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+--- Thread: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? – WBO Staff wants your feedback! (/Thread-Should-Sniping-Gattyaki-be-part-of-the-game-%E2%80%93-WBO-Staff-wants-your-feedback)
Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? – WBO Staff wants your feedback! - Kei - Sep. 23, 2020
We want to pose this question to the community:
How does the community feel about Gattyaki or sniping as a tactic in Beyblade?
The Definition of "Gattyaki"
Here is how Gattyaki is described and performed according to our Beyblade Wiki:
Gattyaki – Beyblade Wiki Wrote:The purpose of this shooting technique is to land on top of your opponents Beyblade before yours has the chance to hit the stadium. Doing so will greatly reduce the endurance or KO the opposing Beyblade.
How to perform Gattyaki
To perform Gattyaki, you must hit the opponents Beyblade on an angle before yours hits the stadium floor. To do this, you must launch a split second after them. Normally, when the countdowns, “3..2..1.. Let it Rip!” or “3..2..1..Go Shoot!” are chanted, players launch their Beyblade at the R of Rip or the S of Shoot. For this shot, you need to shoot at the P of Rip, or the T of Shoot. If you launch any later than this, it will not be a legal launch. If successful, your Beyblade will land on top of your opponents, causing them to be KOed, or at the very least, lose a great deal of their endurance. This technique is most effective when using heavy customizations, such as compacts. The heavy weight of compacts is significant when performing Gattyaki because every extra gram of weight will add more force to the impact of your Beyblade when it hits. Or shoot at a different height so you can still shoot at the R at Rip or S at Shoot.
Gattyaki is very difficult to aim, and more often than not, you will end up missing. However, it should not be a problem for the rest of the battle unless something unexpected occurs. Don't worry you"ll get the hang of it. Even if you fail to perform this at the start of battle other extreme results may occur, like a bounce.
Note: Upon further investigation, this definition is not entirely accurate historically.
The goal of Gattyaki is not to land on top of your opponent, but to get a one-hit KO with the momentum of your shot. This can be with both Beyblades in the air, on the floor, or a combination of both.
Although extremely difficult to execute, achieving a mid-air hit has a higher chance of KOing the opponent due to their lack of friction with the stadium floor.
For the purpose of this discussion, we've included the existing most popular definition, but will be using the above clarified definition which includes the possibility for mid-air snipes.
Where did "Gattyaki" Come From?
The term "Gattyaki" was introduced to the international community by Beholder, the webmaster of Beyblade Damashii. This was an influential website for international players seeking information about competitive play in the early 2000s.
We are unsure of whether the term was coined by him, other Japanese players, or by Takara themselves.
The Relationship Between the Play Area, Knock-Outs, and Gattyaki
Throughout 2020, we have been working to craft a new and more precise, universal set of definitions for Play Area and Knocked-Out for the game of Beyblade in its entirety. This means all systems and stadiums.
The discussion around this has largely taken place both internally among WBO Staff and in this public discussion thread.
This new set of definitions for Play Area and Knocked-Out is nearing completion, however the way in which Gattyaki interacts with it (or doesn't) is one of the final pieces we'd like to resolve.
As such, going into this it is important to understand the concept of the "Primary Play Area", which will be included in this update when it is finalized.
Some of the details in our final implementation may vary, but for those unfamiliar with the PPA concept please check out this BeyBase article for an overview:
Latest Play Area/KO Definition DRAFT
For reference, see our latest draft for these definitions below. These are from before Gattyaki was questioned internally.
Please note that this definition is still a work in progress and subject to further changes. When implemented offically, it will be announced in the News Forum and added to the official WBO rulebooks.
Play Area/KO Definition DRAFT Wrote:Full Play Area Definition
The Play Area is divided into two distinct areas:
Primary Play Area (PPA)
The Primary Play Area is the space in the central area of a BeyStadium before the point at which any exits, pockets, walls, or stadium cover openings begin (if they exist).
