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+--- Thread: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" (/Thread-New-Format-Idea-Deck-Rotation-System)
New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Bey Brad - Jun. 01, 2016
For a while now, I’ve been trying to come up with a format that incorporates switching between multiple Beyblades. I’ve always felt that the focus on having to select a single Beyblade that can perform well in the majority of scenarios, based on minimal information about the opponent's Beyblade, is one of the major reasons that we see a proliferation of “safe” combos and play styles across the competitive scene. But every idea I had came with huge drawbacks, whether it was too complicated to play or would make matches and tournaments last an unreasonably long time.
Until now. I’m excited to present what I sincerely believe could be a huge improvement to competitive-level Beyblade, the Deck Rotation System.
Deck Rotation Format
First Blader to reach 5 points wins.
- Outspin: 1 point
- Stadium Miss/Contactless KO: 1 point
- Knockout: 2 points
- Burst Finish: 2 points
- Each Blader comes to the stadium with 1 to 3 completed Beyblades, referred to collectively as a "deck". There can be no repeated parts within a deck. This deck is kept hidden from the opposing Blader.
- Both Bladers attach their first Beyblade in secret; the match begins as normal.
- When a Blader loses a round, they have the option to switch their Beyblade for another Beyblade in their deck. However, switching is not mandatory.
A few of us tried this format out post-Beyblade North, and honestly, it was really awesome. Maybe the most fun I’ve ever had playing Beyblade since returning with Burst.
For one thing, it removes the pressure of having to pick the one perfect combo without having any idea what the opposing Blader is going to use, which can often feel a lot like luck, and leads to players relying overwhelmingly on combos that are safe and easy to use (e.g. Revolve-based combos). Those types of combos still have a place in this format, but they’re complimented by other combos that can be used as counters.
It also introduces a ton of strategic depth:
- understanding which parts counter which becomes paramount, since coasting through an event with a powerful combo or two becomes essentially impossible
- the selection of your opening Beyblade is important; do you use a safe combo to scout out your opponent and try to earn an early point, or do you open with an Attack-type combo to gain an early 2-point-lead and apply pressure to your opponent?
- if your opponent is 2 points away from victory, you need to be wary of using combos that could help the opponent score 2 points, or giving them an opportunity to easily counter you
I know that the 2-points-for-Burst rule is one that’s been pretty controversial, but in the limited play experience we’ve done so far, I don’t think anyone found it to feel unfair, and the compromises attached to aiming for either 1 or 2-point victories made matches even more intense and engaging. And it works to keep the game balanced; a player running Deathscyther Spread Revolve, for example, might be much more wary of doing so knowing that the opponent can switch into an Attacker in the next round and win 2 points from a Burst Finish.
The deck that I settled into during our free play sessions tended to included an Attack-type (either VGX or XGX, typically), a Revolve-based Stamina combo, and a Defense-type or a destabilizer like D2HO that could do double-duty as a Defense-type. (I dunno how good D2 will shake out to really be, but it was doing well for some of us at the time.) I also felt like using Attack way more than I typically would, since it has the potential to beat a lot of different things. A Defense-type has an almost-zero chance of winning against a Stamina-type, whereas a low win-% for Attack-types is still much higher than that.
My hope is that this format will be a big hit and that we’ll eventually be able to adopt it for ranked WBO tournaments, but we have to do our due diligence first – at this point, it's just a proposal of mine.
We’ll soon run an unranked tournament in Toronto in this format, and I’d encourage organizers who’d like to try it to get in touch with me about it. Also, this is a format that lends itself really well to one-on-one casual play due to its built-in structure, so I’d encourage you to try it out outside of tournaments, too, and share your thoughts here.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - *Ginga* - Jun. 01, 2016
Fascinating! Quick question though, if you win a match can you change your beyblade?
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - MiddayOBWL - Jun. 01, 2016
This seems like an amazing idea, but.... wouldn't the bladers still only use the 1 revolve combo in their decks?
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - ForZ - Jun. 01, 2016
It sounds like it adds a bit of a bluff aspect to it, like poker. From the way it's written, I'd say you can't change after a win. Only a loss.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Cookie Bouquets - Jun. 01, 2016
(Jun. 01, 2016 12:20 AM)Cronus Wrote: This seems like an amazing idea, but.... wouldn't the bladers still only use the 1 revolve combo in their decks?
