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+---- Thread: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF (/Thread-MSF-F-Dragooon-Dragooon-85GF)
MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - Infie - Aug. 11, 2013
First thread for combo testing! Actually I got inspiration of the 85GF from this member:
(Aug. 09, 2013 10:58 PM)nupmuk Wrote: MSF-F Wyvang Wyvang/ Balro Balro/ Phoenic Phoenic/ Bahamidia Bahamidia/ Begirados Begirados 85GF in any stadium even Hasbro ones VS. Any Top tier Stamina, Defense, Balance, Spin Equalizer, Attack, or Anti Attack combination. The point of it being an Attack type, Tornado Staller, Anti Attack, and Balance custom combined.
The idea of this combo was to Tornado Stall, either KO opposing beys that get too close to the tornado ridge at the start (using speed of GF), OR spin equalize (left spin) + destabilize (85 track) the opponent for an out-spin. Metal Stone Face - Feather was used to maximize centrifugal force and ensure Dragooon maintained more rotations than the opponent nearing the end of the match.
Equipment
-BB-10 Attack Stadium
-Zero-G Compact Launcher L
-Light Launcher 2
-Dragooon launched first on all matches
I'm using ripcord launchers because I don't have Beylauncher L or LR.
Against Phantom Orion W145WD (Stamina Mode) (Click to View)
Against MSF-H Revizer Killerken BD145RDF (Click to View)
Against Phantom Orion 230D (Stamina Mode) (Click to View)
Against MSF-F Orojya Orojya W145WD (Click to View)
Conclusion: (Click to View)
REQUESTS COMPLETED
Against MSF-H Revizer Dragooon BD145RDF (Click to View)
Against Death Aquario BD145RDF (Defense Mode) (Click to View)
Against Death Aquario B:D (Defense Mode) (Click to View)
Against MSF-H Revizer Dragooon B:D (Click to View)
Against Phantom Gasher 85WD (Stamina Mode) (Click to View)
Against Phantom Gasher 85MF (Attack Mode) (Click to View)
Against Diablo Nemesis BD145RF (Click to View)
New Conclusions (Click to View)
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - Kujikato - Aug. 11, 2013
Against Death BD145 CS/RDF please.
Looks like a promising combo, good find!
BTW, why did you choose Dragooon 2? Why not use Wyvang or a different chrome wheel? IIRC, Dragooon 2 doesn't offer much, please correct me if I'm wrong.
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - Ocean - Aug. 11, 2013
Try against Duo W145BWD/WD, Genbull 2 TH170/SR200TB, or another left spin combo please.
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - ShinobuXD - Aug. 11, 2013
TB will get destroyed by this.
But yeah, if you have the parts, tests against Dragoooon BD145 RDF/SA165 EWD would be great. I can pretty much guarantee your combo will lose.
Oh, and if you can, please do Death/Duo F230 CF as well.
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - nupmuk - Aug. 11, 2013
Awesome Tests! Thanks for testing it! It seems to work as well as I thought it would!
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - Infie - Aug. 11, 2013
Thanks for the replies.
I chose Dragooon^2 because it was the first custom experimenting around that had some wins against Phantom Orion W145WD. XD So I took some formal testing from there. Will certainly try other chrome wheels and see how they work in a formal test.
Unfortunately, I don't have Wyvang, Genbull, SA165, F230, TH170, SR200 or Duo, so I can't test those...
Will do against MSF-H Revizer Dragooon BD145RDF and Death Aquario BD145RDF soon.
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - nupmuk - Aug. 11, 2013
Using Dragooon on this was a great idea! This combo has some pretty good smash attack, can Tornado stall, and can Spin Equalize. I don't know what it's weakness would be. It knocks out or tornado stalls or spin equalizes Stamina, Can tornado stall, Spin Equalize and sometimes knock out defense, I don't know how it would do against attack, and it could tornado stall anti spin stealers.
Could you do it against MF-H Death_____ B
?Or Reviser Dragooon B
?
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - Infie - Aug. 11, 2013
Thanks
We haven't tested against attack, anti-attack or other Dragooon customs yet... So the weakness could be somewhere...
I forgot to mention against MSF-H Revizer Killerken BD145RDF, the only way Dragooon could out-spin it was to hope it continue circling and not to have any contact with Revizer Killerken. Otherwise, they just equalize if they start connecting at low RPM.
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - nupmuk - Aug. 11, 2013
(Aug. 11, 2013 2:03 PM)Kujikato Wrote: Against Death BD145 CS/RDF please.It offers pretty good smash, not as good as some wheels but still pretty good. Andr It can spin Equalize.
Looks like a promising combo, good find!
BTW, why did you choose Dragooon 2? Why not use Wyvang or a different chrome wheel? IIRC, Dragooon 2 doesn't offer much, please correct me if I'm wrong.
(Aug. 11, 2013 5:08 PM)Infie Wrote: ThanksMaybe Dragooon is it's weakness? both combos are left spin so can not not spin equalize each other but this combo can knock out stamina so if it is against Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD/BWD it should be able to win but against Wyvang Dragooon it would probably lose because Wyvang has more smash than Dragooon so it could probably knock out this combo.