Extended Play Area (EPA)
The Play Area can be extended under specific circumstances:
Some BeyStadiums have design features–such as pockets–outside of the centralized PPA that Beyblades can become trapped in or on permanently or temporarily.
These areas may only be considered as part of the Play Area if the Beyblade is spinning in or on them and can quickly return to the PPA.
A Beyblade cannot win in the EPA and must return to the PPA while spinning in order to remain in-play.
Full Knocked-Out Definition
A Beyblade is knocked-out when after being launched:
- It does not and cannot enter the Play Area OR
- It exits the Play Area while spinning and cannot return OR
- It stops spinning outside the Primary Play Area (PPA).
Knocked-Out Advanced Rulings
- If both Beyblades exit the PPA and do not return, a KO is awarded to the Beyblade that exited the stadium last.
- If both Beyblades exit the PPA simultaneously and neither returns while spinning, the round is declared a draw.
Key Information & Arguments For/Against Gattyaki
Here is a list of key elements highlighting the top arguments for and against permitting Gattyaki:
1. WBO/BBA vs. WBBA Rule Discrepancies
Gattyaki has been part of the WBO and its predecessors–such as Off the Chain–since the early 2000s.
During the plastics and HMS generations, Gattyaki was legal in Takara's BBA events.
During the Metal Fight Beyblade Generation, Hasbro produced a video promoting the technique:
Landing on an opponent’s Beyblade at launch or hitting them in mid-air to prevent the opponent from touching the floor the stadium is part of the game and has been seemingly since its inception.
However, from an official standpoint this has changed in the minds of Takara-Tomy:
Gattyaki is not allowed in the WBBA since it was formed during Metal Fight Beyblade. The battle starts when both Beyblades hit the stadium floor in the WBBA. The WBBA does not consider Gattyaki part of the game.
(If anyone has the exact translation of the rule(s) related to this from Takara-Tomy, please share.)
That being said, we are not the WBBA, so as has always been the case, we don’t necessarily have to follow their rules. We look to them for guidance, but are not necessarily beholden to them. Our community exists in a different context.
So it is a question of which direction do we feel as a community is fundamentally correct for the game of Beyblade?
For the first time in our history we are taking the time to properly and deeply assess every aspect of what it means to be "in-play" during a Beyblade match, so we can chart our own course.
2. Giving Chance to Win Unfavourable Matchups Or Not?
Gattyaki allows a player a chance to win very unfavorable match ups because it allows a combo that is at a severe disadvantage to have a chance to win.
However, this begs the question: if a player chooses to use a Beyblade that has no chance to KO the opponent, should we give the player an intentionally executable way of KOing the opponent?
3. Timing & Launching Skills vs. Incentive to Push Limits
Players with timing and launching skills within the parameters permitted by the WBO rules can earn the win with Gattyaki in spite of a bad pick or bad luck.
It promotes greater depth in launch techniques in Beyblade as a result.
That said, while performing Gattyaki the performer is incentivized to launch as late as possible and often directly over opponent’s Beyblade.
Because it is difficult to perform, this makes it more likely for someone to launch late and go past their half of the launch space.
Although judges are expected to carefully observe all aspects of a battle and some level of difficulty with certain situations is inevitable under any ruleset, it is not always easy for the judge to catch these types of infractions.
4. Countering Gattyaki
There are ways to counter Gattyaki. Especially after observing the attempt one time, it is easy to adjust your launch position at the last second to avoid much chance it in the next.
Players are responsible not only for their Beyblade, but for their launch technique.
Removing a component of the game which encourages thoughtful and skillful launch techniques for both players threatens to reduce active battle strategy in a game which already is heavily predicated on preparation.
You can argue that one way to counter Gattyaki is Gattyaki, though. Is Beyblade a game where players should being trying to snipe each other out of the air? Is this common enough to be a concern? If it is, was, or became common, should it be a concern?
