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+---- Thread: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist (/Thread-WBO-Organized-Play-Announcement-WBO-Watchlist)
WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - LazerBeamz - Jun. 15, 2021
Hello fellow Bladers!
Over the past few months, the Organized Play team has been in discussion around the state of our various formats. With the monthly release of new parts having the potential to shake up balanced formats like Burst Class and Burst Limited, we've decided to institute a Watchlist.
Why Create a Watchlist?
Having a public Watchlist allows us (both Organized Play and WBO Community members) to more readily monitor our state of play in our various formats and ensure that our formats stay as balanced as possible. We aim to use tournament data and testing to inform what parts get added or removed from this Watchlist, or moved to our Ban List.
Note on Newly Released Parts
For the month after a new Beyblade has been released, that Beyblade & its associated new parts will be added to the Watchlist across all applicable formats. Again, tournament data and testing will inform wether or not it will be removed from the Watchlist, or moved to our Ban List.
Current Watchlist
You can find our current watchlist by clicking the button below.
How you can help!
Tournament data and testing is a community effort. Your usage of these parts will help inform how the Organized Play Team updates our Watchlist. We look forward to working with you all in ensuring balanced formats for play!
Feedback:
If you have any feedback on these particular changes, or any questions or suggestions for further adjustments or additions, please post your thoughts below or in the WBO Organized Play Rules thread.
Thanks for your continued support of WBO Organized Play! We always appreciate your feedback and are constantly looking to improve and clarify things where ever possible.
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - TheRogueBlader - Oct. 25, 2021
Just to ask this, is alright on the watchlist being counted with or without the gears? without them it doesn't have too much weight to be op for limited, but with the gears it s weight is up in the mid 40's I think so might wanna watch that.
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - GreaterLonginus - Oct. 25, 2021
Ali why is Hasbearing banned but not TT Bearing’?
*I meant Also
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - USN - Oct. 25, 2021
(Oct. 25, 2021 8:55 AM)GreaterLonginus Wrote: Ali why is Hasbearing banned but not TT Bearing’?
*I meant Also
Hasbearing has a tight spring from what I have heard. As for bearing', there probably just isn't enough testing.
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - MagikHorse - Oct. 31, 2021
(Oct. 25, 2021 1:26 PM)USN Wrote:(Oct. 25, 2021 8:55 AM)GreaterLonginus Wrote: Ali why is Hasbearing banned but not TT Bearing’?
*I meant Also
Hasbearing has a tight spring from what I have heard. As for bearing', there probably just isn't enough testing.
It's also been out for less than a month, so there's just not a big enough sample size.
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - BladerGem - Oct. 31, 2021
(Oct. 31, 2021 12:17 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:(Oct. 25, 2021 1:26 PM)USN Wrote: Hasbearing has a tight spring from what I have heard. As for bearing', there probably just isn't enough testing.
It's also been out for less than a month, so there's just not a big enough sample size.
At the same time, how much testing has to be done, realistically? The only real difference is that it has a slightly tighter spring, so apart from bursting less often, it's still going to perform the same as any other Bearing. Did extensive testing need to be done in the past when dash versions of previous drivers were released, or was it generally accepted that they performed similarly albeit with better burst resistance?
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - TheRogueBlader - Oct. 31, 2021
Why is Almight on the watchlist for classic if it’s banned? LazerBeamz you might wanna change that
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - MagikHorse - Oct. 31, 2021
(Oct. 31, 2021 3:18 AM)BladerGem Wrote:(Oct. 31, 2021 12:17 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: It's also been out for less than a month, so there's just not a big enough sample size.
At the same time, how much testing has to be done, realistically? The only real difference is that it has a slightly tighter spring, so apart from bursting less often, it's still going to perform the same as any other Bearing. Did extensive testing need to be done in the past when dash versions of previous drivers were released, or was it generally accepted that they performed similarly albeit with better burst resistance?
Legacy formats are a lot pickier regarding burst resistance than Standard is. In a legacy format "the same with more burst resistance" could actually be too much, hence the bans on Accel', Zephyr', and Metal Accel in Classic. This is the already existing logic behind why HasBearing is banned in those formats to begin with too.