We haven't tested against attack, anti-attack or other Dragooon customs yet... So the weakness could be somewhere...
I forgot to mention against MSF-H Revizer Killerken BD145RDF, the only way Dragooon could out-spin it was to hope it continue circling and not to have any contact with Revizer Killerken. Otherwise, they just equalize if they start connecting at low RPM.
Could someone do some tests against 85 Stamina or defense like Phantom Cygnus/Cancer/Hades 85WD, or Scythe Uranus 85RS?
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - [)ragon - Aug. 12, 2013
I like this combo.
Although, this concept has been tested before... Meow! came up with a very similar combo a while back in the GF discussion thread. Killerken Dragooon D125GF.The disadvantages of this combo are:
1) Dragooon Dragooon doesn't really have much use in stamina-based customs if Killerken and/or Reviser are available
2) 85 is a cool track, but the goal here is to prevent GF from actually falling over... witch it can still do very effectively on a 125 height, since it so darn wide.
On a super-short bottom like GF, 85 will cause this combo to be force smashed easily by taller combos (IE F230CF stamina types, which I have informally tested this against), preventing it from effectively stealing spin near the end of a match (D125 still has this disadvantage to a lesser degree, and usually gets stomped by these too :\).
Also, against BD145RDF defenders, BD145 will hinder it somewhat from equalizing, which could also happen with SA165/E230 combos.
Changing to 125 would allow this to make consistent metal-to-metal contact with BD145/F230/E230 combos more effectively than 85 and avoid being force smashed by 165+ height combos, while still maintaining a center of gravity low enough to remain standing.
So, all in all, not bad at all!
Just a couple changes that could make it better, but the concept you used was right on the money
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - Infie - Aug. 12, 2013
@theblackdragon
Thanks for your insight, done a few more tests on request and I do agree that this combo has a huge weakness to being force smashed. If D125 is good, has CH120 and S130 been tested too?
The problem with this custom against BD145RDF types, is that 85GF can only win if it doesn't make any contact at all during the end (against opposite spin). Against same spin directions however, 85GF still needs to tornado stall most of the game and at the end just finish them off (BD145RDF should be at very low RPM at this time). This is what was observed from the testings below...
nupmuk
Actually, MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF might actually consistently lose to MSF-H Revizer Dragooon SA165EWD (Check the observation comments against MSF-H Revizer Dragooon B:D).
Since MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF wins by either tornado stall or spin steal + destabilize, a bey that counters both win conditions should be its weakness.
I can test Phantom Gasher 85WD tomorrow (if you have your own tests, please post too!).
However, I'm predicting Scythe Uranus 85RS is probably going to fail. RS is extremely poor against opposite spin opponents.
Below are tests from requests:
Equipment
-BB-10 Attack Stadium
-Zero-G Compact Launcher L x2
-Light Launcher 2
-MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF launched first on all matches
Against MSF-H Revizer Dragooon BD145RDF (Click to View)
Against Death Aquario BD145RDF (Click to View)
My opinion about winning against BD145RDF customs: Tornado stall and avoid all contact. Against opposite spin opponents, very likely to end in tie if they make contact at the end. Can defeat Revizer Dragooon BD145RDF as long as you tornado stall correctly and finish them off. Otherwise too many early hits and/or coming in close too early (oval-circling?) means a loss for Dragooon^2.
Against Death Aquario B:D (Click to View)
Against MSF-H Revizer Dragooon B:D (Click to View)
Deductive Conclusion (Click to View)
If other members to test and post results too, please do!
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - Kai Hiwatari - Aug. 12, 2013
Wow! More impressive test results.
I am still hoping to see some tests against Wyvang, hopefully someone else can do those tests.
Also, since the MSF-H Revizer Killerken BD145 RDF tests were incomplete, do you think you could try those again?
Or actually, I would prefer a CS instead of RDF in these tests if possible.
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - [)ragon - Aug. 12, 2013
Woah... GF takes down B
in a same-spin match-up? :\ That's a bit iffy... I would refer you to this test:
theblackdragon Wrote:MF-H Duo Cancer SA165EWD vs. MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85GF
Beys alternated launching first. Cygnus STALLED.
Cancer: wins, 10/10 (9 OS, 1 self-KO)
Cygnus: wins, 0/10
MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85GF win rate: 0%
Zancrow Wrote:MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85GF vs. MF-H Duo Gasher B
- Phantom in Stamina Mode
- Just Tornado Stalling
Cygnus: 0 Win (0 KO, 0 OS)
Gasher: 10 Win (0 KO, 10 OS)
Cygnus Win Percentage: 0%
GF has very, very low stamina, even when stalling... it's just used for it effectiveness against opposite-spin :\ Could you possibly make a video so we could see what's happening? It may be some sort of launching behavior... Not that I don't believe the test, it's just abnormal. What could be happening is your B
's mold is flawed, which would cut its solo spin time in half.I also don't know how this took down Death BD145RDF. That's almost impossible to OS in opposite-spin
. I could just be thinking too hard though 
I may be able to test this later today.