5. Intention vs. Overcoming Odds
Should matchups be played as "intended" on the stadium floor?
Gattyaki can feel like a desperate attempt to win a bad matchup. Building, tuning, picking, and piloting a combo requires skill and strategy.
However, is desperation bad? Do we want players to never feel desperate?
Gattyaki adds an additional layer of strategy and skill. It holds the potential to break the pattern of certain victory or defeat for those who are skilled (and lucky) enough to execute and be successful with it.
Players shouldn't ever feel completely helpless. An incentive or technique–even a sometimes desperate one like Gattyaki–should exist which allows them to play the match to win.
So, what should be protected?
The "intention" of how certain matchups should play out on the stadium floor or launch techniques–like Gattyaki–which allow a player to invoke their will in the heat of the moment and have a chance of defying the odds?
6. High Risk, High Reward of Gattyaki vs. Viability of Traditional Attack
Gattyaki is high risk, high reward.
It takes a lot of skill and/or luck to perform a successful Gattyaki. It is not easy to be successful.
However, traditional attack types which aim to score a KO, Burst, or separation from the stadium floor (for the most part) are currently very much viable in most, if not all, of our formats.
Formats are generally designed with making attack types viable in mind. Attack is possibly less risk and the same reward and still quite exciting to play.
7. Start of Round: After "Shoot!" or When Both Beyblades Touch the Stadium Floor?
In the current WBO rulebooks, the start of a round is defined as:
WBO Organized Play Rulebooks Wrote:A round begins with the call of “3–2–1 Go Shoot!”
- Both bladers must simultaneously launch their Beyblades as the word “shoot” is called.
- Keep your Launcher held within your half of the BeyStadium. Never attempt to obstruct your opponent’s launch.
- Launch your Beyblade from just above the opening in the BeyStadium’s barrier (30cm maximum from the stadium floor).
This suggests that the round begins as soon as the Beyblade leaves the launcher.
This makes Gattyaki legitimate, as long as the additional launching parameters are obeyed.
There is a proposal counter to this however, which suggests that the round would begin when both Beyblades touched the surface of the stadium. Similar to how the WBBA operates. Contact before that would void the round.
Most of the time, Beyblades are going to at least appear to be battling on the stadium floor. The idea is that the surface of the stadium is an easily discernible starting point for the battle.
Once the Beyblades have touched the stadium floor, they can be allowed to jump up and KO opponents while suspended in the air.
This has the potential to work, but would definitively rule out scenarios like the one seen at 1:38 in this video:
In this battle, Flare (Red) lands on top of and KOs B3 (Black) first, then touches the stadium floor. But Flare actually touches the floor first before B3 would be ruled KOed.
It can be argued that this can be too hard to discern and that we should eliminate scenarios which may necessitate recording, though.
It is also worth mentioning that requiring Beyblades to touch the stadium floor first to begin the round would render rounds where Beyblades touch each other in mid-air or one touches the other before touching the floor and do not have a win condition inflicted to either of them invalid. Unless this is explicitly outlined as an exception.
8. The Play Area as a "Space" vs. "Surface"
The above is contrary to the intention of the Primary Play Area concept to date.
Beyblades are bouncing off the stadium floor constantly.
In our current definition of the Play Area, it is defined as a "space" and not a "surface" in order to allow for this and Gattyaki.
Proposed Primary Play Area Definition Wrote:The Primary Play Area is the space in the central area of a BeyStadium before the point at which any exits, pockets, walls, or stadium cover openings begin (if they exist).
Conceptually, this space would end past the 30cm above the stadium which is allowed for players to launch from in WBO rules.
9. The Inherent Physical Harm Danger of Gattyaki or Lack Thereof
Gattyaki is not highly dangerous, performing something like Gattyaki does increase the likelihood to hit your opponent with your Beyblade.