Hence, in legacy formats Bearing' needs testing to figure out if it's still fair or too tanky like HasBearing is.
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - BladerGem - Oct. 31, 2021
(Oct. 31, 2021 3:42 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:(Oct. 31, 2021 3:18 AM)BladerGem Wrote: At the same time, how much testing has to be done, realistically? The only real difference is that it has a slightly tighter spring, so apart from bursting less often, it's still going to perform the same as any other Bearing. Did extensive testing need to be done in the past when dash versions of previous drivers were released, or was it generally accepted that they performed similarly albeit with better burst resistance?
Legacy formats are a lot pickier regarding burst resistance than Standard is. In a legacy format "the same with more burst resistance" could actually be too much, hence the bans on Accel', Zephyr', and Metal Accel in Classic. This is the already existing logic behind why HasBearing is banned in those formats to begin with too.
Hence, in legacy formats Bearing' needs testing to figure out if it's still fair or too tanky like HasBearing is.
I can understand that, but that's legacy formats. The main issue at hand is the blanket ban for Standard, is it not?
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - MagikHorse - Oct. 31, 2021
(Oct. 31, 2021 4:01 AM)BladerGem Wrote:(Oct. 31, 2021 3:42 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: Legacy formats are a lot pickier regarding burst resistance than Standard is. In a legacy format "the same with more burst resistance" could actually be too much, hence the bans on Accel', Zephyr', and Metal Accel in Classic. This is the already existing logic behind why HasBearing is banned in those formats to begin with too.
Hence, in legacy formats Bearing' needs testing to figure out if it's still fair or too tanky like HasBearing is.
I can understand that, but that's legacy formats. The main issue at hand is the blanket ban for Standard, is it not?
Do... you know where you are right now? This is the parts watchlist thread. This is a public list where we can look over parts that may be too strong for legacy formats as a solo part in a vacuum in those formats. The blanket restriction doesn't mean anything here, as the question being asked isn't "is two Bearings in a legacy deck too strong" but rather "Is Bearing' as an individual part too strong in a legacy format", which is a call on whether it should be allowed to be played at all both in first stage and in the final stage regardless of the deck restrictions. This is entirely the wrong place to bring that rule up, as it has no meaning here.
Also, the entire discussion you attached yourself to all occurred before the rule change, so clearly that's not going to have had any impact on it either.
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - BladerGem - Oct. 31, 2021
(Oct. 31, 2021 4:43 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:(Oct. 31, 2021 4:01 AM)BladerGem Wrote: I can understand that, but that's legacy formats. The main issue at hand is the blanket ban for Standard, is it not?
Do... you know where you are right now? This is the parts watchlist thread. This is a public list where we can look over parts that may be too strong for legacy formats as a solo part in a vacuum in those formats. The blanket restriction doesn't mean anything here, as the question being asked isn't "is two Bearings in a legacy deck too strong" but rather "Is Bearing' as an individual part too strong in a legacy format", which is a call on whether it should be allowed to be played at all both in first stage and in the final stage regardless of the deck restrictions. This is entirely the wrong place to bring that rule up, as it has no meaning here.
Also, the entire discussion you attached yourself to all occurred before the rule change, so clearly that's not going to have had any impact on it either.
Sorry, I've been juggling threads and I thought this was the October Rules update thread. My mistake.
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - froztz - Dec. 01, 2021
Making everyone aware of the new changes:
- Zone'+Z has been banned in Burst limited
- Gravity has been restricted to no changes in spin direction in first stage.
- High Xtend+' has been added to the watch-list for Burst Limited
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - KIO - Dec. 01, 2021
(Dec. 01, 2021 9:02 PM)froztz Wrote: Making everyone aware of the new changes:
- Zone'+Z has been banned in Burst limited
- Gravity has been restricted to no changes in spin direction in first stage.
- High Xtend+' has been added to the watch-list for Burst Limited
Question for clarity's sake: Is Zone+Z legal?
