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[Plastics] :: Competitive Custom List and Public Discussion - th!nk - Jun. 29, 2013
Quote:Plastics Competitive Combinations List
Some quick usage notes:
1. If you want more detail on each type as well as links to each part to see what they look like and what Beyblades they are from, check out the PlasticsDB Competitive Combos List.
2. Unless a specific mold is listed, all common molds are competitive. Note that one mold may work better than the other (for example Wing Cross Mold 1 suffers less recoil and has a better weight distribution than Mold 2, resulting in substantially better performance at the cost of increased fragility).
3. Parts are in alphabetical order or as I remembered them, not best-to-worst. Sometimes when a part is clearly better than the competition for its slot for all combinations of a particular type (and the other parts still result in a competitive combo overall), I have made a note that it is the best. Usually though it's either subjective, dependent on the other parts chosen or a dead heat.
Attack
Smash Attack
Smash Attack combinations aim to bludgeon the opponent out of the ring through brute force, though some can beat the stamina out of opponents and go for the outspin, especially on SG Metal Flat Base (Gaia Dragoon V Version) or higher LAD CGB setups.
Hyper Aggressive Smash (indicated by an [H]): Hyper Aggressive Attack Rings and Setups are those which require significant recoil control (without sacrificing a significant amount of speed) to perform competitively, but once this is done hit noticeably harder than more conventional choices. This almost always requires the use of SG Grip Change Base Tip/Defense Grip Base (though CGB can be okay sometimes) and Wide Defense or a Ten Wide of similar weight, especially against heavier opponents. They generally benefit from the addition of a Heavy Metal Core (whereas standard Smash Attack setups generally want to have the lightest possible SG) and can be worth trying Heavy WDs with to trade some motion recoil control for rotational recoil control (I usually find this counter-productive but YMMV). They do tend to struggle with inability to outspin Grip Defense, though some of the stronger ARs such as Square Edge still have a chance to KO it.
Simple yet brutally effective, Smash Attack is the classic risk vs reward type, with some challenge to use and risk of self-KO rewarded with the ability to have a decent chance against just about anything. Various setups are affordable to boot, making it a great type - if you can keep it in the dish.
Attack Rings
Note: The Black and Metallic Blue versions of Great Dragon and Green version of Gyro Defense seem to suffer from a similar ailment to Takara's Neo Cross Horn, which has been removed from the list as a result (though the Hasbro version remains as while it is a softer plastic it does not appear to break). These parts as well as some other earlier darker recolours of certain parts should be avoided due to their inability to make it through a tournament (often they don't even make it through assembly).
Right Spin:
Corona Saber [H]
Cross Griffon (Takara)
Dark Wing + Dark Wing SAR/Ark Pyramid SAR/War Lion SAR [H]
Double Attacker [H]
Dragon Breaker + Screw Zeus [H]
Dragon Saucer + Screw Zeus [H]
Great Dragon + Screw Zeus/War Lion SAR/Great Tiger SAR/War Bear SAR (Inverted) [H]
Gyro Defense
Mirage Goddess
Moonrazor
Mountain Hammer
Neo Cross Horn (HASBRO ONLY)
Square Edge [H]
Stingroller
Trident Vector [H]
Tigron X [H]
Triple Beak [H]
Triple Tiger
Triple Wing
Upper Claw
Upper Claw (RC Version) (only on SG/BB setups shorter than Defense Grip Base)
Zeo Attack Ring [H]
Left Spin:
Dragon Breaker + Screw Zeus/War Bear SAR [H]
Dragon Saucer + Screw Zeus [H]
Eight Spiker
G Upper
Great Dragon + Screw Zeus/War Bear SAR/War Lion SAR [H]
Hayate Attack Ring (Takara > Hasbro ) [H]
Jungle Shock
Neo Cross Horn (HASBRO ONLY)
Panther Head
Spike Dragon [H]
Square Edge [H]
Triple Beak [H]
Triple Tiger [H]
Triple Wing
Upper Claw (RC Version) (only on SG/BB setups shorter than Defense Grip Base)
Weight Disks
Ten Wide
Wide Defense
Wide Survivor
Ten Heavy [H]
Heavy Attack [H]
Support Parts
Cross Survivor
Defense Ring
Survivor Ring
Twin Guard
Spin Gear/Blade Base Setups
Note: SG Grip Change Base and to a lesser extent the gold version of SG Grip Base suffer from Gold Plastic Syndrome, making them very fragile. As such, their use is not advisable, despite the former being generally the best Attack BB in the game.
