(Jan. 28, 2019  10:01 PM)BEYBLADE BEN Wrote: Blast Jinnius is NOT good.

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Also, Genesis Valtryek/God Valkyrie is not good either.

(Mar. 02, 2019  1:05 AM)@ya.dama Wrote: number 5 and 4 is nonsense.
the only good God layers are probably Spriggan Requiem and maybe Nightmare Longinus.

(Mar. 10, 2019  11:55 PM)bladekid Wrote:

(Jan. 28, 2019  10:01 PM)BEYBLADE BEN Wrote: Blast Jinnius is NOT good.

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Also, Genesis Valtryek/God Valkyrie is not good either.

Umm, J3 is actually pretty good if you know what you're doing.

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(Mar. 02, 2019  1:05 AM)@ya.dama Wrote: number 5 and 4 is nonsense.
the only good God layers are probably Spriggan Requiem and maybe Nightmare Longinus.

When you forget about N3, J3, G3, B3, F3, K4, and lS3

(Mar. 11, 2019  12:22 AM)BEYBLADE BEN Wrote:

(Mar. 10, 2019  11:55 PM)bladekid Wrote: Umm, J3 is actually pretty good if you know what you're doing.

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When you forget about N3, J3, G3, B3, F3, K4, and lS3

I know what I'm doing. J3 is NOT good. The only good god layers are mG, Sr, and aB for Hasbro.

(Mar. 11, 2019  2:23 PM)bladekid Wrote:

(Mar. 11, 2019  12:22 AM)BEYBLADE BEN Wrote: I know what I'm doing. J3 is NOT good. The only good god layers are mG, Sr, and aB for Hasbro.

If those are the only good layers, then you don't know how to properly use them. J3 can beat a lot of good left spin beys on the right setups, N3 is a pretty safe bey if used correctly, dC3 has really good stamina, lS3 can switch spin directions and imo, is the best hasbro layer if you know what you're doing,

(Jan. 27, 2019  4:40 PM)lilphilyb Wrote: Add nL's weight with both Bump and octa and you get something heavier than Cho-Z

(Mar. 13, 2019  4:33 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:

(Mar. 11, 2019  2:23 PM)bladekid Wrote: If those are the only good layers, then you don't know how to properly use them. J3 can beat a lot of good left spin beys on the right setups, N3 is a pretty safe bey if used correctly, dC3 has really good stamina, lS3 can switch spin directions and imo, is the best hasbro layer if you know what you're doing,

Jinnius is bad overall, since its gimmick and shape makes it easy to destabilize and makes it useless in same spin matches. It's not as downright terrible against left-spin, but "less terrible" doesn't really cut it when you could be running far less risky counters to left spin that don't just auto-lose to right spin Evolution/God or above.

Nemesis/Noctemis is good against other Evolution/God beys with its Upper mode, but has troubles lifting Cho-Z's heavier weights very well which kills its usefulness pretty badly. Might be decent against left spin, but once again there are better ways to counter that without just downright losing to right spin Cho-Z beys.

Chaos/Caynox C3 has the same issue as Noctemis, being really good in Evolution/god but can't survive the heavier field very well, this time by being too easy to burst. I'm not even sure that it would work against left spin very well.

Legend Spryzen is a maybe, only because you can switch your spin direction with it if you need to. It's got the flexibility edge if used like Requiem, but is a bit weaker overall since it can't steal spin all that well and basically just lives on spinning the opposite direction of your opponent.

Beyond Legend Spryzen, it really does just boil down to Garuda, Spryzen Requiem, Balkesh, and maybe Kerbeus K4 in the "usable" pile for Hasbro. Maybe Fafnir if you're really peckish for a right-spin counter, but Spryzen Requiem and Balkesh are both far better for that sort of need.

(Jan. 27, 2019  4:40 PM)lilphilyb Wrote: Add nL's weight with both Bump and octa and you get something heavier than Cho-Z

This is a terrible, terrible idea. Nightmare Longinus/Luinor L3 has absolutely no synergy with a stationary driver like Octa. Sure, it'll weigh a comparable amount to a Super-Z bey, but nL has no real Defense or Stamina power and Octa kills off nL's Attack potential outright. TT demonstrated this with the very similar release of Nightmare Longinus Planet in Random Booster 11. Even though Octa is better than Planet, it's not going to make it magically work out.