Yes but it becomes clear what revolve combo they're using so you can just counter pick it.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Bey Brad - Jun. 01, 2016
(Jun. 01, 2016 12:14 AM)*Ginga* Wrote: Fascinating! Quick question though, if you win a match can you change your beyblade?
As designed currently, you can only switch to a new Beyblade in your deck when you lose a round. Otherwise, the randomness of initial combo selection prevails, and match progress would slow to a crawl.
(Jun. 01, 2016 12:20 AM)Cronus Wrote: This seems like an amazing idea, but.... wouldn't the bladers still only use the 1 revolve combo in their decks?
Revolve will still have a place in most player's decks, obviously; there's only so many competitive parts and Revolve is incredibly versatile and useful. But there's no way you'd be able to get through a match by only using your Revolve-based combo. Players will have to be well-versed in all types of Beyblades to succeed in this format.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Manicben - Jun. 01, 2016
Yo, we in London could give this a go at some point too. Good to see that your idea may bloom into full fruition.
I fully support this idea, as it introduces new levels of fun and competitive play.
I look forward to seeing results and opinions from other areas, when they happen.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Mitsu - Jun. 01, 2016
Completely on board with the idea at the moment! Revolve is an amazing part and it is still definitely an essential. You could stick with something using it, sure, but you would definitely run in to complications solely sticking to it.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - The Supreme One - Jun. 01, 2016
Hmmm...Inguilt suggested something a bit similar a while ago, and I thought it sounded great. I do like the idea of presentation a bit more than keeping the combinations secret though because it can help eliminate the luck factor and requires more legitimate knowledge of the opponent for them to be able to identify the abilities of various parts and plan accordingly. In any case, I look forward to seeing how this turns out and if it succeeds, it could very well be my new favorite format.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - 1234beyblade - Jun. 01, 2016
Liked, Favorited, and Subscribed.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Hato - Jun. 01, 2016
Interesting format idea, I cannot wait to try it out!
Seems to help Bladers have a chance against beating the opponent, instead of it being difficult for 3 rounds. I also like that Attack is now worth the 'risk', but time to go through more Valkryies... ;x
And as Mitsu said; Revolve isn't as powerful as it once was. Gives other parts a chance to be used, not just the same combo being consistently used.
Thank you for proposing this, Brad!
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Cookie Bouquets - Jun. 01, 2016
(Jun. 01, 2016 12:22 AM)ForZ Wrote: It sounds like it adds a bit of a bluff aspect to it, like poker. From the way it's written, I'd say you can't change after a win. Only a loss.
Nah the winner should be able to change because it takes out the whole mind game aspect entirely, just people counter picking each other hoping they'd get a burst if they were behind at all.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - ForZ - Jun. 01, 2016
(Jun. 01, 2016 12:47 AM)Shirayuki Wrote:(Jun. 01, 2016 12:22 AM)ForZ Wrote: It sounds like it adds a bit of a bluff aspect to it, like poker. From the way it's written, I'd say you can't change after a win. Only a loss.
Nah the winner should be able to change because it takes out the whole mind game aspect entirely, just people counter picking each other hoping they'd get a burst if they were behind at all.
I don't disagree with you, I was just stating what was in the OP because Ginga asked if you could change your bey if you won a match. Brad replied a bit later.
I agree that it does add another element of strategy to it. Still, better to let it go in to testing and let players decide for themselves what they want.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - jonahblader13 - Jun. 01, 2016
This format seems amazing! I can't wait to play it.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Bey Brad - Jun. 01, 2016
Yeah, I think Shirayuki simply misunderstood – the format as proposed only allows you to switch Beyblades when you lose a battle. It's easy to imagine that this results in two players simply counter-picking each other, but when we played it it didn't seem to play out that way in our initial trials. You do need to be careful to not trap yourself into a situation where you're basically handing your opponent the final round, though. You need to think ahead.
One of the reasons it's designed this way – and also one of the reasons that you're not required to present your combos to the opponent – is to keep the match moving briskly. If we want this to be a real tournament format that can be played with more than a handful of players, that needs to be a primary consideration.
And regarding the lack of presentation: I don't really think this is luck, since it will be somewhat clear what the popular combos are in the metagame at any given time. It also affords players the opportunity to do something that truly catches their opponent's off guard. However, I do think you should be able to ask what the in-play Beyblade is at any given time (most players will be able to tell with their eyes alone, but players who have limited vision, for example, have as much of a right to that information as any other player).