SG: Right/Left/Neo Right/Neo Left SG (Regular SG Core Part/Normal Core/Metal Weight Core/North Magnecore/South Magnecore/North Magnecore (Dranzer V Version)/South Magnecore (Dranzer V Version)/Heavy Metal Core)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Tip Inverted), Storm Grip Base (Tip Inverted)
SG: Neo Right/Neo Left SG (Normal Core/Metal Weight Core/North Magnecore/South Magnecore/North Magnecore (Dranzer V Version)/South Magnecore (Dranzer V Version)/Heavy Metal Core)
BB: SG Metal Flat Base (Gaia Dragoon V Version)
SG: None
BB: Grip Base
SG: Neo Right/Neo Left SG (Normal Core/Metal Weight Core/North Magnecore/South Magnecore/Heavy Metal Core)
BB: SG Grip Change Base (FRAGILE!)
Tip: SG Grip Change Base Tip (Attack Mode)
SG: Right/Left/Neo Right/Neo Left SG (Bearing Version 2)
BB: Customize Bearing Base, Defense Grip Base 2, Customize Grip Base (Fresh Tips Only), Magne Flat Base, SG Grip Base
Tip: SG Grip Change Base Tip (Attack Mode)
SG: Neo Right/Neo Left SG (North Magnecore (Dranzer V Version)/South Magnecore (Dranzer V Version), Right/Left/Neo Right/Neo Left SG (Auto Change Version)
BB: Magne Flat Base, SG Grip Base
Tip: Customize Grip Base Tip/SG Grip Base Tip
SG: Right/Left/Neo Right/Neo Left SG (Regular SG Core Part/Normal Core/Metal Weight Core/North Magnecore/South Magnecore/Heavy Metal Core)
BB: Customize Grip Base, Magne Flat Base, SG Grip Base
Tip: Customize Grip Base Tip/SG Grip Base Tip
Spin-Stealing Attack/Offensive Zombies
While perhaps worth considering Balance or even Stamina types (due to Gyro Defense in high-LAD versions (i.e. CGB or FACB) being one of the best Zombie setups as well, though it is somewhat unique), Spin-Stealing Attack aims to use the destabilisation from Upper Attack ARs, as well as some degree of Smash or Upper Attack, to destabilise and outspin opponents, or just straight KO them. Viable attack rings are defined by their ability to KO things the type can usually not outspin, like Zombies. Overall this makes for a very competitive type with a good spread of match ups, though work is needed to control the tip (mostly just consisting of steep banking). The type does cover a fairly wide spectrum between offensive power and LAD ability, with Defense Grip Base 2 + SG (Free Shaft Version) being much better at catching the ridge but Customize Grip Base and Full Auto Clutch Base having much better LAD. A more recent development in the type is the use of Right Engine Gear (Metal Flat), which as discovered by WBO member Broyeeto has the ability on some Final Clutch Bases to fire after toppling over providing a late burst of Life After Death to net outspins against some Defensive Zombies while KOing due to the respectable shape of the tip and relatively usable mid battle EG burst. These also have slightly more defense than other options due to their bulky build and have been termed "V8" combos due to their engine mechanic.
Note: Aim to use opposite spin to opponent for full effectiveness, though this is not always critical - Same Spin is sometimes more useful when trying to KO.
Attack Rings
Right Spin:
Cyclo Chaos
Moonrazor
Stingroller
Triangle Wing
Upper Claw
Upper Claw (RC Version)
Upper Dragoon
Left Spin:
Gyro Defense (Green version tends to be fragile)
Mirage Goddess
Triangle Wing
Upper Claw (RC Version)
Upper Dragoon
Weight Disks
Wide Defense
Wide Survivor
Support Parts
Defense Ring (Best)
Survivor Ring
Cross Survivor
Twin Guard
Spin Gears (Standard SG)
SG: Right/Left/Neo Right/Neo Left Spin Gear
Casings: SG (Free Shaft Version), SG (Full Auto Clutch Version) (with Full Auto Clutch Base only)
Shaft: SG (Full Auto Clutch Version) Shaft
Spin Gear (Engine Gear)
SG: Right Engine Gear (Metal Flat)
Blade Bases (Standard SG)
Customize Bearing Base
Customize Grip Base
Defense Grip Base 2
Full Auto Clutch Base
Blade Bases (Engine Gear)
Final Clutch Base (Dranzer G Version)
Final Clutch Base (Gaia Dragoon G Version)
Traditional Upper Attack
Roaring back from the dead like a hand punching upwards from the grave (and uppercutting a compact in the process), the legalisation of "Storm Grip Tip Flip" providing a fast, HMC-compatible low-height Blade Base has given the much loved Upper Attack type the consistency it needed to be competitive once more.
Using slopes to lift opponents for upper attack as well as smash (upward smash and regular) to further capitalise on their opponents sudden loss of traction, as well as heavily destbilising opponents make these combos as versatile and deadly as Storm Grip Inverted is hard to control, and the excitement of seeing even the heaviest combinations sent sailing high over a wall made the type the darling of many old school bladers.