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - TheRogueBlader - Dec. 02, 2021
(Dec. 01, 2021 9:02 PM)froztz Wrote: Making everyone aware of the new changes:Thankyou! I’ve always known and believed that zone’+z was to powerful for burst limited, nice to see it finally being banned. And I also have been wondering, with High Xtend+’ being on the watchlist and zone’+z being banned, what’s the likelihood of Xtend+ being brought into limited?
- Zone'+Z has been banned in Burst limited
- Gravity has been restricted to no changes in spin direction in first stage.
- High Xtend+' has been added to the watch-list for Burst Limited
(Dec. 01, 2021 10:14 PM)KIO Wrote:Yes it’s legal. The +z and +x chips are legal on: xceed, xceed’, zone and zone’(Dec. 01, 2021 9:02 PM)froztz Wrote: Making everyone aware of the new changes:
- Zone'+Z has been banned in Burst limited
- Gravity has been restricted to no changes in spin direction in first stage.
- High Xtend+' has been added to the watch-list for Burst Limited
Question for clarity's sake: Is Zone+Z legal?
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - th!nk - Dec. 02, 2021
(Dec. 01, 2021 9:02 PM)froztz Wrote: Making everyone aware of the new changes:
- Zone'+Z has been banned in Burst limited
- Gravity has been restricted to no changes in spin direction in first stage.
- High Xtend+' has been added to the watch-list for Burst Limited
1. Good, popular change, good to see the community listened to on this. As KIO asked, for reference, this is specifically Zone dash only and with the Z chip only I take it?
2. Feels unnecessary, it isn't oppressive especially on the combos I see it used on more recently. Good yes, but a lot of it is due to what people are willing to play - certain areas seem unwilling to play attack even though limited was (at least on the launch banlist, but not much has changed) designed to heavily reward attack use, and that makes it hard to say if gravity really is strong or people just... Aren't using what counters it?
3. No opinion, it's probably fine enough tho given it doesn't take hits well. Don't really know enough about limited to run my mouth.
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - Wombat - Dec. 03, 2021
(Dec. 01, 2021 9:02 PM)froztz Wrote: Making everyone aware of the new changes:
- Zone'+Z has been banned in Burst limited
- Gravity has been restricted to no changes in spin direction in first stage.
- High Xtend+' has been added to the watch-list for Burst Limited
Awesome, thank you for editing the rulebooks for these. I was going to update the Zn'+Z myself just now, but you beat me to it haha
(Dec. 02, 2021 1:51 AM)th!nk Wrote: 1. Good, popular change, good to see the community listened to on this. As KIO asked, for reference, this is specifically Zone dash only and with the Z chip only I take it?
2. Feels unnecessary, it isn't oppressive especially on the combos I see it used on more recently. Good yes, but a lot of it is due to what people are willing to play - certain areas seem unwilling to play attack even though limited was (at least on the launch banlist, but not much has changed) designed to heavily reward attack use, and that makes it hard to say if gravity really is strong or people just... Aren't using what counters it?
I don't really know anything concrete about HXt+'s performance in Limited, so I can't speak about that either, but as for 1: Yes, it is only Zone' when used with the +Z chip. That's the only permutation of those parts whose use has presented a problem as of yet, but if people start using Xc'+Z, Zn+Z, Zn', or Zn'+X to a similar effect we can consider a more complex ban that better targets the source of the problem.
As for Gravity, I think it has more to do with making it less of a "safe" option - "switch spin directions and win by LAD" is one of the most dominant tactics in Burst and many players that began in that generation have retroactively applied it to Gravity, even in MFB Standard. While it can be debated how reliable that really is in any of the MFB formats, if nothing else it will get those players to think outside of the box.