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - nupmuk - Aug. 13, 2013
Maybe MSF-F Wyvang Dragooon CH120/S130GF would be a more effective version of this?
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - Infie - Aug. 13, 2013
(Aug. 12, 2013 7:52 PM)theblackdragon Wrote: Woah... GF takes down B:D in a same-spin match-up? :\ That's a bit iffy...Probably I do have a flawed B:D. >_< Assuming it stayed upright and did not spin on an angle throughout the match, it should win 100% (Just like your tests against same-spin direction). It was times when it was knocked onto spinning at an angle that stamina dropped quickly and Dragooon^2 could win by tornado stall. So I wasn't sure if B:D had a problem or Dragooon^2 actually destabilized it (early game) before going to tornado stall.
I would refer you to this test:
theblackdragon Wrote:MF-H Duo Cancer SA165EWD vs. MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85GF
Beys alternated launching first. Cygnus STALLED.
Cancer: wins, 10/10 (9 OS, 1 self-KO)
Cygnus: wins, 0/10
MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85GF win rate: 0%
Zancrow Wrote:MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85GF vs. MF-H Duo Gasher B:D
- Phantom in Stamina Mode
- Just Tornado Stalling
Cygnus: 0 Win (0 KO, 0 OS)
Gasher: 10 Win (0 KO, 10 OS)
Cygnus Win Percentage: 0%
GF has very, very low stamina, even when stalling... it's just used for it effectiveness against opposite-spin :\ Could you possibly make a video so we could see what's happening? It may be some sort of launching behavior... Not that I don't believe the test, it's just abnormal. What could be happening is your B:D's mold is flawed, which would cut its solo spin time in half.
I also don't know how this took down Death BD145RDF. That's almost impossible to OS in opposite-spin :S. I could just be thinking too hard though ;) I may be able to test this later today.
Note that I am using Ripcord Launchers (I don't have Beylauncher L or LR), so that might make a difference especially with BD145RDF. Its stamina was really low.
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - nupmuk - Aug. 13, 2013
You should get a Beylauncher LR because there more powerful than ripcord launchers and can launch 2 different directions.
I would do some testing but I don't have the parts or a BB-10.
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - [)ragon - Aug. 13, 2013
(Aug. 13, 2013 1:48 AM)Infie Wrote: Probably I do have a flawed BAssuming it stayed upright and did not spin on an angle throughout the match, it should win 100% (Just like your tests against same-spin direction). It was times when it was knocked onto spinning at an angle that stamina dropped quickly and Dragooon^2 could win by tornado stall.
Oh yah, if its stamina dropped relatively quickly after it had leaned over, then the bearings are probably either dislocated, or just haven't been broken in yet.
I'll try to get some more tests today.
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - 6 God - Aug. 14, 2013
Can you test vs. phantom gasher/Aquario/hades/kerbecs 85 MF?
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - Yuko Ray14 - Aug. 14, 2013
(Aug. 14, 2013 1:41 AM)Kyler_the best Wrote: Can you test vs. phantom gasher/Aquario/hades/kerbecs 85 MF?
Dragooon would win 100%, Dragooon is faster and it has way better balance at the end of the battle.
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - Infie - Aug. 14, 2013
I used to have Beylauncher LR, but it broke 4 days after I got it.
Here's a few more tests.
Equipment
-BB-10 Attack Stadium
-Zero-G Compact Launcher L
-Light Launcher 2
-MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF launched first on all matches (tornado stall)
Against Phantom Gasher 85WD (Stamina Mode) (Click to View)
Against Phantom Gasher 85MF (Attack Mode) (Click to View)
Against Diablo Nemesis BD145RF (Click to View)
I also tried MSF-F Killerken Dragooon S130GF and MSF-F Revizer Dragooon CH120GF. Only an informal 10 tests each because they're different combo from the topic.
MSF-F Killerken Dragooon S130GF vs. Phantom Gasher W145WD (Stamina Mode)
MSF-F Killerken Dragooon S130GF: 9 Win (3 KO, 6 OS)
Phantom Gasher W145WD: 1 Win (1 KO)
MSF-F Killerken Dragooon S130GF Win Rate: 90%
MSF-F Revizer Dragooon CH120GF vs. Phantom Gasher W145WD (Stamina Mode)
MSF-F Revizer Dragooon CH120GF: 10 Win (10 OS)
Phantom Gasher W145WD: 0 Win
1 Draw Redone
MSF-F Revizer Dragooon CH120GF Win Rate: 100%
Both tracks work too.
Not sure if its the track or the different bottom chrome wheel, but I find the Revizer Dragooon had noticeably less rotations at the end (although it won anyway).
PS: Also included which mode Death and Phantom are in.
RE: MSF-F Dragooon Dragooon 85GF - nupmuk - Aug. 14, 2013
Nice tests! Seems to do not so well against 85 stamina.