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+---- Thread: Right-spin Hold as a counter to dF (/Thread-Right-spin-Hold-as-a-counter-to-dF)
Right-spin Hold as a counter to dF - XYZ-Jaden - Jun. 19, 2017
I would like to preface this with the admission that I do not own a tournament legal stadium for beyblade burst, which is why I am hesitant to post any hard-done tests. However, i do believe the blue hasbro burst stadium, while too small for any attack based testing, should be suitable enough for stamina v stamina battles.
That being said, i'd like to propose a idea that maybe some of you have come up with yourselves, but so far I haven't seen any discussion on here. I have been using B2_H as a spin-equalizing combo to counter dF.8G.R. The idea is similar to L2_H, with the exception that B2 spins to the right which allows it to equalize with left-spinning beys. Granted, it's a niche combo, but I've gotten it to os dF with fair consistency:
B2.S.H vs dF.8G.R, B2 weak launched and launches alternating
B2 9 (8 os, 1 ko)
dF 1 (1 ko)
B2.G.H vs dF.S.R same stuff
B2 7 (4 os, 3 ko)
dF 3 (3 os)
Unfortunately the smallness of the hasbro beystadium did lead to a few unwanted kos, which definitely skewed the results in the second round of testing. Regardless, I do hope that someone with better equipment than I can pick up this combo and give it the real testing it deserves. I'm also interested to see other rough right spin layers like Q2 or even V2 on hold, or maybe a different driver on dF like the infamous atomic, which i do not own. Anyways, what are ya'll's thoughts?
RE: Right-spin Hold as a counter to dF - Kai-V - Jun. 20, 2017
Hm, but Drain Fafnir would logically be weak launched too. Can you try same velocity, basically?
RE: Right-spin Hold as a counter to dF - XYZ-Jaden - Jun. 20, 2017
Of course! Here's the testing redone, this time both beys weak launched at about the same strength:
B2.G.H vs dF.8G.R (I accidentally left the Gravity on instead of switching back to spread for this one, but it didn't make too much of a difference)
B2 9 (all os)
dF 1 (os)
B2.G.H vs dF.S.R
B2 7 (os)
dF 3 (os)
Thankfully the slower spin velocity meant no accidental kos this time, but there were a lot more ties in the dF.S.R matchup. I'm thinking this combo would do better with a more compact disk like Heavy, or a lighter disk with more LAD like polish or spread, though hold doesn't usually fall over till it's entirely out of spin so LAD may not be the best aim. It's too bad I only own 1 spread, or else I'd have tested S v S on these combos cause .S.R seems to be harder to outlast with .G.H. I think it has to do with the weight difference, as a heavier bey is harder to accelerate than a lighter one. But yeah, enough rambling, hope this helps!
RE: Right-spin Hold as a counter to dF - Wombat - Jun. 20, 2017
Yeah right spin Hold should definitely work against most left spin things (though I don't know about Atomic just yet), the only issue is that its use cases are pretty much limited to against left spin, and not much else since Hold's Stamina is pretty awful and its aggression is difficult to control. The fact that almost all left spinners are also going to be using some sort of Precession/LAD setup means that it might not even be that consistent at beating them either.
Just to clarify, what makes left spin Hold viable and right spin Hold niche is the fact that Hold works best against opposite spin opponents, and most Beyblades are right spin, meaning that you're much more likely to encounter an opposite spin opponent if you're using a left spin combo. Unless you're running some kind of Attack Layer (and doing so would mean you won't be able to OS left spin as consistently) your right spin Hold combo is likely screwed vs another right spin opponent.
EDIT: Do you have Yell by any chance? From what I've tested, it performs slightly better vs opposite spin than Spread due to being wider, but I think Spread beats it same spin.
RE: Right-spin Hold as a counter to dF - XYZ-Jaden - Jun. 20, 2017
(Jun. 20, 2017 6:45 AM)Wombat Wrote: EDIT: Do you have Yell by any chance? From what I've tested, it performs slightly better vs opposite spin than Spread due to being wider, but I think Spread beats it same spin.