Nightmare Longinus needs to be in an all-out attack combination to stand any chance whatsoever of doing anything useful. Even on a good all-out attack driver I don't think it wins against anything in the Cho-Z meta though aside from maybe Hell Salamander on Bearing or maybe the occasional offbeat Crash Ragnaruk.

God Valkyrie is also a bad idea, especially as it was heavily outclassed by a multitude of other layers even in Evolution/God (most notably Legend Spriggan and Sieg Xcaliber). Its spring gimmick is usually a downside that just dulls its own hits and hinders its Stamina, and although it's not as likely to burst because of it that means nothing if you're attacking with such a low amount of power anyways.

(Mar. 13, 2019  5:10 AM)bladekid Wrote:

(Mar. 13, 2019  4:33 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: Jinnius is bad overall, since its gimmick and shape makes it easy to destabilize and makes it useless in same spin matches. It's not as downright terrible against left-spin, but "less terrible" doesn't really cut it when you could be running far less risky counters to left spin that don't just auto-lose to right spin Evolution/God or above.

Nemesis/Noctemis is good against other Evolution/God beys with its Upper mode, but has troubles lifting Cho-Z's heavier weights very well which kills its usefulness pretty badly. Might be decent against left spin, but once again there are better ways to counter that without just downright losing to right spin Cho-Z beys.

Chaos/Caynox C3 has the same issue as Noctemis, being really good in Evolution/god but can't survive the heavier field very well, this time by being too easy to burst. I'm not even sure that it would work against left spin very well.

Legend Spryzen is a maybe, only because you can switch your spin direction with it if you need to. It's got the flexibility edge if used like Requiem, but is a bit weaker overall since it can't steal spin all that well and basically just lives on spinning the opposite direction of your opponent.

Beyond Legend Spryzen, it really does just boil down to Garuda, Spryzen Requiem, Balkesh, and maybe Kerbeus K4 in the "usable" pile for Hasbro. Maybe Fafnir if you're really peckish for a right-spin counter, but Spryzen Requiem and Balkesh are both far better for that sort of need.


This is a terrible, terrible idea. Nightmare Longinus/Luinor L3 has absolutely no synergy with a stationary driver like Octa. Sure, it'll weigh a comparable amount to a Super-Z bey, but nL has no real Defense or Stamina power and Octa kills off nL's Attack potential outright. TT demonstrated this with the very similar release of Nightmare Longinus Planet in Random Booster 11. Even though Octa is better than Planet, it's not going to make it magically work out.

Nightmare Longinus needs to be in an all-out attack combination to stand any chance whatsoever of doing anything useful. Even on a good all-out attack driver I don't think it wins against anything in the Cho-Z meta though aside from maybe Hell Salamander on Bearing or maybe the occasional offbeat Crash Ragnaruk.

God Valkyrie is also a bad idea, especially as it was heavily outclassed by a multitude of other layers even in Evolution/God (most notably Legend Spriggan and Sieg Xcaliber). Its spring gimmick is usually a downside that just dulls its own hits and hinders its Stamina, and although it's not as likely to burst because of it that means nothing if you're attacking with such a low amount of power anyways.

By J3 being good for beating left spin, I really ment it. Ive tested it against the matchups on 0G.Gr and it can beat everything dF.P.Ds and below with relative ease and ties with a lot of dF Br combos. N3 is honestly really good as a staller on Ds and if used right can be pretty safe. C3 is still one of the best stamina layers in the game, and again lS3 is probably the best of them all, being able to beat pretty much everything on the right setup.

(Mar. 13, 2019  6:52 AM)gxpt2000 Wrote:

(Mar. 13, 2019  5:10 AM)bladekid Wrote: By J3 being good for beating left spin, I really ment it. Ive tested it against the matchups on 0G.Gr and it can beat everything dF.P.Ds and below with relative ease and ties with a lot of dF Br combos. N3 is honestly really good as a staller on Ds and if used right can be pretty safe. C3 is still one of the best stamina layers in the game, and again lS3 is probably the best of them all, being able to beat pretty much everything on the right setup.

im gonna test J3 vs balkesh and tt lefts, if its that good.

