Therefore, Discs such as Over-Q are also usable.

While Xtreme is ideal due to the softest rubber and best tip diameter offered by Hasbro Drivers, Hunter-S is also an acceptable substitute.

Best Hasbro Burst Combo #3: Arc Balkesh B3 00Cross Atomic
Great Defense and Stamina against other left-spin Beyblades.

Parts

Layer: Arc Balkesh B3
Disc: 00 with “Cross” Frame (Alternatives: Wheel-SP, 0)
Driver: Atomic (Alternatives: Atomic-S)

Balkesh B3 has been a staple since its release, to the point where it was banned from the WBO’s Burst Limited format. One of the primary weaknesses of the Takara Tomy version was its shallow teeth, which had bad Burst Resistance. Hasbro solves this issue by giving Balkesh B3 the tightest possible slopes of any Hasbro Layer. This means that Balkesh B3 is very unlikely to Burst.

Arc Balkesh B3 00Cross Atomic is a strong Defense/Stamina combo used against other left-spin combos. It can beat almost any left-spin combo in Stamina, and can tank hits against Attackers, thanks to the Atomic Driver. It also has excellent Burst Resistance, due to the aforementioned tight slopes of the Arc Balkesh B3 Layer.

Best Hasbro Burst Combo #2: Nightmare Luinor L3 Expand Xtreme
Delivering powerful Smash Attack since 2018.

Parts

Layer: Nightmare Luinor L3
Disc: “Expand” Frame (Alternatives: Turn)
Driver: Xtreme (Alternatives: Hunter-S, Keep-S)

If you’re familiar with Takara Tomy’s Guilty Longinus in the Burst Standard format, you’ll find that Hasbro’s Nightmare Luinor L3 is comparable in many aspects. As with other Longinus Beys, Nightmare Luinor L3 finds itself as a top-tier Attacker in its format as Hasbro’s strongest left-spin Attacker. The Expand Frame was chosen for its round perimeter and high LAD as well as its weight.

The Xtreme Driver remains Hasbro’s best rubber Attack option, although it can be substituted for Hunter-S and Keep-S if Xtreme is not available.

Like other Longinus Beys, a skilled Blader can easily win a tournament using only Nightmare Luinor L3. This format lacks any strong Defense Type counters that can reliably tank Nightmare Luinor L3.

However, your main win conditions in against the dominant opposite spin Stamina Beys such as Whirl will be knock-outs (KOs), as Bursting is unlikely and Outspin is almost impossible. Therefore you’ll need a bit of luck to avoid having successive wall hits.

Best Hasbro Burst Combo #1: Whirl Evo Belfyre B8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4’
Turn off your brain and let it rip.

Parts

Chip: Evo Belfyre B7/B8 (Alternatives: Perseus P7, Dragon D8,Pandemonium P8)
Blade: Whirl
Gravity Ring: 4’ (Four Dash)
Disc: Tapered-Q
Driver: Bearing

Just as its Takara Tomy counterpart Wind had done in the Burst Standard format half a year earlier, the Whirl Layer quickly rose to the top of Hasbro’s Layers as a top-tier Stamina use Layer. It is the same diameter as the SwitchStrike Layer “Garuda G3”, but has the advantage of weight and High Mode. 4’ (Four Dash) is the heaviest Gravity Ring (Armor) available. Tapered-Q is the best QuadDrive/QuadStrike Disc to use with Whirl by a large margin, and Bearing has been a staple Hasbro Stamina Driver for years.

In a 1on1 format, this combo is by far the safest pick, with excellent Same-Spin performance in Low Mode and excellent Opposite-Spin performance in High Mode (tie or win). It is further complemented by the high Burst Resistance of the Chip, making it difficult for Attackers to Burst it. Its primary weaknesses are being KO’d by Attackers such as Xiphoid or being outspun by specialized Same-Spin Stamina combos, such as Gambit on +Kick.

Competitive Burst Limited Customizations

Thu, 03 Aug 2023 03:29:55 +0000

Competitive Burst Limited Customizations
(Last Updated August 2, 2023)

With the last of Hasbro's Burst Beyblades releasing, I thought it was a good time to make a new competitive Burst Limited combo list, now that the parts pool is set in stone. The formatting of this thread is based on the Wombat "Competitive Burst Classic Customizations" thread. Furthermore, the list was compiled based on the banlist as of writing, with no Ranked Clauses active.

Note: Generally speaking, within one category and brand, combos are listed from best to worst, and within one combo "line" parts are listed from best to worst. For example:

Burst Limited Competitive Combos List Wrote:Attack
Takara Tomy
Nightmare Longinus Expand/Turn Xtreme’/Quick’

Buster Xcalibur 0/00Expand/Dagger Xtreme’/Quick’

suggests that the Nightmare Longinus combo outperforms the Buster Xcalibur combo, and that Expand is the optimal Frame for both setups.

Attack

Attack
Takara Tomy

Nightmare Longinus Expand/Turn Xtreme’/Quick’
Buster Xcalibur 0/00Dagger Xtreme’/Quick’
Twin Nemesis Wheel-SP Xtreme’/Destroy’
Hazard Kerbeus Wheel-SP Xtreme’/Destroy’
Bloody Longinus Wheel-SP Xtreme’

Hasbro

Xiphoid Dragon D8/Xcalius X8/Balderov B7 Twist-Q/Over-Q Xtreme/Hunter-S/Keep-S-Greatest Armor (G13)
Luinor L3 Expand/Turn Xtreme
Salvage Dragon D8/Xcalius X8/Balderov B7 Twist-Q/Over-Q Xtreme/Hunter-S/Keep-S-Greatest Armor (G13)
Xiphoid Dragon D8/Xcalius X8/Balderov B7 Nexus-Q+S Gear Hunter-S-Greatest Armor (G13)
Salvage Dragon D8/Xcalius X8/Balderov B7 Nexus-Q+S Gear Hunter-S-Greatest Armor (G13)

Defense

Defense
Takara Tomy

Alter Chronos Wheel-SP Atomic’

Hasbro

Chain Evo Belfyre B7/Perseus P7/Dragon D8/Pandemonium P8 Tapered-Q/Over-Q Unite-4/4’/10/10’/0/3
Monster Achilles A5/Evo Genesis G5 Wheel-SP/0Expand Unite/Atomic/Atomic-S

Stamina (Both Spin)
Takara Tomy

Geist Fafnir Wheel-SP/Tapered-Q Bearing Drift/Drift/Destroy’
Grand Dragon 2 Wheel-SP Bearing Drift/Drift Gen
Galaxy Zeus Wheel-SP Bearing Drift/Drift/Atomic’/Revolve’

Hasbro

Whirl Evo Belfyre B7/Perseus P7/Dragon D8/Pandemonium P8 Tapered-Q/Over-Q Bearing-4/4’/10/10’/0/3
Twister Evo Belfyre B7/Perseus P7/Dragon D8/Pandemonium P8 Tapered-Q/Over-Q Bearing-4/4’/10/10’/0/3

Stamina (Same Spin)
Takara Tomy

Flame Sagittario Wheel-SP/0Expand Wave’/High Wave’/Revolve’
Arc Bahamut 00Cross/Wheel-SP Atomic’/Revolve’/Bearing Drift
Deep Chaos Wheel-SP Atomic’/Orbit/Revolve’

Hasbro

Gambit Evo Belfyre B7/Perseus P7/Dragon D8/Pandemonium P8 Tapered-Q/Over-Q Assault-Q/Edge-Q/Orbit-Q+Kick/Revolve-4/4’/10/10’/0/3
Triumph Dragon D6 Wheel-SP Assault-Q/Edge-Q/Orbit-Q+Kick
Fierce Helios H8 Tapered-Q Assault-Q/Edge-Q/Orbit-Q+Kick-4/4’/10/10’/0/3
Deep Caynox Wheel-SP Atomic/Orbit/Revolve
Tide Treptune T3 Wheel-SP Atomic/Orbit/Revolve

Stamina (Opposite Spin)
Takara Tomy

Drain Fafnir Wheel-SP/0Cross Bearing’/Bearing Drift/Drift
Blaze Ragnaruk 0Cross Drift
Alter Chronos Wheel-SP Bearing Drift

Hasbro

Fafnir F3 Wheel-SP/0Cross Bearing/Mobius-SP

Balance

Anti-Attack
Takara Tomy

Bloody Longinus Generate/Shot

Hasbro

Whirl Knight K8 Testing and Discussion

Fri, 14 Apr 2023 03:31:45 +0000

Whirl Knight K8 Competitive Testing & Discussion

Whirl Knight K8 is now available in both Canada and the United States, so I thought I'd start a thread here on it.

To quickly get it out of the way, the Knight K8 Strike Chip is not great. It has very level slopes, with a slight change in the middle - it is outclassed by other Chips like Perseus P8 and Dragon D8. It is also slightly below the heavy end of Chip weight of 5.0 grams, weighing around 4.7 grams. Knight K8 also has one of the worst paint jobs (or lack thereof) that Hasbro has put out, on par with Dragon D8.

Whirl is mostly a circle.

Above I have Whirl in the middle, compared to Hasbro's Garuda G3 (left) and Takara Tomy's Wind (right). The measuresments are as follows; forgive any slight measurement errors, as I am using a caveman method with the tools I have on-hand (a ruler).

Diameters:
G3 5.9cm
Whirl 5.7cm
Wind 6.3cm

Maximum heights:
G3 1.0cm
Whirl 1.6cm
Wind 1.9cm

Whirl is smaller than its Takara Tomy counterpart in size, and is even smaller than Garuda G3 - sort of. Garuda G3 and Whirl are basically the same diameter, but the reason for the slightly smaller diameter of Whirl is because, while Garuda G3 is a perfect circle, Whirl slightly bends inwards at 3 points. Furthermore, while Garuda G3 has a perfectly smooth perimeter, Whirl's is slightly more rugged. Whirl is also slightly taller and thicker than Garuda - compared to G3, which weighs around 9.5 grams, Whirl weighs about 4 grams more, at 13.5 grams (Whirl Dragon D8 -3). While G3 and Whirl perform very similarly, I give the edge to Whirl as in testing it seems to win in mirror matches, and has the added utility of High Mode against Opposite Spin opponents.

Note that this is also why I do not recommend using the Greatest Armor (G13) Gravity Ring - doing so will indeed add a bit of stability and weight to Whirl (no Burst Resistance increase from G13), but removes the ability to swap to High Mode. In theory you would use the 3/3' Gravity Ring as you would use a three-sided Armor with Wind, but the Gravity Rings weigh a gram so I doubt it's the end of the world if you didn't own 3/3'. I have used 4/4' as well without issue, which I compare to the 0 Armor in the Burst Standard format.

The Whirl QS Blade, as an adaptation of Takara Tomy's Wind BU Blade, is similarly circular in shape. Wind is quite popular in the Burst Standard format, and Whirl does live up to expectations in this format, with a few similarities in performance. For example, High Mode can be used with Wind against Opposite Spin opponents - Whirl can also be used to this effect. Sure, it's not as wide as Wind, the gaps are smaller, and there's no Upper/Down Force mode change, but I am doubtful that hurt its overall performance very much.