While the type performs well against just about anything it can get under in same or opposite spin, it should be noted that while Smash-Capable Left-Spin Attack Rings perform somewhat better against Circle Survivor Combinations. Right Spin invocations are thoroughly curbstomped by the Dish of Doom, and less Smash Capable options (Upper Dragoon and Triangle Wing) can struggle even in Left (though their more consistent lifting is a valid trade off).
Despite their weakness to a fairly common competitive type, Upper Attack's ability to basically ignore the presence of walls when tossing opponents out of the ring can make them more reliable against many opponents in a tournament situation than pure Smash Attack (though Square Edge is notable for being the best Smash Attack AR in the game and just happening to also have some mean upper which is hard to spot under the copious Smash Attack).
There is one other weakness modern players should be aware of however - and that is Stadiums with shrouds. Burst Standard and its ilk can have Beyblades bounce off the roof instead of entering the pockets and the shroud prevents over-wall KOs. The type can also be quite hard to contain within BB10's disappointingly weak ridge, though it remains very viable here due to the deeper dish. Tornado Attack, then, is Upper Attack's home ground - only fitting for a type steeped in so much history - hopefully some day we see Tornado Attack itself relieve a similar revival.
Attack Rings
Right Spin:
Corona Saber
Cross Attacker
Gigantic Claw
Square Edge
Triangle Wing
Triple Tiger
Triple Wing
Upper Claw
Upper Claw (RC Version)
Upper Dragoon
War Lion + Screw Zeus (may be fragile)
War Monkey + Screw Zeus
Whale Crusher
Left Spin:
Corona Saber
G Upper
Penta Wing
Square Edge
Triangle Wing
Upper Claw (RC Version)
Upper Dragoon
Whale Attacker (Some colours are fragile (eg Navy) or prone to UV damage (Standard Release Blue) leading to fragility.
Weight Disks
Wide Defense
Heavy Attack
Star Attack (with Penta Wing only)
Ten Balance
Ten Heavy
Ten Wide
Spin Gears
Neo Right/Neo Left SG (Heavy Metal Core)
Neo Right SG/Neo Left SG (North Magnecore/South Magnecore/North Magnecore (Dranzer V Version)/South Magnecore (Dranzer V Version))
Blade Base
Storm Grip Base (Tip Inverted)
Defense
Circle Survivor Defense
A staple competitive type, Circle Survivor Defense uses Circle Survivor as a shield against opposing Beyblades and a method to force smash them into the stadium floor and then use its semi-free spinning top section for momentum to outspin them even after toppling. Ten Heavy is the conventional choice, basically making a pseudo-compact with a giant shield. Circle Survivor Defense is very versatile with a wide range of good match ups (though their somewhat unusual nature means they can sometimes lose to random jumbles of parts (including some particularly hilarious things at times), they do well against most suboptimal combos), and very hard to KO in general, to the point it impacts the Attack meta, forcing them to use taller setups than they would otherwise want to. However it is very susceptible to hits above the dish - part of why such compact setups are used for the upper half, alongside Right EG (Circle Defenser) being preferred for extra height. Overall, they are one of the more dominant types in the game, especially as they are fairly accessible, and something anyone attending a tournament needs a reliable answer to - usually a well optimised, very stable spin-stealing combo or something able to hit clear over Circle Survivor.
Attack Rings
Bound Defense Ring (Fragile!)
Holy Despell + War Lion SAR
Reverse Wolf (Hasbro)
Roller Defense Ring (Somewhat fragile, but generally optimal)
Tiger Defenser
Twin Horn (Hasbro) + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Twin Horn (Takara)
War Lion + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Wing Attack Ring (Fragile!)
Wing Cross (Fragile!)
Weight Disks
Ten Balance
Ten Heavy
Wide Defense
Engine Gear/Blade Base Setups
EG: Right Engine Gear (Circle Survivor)
BB: Normal Base (Wolborg 4 Version), Normal Base (Rock Bison Version)
CEW Part: Circle Survivor
EG: Right Engine Gear (Circle Defenser)/Right Engine Gear (Mystery Cutter)
BB: Final Clutch Base (Desert Sphinxer Version), Normal Base (Wolborg 4 Version), Normal Base (Rock Bison Version)
CEW Part: Circle Survivor
Circle Survivor/Weight Defense Hybrid (Fixed Circle Survivor Combo)
Somewhat similar to Circle Survivor Defense, this setup semi-fixes Circle Survivor in place for a more conventional Weight Based Defense setup from the weight provided by First Clutch Base (Zeus Version) and Circle Survivor - on par with even the heaviest Weight Based Defense setups, though it generally uses defensive ARs rather than the more assertive ARs of regular Weight Based Defense due to lower aggression and less compact distribution making those ARs more of a liability than a benefit. They are somewhat less susceptible to high hits and outspins by weird esoteric jumbles of parts, but overall regular Circle Survivor combos are usually better against other competitive types. These are nonetheless highly effective defensively and pack solid Survival to boot.