Unfortunately no, though I bet you're right about it being better for this combo
I also completely agree that this combo is super niche, only really being able to counter dF, but with dF saturating the meta rn I figured it would be a good idea to have a hard counter to it, especially in deck format. I'm not entirely sure how this would hold up against dF.P.At tho, and, because I don't own .P.At I can't find out myself
RE: Right-spin Hold as a counter to dF - Basedsamuraij - Jun. 20, 2017
I've been playing around with right spin hold also. A lot of the rounder layers on hold can do well against df. I've even got Chaos on hold to OS dF in a number of combos despite the poor burst resistance since you don't have to launch hold hard at all. I agree with @[Wombat] that yell can be better in opposite spin and so I would be interested in combos like B2YH. In my own informal testing I got B2.Y.At to OS dF.P.At. Although I don't know how much of the work Yell is doing in that combo I think it could be an interesting pairing with hold.
RE: Right-spin Hold as a counter to dF - BusyBlader - Jun. 23, 2017
If you have the parts, make dF P A
It can go from no spin to full spin.
RE: Right-spin Hold as a counter to dF - Angry Face - Jun. 23, 2017
(Jun. 20, 2017 7:03 AM)XYZ-Jaden Wrote:(Jun. 20, 2017 6:45 AM)Wombat Wrote: EDIT: Do you have Yell by any chance? From what I've tested, it performs slightly better vs opposite spin than Spread due to being wider, but I think Spread beats it same spin.
Unfortunately no, though I bet you're right about it being better for this combo
I also completely agree that this combo is super niche, only really being able to counter dF, but with dF saturating the meta rn I figured it would be a good idea to have a hard counter to it, especially in deck format. I'm not entirely sure how this would hold up against dF.P.At tho, and, because I don't own .P.At I can't find out myself
Based on informal testing I've done with O.S/G/Y/8.H against dF.P.At in the past, Hold's precession doesn't appear to be good enough to beat out _.P.At's LAD. That combination of Polish with Atomic is just so good, like a match made in heaven.
RE: Right-spin Hold as a counter to dF - XYZ-Jaden - Jun. 23, 2017
(Jun. 23, 2017 6:29 PM)Angry Face Wrote: Based on informal testing I've done with O.S/G/Y/8.H against dF.P.At in the past, Hold's precession doesn't appear to be good enough to beat out _.P.At's LAD. That combination of Polish with Atomic is just so good, like a match made in heaven.
I wouldn't doubt that hold can't os .P.At, however, I would suggest that odin's smooth shape wouldn't be that great for spin-equalizing, that's why I chose a really rough, yet still round, layer like B2.
RE: Right-spin Hold as a counter to dF - Angry Face - Jun. 23, 2017
(Jun. 23, 2017 7:49 PM)XYZ-Jaden Wrote:(Jun. 23, 2017 6:29 PM)Angry Face Wrote: Based on informal testing I've done with O.S/G/Y/8.H against dF.P.At in the past, Hold's precession doesn't appear to be good enough to beat out _.P.At's LAD. That combination of Polish with Atomic is just so good, like a match made in heaven.
I wouldn't doubt that hold can't os .P.At, however, I would suggest that odin's smooth shape wouldn't be that great for spin-equalizing, that's why I chose a really rough, yet still round, layer like B2.
Smoother designs with fewer interruptions have traditionally been the most effective shapes for opposing-spin Stamina combinations because increasing the surface area of the top's circumference results in longer and more frequent contact with the opposing top. The best Stamina parts from every generation (i.e. Duo and Genbull/Revizer/Killerken Dragooon from MFB, Wide Survivor from plastics, Circle Upper from HMS) all have that in common.
If even the, arguably, best right spin Layer for Stamina in Burst can't outspin dF.P.At on Hold, then the problem most likely lies with the setup beneath it.