I've called the Gambit QS Blade "Diet Driger V2", but I believe Whirl is closer to Driger V2 in that regard. Whirl requires either a hard hitting Attacker like Hasbro's Xiphoid, or a specialized Same-Spin combo, i.e. Flame Saggitario, Gambit, Triumph, etc. Against left-spin opponents like Geist Fafnir or Drain Fafnir, Whirl has a good chance of either tying or winning (tests were done wih Hasbro's Bearing). Like Gambit, Whirl has fairly high Burst Resistance and Burst Defense when paired with a tight Chip. Gambit I would argue has slightly better Defense overall than Whirl, due to its weight and more rugged shape. However, Gambit has slightly worse High Mode Opposite-Spin performance. Because Whirl is similar to (if not better than) Garuda G3, I don't reckon Whirl will remain legal in this format. In a straight mirror match against Driger V2, Whirl did not do very well, so I am doubtful Whirl will make an impact in the next format up, Burst GT.

I have a Burst Limited event in 2 weeks where half the participants own Whirl, so maybe I'll update this post with any relevant observations. Would be happy to hear any thoughts on Whirl as well, although given the subject matter, this may not generate much discussion.

Oh and +Bounce is terrible.

June 10, 2023 Update: Testings

I've included data from testings, and some further thoughts post-tournament. To start off, some Stamina testings for Same-Spin and Opposite-Spin opponents:

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4'
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 6 wins (6 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 4 wins (4 OS)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 60%

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' (High Mode) vs Geist Fafnir Wheel-SP Bearing Drift
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 5 wins (5 OS)
Geist Fafnir Wheel-SP Bearing Drift: 5 wins (5 OS)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 50%

Note that these matches were done with varying launching angles as well; both Gambit and Whirl got wins in a variety of launches and who launched first did not matter, nor which Bearing/Tapered-Q was used. Ties were not counted. My sense is that the two Blades are fairly even in terms of Same-Spin Stamina, in the same manner of Takara Tomy's Dynamite (F Gear) and Wind in the Burst Standard format. In terms of Opposite-Spin Stamina, High Mode Whirl seemed more effective than High Mode Gambit against Layers such as Drain Fafnir and Geist Fafnir.

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Flame Sagittario Wheel-SP Wave'
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 2 wins (2 OS)
Flame Sagittario Wheel-SP Wave': 8 wins (8 OS)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 20%

Like was the case with Gambit, Whirl performed poorly against a Same-Spin dedicated combo using Flame Sagittario. To finish off these tests, I wanted to see how Whirl stacked up against Attackers compared to Gambit. I used Hasbro's Xiphoid as the benchmark.

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Unite-4' vs Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Unite-4': 2 wins (2 OS)
Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13: 3 wins (3 KO)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 40%

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Unite-4' vs Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Unite-4': 3 wins (3 OS)
Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13: 2 wins (2 KO)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 60%

Granted the sample size is small, but it appears to me at least that Gambit has a better time tanking hits from Xiphoid than Whirl did.

Finally, I wanted to see how the popular Whirl Bearing combo faired against Attack, beginning with Twin Nemesis, which is generally considered outclassed by Hasbro's Xiphoid.

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Twin Nemesis Wheel-SP Xtreme'
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 1 wins (2 OS)
Twin Nemesis Wheel-SP Xtreme': 4 wins (4 KO)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 20%

And finally Xiphoid and Nightmare Longinus:

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 2 wins (2 OS)
Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13: 3 wins (3 KO)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 40%

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Nightmare Longinus Expand Quick'
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 1 wins (1 OS)
Nightmare Longinus Expand Quick': 4 wins (4 KO)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 20%

I think from these results, it is fair to say Whirl is weak to even "outclassed" Attackers in the format.

From my testings and tournament experience, Whirl seems to be a strong pick for 1on1 Match Type. This situation was reminiscent of the Wind Bearing Drift combos we had seen in Burst Standard tournaments in our area.

Using Whirl in the 1on1 Match Type First Stage is fairly easy to do. The optimal Whirl Tapered-Q Bearing combo was used by all 5 players, and all were in the top half of the tournament. Whirl has good Same and Opposite-Spin performance, and high Burst Resistance, and even bad Chips are usable on it. It is a relatively safe First Stage combo, and requires no strategic planning other than switching to High Mode against lefts - a "turn off your brain and autopilot" combo.

Final Stage is where things begin to fall apart for Whirl however. Unlike the Wind BDr metagame of BST or the Driger V2 BDr metagame of 2022 BSL, nobody used Whirl Bearing in their Decks, except for me, who scored 0 points with it in Final Stage. Unlike the Wind and Driger V2, which could probably hold their own in a Deck and have no 100% guaranteed counters, Whirl has several reliable counters. Ultimately, this is why Whirl saw no usefulness in the Deck Match Type Final Stage.

Imperfect Phoenix P4 Discussion (Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP)

Sun, 02 Apr 2023 01:22:54 +0000

I keep saying I'm going to do more tests for this, since it's part of a bigger project I'm doing with defense types, but I keep running out of time, so I figured I might as well post the tests I had.

Concept

I "found" this combo when testing out Hasbro's Imperfect Phoenix P4 Layer for Defense, according to bladekid it was one of the best defensive Layers upon release, so I had gotten it and Monster and was going to compare them with things like mG, H4, bK, etc. Maybe even defensive Gambit. It was really inspired by the pP.Ω.Vl'/Mb combo that Shindog likes to use, with the specific height and diameter of Mb-SP and the specific shape of Ωuter and iP4 it's able to pull off some unkoable shenanigans against specifically nL/L3.

As for Imperfect Phoenix specifically: none of Hasbro's Phoenix parts have metal, so the weight advantage of using pP isn't there. When bladekid first recommended this Layer he said that the imperfect armor is better because it is easier to remove - the perfect armor gets caught in the attachment mechanism, meaning that if the Layer takes too hard of a hit it could just drag the whole thing along with it and burst. I now have 2 Perfect and 1 Imperfect Phoenices for Hasbro, and that claim checks out for me as well. I also found that the perfect armor was kind of a bad shape and would get destabilized more easily. He also claimed that the imperfect core was tighter - this might be due to variation or Driver choice, but I would say it's debatably true for me? Both of my perfect cores feel a little bit looser overall, but they do have one "tight" point at the very end of the slope, whereas my imperfect core is uniformly a little bit tighter overall. Additionally, the height of Mb-SP means that the combo remains relatively unbothered by the armor if it does fall off.

Testing
Vs Attack

Benchmark:
Triumph Dragon Wheel-SP Absorb-S vs Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
TD.Wh.Ab-S: 6 wins (all OS)
nL.T.X': 14 wins (13 KO, 1 OS)
TD.Wh.Ab-S win rate: 30%

Imperfect Phoenix P4 0Cross Atomic-S vs. Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
iP4.0C.At-S: 8 wins (1 KO, 1 OS)
nL.T.X': 12 wins (11 KO, 1 OS)
2 ties redone
iP4.0C.At-S win rate: 40%

Imperfect Phoenix P4 0Expand Unite vs. Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
iP4.0E.U: 9 wins (5 KO, 4 OS)
nL.T.X': 11 wins (9 KO, 2 OS)
iP4.0E.U win rate: 45%

It's possible that these combos perform better against right spin attackers that might knock off the armor more consistently than nL can, but I didn't find them to be very impressive at all. iP Unite especially, was surprisingly bad.

Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Revolver-SPM vs. Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
iP4.Ω.R-SPM: 8 wins (all OS)
nL.T.X': 12 wins (10 KO, 2 OS)
2 ties redone
iP4.Ω.R-SPM win rate: 40%

After trying the more traditional setups, I went for a more Flame 230 approach, first with R-SPM for the same spin utility. Unfortunately, it didn't work better than At-S defensively. Idk if there is some same spin matchup R-SPM wins that At-S does not, or if +R or +Kc would be a better choice if one wanted same spin utility.

Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 15 wins (all OS)
nL.T.X': 5 wins (all KO)
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 75%

I understand skill issues are a thing, and that testing vs tournament environment is also a thing, but I was definitely trying my hardest to KO this thing with nL and not even getting very far. Even if nL was able to land a solid hit, most of the time, it would just graze against the smooth surface of Outer.

This is an identical winrate to what I got against mG.00.Kp' in this benchmark way back when, I put that same combo together for a few quick rounds to compare out of curiosity and while I didn't count exactly nL for sure got 2 KOs in pretty quick succession, so I think iP might actually be a bit better in this matchup. I then tried iP against L3 Hunter-S, thinking that the taller RF would make it easier to hit. I still need to get a launcher that can launch L3 more consistently, but out of the 5 good rounds I got before giving up L3.Hn-S achieved 3 KOs, a 60% winrate. I didn't get a chance to test but I would imagine it is similarly more vulnerable to bL.Gn since that is also quite tall.

Vs Stamina

Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Flame Sagittario Wheel-SP Wave
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 0 wins
FS.Wh.Wv: 5 wins (all OS)
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 0%

Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Deep Chaos Wheel-SP Xtend+
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 0 wins
dC.Wh.Xt+: 5 wins (all OS)
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 0%

Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Triumph Dragon Wheel-SP Absorb-S
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 0 wins
TD.Wh.Ab-S: 5 wins (all OS)
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 0%

The TT Mobius is known for sometimes destabilizing and "sitting" on combos to OS them in same spin. I was unable to reproduce that effect, especially against FS, which was able to knock off the armor to OS it more quickly. I changed the Disks to 7E and 10C respectively and I think I got 1 questionable OS against 1 of them... it's not very good in same spin.

Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Fafnir F3 10Cross Absorb-S
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 4 wins (all OS)
F3.10C.Ab-S: 6 wins (all OS)
3 ties redone
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 40%

Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP vs. Drain Fafnir 7Expand Wave
iP4.Ω.Mb-Sp: 7 wins (all OS)
dF.7E.Wv: 3 wins (all OS)
2 ties redone
iP4.Ω.Mb-SP win rate: 70%

This was a bit surprising and definitely dependent on how good your Mobius is. It seems to be inconsistently good, I think the height disparity might have played a part in the different performance vs Ab-S and Wv?

Overall
At least from my testing, Imperfect Phoenix P4 Ωuter Mobius-SP appears to be one of the most consistent answers to Nightmare Longinus/Luinor L3 combos using standard height Drivers or shorter. I still have yet to test it against same spin attackers, and explore more of its LAD matchups (Et/Xt+ especially) but as of now it's only notable for being very good at winning one specific, albeit relatively important matchup.

Alter Chronos Testing and Discussion

Sun, 26 Mar 2023 19:53:49 +0000

Been wanting to do tests for alter kronos for 3 weeks now but I had exams and i finally finished my exams

Anyways i will be testing it for same/opposite spin stamina and defense

Same spin stamina

Alter kronos 0(3 stars) wave’ vs deep chaos 0(3 stars) wave

(Both combos balanced tuned to the best of my ability)

Alter kronos: 5 wins (4 os 1 bf)

Deep chaos: 15 wins (all os)

Alter chronos win: 25%

Vs flame sagiterio (idk how to spell it)

Alter kronos 0 (3 stars) wave’ vs flame sageterio 0 (3 stars) wave

(Both balanced tuned to the best of my ability)

Kronos: 7 wins (all os)
Flame: 13 wins (all os)

conclusion for same spin:
It seems to lose more than win , but it always seems to lose by a bit so overall good stamina but not top tier

Opposite spin testings

Vs drain

Alter kronos 0 (3 stars) wave’ vs drain fafnir 0 (3 stars) wave

Alter kronos: 8 wins: (all os)
Drain : 2 wins : (all os)
2 draws

Alter kronos win: 80%

Surprised me how well it did vs drain

Vs arc bahamut

Alter kronos 0 (3 stars) wave’ vs arc bahamut 0 (3 stars) wave

Kronos: 10 wins( 9 os 1 bf)

Arc: 0 wins

Alter kronos win: 100%

Conclusion for opp spin stamina :

It seems to do really really well in opposite spin stamina .