Attack Rings
Bound Defense Ring (Fragile!)
Holy Despell + War Lion SAR
Reverse Wolf (Hasbro)
Roller Defense Ring (Somewhat fragile, but generally optimal)
Tiger Defenser
Twin Horn (Hasbro) + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Twin Horn (Takara)
War Lion + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Wing Attack Ring (Fragile!)
Wing Cross (Fragile!)
Weight Disks
Ten Balance
Ten Heavy
Wide Defense
Engine Gear/Blade Base Setup:
EG: Right Engine Gear (Circle Defenser)/Right Engine Gear (Mystery Cutter)
BB: First Clutch Base (Zeus Version)
CEW Part: Circle Survivor
Defensive Zombies
Another of the more powerful types in the game, but generally relatively expensive to optimise, Defensive Zombies focus on use of Bearings, Low Recoil, and LAD to outspin opponents, but using their defining part, SG (Bearing Version 2) Shaft for grip. Compared to Zombies this trades off a lot of stability and some same-spin performance in exchange for being remarkably difficult to KO. They are sometimes capable of aggressive movement with correct launching to KO their opponents but can struggle with other Zombies and depending on setup they can either be an easy answer to or a bad choice against Circle Survivor Defense - this all comes down to Stability. For stability, SG (Bearing Version 2) Casings are preferred, but Neo SG (Double Bearing Version) is useful for greater defense while still being highly effective - the poorer stability really only becomes an issue with the highly obscure Metal Bit Chip. Their one big risk is getting a same-spin match up vs anything that can stall them out, and the most powerful attackers do still retain some chance of overcoming their grip, resulting in extremely forceful KOs. Nonetheless, they are a serious contender for the “best” all-around combo type, especially as they match up well against other popular combos.
Attack Rings
Right Spin:
Bound Defense Ring (Fragile!)
Reverse Wolf (Hasbro)
Roller Defense Ring (Fragile!)
Tiger Defenser
Twin Horn (Hasbro) + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Twin Horn (Takara)
Upper Dragoon
War Lion + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Wing Attack Ring (Fragile!)
Wing Cross (Fragile!)
Left Spin:
Reverse Wolf (Hasbro)
Scissor Attacker
Tiger Defenser
Twin Horn (Hasbro) + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Twin Horn (Takara)
Upper Dragoon
War Lion + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
War Monkey + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Weight Disk
Wide Defense
Wide Survivor can be used for increased Spin-Stealing ability (as well as better LAD with certain Blade Bases), but this results in a combo more in line with a regular Zombie due to the significant reduction in defensive ability.
Spin Gears
SG: Right/Left/Neo Right/Neo Left Spin Gear
Casings: Double Bearing Core, SG (Bearing Version 2)
Shaft: SG (Bearing Version 2) Shaft
Support Parts
Cross Survivor
Defense Ring
Survivor Ring
Twin Guard
Blade Bases
Customize Grip Base
Defense Grip Base 2
Grip Defense
Grip Defense makes use of Defense Grip Base’s Rubber Sharp Tip (or SG Grip Change Base's, which is better but generally won’t survive a match due to gold plastic syndrome), to withstand the hardest hits. The stamina is abysmal, but as a counter to Hyper Aggressive Attack they are arguably the top choice, though usually even here they need to stick to Wide Defense to avoid random outspin losses (especially as there is really minimal defensive trade-off, Ten Heavy is mostly listed for accessibility). Note that this type puts heavy strain on the AR so there is significant breakage risk.
Overall, these combos have a very limited scope but are absolutely the best at what they do.
Attack Rings
Right Spin:
Bound Defense Ring (Fragile!)
Holy Despell + War Lion/War Monkey SAR
Reverse Wolf (Hasbro)
Roller Defense Ring (Fragile!)
Spark Attack Ring
Tiger Defenser
Twin Horn (Hasbro) + Dragon Saucer SAR
Twin Horn (Takara)
War Lion + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Wing Attack Ring (Fragile!)
Wing Cross (Fragile!)
Left Spin:
Holy Despell + War Lion/War Monkey SAR
Reverse Wolf (Hasbro)
Scissor Attacker
Tiger Defenser
Twin Horn (Hasbro) + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Twin Horn (Takara)
War Lion + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
War Monkey + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Weight Disks
Wide Defense
Ten Heavy
Spin Gears
Neo Right/Neo Left Spin Gear (Heavy Metal Core)
Support Parts
Cross Survivor
Defense Ring
Survivor Ring
Twin Guard
Blade Bases
Defense Grip Base (Sharp)
SG Grip Change Base + SG Grip Change Base Tip (Sharp) (Extremely Fragile!)