10. Taking Inspiration from Various Beigoma Play Styles
Beigoma, the inspiration for Beyblade can be played in a way where the entire point of the game is to snipe and KO. One Beigoma is launched first and a second one is launched later to try to snipe the first one.
This can be seen here:
Beigoma is however commonly played with both Beigoma being launched at the same time into the playing surface. In this game mode, out spin is also a win condition. This can be seen here:
11. Distinguishing Sliding Shoot from Gattyaki
If rules were implemented to discourage or ban Gattyaki-like techniques or movements, it could become difficult to discern when someone is trying to execute a sliding shoot versus Gattyaki.
Especially in something like the Burst Standard Type BeyStadium due to its cover versus the more open MFB Attack Type BeyStadium where you can more obviously demonstrate that you're trying to slide directly onto the stadium floor.
This could be a point of contention among players and contribute to difficulty for judges. Allowing for greater latitude in launch techniques helps to avoid this.
What do you think?
We would appreciate comments, thoughts, and your final take on Gattyaki.
Please feel free to share additional arguments and counter arguments. We will try to revisit this thread and add good ones to the opening post.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? v2 - Shindog - Oct. 04, 2020
Please take a look at this thread. The Organize Play team would appreciate you thoughts and opinion on this topic.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? v2 - 6Jupiter5 - Oct. 04, 2020
I think it should be allowed as a strategy is a strategy. I personally do this a lot as I can do a flower pattern much easier.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? v2 - BreakerDS - Oct. 04, 2020
Personally I don't like it that much. Even in casual matchups, when this occurs, my opponent and I agree that a snipe had occurred and invalidate/do over the round. I like to believe that a valid Beyblade battle involves both Beys clearly touching the stadium floor before contact. Split second launch KOs/Bursts seem like very shoddy matches.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - g2_ - Oct. 04, 2020
I don't like it. Feels like cheating.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - AshreSky - Oct. 04, 2020
I'm really torn on this subject. With the current rules, the PPA is a space. So Gattyaki is a thing. While I don't believe it should be taken out, I do believe it a bad sport to throw together something heavy just to try to snipe someone out all the time, because that wouldn't be fun.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? v2 - BladerGem - Oct. 04, 2020
Not sure how I missed this when it was posted, but no, I dont think it should be permitted (at least, in ranked matches). I feel like it would be difficult for a judge to determine if a Gattyaki was performed during or after the launch sequence.
I also feel like an opponent might feel cheated or powerless, if they feel that their opponent is launching late.
It can also make players feel powerless, as there is little you can do to defend against an such an attack, especially when against a skilled player.
I believe that the pseudo-randomness of a beybattle is part of what makes the game so enjoyable. Allowing something that can decide a match in seconds, regardless of matchup and your opponent's skill level, feels like it would take away from that experience.
EDIT: I can understand allowing it during the MFB era, as the stadiums were larger and a bey attempting to Gattyaki ran the risk of having its performance tip damaged by the victim's metal wheel. Currently in burst, parts like disks and chassis are the biggest factors for potential damage, made more severe by launching on top of another bey. Imagine the damage that could be done to a GT/Sparking chip, for example, if it was sniped by a bey using 3A. That doesn't seem to me like a risk that we should allow.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - OnlyCanBeOne - Oct. 04, 2020
I Believe this should be apart of the game
you can still counter it by changing launch styles or observing your opponent whos about to perform one but you have to also be strategic when sniping or it could backfire
most people will say otherwise because they feel a battle should happen with both beys hitting the stadium first but once both beys make contact a match is a match
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - 6Jupiter5 - Oct. 04, 2020
Was the snipe launcher created for this purpose?