Winning Combos archive
There is not really a ton of documentation on the WBO of Zn'+Z being problematic, but here's a bunch of videos of Zn'+Z in action in both testing and tournaments:
Shindog's videos:
(LC)gF.Wh(Hasbro).Zn'+Z vs (LC)hK.7D.X'
(LC)gF.Wh(Hasbro).Zn'+Z vs nL.T.X'
(LC)gF.00E.Ds' vs dF.0W.Zn'+Z
dF.00W.Zn'+Z vs nL.T.X'
(LC)gF.Wh(Has).Zn'+Z vs (MGC)tN.0E.Ds
Virtuous Circle's videos:
LA Burst Limited #1
Limited is "Unlimited"
HIGH PARK THROWDOWN 12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2pw9xA8Jyo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2WNwKPgbt8
BeyBase article: https://beybase.com/toronto-beyblade-burst-limited-format-tournament-report/
![[Image: 7htmK3E.png]](https://i.imgur.com/7htmK3E.png)
![[Image: aQZ3phX.png]](https://i.imgur.com/aQZ3phX.png)
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - th!nk - Dec. 04, 2021
(Dec. 03, 2021 7:54 PM)Wombat Wrote:(Dec. 01, 2021 9:02 PM)froztz Wrote: Making everyone aware of the new changes:
- Zone'+Z has been banned in Burst limited
- Gravity has been restricted to no changes in spin direction in first stage.
- High Xtend+' has been added to the watch-list for Burst Limited
Awesome, thank you for editing the rulebooks for these. I was going to update the Zn'+Z myself just now, but you beat me to it haha
(Dec. 02, 2021 1:51 AM)th!nk Wrote: 1. Good, popular change, good to see the community listened to on this. As KIO asked, for reference, this is specifically Zone dash only and with the Z chip only I take it?
2. Feels unnecessary, it isn't oppressive especially on the combos I see it used on more recently. Good yes, but a lot of it is due to what people are willing to play - certain areas seem unwilling to play attack even though limited was (at least on the launch banlist, but not much has changed) designed to heavily reward attack use, and that makes it hard to say if gravity really is strong or people just... Aren't using what counters it?
I don't really know anything concrete about HXt+'s performance in Limited, so I can't speak about that either, but as for 1: Yes, it is only Zone' when used with the +Z chip. That's the only permutation of those parts whose use has presented a problem as of yet, but if people start using Xc'+Z, Zn+Z, Zn', or Zn'+X to a similar effect we can consider a more complex ban that better targets the source of the problem.
As for Gravity, I think it has more to do with making it less of a "safe" option - "switch spin directions and win by LAD" is one of the most dominant tactics in Burst and many players that began in that generation have retroactively applied it to Gravity, even in MFB Standard. While it can be debated how reliable that really is in any of the MFB formats, if nothing else it will get those players to think outside of the box.
Excellent, thank you for the clarification - and glad to hear we are open to fixing things that might fill the void.
That's fair. I don't think it's necessary (can't win by LAD if you aren't in the dish, basically) but I'm not gonna go in to bat for it when it's being used for a lot of LAD. It's a shame it makes gravity RF less dependable but I guess that gives other things more room to shine. It would be interesting to see if this makes DK too threatening to reintroduce though (given it was banned based on a gravity-free metagame).
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - Shindog - Feb. 19, 2022
Atomic’ is now banned in the burst classic format. As an upgrade to the currently banned At in the burst classic format, it is logical for At’ to be banned.
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - th!nk - Feb. 19, 2022
(Feb. 19, 2022 4:57 AM)Shindog Wrote: Atomic’ is now banned in the burst classic format. As an upgrade to the currently banned At in the burst classic format, it is logical for At’ to be banned.
Thank you to the OP team for getting this done in time for Maryland's upcoming tournament. Your diligence is appreciated.
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - froztz - May. 08, 2022
High Xtend+' has been added to the watch-list for Burst Classic.
RE: WBO Organized Play Announcement - WBO Watchlist - ~Mana~ - Oct. 22, 2022
Hi all!
Just dropping a quick message as we haven't in a while; the Watch List has received some changes over the past few months that we haven't outlined. Our current Watch List can be seen here. An overview of changes over the past few months can be seen on the final slide of this document as well (yes, there is a hint in there at bans that will come in the coming days).
For this month, we have made the following changes:
- Burst Limited: Bearing Drift added.
- Burst Classic: Revolve' and Bearing Drift added.