Weight Based Defense
Perhaps as much a Balance type as a Defense type, Weight Defense is what it says on the tin - pack on weight and use that to take hits. This works pretty well, but they do tend to be a bit easier to KO than other defense types, depending how recoily their opponent is (they do prey on recoil quite well), but with particularly heavy SG Metal Ball Bases and use of high-weight Bit Chips and parts, they can begin to pose a significant threat to even the best Attack types. In exchange for this however, they have excellent same spin performance and some offensive ability, as well as a degree of Force Smash or Destabilisation if they use certain Attack Rings, making them highly versatile - the reason they have been a staple of competitive play for years. CMCB is a more recent addition, being slightly lighter but catching the ridge better and having better stamina than SG Metal Ball Base - it is often the more versatile choice and usually preferred, however particularly heavy samples of SG Metal Ball Base can create heavy enough combos to pose a big defensive threat. Ten Heavy vs Wide Defense is a matter of taste - Ten Heavy is harder to KO and more effective with aggressive launching and has somewhat better grinding ability and is necessary for a full defensive focus, whereas Wide Defense provides better stamina and more aggression throughout the match. Smash Turtle has traditionally been the most famous Attack Ring for the type to capitalise on its advantages (especially as it was used heavily by the most well known Weight Defense player (and perhaps patron saint of the type), Guardian Odin), but lower recoil options can be used to emphasise defense a little more, and Upper Dragoon has its fans for somewhat of a Balance focus. Overall, very versatile with some chance against just about anything, Weight Based Defense is a time-tested competitive type.
Attack Rings
Right Spin:
Reverse Wolf (Hasbro)
Roller Defense Ring
Smash Turtle
Tiger Defenser
Twin Horn (Hasbro) + Dragon Saucer SAR
Upper Dragoon
Vulture
War Lion + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Additional Right Spin AR Options With Wide Defense:
Bound Defense Ring
Wing Cross
Wing Attack Ring (Fragile!)
Left Spin:
Mirage Goddess
Reverse Wolf (Hasbro)
Scissor Attacker
Smash Turtle
Tiger Defenser
Twin Horn (Hasbro) + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Twin Horn (Takara)
Upper Dragoon
War Lion + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
War Monkey + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Weight Disks
Ten Heavy
Wide Defense
Heavy Attack (Wide ARs only)
Spin Gears
Neo Right/Neo Left Spin Gear (Heavy Metal Core)
Support Parts
Cross Survivor
Defense Ring (Best)
Survivor Ring
Blade Bases
Customize Metal Change Base
SG Metal Ball Base (4 Metal Balls)
Survival (Stamina)
Zombies
Perhaps the most famous type in Plastics and HMS, Zombies are the mainstream Stamina type of plastics, being good enough that Stamina in Plastics mostly consists of opposite spin match ups, with more conventional Stamina not really being relevant in a generation where balance types can reliably KO them - an issue the more popular zombies manage somewhat better. They do have effective Same-Spin performance, though with Wide Survivor they do struggle a lot more due to the resulting light weight making them easily knocked about and ground down. The goal is simple - stay round and low recoil to maintain contact for spin stealing, keep the same RPM as the opponent, and then outspin them through superior LAD. Practicality brings variety to the type - Spiral Change Base is objectively the best LAD part in Plastics, but the abysmal KO and same-spin Stamina makes it very risky. Poor stability means Circle Survivor can prey on tips such as Bearing Base Shaft and SG (Bearing Version) Shaft, so while they were previously go-to’s, they are nowadays often passed up for Neo SG (Double Bearing Version) which also has better LAD due to newer use with Customize Grip Base. It can also be disastrous for the previously famous Gyro Defense, which has major stability issues due to its shape. However, the recent use of FACB Shaft in Customize Grip Base for LAD and its high stability has seen it re-emerge from the depths of low tier-2. Overall, Zombies are very capable of outspinning opponents and can be difficult for balance to KO, plus they can make some use of Weak Launching to their advantage. Defensive Zombies do provide some practicality, but Zombies have the stamina advantage for same-spin match ups. This makes them the go-to stamina type. Left Spin naturally sees more use than Right due to the meta and most unoptimised combos being largely Right Spin, but Right Spin does have some great ARs available.
Attack Rings
Right Spin:
Bound Defense Ring (Fragile!)
Reverse Wolf (Hasbro)
Roller Defense Ring (Fragile!)
Tiger Defenser
Twin Horn (Hasbro) + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Twin Horn (Takara)
War Lion + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Wing Attack Ring (Fragile!)
Wing Cross (Fragile!)