Defense testing

Vs nightmare

Alter chronos 00bump keep’ vs nightmare longinus turn xtreme

Kronos: 13 wins (11 os 2 ko)

Nightmare: 8 wins (all ko)

Alter kronos win: 65%

Vs hazard

Alter kronos 00bump keep’ vs hazard kerbeus 7turn xtreme’

Kronos: 12 wins (9 os 1 ko 2 bf)

Hazard: 9 wins ( 8 ko 1 bf)

Alter kronos win: 60%

Note: since im testing by myself , it would be easier to aim at alter kronos and get an early hit which is really important, especially for hazard since its only good for like the first 7 seconds of the battle. So you could probably get a better result than here if you were to use it in tournament

Conclusion

Alter kronos seems to be really good at opposite spin stamina and good at defense.
Decent but not that good at same spin stamina

Fierce Achilles A8 Testing and Discussion

Tue, 21 Feb 2023 06:41:25 +0000

Fierce Achilles A8 Competitive Testing & Discussion

The first wave of the Beyblade Burst QuadStrike toyline has started making its way to Canadian retail, and Fierce Achilles A8 is 1 of 2 Booster Packs to be released in wave 1. The night before a Burst Limited tournament, I impulse bought the Fierce Achilles A8 Booster Pack, intending to use it in the tournament. Its performance at the tournament impressed me enough to warrant further testing. Due to time constraints, testings were 5 rounds each instead of the usual 10, with alternating launches. The Takara Tomy Burst BeyStadium Standard Type was used, and the Launchers used were both the Power Custom BeyLauncher LR. Testing was done entirely in Low Mode (Core Mode), as I forgot to do High Mode. And I'm currently 120 kilometres (75 miles) away from my Beyblades at the time of writing.

Gravity Ring Choice

The 4' Gravity Ring was used for testing with the Fierce QS Blade. 4, 4', 10, and 10' (1.7 grams) are the heaviest "regular" Gravity Rings besides the "Greatest Armor" (G13) (3.2 grams). G13 has mainly been used to increase the Burst Resistance of QD/QS Blades, as it slightly increases the distance between the Chip and the Driver, due to the way it sits underneath Blades. G13 also provides weight and stability, as it compensates for the hollow undersides of Blades. However, for these testings G13 was not used with Fierce, as during initial tests using G13 did not lead to any large performance increase. Like Gambit, Fierce lacks a hanging underside and there is little to no Burst Resistance increase from G13.

Although G13 does seem to slightly improve performance, I thought it was more worthwhile to consider Fierce's performance without G13, as most players will be using G13 for their Attack Type Blades, such as Xiphoid. Some players may also not have access to G13, and so it is with this reasoning that 4' was used.

Comparisons

At first glance, Fierce is very similar in shape to both the Roar (QD) and Gambit (QS) Blades. Hasbro's Roar QD Blade largely failed to gain traction due to its light weight and the prevalence of better left-spin Stamina Type Layer options such as Fafnir F3. Comparing weights between Roar and Fierce:

Roar (6.8 grams) + Achilles Strike Chip (4.7 grams) + 4' Gravity Ring (1.7 grams) = 13.2 grams Layer total
Fierce (8.8 grams) + Achilles Strike Chip (4.7 grams) + 4' Gravity Ring (1.7 grams) = 15.2 grams Layer total

Roar and Fierce side by side:

Fierce is in a sense the left-spin equivalent of the right-spin Gambit QS Blade. They have a similar diameter, shape, and weight, with only a 0.8 grams difference (Fierce is lighter). Notably however, Fierce lacks a heavy Chip - the best left-spin Chips in terms of Burst Resistance, Bazilisk and Helios, are both underweight at 4.8 and 4.6 grams respectively. The heaviest left-spin Chip, Spryzen S8 at 5.2 grams, has poor Burst Resistance.

Gambit (9.6 grams) + Dragon Strike Chip (5.0 grams) + 4' Gravity Ring (1.7 grams) = 16.5 grams Layer total
Fierce (8.8 grams) + Achilles Strike Chip (4.7 grams) + 4' Gravity Ring (1.7 grams) = 15.2 grams Layer total

Gambit and Fierce side by side:

Testings

Here are a few matches between Gambit and Fierce:
Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Bearing-10
Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 2 wins (2 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Bearing-10: 0 wins
Ties: 3
Fierce winrate: 40%

Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Revolve-10
Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 4 wins (4 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Revolve-10: 1 wins (1 OS)
Fierce winrate: 80%

Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Revolve-4' vs Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Bearing-10
Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Revolve-4': 0 wins
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Bearing-10: 5 wins (5 OS)
Fierce winrate: 0%

Fierce tied or won every match in the Bearing mirror matchup, while the Layer running the Revolve Armor Tip lost; due to the Opposite Spin matchup and the similar round shapes, this was more or less the expected result. Based on previous Fierce testings by others, it seems that Fierce is better suited for Same-Spin matchups. Here's some tests against Geist Fafnir, one of the top left-spin Layers in the Burst Limited format:

Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Revolve-4' vs Geist Fafnir Tapered-Q High Xtend+'
Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Revolve-4': 4 wins (4 OS)
Geist Fafnir Tapered-Q High Xtend+': 1 wins (1 OS)
Fierce winrate: 80%

Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Revolve-4' vs Geist Fafnir Wheel-SP Bearing Drift
Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Revolve-4': 2 wins (5 OS)
Geist Fafnir Wheel-SP Bearing Drift: 3 wins (3 OS)
Fierce winrate: 40%

On a tall Driver like Orbit-Q+Revolve/Kick, Fierce was an excellent Destabilizer against shorter left-spin opponents such as Geist Fafnir. On Bearing however, this effect is much less prominent:

Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Geist Fafnir Tapered-Q High Xtend+'
Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 2 wins (2 OS)
Geist Fafnir Tapered-Q High Xtend+': 3 wins (3 OS)
Fierce winrate: 40%

Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Geist Fafnir Wheel-SP Bearing Drift
Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 0 wins
Geist Fafnir Wheel-SP Bearing Drift: 5 wins (5 OS)
Fierce winrate: 0%

Fierce's ability to Destabilize Geist Fafnir reminded me of the performance of Arc Bahamut. It seems launching Fierce at an angle, which I had been doing with Arc Bahamut, allows Fierce to Destabilize better. However, it is noticeably more difficult to Destabilize a Geist Fafnir combo that is using a Drift Driver variant. Speaking of Arc Bahamut, here are some matches of Fierce against my go-to Arc Bahamut combo, that I use against left-spin Stamina Combinations:

Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Arc Bahamut 00Cross Atomic'
Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 3 wins (3 OS)
Arc Bahamut 00Cross Atomic': 3 wins (3 OS)
Fierce winrate: 50%

Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Revolve-4' vs Arc Bahamut 00Cross Atomic'
Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Revolve-4': 0 wins
Arc Bahamut 00Cross Atomic': 5 wins (5 OS)
Fierce winrate: 0%

On Bearing, whoever was launched first lost; the performance was close between the two. However, Fierce on Orbit-Q+Revolve Armor Tip lost hard to Arc Bahamut, and was unable to secure a single win in 5 rounds. I finished my testings with some rounds againt Flame Sagittario, a top tier right-spin Layer. Due to its shape, I was not expecting it to equalize against Fierce:

Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Flame Sagittario Wheel-SP High Wave'
Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 1 win (1 OS)
Flame Sagittario Wheel-SP High Wave': 1 win (1 OS)
Ties: 3
Fierce winrate: 20%

Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Revolve-4' vs Flame Sagittario Wheel-SP High Wave'
Fierce Achilles A8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Revolve-4': 0 wins
Flame Sagittario Wheel-SP High Wave': 5 wins (5 OS)
Fierce winrate: 0%

On Bearing, matches were surprisingly close. However, when the Revolve Armor Tip was used, it was no contest; Fierce cannot compete in Opposite Spin matches, especially at the same height as its opponent.

Overall

My overall conclusion is that Fierce is a solid purchase for the Burst Limited format. You can pick it up in a cheap Booster Pack with the Achilles chip, which is decent. If you want more Burst Resistance without hunting for Komet Helios' Helios Chip, you can also consider buying the Fierce Bazilisk Dual Pack, which includes the Bazilisk Chip, which is the second best left-spin Chip in terms of Burst Resistance. In terms of overall power, I would rank Fierce in the same tier as Geist Fafnir: a strong left-spin Stamina option that primarily finds use in Same-Spin matchups.

Hasbro Wheel aka HasWheel Discussion (Burst Limited)

Sat, 18 Feb 2023 20:03:18 +0000

Wow, I'm surprised this doesn't exist yet. I guess there is plenty of video footage of HasWheel for both BSL testing and tournaments, but either way I still think there is something to be gained by posting these kinds of tests.

For those who are unaware, HasWheel is the unofficial name our beloved community has given to Hasbro's release of the Wheel Disk. While the name of the Disk is still officially "Wheel", we call it differently because similarly to most of Hasbro's releases following Evolution, it has been hollowed out, changing both its appearance and performance. I'll use the names Wheel and HasWheel interchangeably in this thread but since this is the Hasbro Wheel Thread, in the BSL Subforum, where the TT Wheel has never been legal, unless otherwise stated if I say "Wheel" I'm referring to HasWheel.

Hasbro Wheels (left and right) compared to TT Wheel (center)

Takara-Tomy's Wheel seems to be on average about 30 grams, mine weighs 30.3g but I think I remember something about there being releases that supposedly have 30.2g and 30.4g Wheels more consistently? When HasWheel was preliminary tested upon its initial release it was quoted at a 25g weight, mine are 24.86g and 24.91g, so basically that. At approximately 25g, HasWheel is about the same weight as 00, about 1-1.5g heavier than 0 and 10, and about 1.5-2.5g heavier than 7. Despite outweighing all but the heaviest Core Disks, Wheel cannot hold a Frame, which adds 2-4g to the Core Disks, meaning that its weight was still reasonable for the format. Additionally, the 5 grams removed when Hasbro hollowed it out all appear to have come from its outer ring, nerfing its Stamina and also its precession. Even when compared to its predecessor Ωuter it didn't seem like HasWheel was objectively better in all situations, so it was left in the game.

Now people are saying it's too good, actually, and that if I want Tapered-Q and whatever other QD Disk might take over in its absence banned, Wheel should probably go with them. So I guess this is more like suspect testing for Wheel?

I didn't really know where to start with this, but I had to start somewhere, so I went with Atomic, since Wh.At was probably the setup I was most interested in.