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Kai-V - Jun. 01, 2016
I had heard some of the details from Cye Kinomiya, but after reading the whole concept, I agree more. It reduces some of the luck factor but not all of it. I suppose that the following matchup is better to accept as the opponent just being better or stronger rather than a bad and unlucky selection, but this scenario would be extremely exasperating and I suspect young Bladers especially will be very put off by this prolonged humiliation hah:
Stamina(A) versus Defense(B), then Stamina(A) versus Stamina(B), then Stamina(A) versus Attack(B), etc. You tried all your combinations against the guy and he keeps winning, but you have to go two other times because he keeps winning by outspin.
Just to be clear, if five points have not been reached by either Blader, the loser can come back to any of Beyblade in their deck even if they already used it and lost with it before, right?
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Zoroaste - Jun. 01, 2016
A gigantic yes from me, this sounds super fun. When I was a new blader I actually thought this was how you played, lol, hence them having those deck boxes and so forth. Was kinda disappointed when I learned that you only got one bey the whole battle. And yeah, it would put a lot more strategy into it and reveal the most skillful better I think, because choosing wrong isn't going to automatically kill you.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Bey Brad - Jun. 01, 2016
(Jun. 01, 2016 2:05 AM)Kai-V Wrote: Just to be clear, if five points have not been reached by either Blader, the loser can come back to any of Beyblade in their deck even if they already used it and lost with it before, right?
Correct. When you switch the other Beyblade goes back into your deck and you can switch back to it later.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - ForZ - Jun. 01, 2016
After listening to your points and listening to these small back-and-forth conversations, I've decided I would indeed like to try this format. Of course, I'd have to get 3 Burst beys first...
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Achi-baba - Jun. 01, 2016
Based on who's left after the side events of California's tournament, I'd like to try this out, but I don't think that enough people have burst beyblades in my area. Would it be fine to try this with MFB or plastics? If I can, I'll try to take a video too.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Bey Brad - Jun. 01, 2016
(Jun. 01, 2016 2:20 AM)earthwolf1404 Wrote: Based on who's left after the side events of California's tournament, I'd like to try this out, but I don't think that enough people have burst beyblades in my area. Would it be fine to try this with MFB or plastics? If I can, I'll try to take a video too.
I definitely wrote it with Burst in mind but would love to hear feedback on any other format as well
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Cye Kinomiya - Jun. 01, 2016
I think this format is great because it forces you to think and strategize more in the actual match instead of just in the preparation leading up to the match. It was also super fun. I like how it offers an incentive to use attack types without feeling like it is as much of a risk as it is in the current format.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - UGottaCetus - Jun. 01, 2016
Love this idea, and I would love to see it incorporated. Let's hope it gets approved so it can be implemented!
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Nocto - Jun. 01, 2016
That sounds pretty fun.
If I had to change anything, though, I'd probably discuss allowing repeats for Disks. Takara prettied them up and Heavy is running rampant, but unless I'm mistaken, they're still only the weight layer, no? Can the big ones be used as contact points? The weight component is pretty vital, but not quite in the same way as when a Layer clashes with other tops or in the same manner a Driver moves on the stadium floor.
Just something to think about. I think it could be fun either way, especially for Burst. I'd be curious to know if it could work with the right/left spin dynamic of previous generations.
RE: New Format Idea: "Deck Rotation System" - Bey Brad - Jun. 01, 2016
(Jun. 01, 2016 7:03 PM)Nocto Wrote: That sounds pretty fun.
If I had to change anything, though, I'd probably discuss allowing repeats for Disks. Takara prettied them up and Heavy is running rampant, but unless I'm mistaken, they're still only the weight layer, no? Can the big ones be used as contact points? The weight component is pretty vital, but not quite in the same way as when a Layer clashes with other tops or in the same manner a Driver moves on the stadium floor.
Just something to think about. I think it could be fun either way, especially for Burst. I'd be curious to know if it could work with the right/left spin dynamic of previous generations.
Yeah, this is something I'm open to – it was Kei who suggested not allowing repeated Disks. I was definitely just using Gravity instead of Heavy in my second combos, and then using a third combo with Spread.