Left Spin:
Gyro Defense (with SG (Full Auto Clutch Version) Shaft ONLY) - Green version tends to be fragile
Holy Despell + War Lion/War Monkey SAR
Reverse Wolf (Hasbro)
Scissor Attacker
Tiger Defenser
Twin Horn (Hasbro) + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Twin Horn (Takara)
War Lion + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
War Monkey + War Lion/War Monkey/Dragon Saucer SAR
Weight Disks
Wide Defense
Wide Survivor
Support Parts
Cross Survivor
Defense Ring
Survivor Ring
Twin Guard
Spin Gear/Blade Base Setups
SG: Neo Right/Neo Left Spin Gear
Casings: Double Bearing Core
Shaft: Neo SG (Double Bearing Version) Shaft
BB: Customize Grip Base > Customize Bearing Base, Defense Grip Base 2, SG Bearing Base
SG: Right/Left/Neo Right/Neo Left Spin Gear
Casings: SG (Bearing Version)
Shaft: Bearing Base Shaft, SG (Bearing Version) Shaft, SG (Bearing Version) Shaft (Hasbro)
BB: Customize Grip Base, Defense Grip Base 2, SG Bearing Base
Shaft: Bearing Base Shaft, SG (Bearing Version) Shaft, SG (Bearing Version) Shaft (Hasbro)
BB: Bearing Base
SG: Right/Left/Neo Right/Neo Left Spin Gear
Casing: SG (Full Auto Clutch Version)
Shaft: SG (Full Auto Clutch Version) Shaft
BB: Full Auto Clutch Base
SG: Right/Left/Neo Right/Neo Left Spin Gear
Casings: SG (Free Shaft Version)
Shaft: SG (Full Auto Clutch Version) Shaft
BB: Customize Grip Base
SG: Right/Left/Neo Right/Neo Left Spin Gear
Core/Casings: (Regular SG Core Part/Normal Core/SG (Auto Change Version) > SG (Free Shaft Version) w/ SG (Free Shaft Version) Shaft (Attack Mode Only)
BB: Spiral Change Base (Survial Mode > Attack Mode unless using SG (Free Shaft Version) Shaft)
SG: Right Customize Gear (Free Shaft Version)
Shaft: Customize Gear (Free Shaft Version) Shaft
BB: Normal Base (Wolborg 4 Version), Normal Base (Rock Bison Version)
CEW: Light Sharp
Gyro EG Survival
A relatively recent discovery, Gyro EG Survival combinations rely on the eponymous Gyro Engine Gear's bizarre Gyro gimmicks to outspin opponents. These are thus: firstly, Gyro Engine Gear is the only Dual-Spin-In-Match part in the original series of Beyblade - in a sense, this bizarre thing is not only a precursor to Magical Ape MS, but also the entirety of HMS. More importantly, in Gyro Mode, the entire body of the Beyblade aside from the Engine Gear's pseudo Weight Disk part and CEW are free spinning on a pair of bearings. This means that unlike most Beyblades which lose spin by grinding against opponents, it largely ignores this. In addition, due to this outer part having so little momentum that it can actually be stopped or reversed on contact, it is practically impossible to steal spin from a Gyro EG combination... However all of this is contingent on just how freely the bearings used spin, and the combination is only viable with two good Shielded Metal Ball Bearings. Nonetheless, when it works it is nearly impossible to outspin, being able to switch spin directions at will and creating a bizarre visual almost akin to T-Posing over its opponents as they keel over and die. However, limited defensive ability does make it a sitting duck versus aggressive opponents, meaning it is slightly more risky than Zombies in this sense. As a spinning mess of ruling nightmares, it also must be remembered that the combinations "spinning vs stopped" determination is based on the metal piece and CEW still being spinning rather than the AR and BB.
Attack Rings
Holy Despell + Dragon Breaker/Dragon Saucer/War Monkey SAR
Roller Defense Ring
Tiger Defenser
Twin Horn (Hasbro) + Dragon Breaker/Dragon Saucer/War Monkey SAR
Twin Horn (Takara)
War Lion + Dragon Breaker/Dragon Saucer/War Monkey SAR
War Monkey + Dragon Breaker/Dragon Saucer/War Monkey SAR
Spin Gear
Gyro Engine Gear
Blade Base
Engine Stopper Base
Customize Engine Weight
Metal Sharp
Jumping Base 2 Grind
Another recent discovery, with credit going to DeathOnion404... Though being the person who thought "hey let's try to make Cyber Dragoon's Blade Base competitive" is perhaps worrying. The combination aims to use the free spinning disk of an activated Jumping Base 2 to grind against opponents similar to Force Smash combinations or a late-game Circle Survivor. Use of the incredibly wide and edge distributed Hasbro version of Flying Defense (the Takara version has too much recoil on its underside) provide enough stability to then net outspins vs most competitive opponents that cannot KO it. The Beyblade should be launched with the tip already extended though the jumping gimmick can be used as a long shot attempt to KO an opposing Zombie or the like.