Wheel Atomic:

Same Spin

Tests (Click to View)

Wheel: 17 wins (16 OS, 1 Burst)
10E: 3 wins (1 OS, 2 Burst)

Wheel defeated 10E here pretty solidly, which isn't surprising considering it's Wheel, but it was on average less burst resistant than 10E (1.4 clicks on Wheel as opposed to 1.15 on 10E). Generally this wouldn't be an issue here because both players would be using At', but it would definitely come into play on other Drivers like Drift or Xt+.

Opposite Spin

Tests (Click to View)

Green At: 14
Wheel: 13
gZ: 9
dF: 8
10E: 4
Yellow At: 3

I tried switching the parts around like I did in the same spin matchup but ended up seeing some shchrange discrepancies in performance upon doing so. dF won the first 5 rounds pretty convincingly, but when I switched the Layers, it became a lot more even. I switched the Drivers and Wheel started winning again, and then switched the Layers back and then Expand won... so while it's pretty clear that my green Atomic is better than my yellow one for LAD, it was also pretty clear that HasWheel was the better Disk, since it was tying even on the worse Driver.

So at least on Atomic, HasWheel outclasses not only Expand, but by extension, Sting, since Sting would still lose to Expand in opposite spin. Not looking too good for its BSL legality so far, but Atomic is only 1 Driver.

Revolve

Opposite Spin

Tests (Click to View)

Yellow R: 16
dC: 11
Wheel: 9
Ωuter: 8
dF: 6
Orange R (lol): 1

Wheel does not necessarily seem better than Ωuter here, though it's pretty clear something similar was going on to the At tests, see: my yellow Revolve won basically every time regardless of the other parts.

Same Spin

Tests (Click to View)

Wheel: 14 wins (13 OS, 1 KO)
Ωuter: 6 wins (5 OS, 1 KO)

Similarly to on Atomic, HasWheel dominated the otherwise optimal option for Revolve in Same Spin. And again, it was slightly less burst resistant (0.7 clicks as opposed to Ωuter's 0.6)

This made me wonder about Wh.Xt+, and also Wh.Ab-S as both of those are advertised as Revolves with more LAD, making Revolve' a reasonable addition to the game. I was more so interested in Xt+ since someone (th!nk, Dan, or Zankye, idr which) said that it especially had good synergy with HasWheel, and Xt+ is also better in opposite spin, theoretically giving the combo better coverage.

Xtend+
Same Spin

Tests (Click to View)

Xt+: 12 wins (all OS)
Revolve: 8 wins (3 OS, 5 Burst)

While Xtend+ (1.65) did burst more than Revolve (0.7) no matter which Fafnir or Wheel it was on, when it stayed together Wh.Xt+ was able to OS Wh.R about 85% of the time.

Opposite Spin

Tests (Click to View)

Wh.Xt+: 2 wins
00W.Dm-S: 5 wins
13 ties

While Dm-S seemed to win more at first, after I switched the Layers they seemed a lot more even, so like most LAD matches, your mileage may vary of course, depending on balance tuning, wear states, etc. But the point is that this combo can simultaneously compete with both hyperspecialized same spin and opposite spin variants in the same combo. Removing Wheel means that Xt+ must run 10C in order to get comparable, but worse Stamina + LAD and make even a tight Xt+/Ab-S considerably less threatening to the overall stamina meta.

I'll come back to this thread in a bit with some vs. Attack tests, which I've been hinting at with the burst resistance comparisons but I still need to finish up a few of them and format the post.

Burst Limited BSL banlist update proposal - Lower the LAD Floor

Sun, 22 Jan 2023 02:46:19 +0000

Hello everybody, this is what I guess is a long overdue primer/pitch for Burst Limited? This format, and its counterpart, Burst Classic, have been around for about 4 years now, and were actually developed at the same time around 2018, in response to the opposite spin LAD-centric Cho-Z meta.

Identity(?) of the Format

While BSC being almost entirely single spin was a huge and refreshing departure from the current state of BST at the time, the nuances between BST and BSL were a bit harder to pinpoint, especially as BST moved through what would eventually become GT format before settling back into what seems to be a more Cho-Z like state at its end. However, there are a bunch of connected concepts that I think might serve as a way to differentiate what BSL should "feel" like as opposed to BST.

1. The weight class/power level scale. Similarly to Classic, which is balanced around a Single/Dual Layer meta, BSL is balanced around a late God/early Cho-Z meta. This is an important weight class for several reasons:

When BSL was in development, this was the weight class of Layers that had been outclassed by hS/aH/CzS/pP, making them almost immediately unusable in tournament play.
This low teen-low 20g weight class is also the same weight class of every subsequent Hasbro release barring the Pro series.
Finally, and somewhat overlooked, is that this is the last major weight class where Layers are lighter than Disks. This is important for the Burst mechanic, especially once Dash Drivers come into the picture.

Without super-heavy Layers stifling nearly all of Hasbro's catalog, this restriction boasts the highest level of diversity in viable Layers out of any Burst format.

2. The low LAD Floor. For those who are unfamiliar with the term, I define it briefly here, but it is essentially the lowest amount of LAD a combo can have in order to be considered viable in a format. The LAD Floor is why something like Rubber Spike from MFB is not necessarily a viable defense tip - in the wrong matchup, even if it resists being knocked out, it can still be outspun by an opposite spin Attacker, which fundamentally breaks the Attack < Defense < Stamina triangle. As an Attacker should not win by outspin if it fails to KO/Burst its opponent, Attack must set the LAD Floor. So if your combo cannot out-LAD an opposite spin Attacker, it's not viable in a dual spin format. This is why RDF, Rage Drift, and F230GCF were so toxic in their respective formats, they threaten same spin combos offensively and... don't even need to threaten opposite spin combos offensively, because they can weak launch and pretty much auto-win due to LAD.

Many of the subtypes of combos that you see in Burst Classic, such as Mixed Attack and Burst Attack, as well as the deep Stamina sub-meta that has even been praised by MFL players, are only effective in same spin, and pretty much all of them got killgated in the original God Layer series just because opposite spin (dF on Atomic) was such a monumental force. You could not OS it in same spin, or opposite spin, because its Driver had simultaneously the best Stamina and LAD, you could not KO it consistently because it outweighed V2 by 4 grams and if dF was weak launched, its burst resistance against both spin directions would increase, as well as its KO resistance against right spin, *and* its chances cause opposing attackers to self-burst. This, essentially, gave dF, a Stamina/LAD type, a functional immunity to the burst mechanic, giving it a significant amount of "defense" as well. Although more parts were released that eventually addressed dF.At specifically, the circumstances that created its dominance persisted, and were only exacerbated by the weight creep of the generation.

As Layers got heavier, their natural burst resistance increased as they took up a larger portion of the Beyblade's matter during collisions, meaning that weak launching in same spin became less necessary and upping the functional Stamina cap of things like Atomic or Bearing. In addition, the heavier Layer is also harder to KO in opposite spin when weak launched, which, combined with the implicit burst resistance buff, increases both the overall defense and the stamina of the combo. The Cho-Z trio in particular jumped the shark on these by having Burst Stoppers, making CzS Br a pretty spammable combo even if it wasn't totally optimized. Offensive Dash Drivers like X', Z', and Qc' were a step in the right direction, as they also allowed Attack to be launched harder more safely, but their potential didn't really show until they had the proper Layers to support them (Judgement, Zwei). By this point though, most viable things had a built-in burst stopper of some sort or a Dash Driver, so at this point the combos focused on intentionally bursting the opponent that could be pulled off in BSC had basically vanished from the game, turning it into the more simple, but still good KO > Stamina <-> LAD meta you see in GT.

Where the original God era fell short, and what makes RDFless Standard, MFL, PLA/HMS, and GT so fun is the feeling of spin direction balance. Since the LAD Floor only applies to dual spin formats, and Attack must set the LAD floor, it should follow that each spin direction should have at least 1 viable Attacker (ideally, all types are present on both sides). MFL has Attack L-Drago, Defense L-Drago, Stamina L-Drago, and Gravity which can essentially sub in as any of those for left spin, giving representation to all the types. Without RDF, you can make Attack, Defense, and Stamina Dragooons, with the only thing holding you back from running a functional all left spin deck being the No Shared Parts rule. GT might not have a huge Layer pool, but there's enough to represent all types in both spin directions. Everything in Bakuten is dual spin. Meanwhile, Nightmare Longinus didn't show up until pretty late into the God season, and L2 was inconsistent without X', so the only left spin representation for most of God was dF, which as I established was essentially the best and only thing at everything not attack.

These issues with not only the God era of Burst, but just the overall interaction between dual spin and the Burst mechanic in general are what Burst Limited is attempting to address. By applying the philosophy of creating a banlist that allows for the highest amount of diversity in viable types of combos in a metagame balanced around the Late God/Early Cho-Z era, Burst Limited intends to create an inclusive format that does not particularly favor any spin direction, brand, combo type, or playstyle. This makes the format accessible as there are many different viable parts and you don't need anywhere near a complete library of them to succeed, but also incentivizes testing, exploration, and counterplay since there are so many different possible matchups. Now that left spin has a larger selection of Layers besides dF/F3 and L2 (aB, nL/L3, bL, gF, Roar, Inferno, Fierce, maybe even Erase) you have more types represented for that spin direction, essentially scaling up the BSC meta so that it works in both spin directions. Ideally, playing LAD is riskier in BSL than it would be in a heavier Burst Format simply because encountering a Stamina or Attack type specialized for a same spin matchup should be a common occurrence and not necessarily a "niche counter".

3. Spin direction tradeoff. This is different from the spin direction balance I used it earlier in the context of the LAD Floor, it refers to something I've said multiple times is one of the core balancing principles of Burst Limited: a combo must trade off same spin performance for opposite spin performance, and vise-versa. Drivers like Atomic, Revolve, Bearing, and Dimension-S are good Stamina/LAD examples of this, whereas with Attack this is less obvious: using a more KO-focused setup like nL or hK on X' gives you coverage against both spin directions, but due to lower Stamina/RPM and user error is overall not as consistent as bL Om or bX Ch' would be against a same spin opponent.

Keeping spin direction tradeoff in mind, remember that intentionally bursting an opponent is almost exclusively a same spin strategy because of how the burst mechanic works. It is difficult to intentionally burst an opposite spin opponent, because if you are attempting to do so, it would be because you lose by LAD, in which case they would be weak launching, decreasing their chance of bursting and increasing yours. Having a combo with both high LAD and high burst resistance is inherently more OP than having high stamina and high LAD, or high Stamina and high Burst resistance, because while a high LAD/high BR combo cannot be reliably bursted or OSed in either spin direction, and by nature the only other answer, KO Attack, is unreliable, whereas a high Stam/high LAD combo can be consistently bursted by a same spin Burst Attacker and a high Stam/high BR combo can be consistently OSed by an opposite spin LAD type.

History
When Limited was first introduced, right at the beginning of the pandemic, the LAD Floor was a lot lower than it was today. Destroy' and Xtend+ were banned, and Mobius had not even been released. After 1 tournament, Ds' got unbanned because apparently gF Ds was having trouble beating F3 Dm-S? I'm not sure if there is more to that but I think Shadow Amaterios captured most of our attention back then - it was on the watchlist for several months before being banned after it dominated several tournaments on At, Br, and later Drift.