Votes:
7 - yes it should be allowed (me, OnlyCanBeOne, AirKingNeo, kai edits, BuilderROB, Vtryuga, Lugiamaster0249)
10 - no it shouldn’t (BreakerDS, g2_, BladerGem, CitrusNinja3, Needforspeed, Flame-Byxis, #Fafnir, Bladerbuilder, DeltaZakuro, MagikHorse)
If I missed anybody or placed them on the wrong side do tell me I don’t want anybosy’s voice to be missed
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Shindog - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 3:20 AM)6Jupiter5 Wrote: Was the snipe launcher created for this purpose?Perhaps the snipe launcher was created for this. What of the WBBA rule for over a decade that beys must each hit the stadium first before a round starts? Did TT/WBBA create that rule for sniping?
Votes:
2-yes it should be allowed
3- no it shouldn’t
The same company/entity produced the snipe launcher and took away landing on your opponent to get a win.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - BladerGem - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 3:25 AM)Shindog Wrote:(Oct. 04, 2020 3:20 AM)6Jupiter5 Wrote: Was the snipe launcher created for this purpose?Perhaps the snipe launcher was created for this. What of the WBBA rule for over a decade that beys must each hit the stadium first before a round starts? Did TT/WBBA create that rule for sniping?
Votes:
2-yes it should be allowed
3- no it shouldn’t
The same company/entity produced the snipe launcher and took away landing on your opponent to get a win.
I may be wrong, but I think the snipe launcher was made to coincide with the release of Storm Capricorn, since Tobio, its user, was shown to have a "sniping" style of launch.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - AirKingNeo - Oct. 04, 2020
Gattyaki, or snipe launch, should be allowed. I don't really have the most coherent thought to write a proper paragraph, so I'll just put it into bullet points.
1) It allows skill to overcome adverse matchups. Its also pretty easy to counter since you do not need a super powerful stamina launch against KO attackers.
2) Saying attack is viable in every one of the current formats is a poor argument as it doesn't account for how attack can be disfavored by this change. Rewording the argument given, it would basically read as "Attack is viable right now, so it could take a nerf.", which doesn't assess at all how viable it would with that nerf. I personally like to be able to use snipe launches to beat opposite spin matchups that I would otherwise lose.
3) I agree with the 11th point made in the main post, which is some slide launches can be considered snipe launches, and trying to separate the two would be impossible ruling wise.
4) To tag onto the talk about "When the round starts" and whether that's upon the beys being launched or the beys touching the stadium floor, we need to consider the four cases in which contact occurs, because there is an issue of practicality. Case I, the beys touch each other while both are on the stadium floor. Case II, one bey is on the stadium floor and the other is in the air. Case III, one bey lands on top of another. Case IV, both beys make contact while in the air. Case I obviously is our natural case, but Case II is where we have our issue. The issue being: How do we tell certain instances of Case II apart from Case I? A bey could hit another while in the area, but be really close to the ground. A similar issue can occur with Case IV, where both beys are almost touching the ground, yet make contact, so its impossible to properly discern that it is not actually Case I. Lastly, we have to consider Beyblade Burst's burst mechanic, which can create more confusion to a battle, making it harder to rule what actually occurred. How would WBBA rule this hypothetical?
5) If we banned snipe launches, then I would object and say "well hang on, if my bey touches the stadium floor, and then knocks out my opponent, and I did a snipe launch, I wouldn't have broken any rule. My bey entered the play area, and made my opponent exit the play area."
6) This means we have to update the definition of "Primary Play Area" (PPA) and "Extended Play Area" (EPA), specifically in three dimensional space. First off, I'd like to say that being ABOVE the height of walls of a stadium while still within the shape of the walls should be considered apart of the "Extended Play Area" (example, a bey is knocked up really high, but re-enters the Primary Play Area somehow). Now then, we need to define whether not being in contact with the stadium floor but still being within the height of the stadium walls is PPA or EPA. If we defined it as PPA, then snipe launches would be allowed since a bey would be in the PPA the moment it leaves the launcher. If we defined it as EPA, then certain sniping is banned.
7) If we wanted to specifically banned "landing on top of an opponent", in case someone was against this, we'd probably have to go over what counts as being on top of an opponent exactly. How much of my bey or what parts have to make contact to be considered "above"?