Attack Rings
Flying Defense (Hasbro)
Weight Disks
Ten Heavy
Ten Wide
Wide Defense
Spin Gears
Weaker springs tend to perform better
Right/Left/Neo Right/Neo Left SG (Spring Version) + SG (MG Spring Version) Shaft
Right/Left/Neo Right/Neo Left SG (MG Spring Version)
Blade Bases
Jumping Base 2
Balance/Misc
Compacts
The classic Plastics Balance combo, and one of the greatest representations of all-around Balance types in any series of Beyblade, compacts focus on being highly compact (duh) - as much weight in as small a package as possible, then using small, low recoil Attack Rings (though the most popular and generally most well-rounded, like Tiger Defenser, pack surprisingly solid offense to round out coverage). This makes them hard to KO and allows them to grind down opponents or use their sheer momentum and slightly aggressive design to knock out defensively weaker opponents. They also tend to be quite accessible, and this, combined with their reliable performance against less optimal combos (especially in the case of the very versatile Change tips), makes them popular at tournaments and a fairly reliable go to when going in blind. Metal Change Base is usually the better Blade Base but is harder to control which can take it too close to the ridge vs Attack, however the versatility and solid Stamina and LAD make it overshadow other options. Metal Ball Base does pack in greater maximum weight and more consistent behaviour, and Customize Metal Change Base takes the type into Weight Based Defense territory. SG Semi-Flat Base is… there. It’s fine, sure - predictable and accessible. Wide Defense sees some use, primarily in Left Spin to trade off defence for survival/spin stealing and aggression. Without it, Left Spin compacts tend to be quite obscure due to lack of low recoil, offensively capable compact Attack Rings in this direction. With it, they have a surprising spread of match ups against many popular combinations, especially thanks to the surprisingly good LAD of Metal Change Base. Overall, they have earned their place as a go-to competitively, though many competitive combos are specifically assessed on their ability to defeat Compacts which makes them somewhat less safe in an ideal meta, they do very well against generic non-optimal combos (“tourney filler”) as well as having a shot against a lot of competitive types nonetheless.
Attack Rings
Right Spin:
Bound Defense Ring (Very Fragile!)
Flame Wing (Very Fragile!)
Reverse Wolf (Hasbro)
Roller Defense Ring (Somewhat Fragile!)
Tiger Defenser
Twin Horn (Takara)
War Lion + War Lion SAR
Wing Attack Ring (Fragile!)
Wing Cross (Mold 1 is very fragile, Mold 2 somewhat fragile)
Left Spin:
Double Wing (with Wide Defense only)
Flame Wing (Somewhat Fragile)
Reverse Wolf (Hasbro)
Scissor Attacker
Tiger Defenser
Twin Horn (Takara)
War Lion + War Lion SAR
Weight Disks
Ten Balance
Ten Heavy > Heavy/Eight Heavy
Wide Defense
Spin Gears
Neo Right/Neo Left Spin Gear (Heavy Metal Core)
Support Parts
Defense Ring
Blade Bases
Customize Metal Change Base
Metal Ball Base
Metal Change Base
SG Semi-Flat Base
Driger V2 Customs
Driger V2 is far and away the best stock Beyblade Takara released for Plastics, and goes toe-to-toe with Wolborg MS from HMS for best Stock Beyblade overall in the context of their respective generations. The incredible chemistry of its parts allow it to basically make up a type of its own. Its weight, weight distribution, and versatile behaviour make for a powerful all-rounder, being capable of outspinning a surprising number of combinations via weight distribution and destabilisation, ramping attackers up its ramps for KOs (Left Spin, particularly) while withstanding their hits somewhat with its weight and walled sides, and knocking out Survival and some Balance and Defense types, only really struggling with Defensive Zombies and Circle Survivor Defense. Some simple upgrades such as an HMC and Wide Defense provide straight upgrade to functionality, but other properties, particularly aggression, may be emphasised through other parts with inevitable trade-offs for doing so.
Attack Ring
Upper Claw
Weight Disks
Wide Defense
Ten Balance
Ten Heavy
Ten Wide
Heavy Attack
Support Parts
Upper Attack
Spin Gear/Blade Base Setups
SG: Neo Right SG (North Magnecore/South Magnecore/North Magnecore (Dranzer V Version)/South Magnecore (Dranzer V Version)/Heavy Metal Core)
BB: Customize Metal Change Base
SG: Right/Neo Right SG (Regular SG Core Part/Normal Core/Metal Weight Core/North Magnecore/South Magnecore/Heavy Metal Core)
BB: Customize Grip Base
Tip: Customize Grip Base Tip
SG: Neo Right SG (Normal Core/Metal Weight Core/North Magnecore/South Magnecore/Heavy Metal Core)
BB: Customize Grip Base
Tip: SG Grip Base Tip
SG: Neo Right SG (Normal Core/Metal Weight Core/North Magnecore/South Magnecore/Heavy Metal Core)
BB: SG Grip Change Base (Extremely Fragile!)