Mobius, Zn'+Z, and Drift all made huge splashes in Burst Standard and the popularity of the latter two carried over to Limited, so much so that there were calls to ban them. While I wasn't so sure that any of them were really as broken as they had been made out to be, Zn'+Z stood out to me as the only Dash Driver of the bunch. Though it didn't always have the best LAD, on some setups, it was still able to compete on mostly even footing with Drivers that did... while also having the benefit of the Dash Driver spring, which not only increases its burst resistance but also same spin stamina. While it was certainly able to be beaten by KO Attackers, opposite spin max LAD, and some same spin Stamina combos, it still had very safe, reliable coverage against most of the meta and stifled a bunch of other Drivers, and I think that overall it wasn't healthy and that banning it was the right move.

Unfortunately, that was only the beginning of a series of shark-jumping LAD Drivers: Zn'+Z was soon followed up by HXt+', Bearing', Metal Drift, Bearing Drift, Metal Bearing Drift, Bearing Mobius, and now finally Hasbro Bearing has been unbanned to keep up with the TT releases. This resulted in a massive oversaturation of Drivers that have some combination of: a high amount of Stamina, a high amount of burst resistance, and a high amount of LAD. These parts remained in the game not because people really wanted them there, but because there wasn’t enough of an argument or a push to ban them. This might be a fault of using tournament results as a primary way of evaluating whether something is banworthy. The argument for this was that if something was broken, then people would want to use it and it would dominate tournaments, thus proving its broken-ness, but in reality, when people have multiple formats competing for their attention and wallet, they would rather just opt not to play the one being “ruined” by the currently broken part. Having been released during the height of the pandemic, BSL already had a pretty sparse tournament count, so by the time it was being played all of these new Drivers that were left legal by default were kind of obfuscating the base form of the format.

However, now that Burst is officially over, and no new parts are being released, I actually think this is the best time to iron out any kinks in the restricted format banlists. First and foremost, I personally think Limited needs a huge scaleback on legal Drivers - I hope I've already gone into sufficient depth as to why Drivers that have both high amounts of burst resistance and LAD are extremely problematic for the game, so those should be no surprise, but there are also a few other Drivers I want to see banned because they set the LAD Floor too high for this format - they mandate a level of LAD that severely limits both the number and type of Drivers that can be used:

Ban:
Bearing Drift: Even if it can be KOed and bursted, it still overcentralizes the Stamina and LAD meta far too much.
Metal Bearing Drift: probably, I can't imagine it performing too fundamentally different from BDr
Bearing Mobius: probably, for good measure. Although it hasn't disrupted the format yet, the kind of inaction that would keep it legal is part of the reason why BSL is in the situation it's in.
High Xtend+': Pretty self explanatory, same boat as Zn'+Z for me
Hasbro Br: Unbanning this made sense in context, but it is a step in the wrong direction imo
Destroy': This is going to be a contentious one, but I've already given a bit of an explanation on Ds' in the LAD Floor post. As an Attack Driver, Ds' just sets the LAD Floor too high, meaning that if your Attacker uses Ds', they will auto win against Defense, and even some Stamina Drivers like Ab-S and At, in opposite spin. I kind of hate to see it go, because there are a few quirky Layers that can make tasteful use of it (dC, aB, bK), but ultimately I think allowing the dash version does BSL more harm than good.

Do not Ban:
Metal Drift/Drift: This might be another contentious opinion but I've always thought the normal strength spring of Dr/MDr and its tendency to go into 'death orbit' are significant enough drawbacks that it can stay. With Attack getting the Dash Driver buff I'm not so sure a nerfed spring for LAD is entirely necessary.
Bearing': Same as above, minus the death orbit part.
Atomic': I've gone over why high Stam/high BR is not gamebreaking, At' is also very responsive to launch and can be used as a pseudo-Burst Defense type as well as Stamina
Wave': This one seems fine. Like, I remember having Wave and Ab-S as about equal, so Wv' should not be any better than a tight Ab-S, which already exists just fine?
High Wave': I don't really know anything about this one, but I can't imagine it being better than Wv' in this format?

Unban:
Xt+: Xt+ probably never should have been banned. While during the Cho-Z era when this format was developed it certainly was used on high LAD/high BR combos while also having high Stamina but that was more due to the heavier Layers.

Do not unban:
Zn'+Z: I stand by what I said earlier, it's not unbeatable and it can lose to multiple types of combo, but I think having these kinds of Drivers gone will really open up the format in terms of what types of combos are usable.

On top of these Drivers, there are a few other parts that fall under the "legal by default but maybe should not be" umbrella - namely Whirl, Gambit, Tp-Q, and the QD tips - but that's another discussion for later, if the format even makes it that far. If we do go ahead and make such radical changes to the Driver banlist I think we should wait to see how the format adjusts before banning anything else, except maybe Whirl... I think BSL will definitely be healthier with these Drivers gone, but I can't say for sure whether their absence will make these other problematic parts less problematic, so we should still keep an eye on them imo.

And that's about it. Sorry this was such a long post, and that it was all over the place, but I think it at least partially explains about how the issues of Burst made Burst Limited the way it is. For what it's worth, despite its unpopularity, I really think it has the potential to be a format that can be seen the culmination of the Burst series over the years - one that does the burst mechanic "right" rather than leaning into the series' design flaws that treat it as an afterthought to be avoided.

Gambit Dragon D8 Testing and Discussion

Sat, 17 Dec 2022 03:31:54 +0000

Gambit Dragon D8 Competitive Testing & Discussion

I recently obtained Hasbro’s ugly-assin Gambit Dragon D8 and have done a bit of testing. Testings were 10 rounds each, with alternating launches. The Pro Series BeyStadium was used, and the Launchers used were both the Power Custom BeyLauncher LR.

Preface

Gambit Dragon D8 is similar in shape to Hasbro’s 2021 SpeedStorm System Layer, Triumph Dragon D6. Triumph Dragon D6 has already found success in the Burst Limited Format as a good Hasbro Stamina Type Layer option, due to its mix of Defense and Stamina traits. Comparing weights between the two Layers:

Triumph (10.8 grams) + Dragon Storm Chip (3.0 grams) = 13.8 grams Layer total
Gambit (9.6 grams) + Dragon Strike Chip (5.0 grams) + 4/4' Gravity Ring (1.7 grams) = 16.3 grams Layer total
Gambit (9.6 grams) + Dragon Strike Chip (5.0 grams) + G13 Gravity Ring (“Greatest Armor”) (3.2 grams) = 17.8 grams Layer total

With the G13 Gravity Ring (“Greatest Armo”), Gambit Dragon D8 G13 is 0.4 grams heavier than the pre-QuadStrike record holder for the heaviest Hasbro slopes Layer, Turbo Achilles A4.

With this in mind, I referred to Wombat’s 2021 Triumph testing thread, and matched against similar opponents, however using Tapered-Q instead of Outer for Gambit Dragon D8, and Hasbro’s Wheel instead of Outer for the opponents. Prior to more in-depth testing, I found that Low Mode was generally preferable to High Mode as it was less elevated. With that being said, High Mode is not bad per se, just not optimal when compared to Low Mode, as the latter opens up access to Discs like Tapered-Q. No, I am not calling it Apex and Core Mode.

First off, a test against Hercules H4:

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Eternal-S-10 vs Hercules H4 Wheel (Hasbro) Eternal-S
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Eternal-S-10: 7 wins (7 OS)
Hercules H4 Wheel (Hasbro) Eternal-S: 3 wins (3 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 70%

For this test, I also alternated Eternal-S (gold and green) between the two combinations halfway through the matches. However, there was no noticeable Stamina difference, and neither Combination Burst despite the difference in Driver Burst Resistance.

At this point we must address…

G13 Gravity Ring (“Greatest Armor”)

The G13 Gravity Ring, aka the "Greatest Armor" and colloquially referred to as the “R Gear” as coined by , is a unique Gravity Ring released with Glory Regnar R7. Although seemingly designed for the Glory QD Blade, there are currently no restrictions or guidelines from Hasbro about its usage. G13 can fit underneath most QD/QS Blades, providing additional weight and stability, as it compensates for the hollow undersides of QD/QS Blades. Due to the way G13 sits underneath Blades, it slightly increases the distance between the Chip slopes and the Driver, while the Disc pushes against G13. This interaction results in higher Burst Resistance that varies depending on the QD/QS Blade and Disc being used. This effect is most prominent on Discs with thick topsides, such as Nexus-Q and Qq-Q.

G13 has been primarily used to provide increased Burst Resistance to Attack Type QD/QS Blades such as Salvage and Xiphoid, which lacked the Burst Resistance necessary to handle their own high recoil. However, this is not the case for Gambit, as it lacks much of a hanging underside, and thus there is little to no Burst Resistance increase from G13 - there is simply no pressure being created. Furthermore, due to the wide shape of Gambit, the protrusions of G13 are covered and do not make any meaningful contact with the opponent or the stadium floor.

Prior to any testing, I had this question: How much of a difference does G13 make in terms of Stamina performance?

The answer is…a little yet meaningful bit. Here’s the previous test against Hercules H4, but now with G13 instead of 10:

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Eternal-S-G13 vs Hercules H4 Wheel (Hasbro) Eternal-S
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Eternal-S-G13: 8 wins (8 OS)
Hercules H4 Wheel (Hasbro) Eternal-S: 2 wins (2 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 80%

Getting one additional win is not much, so at this point it seemed that G13 was not essential for Gambit’s performance. The battles were not close either, as there was always a clear winner.

Here’s some tests against Flame Sagittario:

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Atomic-10 vs Flame Sagittario Wheel (Hasbro) Atomic’
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Atomic-10: 0 wins
Flame Sagittario Wheel (Hasbro) Atomic’: 10 wins (10 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 0%

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Atomic-G13 vs Flame Sagittario Wheel (Hasbro) Atomic’
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Atomic-G13: 1 wins (1 OS)
Flame Sagittario Wheel (Hasbro) Atomic’: 9 wins (9 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 10%

As was the case with Triumph Dragon D6, Gambit Dragon D8 did not perform well, with G13 only once again providing 1 additional win that I can chock up to a fluke. However, I did note in the G13 battles that it seemed to tilt less than when 10 was in use. If you are running Gambit and Attack Type QD/QS Blades in the same deck, I would suggest saving G13 for your Attack Combinations. If you are solely running Gambit and no other QD/QS Blades, then I recommend using G13 to give it that extra little kick.

For good measure, I also put it up against Caynox C3, which is probably the best right-spin Hasbro Stamina Layer I have:

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Eternal-S-G13 vs Caynox C3 Wheel (Hasbro) Eternal-S
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Eternal-S-G13: 8 wins (8 OS)
Caynox C3 Wheel (Hasbro) Eternal-S: 2 wins (2 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 80%

The performance was pretty close to the Hercules H4 matchup, but I also noticed that Gambit was destabilizing Caynox C3 pretty consistently, which I assume is due to the width of Gambit.

At this point, I realized that Gambit Dragon D8 was reminiscent of the recently banned Driger V2 Layer.