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - CitrusNinja3 - Oct. 04, 2020
My view on Gattyaki is that any contact that occurs before both Beyblades hit the Stadium for the first time shouldn't be allowed. While it is true that several matchups are only winnable through lucky KOs or Gattyaki, that's the least of my concerns. I've personally gotten hit pretty hard by my friend doing a crazy anime launch several times in a row, and it's not exactly what I'd call a pleasant experience. It's also kind of hard to practice Gattyaki if you don't have anyone to play against, which would give a tactical advantage to people that practice with someone else often. Finally, if both players are trying to perform Gattyaki, it might end up in a stand-still since each player is trying to launch later than the other player, which would be a weird experience.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Shindog - Oct. 04, 2020
Haha yes, the double gattyaki. Beyblade staring contest.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - 6Jupiter5 - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 4:47 AM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: My view on Gattyaki is that any contact that occurs before both Beyblades hit the Stadium for the first time shouldn't be allowed. While it is true that several matchups are only winnable through lucky KOs or Gattyaki, that's the least of my concerns. I've personally gotten hit pretty hard by my friend doing a crazy anime launch several times in a row, and it's not exactly what I'd call a pleasant experience. It's also kind of hard to practice Gattyaki if you don't have anyone to play against, which would give a tactical advantage to people that practice with someone else often. Finally, if both players are trying to perform Gattyaki, it might end up in a stand-still since each player is trying to launch later than the other player, which would be a weird experience.
Is that a yes or no, or are you on the border? I need to know since I’m doing the vote count and it would help.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - CitrusNinja3 - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 4:54 AM)6Jupiter5 Wrote:(Oct. 04, 2020 4:47 AM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: [snip]
Is that a yes or no, or are you on the border? I need to know since I’m doing the vote count and it would help.
Overall, no. Gattyaki doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - superrobotking - Oct. 04, 2020
My take on this is that when does combat start in the WBO's eyes? Wbba states once a Beyblade touches the stadium which makes everything concrete to prevents Gattyaki . If WBO considers the battling to start once they leave the launcher why do you want to add in subclauses to the rules to state no Gattyaki then making elaborate rules explaining what is allowed once it leaves the launcher.
The simple rule of touching the stadium pretty much alleviates all the overthinking of what to look for.
One example to say yes to Gattyaki because "combat starts once beyblades leave the launcher" is that in Foil Fencing the rule is if the tip hits the body its a point. Because of this people do crazy whipping "Flick" moves to bend their foils to flex into a Hook and tap their opponent in the back. Ideally if this was real swords its not possible and they would still be "alive" but because the rule is if the tip touches the body its a point people do it in the olympics.
![[Image: Semi-final_Cadot_v_Tao_Challenge_Interna...184536.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Semi-final_Cadot_v_Tao_Challenge_International_de_Paris_2013_ts184536.jpg)
If we consider saying no to Gattyaki going with touching the stadium is the start of combat it become baseball and considering the "official strike zone"
![[Image: strike_zone.JPG]](https://www.ducksters.com/sports/baseball/strike_zone.JPG)
Also I'm pretty sure wbba combat starting once it touches the stadium helps prevent mid air bursting so parts don't fly out past the stadium walls and hit someone. As explained in there marketing copy
[font="Open Sans", sans-serif]"Upon first look, it appears to be a nondescript plastic cover, but repeated trial and error was required to arrive at its current form to ensure safety and ease of play. For these two, it didn’t matter how fun it was, if it was unsafe it was not worthy of being a toy."[/font]
I think I explained to enough people why I switched to WBBA rules compared to WBO rules.