(Mar. 13, 2019  5:10 AM)bladekid Wrote: By J3 being good for beating left spin, I really ment it. Ive tested it against the matchups on 0G.Gr and it can beat everything dF.P.Ds and below with relative ease and ties with a lot of dF Br combos. N3 is honestly really good as a staller on Ds and if used right can be pretty safe. C3 is still one of the best stamina layers in the game, and again lS3 is probably the best of them all, being able to beat pretty much everything on the right setup.

(Mar. 13, 2019  11:47 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:

(Mar. 13, 2019  5:10 AM)bladekid Wrote: By J3 being good for beating left spin, I really ment it. Ive tested it against the matchups on 0G.Gr and it can beat everything dF.P.Ds and below with relative ease and ties with a lot of dF Br combos. N3 is honestly really good as a staller on Ds and if used right can be pretty safe. C3 is still one of the best stamina layers in the game, and again lS3 is probably the best of them all, being able to beat pretty much everything on the right setup.

Good. You really mean it, and I really don't believe it at all, especially regarding Jinnius (and Guard for that matter. Guard is pretty mediocre). I may test some when I get home, but you're saying a trash-tier unusable layer is suddenly really good, and that makes me highly skeptical of much of anything you're saying.

Tornado Stallers don't really work against the likes of Archer Hercules or one of the Phoenixes as they have much more Stamina and are incredibly common in the metagame, so I don't see how you can say N3 is a "safe" choice when both beat it easily. C3 is better on the Stamina front, but as I said it's way too easy to burst against that sort of weight, letting Cho-Z layers exploit its biggest weakness unless it gets lucky.

Honestly lS is the only one you've said that has any real potential, and it's not really for its strength but its flexibility.

(Mar. 13, 2019  2:46 PM)bladekid Wrote: If you want the J3 proof, here you go 
https://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Hasbro-Jinnius-J3-Testing-and-Discussion?page=2

It should be down a bit (sorry, I don't know how to quote things, my bad)

(Mar. 13, 2019  4:01 PM)MWF Wrote:

(Mar. 13, 2019  2:46 PM)bladekid Wrote: If you want the J3 proof, here you go 
https://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Hasbro-Jinnius-J3-Testing-and-Discussion?page=2

It should be down a bit (sorry, I don't know how to quote things, my bad)

The big problem is, Fafnir is not the only thing you have to worry about. If the testing is to be trusted it would be destroyed in both the standard and Hasbro Only Format.

In the standard Format it stands no chance against attack types like CZ-V/CV-A.10/00B/L/T.X' or stamina like aH.10C.Et or hS.10W.Br

In the hasbro only format it would have to deal with X3.7B.X/Jl-S

Jinnus in theory would be able to deflect an attack then avoid the rest. But the gimmick makes it easily destabilized. Unless you get lucky it is going to lose when against true top tier combos.

(Mar. 13, 2019  5:09 PM)bladekid Wrote:

(Mar. 13, 2019  4:01 PM)MWF Wrote: The big problem is, Fafnir is not the only thing you have to worry about. If the testing is to be trusted it would be destroyed in both the standard and Hasbro Only Format.

In the standard Format it stands no chance against attack types like CZ-V/CV-A.10/00B/L/T.X' or stamina like aH.10C.Et or hS.10W.Br

In the hasbro only format it would have to deal with X3.7B.X/Jl-S

Jinnus in theory would be able to deflect an attack then avoid the rest. But the gimmick makes it easily destabilized. Unless you get lucky it is going to lose when against true top tier combos.

As I said, this is meant to counter left beys

(Mar. 13, 2019  5:46 PM)MWF Wrote:

(Mar. 13, 2019  5:09 PM)bladekid Wrote: As I said, this is meant to counter left beys

just because it countered Fafnir in the testing doesn't mean it will win against things like
hS.00W.Br
nL.B.Ds
bL.10B.X'
CZ-S.10W.Br or CZ-10B.X'
gF.00W.Br

or if we are talking Hasbro
B3.7B.Br

or if we are including banned combos
Sr.00W.Br
Sr3.7B.Br

What is the supposed combo exactly? What Fafnir combo did you use to test.

Just trying to get answers.