"Diet Driger V2"

I tried a match with similar parts (High Xtend+’ vs Orbit-Q+Xtend+). The Xtend+ Armor Tip was very close to High Xtend+’ in terms of height:

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Xtend+-10 vs Driger V2 Tapered-Q High Xtend+’
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Xtend+-10: 1 wins (1 OS)
Driger V2 Tapered-Q High Xtend+’: 9 wins (9 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 10%
3 Ties (too close to determine)

This matchup was very, very close, but Driger V2 won 9 times, and Gambit only once. There were three matches that were too close to call. With these testings done, I moved onto repeating this, albeit with G13, and the results were interesting:

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Xtend+-G13 vs Driger V2 Tapered-Q High Xtend+’
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Xtend+-G13: 6 wins (6 OS)
Driger V2 Tapered-Q High Xtend+’: 4 wins (4 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 60%
No ties

With G13, it seems the slight increase in weight, stability, and Stamina, allowed Gambit to edge out wins against Driger V2 in this particular matchup, with it being less close than before.

December 22, 2022 update: I've done additional tests against Driger V2, which can be found below.

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Bearing-G13 vs Driger V2 Tapered-Q Bearing’
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Bearing-G13: 0 wins
Driger V2 Tapered-Q Bearing’: 10 wins (10 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 0%

Gambit lost very hard in this matchup. Bearing variance aside, it seems that Gambit G13 is strictly inferior to Driger V2 in a mirror match, which is not too shocking considering the 4 gram weight difference and smoother perimeter of Driger V2.

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Assault-Q+Kick+-G13 vs Driger V2 Tapered-Q Bearing’
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Assault-Q+Kick-G13: 5 wins (5 OS)
Driger V2 Tapered-Q Bearing': 5 wins (5 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 50%

It seems that Gambit performs as a better Triumph against Driger V2. I personally could not Triumph to work consistently in Driger V2 matchups, but I was able to get Gambit to 50% winrate with a few close matches. This reaffirms in my mind that Gambit is Triumph, but better.

Next I moved onto some Geist Opposite Spin tests:

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Xtend+-G13 vs Geist Fafnir Tapered-Q High Xtend+’
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Orbit-Q+Xtend+-G13: 2 wins (2 OS)
Geist Fafnir Tapered-Q High Xtend+’: 3 wins (3 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 60%
Six Ties

Its equalization performance reminds me of Driger V2 vs Geist matchups that occurred in two previous tournaments. Geist seems to only Spin Equalize this well against wider Layers like Gambit and Driger V2.

Gambit Dragon D8 is essentially a heavier, more Burst Resistant (due to its Chip options vs Dragon D6), and stronger version of Triumph Dragon overall. I will probably follow this up with some Attack Type tests as well, as I have a Burst Limited Format tournament tomorrow. It is, in my opinion, a straight upgrade to Triumph and a diet Hasbro version of Driger V2. I don't think it's close to banworthy, but it's definitely a strong option for the format.

Inb4 Hasbro Wind is better

Update June 10, 2023: It's been a few months since Hasbro's Wind (Whirl) was released, and I've taken the time to do some proper testing and documentation.

First, I'll start with a mirror match:

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4'
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 4 wins (4 OS)
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 6 wins (6 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 40%

Note that these matches were done with varying launching angles as well; both Gambit and Whirl got wins in a variety of launches and who launched first did not matter, nor which Bearing/Tapered-Q was used. Ties were not counted. My sense is that the two Blades are fairly even in terms of Same-Spin Stamina, in the same manner of Takara Tomy's Dynamite (F Gear) and Wind in the Burst Standard format. In terms of Opposite-Spin Stamina, High Mode Whirl seemed more effective than High Mode Gambit against Layers such as Drain Fafnir and Geist Fafnir.

To finish off these tests, I wanted to see how Gambit stacked up against Attackers compared to Whirl. I used Hasbro's Xiphoid as the benchmark.

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Unite-4' vs Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Unite-4': 3 wins (3 OS)
Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13: 2 wins (2 KO)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 60%

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Unite-4' vs Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Unite-4': 2 wins (2 OS)
Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13: 3 wins (3 KO)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 40%

Granted the sample size is small, but it appears to me at least that Gambit has a better time tanking hits from Xiphoid than Whirl did.

Appendix: Dragon D8 Strike Chip

Similar to QuadDrive’s Evo Belfyre B7 and Perseus P7 Drive Chips, the Dragon D8 Strike Chip has high Burst Resistance, although it is not as high as the top tier HyperSphere GT Chips. The slope is where Dragon D8 gets a bit odd: while something like Perseus P7 takes the entire length of the slope to Burst like a normal Layer, Dragon D8 Bursts slightly before the end of the slope. With that being said, the middle of the slope is very tight - compared to Perseus P7, which has consistent high Burst Resistance along the slope, albeit weaker than Dragon D8’s tight middle section of its slope. For Attack Types you’d probably want to run Perseus P7 just to have more slope to work with, since recoil and multiple hits probably means it’ll click more than a Stamina Type. I feel like Dragon D8 works best on Stamina Combinations, where the first few “clicks” or slides are more difficult.

Bearing (Hasbro) Testing and Discussion

Mon, 05 Dec 2022 07:36:28 +0000

With Hasbro's Bearing Driver hovering around on the watchlist, I have done some tests to give people a reference point when gauging its ban status. Particularly, I was looking to see how well it did against dF/gF and other Stamina Layers like C3 and H4. Testings took place in a legal (albeit not ideal) Pro Stadium, so please note that when considering the results. Ties were disregarded.

10 rounds each for gF/dF matches.

Geist Fafnir Wheel (Hasbro) Bearing Drift vs Fafnir F3 Tapered-Q Bearing (Hasbro)
gF.Wh.BDr: 6 wins (6 OS)
F3.Tp-Q.Br: 4 wins (3 OS, 1 Burst)
F3.Tp-Q.Br win rate: 40%

Geist Fafnir Wheel (Hasbro) Zone'+Z vs Fafnir F3 Tapered-Q Bearing (Hasbro)
gF.Wh.Zn'+Z: 4 wins (4 OS)
F3.Tp-Q.Br: 6 wins (6 OS)
F3.Tp-Q.Br win rate: 60%

Drain Fafnir Wheel (Hasbro) Zone'+Z vs Fafnir F3 Tapered-Q Bearing (Hasbro)
dF.Wh.Zn'+Z: 4 wins (4 OS)
F3.Tp-Q.Br: 6 wins (6 OS)
F3.Tp-Q.Br win rate: 60%

5 rounds each for gF vs various Hasbro Stamina Layers.

Geist Fafnir Wheel (Hasbro) Zone'+Z vs Caynox C3 Tapered-Q Bearing (Hasbro)
gF.Wh.Zn'+Z: 0 wins
C3.Tp-Q.Br: 5 wins (5 OS)
C3.Tp-Q.Br win rate: 100%

Geist Fafnir Wheel (Hasbro) Zone'+Z vs Jinnius J3 Tapered-Q Bearing (Hasbro)
gF.Wh.Zn'+Z: 1 win (1 OS)
J3.Tp-Q.Br: 4 wins (4 OS)
J3.Tp-Q.Br win rate: 80%

Geist Fafnir Wheel (Hasbro) Zone'+Z vs Hercules H4 Tapered-Q Bearing (Hasbro)
gF.Wh.Zn'+Z: 0 wins
H4.Tp-Q.Br: 5 wins (5 OS)
H4.Tp-Q.Br win rate: 100%

Some banned stuff. 5 rounds each.

Driger V2 Tapered-Q High Xtend+' vs Fafnir F3 Tapered-Q Bearing (Hasbro)
DRV2.Tp-Q.HXt+': 1 win (1 OS)
F3.Tp-Q.Br: 4 wins (4 OS)
F3.Tp-Q.Br win rate: 80%

Geist Fafnir Wheel (Hasbro) Zone'+Z vs Turbo Spryzen S4 (Left) Tapered-Q Bearing (Hasbro)
gF.Wh.Zn'+Z: 4 win (4 OS)
tS4.Tp-Q.Br: 1 wins (1 OS)
tS4.Tp-Q.Br win rate: 20%

Geist Fafnir Wheel (Hasbro) Zone'+Z vs Turbo Spryzen S4 (Right) Tapered-Q Bearing (Hasbro)
gF.Wh.Zn'+Z: 3 win (3 OS)
tS4.Tp-Q.Br: 2 wins (2 OS)
tS4.Tp-Q.Br win rate: 40%

Overall I think HasBearing is a very strong Stamina Driver that would give Hasbro Stamina Combinations a very strong tool. This is also considering TT have access to a wide range of Same and Opposite Spin Driver options that I think only HasBearing matches. On the other hand, HasBearing outclasses almost every other Hasbro Driver in terms of raw Stamina imo. Due to variance, I am unsure if my HasBearing is particularly good - it can edge out Opposite Spin matchups with a random rotation at the end. I will note that I have been unable to reproduce similar (winning) results with dF (TT) and Bearing'. The F3's used are the green (Starter) and blue (Spin Shifter) releases.

Turbo Achilles A4 Testing and Discussion

Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:16:24 +0000

With the semi-recent unban of Turbo Achilles A4 in Burst Limited, I decided to do some tests. I will be testing the attack potential, and may do defense/stamina testing later.

All tests are done in the B-33 stadium, with two power gear DB launchers. In tA4 will be launched second in attack tests. tA4 will be launched at a bank. Ten rounds per test.

Turbo Achilles A4 0Bump Xtreme vs Drain Fafnir 0Wall Bearing’
tA4.0B.X: 30% (2 KO, 1 Burst)
dF.0W.Br’: 70% (5 OS, 1 Burst, 1 KO)

Turbo Achilles A4 0Bump Hunter-S vs Drain Fafnir 0Wall Bearing’
tA4.0B.Hn-S: 40% (2 Burst, 2 KO)
dF.0W.Br’: 60% (2 OS, 4 KO)

Hunter-S is definitely the better pick for tA4, due to it’s increased speed and better banking abilities than Xtreme (in this case). It does require early hits, but because of the few attacks it can get in as well as the wall saves, it’s a bit riskier. Before testing against the beast of gF.0L.Ω, I’d like to try Destroy.

Turbo Achilles A4 0Bump Destroy vs Drain Fafnir 0Wall Bearing’
tA4.0B.Ds: 56.25% (2 KO, 4 Burst, 3 OS)
dF.0W.Br’: 6.25% (1 KO)
6 Ties: 37.5% (6 OS)

Destroy so far is the best driver for tA4. It allows the layer to make more consistent contact, allows the option of stalling (not used in the test), and has fairly good LAD. tA4 has decent anti-spin equalization abilities, which is great against dF builds. I will do a test against gF.0L.Ω with Destroy and see how it goes.

Turbo Achilles A4 0Bump Destroy vs Geist Fafnir 0Lift (Up) Ωcta
tA4.0B.Ds: 37.5% (4 OS 2 KO)
gF.0L.Ω: 25% (4 KO)
6 Ties: 37.5% (6 OS)

tA4 definitely has a favorable matchup. The only way it loses is if it gets a random critical hit, but can’t fully KO gF. That enables gF to go back to the center while killing everything in it’s path, due to it’s heavy weight. If tA4 starts stalling, the most likely outcome is a tie or a tA4 OS.

From the current testing, it definitely seems that tA4 has a very good opposite spin matchup against Bearing tier LAD combos and non-rubber KO defense types. My next set of tests will be against right spin layers such as Twin Nemesis and Tide Treptune T3, and Drain Fafnir on Drift.

Expand+destroy/destroy’ Top tier LAD potential?