TLDr; Yes Gattyaki if battle starts once beyblade leaves the launcher. No Gattyaki if battle starts once beyblade touches the stadium.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Shindog - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 4:14 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: Gattyaki, or snipe launch, should be allowed. I don't really have the most coherent thought to write a proper paragraph, so I'll just put it into bullet points.In regards these 7 points:
1) It allows skill to overcome adverse matchups. Its also pretty easy to counter since you do not need a super powerful stamina launch against KO attackers.
2) Saying attack is viable in every one of the current formats is a poor argument as it doesn't account for how attack can be disfavored by this change. Rewording the argument given, it would basically read as "Attack is viable right now, so it could take a nerf.", which doesn't assess at all how viable it would with that nerf. I personally like to be able to use snipe launches to beat opposite spin matchups that I would otherwise lose.
3) I agree with the 11th point made in the main post, which is some slide launches can be considered snipe launches, and trying to separate the two would be impossible ruling wise.
4) To tag onto the talk about "When the round starts" and whether that's upon the beys being launched or the beys touching the stadium floor, we need to consider the four cases in which contact occurs, because there is an issue of practicality. Case I, the beys touch each other while both are on the stadium floor. Case II, one bey is on the stadium floor and the other is in the air. Case III, one bey lands on top of another. Case IV, both beys make contact while in the air. Case I obviously is our natural case, but Case II is where we have our issue. The issue being: How do we tell certain instances of Case II apart from Case I? A bey could hit another while in the area, but be really close to the ground. A similar issue can occur with Case IV, where both beys are almost touching the ground, yet make contact, so its impossible to properly discern that it is not actually Case I. Lastly, we have to consider Beyblade Burst's burst mechanic, which can create more confusion to a battle, making it harder to rule what actually occurred. How would WBBA rule this hypothetical?
5) If we banned snipe launches, then I would object and say "well hang on, if my bey touches the stadium floor, and then knocks out my opponent, and I did a snipe launch, I wouldn't have broken any rule. My bey entered the play area, and made my opponent exit the play area."
6) This means we have to update the definition of "Primary Play Area" (PPA) and "Extended Play Area" (EPA), specifically in three dimensional space. First off, I'd like to say that being ABOVE the height of walls of a stadium while still within the shape of the walls should be considered apart of the "Extended Play Area" (example, a bey is knocked up really high, but re-enters the Primary Play Area somehow). Now then, we need to define whether not being in contact with the stadium floor but still being within the height of the stadium walls is PPA or EPA. If we defined it as PPA, then snipe launches would be allowed since a bey would be in the PPA the moment it leaves the launcher. If we defined it as EPA, then certain sniping is banned.
7) If we wanted to specifically banned "landing on top of an opponent", in case someone was against this, we'd probably have to go over what counts as being on top of an opponent exactly. How much of my bey or what parts have to make contact to be considered "above"?
1) I think we should expand the discussion beyond an KO attacker vs a stamina bey. The video example given in the OP is between an B3 vs Flare. I am not sure I would say Flare is definitely a KO attacker. Some ppl may argue Flare is absolutely a fabulous KO attacker and that is fine. Personally, I have only seen gattyaki used with combos that have little KO capabilities.
2) Basically, see response 1). “Attack” isnt all that is being talked about. Gattyaki can be performed with combos that aren’t attack at all. Personally, if I am piloting something like Judgement in its prime or Rage 3A now, I probably won’t take my chances with a gattyaki anyway. I can very much see someone trying to drop some combo with Wall.Br on something same spin stamina tho.
3) It is true that it may be impossible to distinguish sliding shoot and gattyaki. However, in my eyes, if the PPA is the stadium surface this is not an issue. Gattyaki is simply discouraged, but not banned, by requiring even more skill (hit the stadium floor and opponent simultaneously for example).