Mon, 03 Jan 2022 20:57:51 +0000

I didn’t know where else to say this, and in burst discs are low so destroys lad is worse, classic you don’t have to worry about lad because the only left bey bursts easy. I’ve been playing around with the classic Twin Nemesis 00 expand destroy’ (upper) and Imperial DragonII 00 expand destroy’ and while they don’t beat thing like Geist on drift or master left on drift the setup has really come to surprise me when it comes to opposite spin recently. I’ve had the imperial combo mentioned above tie with things like master spriggan (left) 7 wall bearing’, around bearing’, around rise (awakened), 00 wall bearing’, 0 cross Xtend+ (worn) and some other stuff. It’s safe to say it loses against drift but against other top tier LAD drivers a tad below drift it does very well. I haven’t done any formal sort of testing but I’ve done around 10 ish battles with each setup for both limited (the twin nemesis variant) and BGT (imperial variant) and it is consistently tying with them. It makes me wonder, the plastic spike piece on the tip of destroy, what if that could be worn down? It’s quite thick and it’s plastic so it definitely would take more time than things like bearing especially for those who don’t have a musou stadium like myself, but if it could be worn down the free-spinning plate could become lower to the ground possibly making it better (with the help of expand) than top tier LAD setups and possibly even go toe to toe with drift! I personally don’t like the 2 combos much but I feel like I just have to use them because of how versatile I’ve seen them be from tests and what not. Has anyone reading this tried wearing down destroy or has the same results LAD wise?

I think we need to unban the Cosmo layer base with the Gen weight.

Thu, 23 Dec 2021 00:04:38 +0000

I think we need to put Cosmo in the Burst Limited format because many people liked Cosmo because of competitive use. But however, many tournaments ban Cosmo because it's weak to any combo. But if you use the correct parts, it will kinda win any match-up.

This is my combo that has one of the safest combos in the metagame:

Cosmo Achilles.0Wall.Bearing. Gen

Feel free to test this combo against opposite spin and attack since I don't have many parts in Limited.

General Attack Layers Testing and Discussion Burst Limited

Sun, 19 Sep 2021 20:22:06 +0000

Side note: I don’t have any rubber attack drivers besides evolution’, and I’m not destroying my teeth using metal xtreme on this

Stationary-ish attacker combo test

Z Achilles 00 dagger octa vs Alter Chronos 10 bump atomic (balanced mode)
Achilles (2 OS, 2 BF) 40%
Chronos (6 OS) 60%
1 double burst
Side note, the 2 outspins achilles got was by destabilizing chronos

Vs twin nemesis (smash) outer orbit metal
Achilles (4 KOs) 40%
Nemesis (3 OS, 3 KO) 60%
It’s worth noting that the rounds where Achilles did get the KO, nemesis was very close to bursting. Also, when nemesis got the KO it was because it deflected Achilles in a way. I feel like Achilles does really well against right stamina/defense hybrids as I’ve seen so far, you just have to get good hits.

Lost Longinus Testing and Discussion

Sun, 19 Sep 2021 02:05:21 +0000

Everyone always talks about nL and bL, and while those two are definitely powerful attackers, L2 always gets a bit lost, like Lost Long, in comparison, even though it saw semi-consistent usage throughout the God Layer era, even appearing at least once after nL was released. I decided to see how it stacked up to the other two Longini (mostly bL, since L2 seems more suited as a mixed attacker rather than a KO attacker).

Lost Longinus 10Reach Quick' vs Drain Fafnir 00Wall Drift
L2.10R.Qc': 5 wins (1 KO, 4 OS)
dF.00W.Dr: 15 wins (2 KO, 13 OS)
1 tie redone
L2.10R.Qc' win rate: 25%

It was getting hits, the hits just weren't doing very much. L2 would occasionally get a critical hit, but early game it would take more recoil than it could dish out, and mid-late game it just wasn't enough to KO.

I don't think dF ever lost more than 2 clicks, so I decided to switch to Hn' for more controllability/Burst Attack.
Lost Longinus Ωuter Hunter' vs Drain Fafnir 00Wall Drift
L2.Ω.Hn': 8 wins (3 KO, 4 Burst, 1 OS)
dF.00W.Dr: 12 wins (1 KO, 11 OS)
L2.Ω.Hn' win rate: 40%

Compare to this benchmark with bL:
LC Bloody Longinus Ωuter Hunter' vs Drain Fafnir 00Wall Drift
bL.Ω.Hn': 10 wins (2 KO, 3 Burst, 5 OS)
dF.00W.Dr: 10 wins (1 KO, 9 OS)
dF.00W.Dr win rate: 50%

Hn' was a significant improvement on L2, but I didn't find it to be quite as good as bL. I feel like L2's effectiveness drops off very quickly in comparison to bL, even against a same spin opponent it needs to win in the first couple of hits, whereas bL still has a chance for a late game burst or destabilization.

I also did some benchmarks with Myth and gZ for reference:
Myth Dragon2 5Cross Xtreme vs Galaxy Zeus 00Wall Drift
MDr.5C.X: 11 wins (5 KO, 3 OS, 3 Burst)
gZ.00W.Dr: 9 wins (2 KO, 6 OS, 1 Burst)
MDr.5C.X win rate: 55%

Myth Dragon2 5Cross Xtreme vs Drain Fafnir 00Wall Drift
MDr.5C.X: 2 wins (KO)
dF.00W.Dr: 8 wins (OS)
MDr.5C.X win rate: 20%

Lost Longinus Ωuter Hunter' vs Galaxy Zeus 00Wall Drift
L2.Ω.Hn': 1 win (KO)
gZ.00W.Dr: 9 wins (OS)
L2.Ω.Hn' win rate: 10%

It seems to be not totally useless, but imo not viable in Limited. I don't think I would use L2 over bL, nL, Myth, or tN.

Bearing vs Drift vs Dimension-S: Defense Test

Wed, 08 Sep 2021 00:45:08 +0000

These are the most well known max LAD Drivers in Limited, so on the right combo they should be able to OS anything opposite spin besides another max LAD combo. Due to the nature of the Burst mechanic, they are also very difficult to burst for an opposite spin opponent, especially when weak launched. Therefore, the most consistent way, at least in terms of player agency, to defeat them in opposite spin is by KO.

I used dF and F3 for these since they are a lot closer performance wise than dC and C3 are, imo. hK is the best right spin Attacker to use against left spin, so that's what I used to try and make the combos as similar as possible. Unfortunately, my X' is slowing down in its old age, and it seems like all of my launchers are starting to wear out. The one I used is some technically illegal abomination that I had to combine a few days ago - it uses parts from a B-88 LR, Long LR from Cho-Z Achilles, and a Dual Threat, and at best cannot launch harder than a stock long LR (and even then, it still felt underpowered), so maybe I should look into getting one of the DB Launchers.

Hazard Kerbeus 7Dagger Xtreme' vs Drain Fafnir 00Wall Bearing
hK.7D.X': 10 wins (all KO)
dF.00W.Br: 10 wins (all OS)
dF.00W.Br win rate: 50%

Hazard Kerbeus 7Dagger Xtreme' vs Fafnir F3 00Wall Dimension-S
hK.7D.X': 11 wins (9 KO, 2 0S)
F3.00W.Dm-S: 9 wins (all OS)
F3.00W.Dm-S win rate: 45%

Hazard Kerbeus 7Dagger Xtreme' vs Drain Fafnir 00Wall Drift
hK.7D.X': 8 wins (all KO)
dF.00W.Dr: 12 wins (all OS)
dF.00W.Dr win rate: 60%

Overall, they seemed to be pretty similar at resisting KOs - on the rare occasion that I got the launch angle right with hK and my launcher didn't skip, it would violently kick them out of the stadium in one hit. Drift seemed slightly better at surviving mid-game hits than the others, one of the Bearing KOs was mid-game, whereas Drift tended to move back less in general. I also had a more difficult time sending Drift into "death orbit" compared to Dm-S, which actually scraped out a few times, though my Drift is on the more passive side to begin with (I did not have many issues with nL Drift going into death orbit when I tested it).

With two questionable ways to defeat them in opposite spin, another hallmark of these max LAD combos is that they have poor stamina or burst resistance, to make them unappealing to play in same spin and balance out their theoretical advantage against opposite spin. Bearing is known for its weak spring, Dm-S and Drift are known to have poor same spin Stamina and a tendency to self-KO or scrape out. I decided to test them against an all-around left spin Attacker, bL.Ω.Hn'.

LC Bloody Longinus Ωuter Hunter' vs Drain Fafnir 00Wall Bearing
bL.Ω.Hn': 17 wins (3 KO, 13 Burst, 1 OS)
dF.00W.Br: 3 wins (all OS)
dF.00W.Br win rate: 15%

LC Bloody Longinus Ωuter Hunter' vs Fafnir F3 00Wall Dimension-S
bL.Ω.Hn': 15 wins (4 KO, 5 Burst, 6 0S)
F3.00W.Dm-S: 5 wins (1 KO, 4 OS)
F3.00W.Dm-S win rate: 25%

LC Bloody Longinus Ωuter Hunter' vs Drain Fafnir 00Wall Drift
bL.Ω.Hn': 10 wins (2 KO, 3 Burst, 5 OS)
dF.00W.Dr: 10 wins (1 KO, 9 OS)
dF.00W.Dr win rate: 50%

Drift once again performed the best. Its burst resistance was significantly better than Bearing's, even when hard launched, and once again it had a lower chance of going into death orbit than Dimension-S. The times it did, though, neither of them were able to recover from it as bL is also left spin.

Triumph Competitive Testing & Discussion

Wed, 01 Sep 2021 00:32:32 +0000

I could've swore I saw a thread for this already, but apparently not. Sorry that this isn't a whole discussion starter but I just intended to add my own tests. I've only done stamina so far, who knows when I'll get to the rest. I did the normal stamina thing for all of these with the alternating launches and swapping parts.

Triumph Dragon Ωuter Eternal-S vs Hercules H4 Ωuter Eternal-S
TD.Ω.Et-S: 7 wins (6 OS, 1 Burst)
H4.Ω.Et-S: 4 wins (all OS)
TD.Ω.Et-S win rate: 63%

The only thing I think this proved for sure is that my yellow Et-S is better than my gold one, which matches up with what I observed here in some related benchmarks. The yellow Et-S won 91% of the time, I think it may be because the tip is a little more awoken and does not get as destabilized as easily. Triumph was able to burst H4 once (I changed that to a bonus round since I was only trying to measure stamina) and managed one OS using the gold Et-S, so I think it might be marginally better stamina wise than H4 on cone-shaped Drivers?

Triumph Dragon Ωuter Atomic vs Flame Sagittario Ωuter Atomic
TD.Ω.At: 1 win (OS)
FS.Ω.At: 9 wins (all OS)
1 tie redone
TD.Ω.At win rate: 10%

I didn't have a second Hasbro Atomic for H4, and TT is kind of lacking in a right spin Defense/Stamina hybrid, so I used FS instead, which is more similar to T3. The matches had varying degrees of closeness but FS almost always won. The one time it didn't was when FS' Atomic caught on the tornado ridge and slammed it into a wall (and even then Triumph barely won). There were a few almost-KOs, and Flame would consistently lose 1-2 clicks but neither of them bursted.

Triumph might directly outclass aZ3 as a middle option between H4's defense and T3's stamina, imo.

Beyblade Burst Limited Format Tier List

Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:19:15 +0000

Beyblade Burst Limited Format Tier List
in progress
In Addition to Tier, Strengths, Weaknesses and Recommended Combos will be Written
Btw I'm just making random names for driver families lol

Energy Layers:

Tier 1:
Drain Fafnir (Strengths: Stamina, Spin Steal)
Legend Spriggan (Burst Attack)
Maximum Garuda (Stamina, Burst Defence, Knock Out Defence)
Sieg Xcalibur (Burst Attack, Knock Out Attack)
Nightmare Longinus (Knock Out Attack)
Deep Chaos (Stamina, Destability)
Beat Kukulcan (Burst Attack)
Twin Nemesis (Mixed Attack, Destability)
Bloody Longinus (Mixed Attack)
Buster Xcalibur (Burst Attack)
Hazard Kerbeus (Knock Out Attack)
Geist Fafnir (Stamina, Knock Out Defence)

Tier 2:
Blaze Ragnaruk (Stamina)
Alter Chronos (Burst Defence)
Galaxy Zeus (Jack-of-all-trades)
Guardian Kerbeus (Stamina)
Arc Bahamut (Stamina)
Z Achilles (Knock Out Attack)
Right αrtemis (Knock Out Defence)

Tier 3:
God Valkyrie (Knock Out Attack)
Kreis Satan (Burst Defence, Knock Out Defence)
Tornado Wyvern (No Strengths)
Killer Deathscyther (Destabilisation)
Blast Jinnius (No Strengths)
Ωrichalcum (No Strengths)
Shadow Ωrichalcum (No Strengths)
Shelter Regulus (No Strengths)
Strike God Valkyrie (Burst Attack)

Forge Discs:

Tier 1:
0 (Centralised Weight Distribution, High Weight)
00 (High Outward Weight Distribution, High Weight)
7 (High Outward Weight Distribution, High Weight)
10 (High Outward Weight Distribution, High Weight)

Tier 2:
Ωuter (High Outward Weight Distribution, Bad Weight, High Life After Death)
1 (Decent Weight, Imbalance)
2 (Decent Weight, Jack-of-all-trades)
4 (Decent Outward Weight Distribution, Decent Weight)
5 (Decent Outward Weight Distribution, Decent Weight)
8 (Extreme Outward Weight Distribution, Decent Weight)

Tier 3:
1' (Decent Weight, Slight Imbalance)
3 (No Strengths)
6 (No Strengths)
8'
11 (No Strengths)
12 (No Strengths)
13 (No Strengths)
αero' (No Strengths)

Disc Frames:

Tier 1:
Glaive
Cross
Bump
Star
Lift
Dagger
Proof
Turn
Wall
Expand

Tier 2:
Vortex
Meteor
Flow
Under
Hit
Reach

Update: Roughly done layers and forge discs, will need editin

Zone'+Z banned for Burst Limited proposal

Thu, 05 Aug 2021 00:19:25 +0000

So I have a proposal to ban zone’ + z in burst limited. Unlike drift, this driver basically has no weaknesses. It’s life after death is very close to drift, it has excellent defense, it won’t burst cause it’s a dash driver, it moves around and can attack, and it has really good same spin stamina. All of this into one driver makes it overpowered. In standard, nothing is banned so you can’t really complain especially since in standard Dynamite beys make drift have good same spin due to downaward force. But in the burs tlimited format, I feel zone’ +z is a bit too powerful and unfair. I haven’t been to an official tournament, and I will very soon though, but please consider this proposal.

(LC) Geist Fafnir 0Lift Ωcta

Fri, 02 Jul 2021 00:55:55 +0000

(Level Chip) Geist Fafnir 0Lift Ωcta

Concept
Geist Fafnir 0Lift Ωcta is a KO Defense combo in Burst Limited. At a whopping 63.48 grams, this combo makes use of its massive weight to resist being knocked out as opposed to something like Kp' or U' that rely on grip. Rather than using either of the rubber defense Drivers, Ωcta gives the combo the ability to outspin a greater range of non-attack opponents at the cost of not having the dash spring, making this into a bit more of a Defense/Stamina/LAD combo (but still mostly defense imo).

Parts
Level Chip: Supposedly it improves the combo's balance and burst resistance, and while I've definely found this to be true for some layers I haven't observed a difference in this combo's performance with or without the Level Chip (but I admittedly also haven't gone out of my way to try and measure one). The main reason it's here is for weight, since this combo needs every gram of that it can get.
Geist Fafnir: The heaviest of the defensive left spin Layers now that Gravity is gone. It has some Burst Attack going for it as well, but its stamina and opposite spin performance generally aren't the greatest.
0: Technically you could use 10 or 00 to make the combo even heavier, but using those disks with more OWD will make this combo easier to burst. 0 has a more centralized weight distribution, and I happen to have an unusually heavy purple one that balances well with this combo, so that's the one I use.
Lift: The heaviest Frame that works well with the Driver, Ωcta, for Life After Death. If the TT Blitz is ever unbanned in this format it would be a good substitute for 0Lift here.
Ωcta: It was once the heaviest Driver, now I think the Charges and Bullet are heavier? It's notable for being able to OS Atomic in opposite spin, though it's a bit easy to destabilize in same spin.

None of these parts have a particularly high amount of stamina on their own, but when combined into something that outweighs most of its competition by ~10 grams, they have a surprising amount of functional stamina - on contact with something like F3, dF, or aB, the lighter opponent will lose more stamina per hit than gF, and this effect increases the faster gF is spinning. Being heavier than its opponents also increases its resistance to destabilization, which increases Ωcta's same spin performance.

Check out the video version of this combo here: --↴

Testing
LC Geist Fafnir 0Lift Ωcta vs Hazard Kerbeus 7Dagger Xtreme'
gF.0L.Ω: 12 wins (1 KO, 11 OS)
hK.7D.X': 8 wins (7 KO, 1 OS)
gF.0L.Ω' win rate: 60%

LC Geist Fafnir 0Lift Ωcta vs Nightmare Longinus Turn Xtreme'
gF.0L.Ω: 11 wins (8 OS, 3 KO)
nL.T.X': 9 wins (5 KO, 4 Burst)
1 tie redone
gF.0L.Ω' win rate: 55%

Well, since this is supposed to be a defense type, I figured I need to show how good it is against attack. Though the rounds I recorded make gF look pretty good, but the numbers here might not, especially against right spin KO Attack. Keep in mind this was a testing setting where it was launched first and a bit easier to aim at (especially with hK where nailing the first hit is very important). And considering nL.T.X' schreds pretty much anything else same spin, the fact that this combo can get above 50% in testing means it's definitely worth its weight defensively.

Geist Fafnir 0Lift Ωcta vs LC Bloody Longinus Generate
gF.0L.Ω: 11 wins (9 OS, 2 KO)
bL.Gn: 9 wins (5 OS, 4 Burst)
2 ties redone
gF.0L.Ω' win rate: 55%

Changed the Level Chip to bL for this one, just because for me it significantly improves its stability and performance. Basically, this match comes down to whether Generate can score a lot of early hits, which will either burst gF or knock it off balance enough to allow it to lose spin throughout the match and OS it late game.

LC Geist Fafnir 0Lift Ωcta vs Nightmare Longinus Turn Drift
gF.0L.Ω: 13 wins (11 OS, 2 KO)
nL.T.Dr: 7 wins (3 OS, 1 KO, 3 Burst)
2 ties redone
gF.0L.Ω' win rate: 65%

I surprisingly found nL.T.Dr to not go aggressive very often. It only self-KOed once, the other KO was when it recoiled off gF. For the most part gF was able to tank all of nL Drift's attacks and OS it (though a lot of the OSes were close, Drift could destabilize Ωcta sometimes but just didn't have the stamina to finish the job).

LC Geist Fafnir 0Lift Ωcta vs Fafnir F3 00Cross Absorb-S
gF.0L.Ω: 14 wins (6 OS 8 Burst)
F3.00C.Ab-S: 6 wins (all OS)
gF.0L.Ω' win rate: 70%

I alternated launches for these, and was sliding shooting Ab-S so F3 would avoid contact with gF. Nonetheless, it still bursted quite often and was occasionally outspun as well. A tighter Ab-S would give F3 a better chance, so I decided to change the Driver to a more burst resistant one:

LC Geist Fafnir 0Lift Ωcta vs Fafnir F3 0Expand Atomic-S
gF.0L.Ω: 9 wins (7 OS, 2 Burst)
F3.0E.At-S: 11 wins (all OS)
gF.0L.Ω' win rate: 40%

Contrary to how the normal ball-cone interaction works for destabilization, for this one you'll want to tornado stall F3. Generally, the quicker you get Ωcta off balance, the quicker it dies, but gF has a lot of weight and a lot of CWD, and right at the beginning of the match is when it's going to be at the apex of its power. If F3 runs into it then, it could lose a ton of spin from the weight difference or even burst, so it's better to stall it out. Sometimes gF would still manage to push F3 down onto its Frame and OS it, but maybe I chose badly for F3's Disk. Maybe in this specific matchup (and maybe stationary bL too) something like 00C or Hasrbo Wheel would be better since it'll allow At-S to stall for longer.

Geist Fafnir 0Lift Ωcta vs LC Bloody Longinus 0Glaive Orbit Metal
gF.0L.Ω: 6 wins (all OS)
bL.0G.Om: 14 wins (11 OS, 3 Burst)
2 ties redone
gF.0L.Ω win rate: 30%

bL is a lot like a left spin tN, it has a surprisingly good amount of Stamina and destabilization ability. With less of a weight difference between these two combos (I didn't weigh this bL combo but my guess it's mid 50s, while the F3 is high 40s) it was also able to exploit the favorable Driver matchup better.

LC Geist Fafnir 0Lift Ωcta vs Hercules H4 10Cross Absorb-S
gF.0L.Ω: 0 wins
H4.10C.Ab-S: 10 wins (all OS)
gF.0L.Ω' win rate: 0%

Unfortunately, almost any right spin Defense/Stamina Layer on a Disk/Driver setup with greater LAD than Lift Ωcta can take this combo down with little effort. gF Ωcta does not have enough aggression to KO a weak launched opposite spin opponent consistently.

Overall
It's very good defensively, despite not having a Dash Driver it was able to tank hits from both Longini, even stationary bL, without bursting very often, and despite getting only a 60% win rate against an attacker it's supposed to hard-counter, a 2 player tournament environment will likely change this and honestly, hK is the only right spin attacker worth testing against this because everything else doesn't have the power to KO gF, or is on Ds', which is going to beat Ωcta anyways.

The high amount of functional stamina from its weight makes it a difficult combo to match up against in same spin as well, though either stationary or mixed bL seems to be the most consistent counter. Then again, mixed bL has a good matchup against literally everything left spin as well, so that's a bit of a moot point.

The most reliable way to defeat this combo imo is through right spin LAD. Ωcta is not very high in the LAD heirarchy especially now with things like Drift in the game. But even then, and I pointed this out at the end of the video, it seems to be a very safe combo in the current 1v1 WBO first stage since it had like 75% favorable matchups against all the combos chosen for the Limited CBT (which I'll eventually finish and also make a whole write up with data and everything some day).