4) Case II can be hard to judge, but no harder than if the opponent launches too high, too late, or too far into opponent launch space. To me, it is easier to see if a bey actually touched a stadium floor, rather than if a opponent launched at 31cm instead of 30cm or if a player launched just a bit too late. Of course, player may commit fouls during launching performing gattyaki or not. However, to perform gattyaki, a player is incentivize to launch later than his opponent, perhaps also higher, and perhaps also right above the opponents launch into opponent’s launch space. Also, with midair collision allowed, which making leaving the launcher the start of the battle, wouldn’t being very close to the launcher be just as hard to determine as very close for the stadium floor? Determining if a bey got hit while still technically on the launcher seems difficult. These are practicality issue for judging as well.
5) I think the goal here is to use the definition of EPA and PPA to deal with this situation. I don’t think the goal here is to say “we ban snipe.” As you have correctly already pointed out, it is impossible to judge intent. In the example you gave here, assuming opponent also had touch the floor, you would win this point given that the stadium surface is the PPA or “initiates“ the PPA.
6) see response 5)
7). See below for the WBBA’s definition of “PPA” currently. This will weaken Gattyaki as midair KO/bursts cannot score points anymore. Landing on the opponent and causing a KO or a burst before the sniping bey touches the stadium floor will also not generate points anymore. Gattyaki will be nerfed for sure but it isn’t technically banned. Because as you said, how can we judge intent? I don’t think attack is nerfed, gattyaki is nerfed. This is why the OP referenced the PPA article, I believe all this has to be tied to the definition of the PPA.
WBBA rule on the start of the battle:
- “The battle begins when all Beys pass the shooting area and touch the stadium. If the battle does not start, such as the Revive Armor/Dead Armor comes off before the stadium is touched, or the Beys collide and burst, the battle will be redone.”
superrobotking to me, gattyaki’s sports analogy for me is this haha. Just my personal take on it.
https://youtu.be/YOLvFfmYhi0
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - kai edits - Oct. 04, 2020
It should be allowed. Also it is considered sniping so I have second thoughts about it
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Needforspeed - Oct. 04, 2020
Personally I don't think the Gattayaki strategy should be allowed since it may resolve to a double gattayaki which felt weird and the damage that it make sometimes could chipped a bey much worse than regular battle and im pretty sure a lot of us buy beyblade because of aesthetics I would be fine if it happened after the beys touched the stadium bc the damage that it make on beys are reduced
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - BladerGem - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 8:11 AM)Needforspeed Wrote: Personally I don't think the Gattayaki strategy shouldn't be allowed since it may resolve to a double gattayaki which felt weird and the damage that it make sometimes could chipped a bey much worse than regular battle and im pretty sure a lot of us buy beyblade because of aesthetics I would be fine if it happened after the beys touched the stadium bc the damage that it make on beys are reduced
You dont think it shouldn't be allowed... so, you support Gattyaki?
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Needforspeed - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 9:58 AM)BladerGem Wrote:Oh lol sorry my bad there i mean i I don't think that gattayaki should be allowed(Oct. 04, 2020 8:11 AM)Needforspeed Wrote: Personally I don't think the Gattayaki strategy should be allowed since it may resolve to a double gattayaki which felt weird and the damage that it make sometimes could chipped a bey much worse than regular battle and im pretty sure a lot of us buy beyblade because of aesthetics I would be fine if it happened after the beys touched the stadium bc the damage that it make on beys are reduced
You dont think it shouldn't be allowed... so, you support Gattyaki?
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Vtryuga - Oct. 04, 2020
What is the current ruling of the wbo when such an instance occurs? Only then will it make sense to discuss.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - BuilderROB - Oct. 04, 2020
I say allow it. Being able to win unfavorable matchups is something I feel you should be able to do. It would be one thing if Gattyaki was not able to be countered, but I feel in this case it is, so I say we should continue to allow it.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Flame-Byxis - Oct. 04, 2020
In MFB some of my friends used to do this when we played. We eventually voted to outlaw it as it caused more damage to Beyblades than a normal battle, especially when metal hit plastic. As well, if a Beyblade is launched with the intention of sniping and misses, it has a higher chance of damaging the stadium.