Tip: SG Grip Change Base Tip (Attack Mode)
SG: Right/Neo Right SG (Bearing Version 2)
BB: Customize Bearing Base/Customize Grip Base (CGB with Near Mint Tips Only)
Tip: SG Grip Change Base Tip (Attack Mode)
Force Smash
A relatively new and generally lesser-known competitive Type, Force Smash combos have a very narrow range of usable parts, however they do have a good spread of match ups, again being a type with a chance against most opponents. High weight (especially with SG Grip Base Tip, which brings them close to Weight Defense levels) can make them viable against Attack (though their tendency to be near the ridge and not catch it super well is a problem, their momentum helps compensate), and their signature part- Smash Turtle - allows them to Force Smash and grind opponents into the dish, resulting in outspins against many types, including decent winrates against Circle Survivor Defense and Compacts. Meanwhile, the aggressive rubber tips allow KOs of defensively poor opponents that would otherwise outspin them and help enhance grinding through handling rotational recoil. Lack of understanding of the type combined with having to work with rubber tips is a big inhibitor of tournament presence (and Deck Format basically removes them from the game, illustrating its unsuitability for Plastics), but overall they can be a shockingly effective type that many opponents may not be prepared for.
Note: Same spin is generally better for more effective grinding, but both are usable.
Attack Ring
Smash Turtle
Weight Disks
Wide Defense > Ten Heavy
Spin Gears
Neo Right/Neo Left Spin Gear (Heavy Metal Core)
Support Parts
Defense Ring
Twin Guard
Blade Bases
Customize Grip Base + Customize Grip Base Tip/SG Grip Base Tip
SG Grip Change Base (Extremely Fragile!)
I finally got this done. Took a long time but the result should be pretty much accurate, even if it probably won't actually be hugely useful to most people given the nature of the generation nowadays. But as I said, I had to do it/the relevant research for it for something else and it's about time the generation had one AND Plastics/HMS Remembrance Day is coming up soon enough so here you go.
Would rather keep any extra explanations as to why parts were included/excluded-if-they-are-well-known-for-things to a minimum until I'm done with the database as it'll cover most stuff anyway. The following spoiler contains a bunch of explanations for various things too.
Notes/Some explanations for certain exclusions etc (Click to View)
But yeah I hope this actually helps people. I'll keep this updated whenever new stuff gets discovered and so on, as I mentioned there's already one thing at least that I need to check out for potential inclusion, which is Heavy Attack for certain weight-based things that help prevent it taking hits (it's obscure, not really revolutionary, and a pain to verify as Heavy Attack is rare so there aren't reliable weights for it that I know of), so I went ahead and left it off. Left Spin Compacts also probably need some closer examination to make sure they're truly competitive but they at least work against some things on this list and some other common stuff, so no real harm in leaving them up, especially with the note there.
With love,
-th!nk
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - ShinobuXD - Jun. 29, 2013
Yes! Plastics CC list!
I'm pretty excited you put FACB on there, even though you pretty much told me it was top tier, lol.
I see nothing that looks wrong at all IMO.
EDIT: oh cool it's already stickied!
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - Dual - Jun. 29, 2013
Wow, very nice! I'm really glad this is here!
Thanks for the hard work th!nk, it's greatly appreciated!
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - Benjohadi - Jun. 29, 2013
hahah..great job i must say...i also get excited for this thread (even though i have sold most of my plastics)..hahahah..
you have provided many infos that most of us wont be able to obtain (or actually more to unwilling to do / test..XD)
like..who knows that corona saber is actually have potential...
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - ShinobuXD - Jun. 29, 2013
I don't see Spin Stealing Upper Attack.
SSUA is competitive, right?
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - th!nk - Jun. 29, 2013
Thanks all three of you, and to whichever BeyWizard stickied it (I'm guessing Kai-V?)
The list itself honestly only took about three days of work to get done once I started it, but getting to the point where I could actually write one and be confident in what was up there was the big delay (as well as deliberations about what was/wasn't worth calling competitive and how the heck I was going to format it all).
In the end, between just gradually having the time to try a bunch of stuff and the way I was working on this database thing (I decided to break it down and start with competitive parts first, which then meant listing all the beys with competitive or near-competitive parts, which broke the problems I was having with the CC list down to a size where it was much easier to handle).
To be honest, I probably could've done one a long time ago, but I think the delay resulted in a more accurate list overall.
Benjohadi: Haha, Corona Saber aint nothing on using my Orthrus AR (which is probably the most violent AR up there), seeing as I don't have an Orthrus G, and using my mold 1 Wing Cross from my NIB UFD was probably the thing I worried about the most. Plus all of the Hyper Aggressive stuff was checked on Uriel 2's tip bwahaha. Then again, I was pretty surprised Corona Saber worked at all, it doesn't look to have much in the way of contact points but those wingtips apparently have just enough clearance to make contact reliably, looking at the wear. Shame Delta Wave fell just short though, that would've been a really cool surprise.
ShinobuXD: It's always a good feeling to have found something competitive, haha. Big part of what drove me to get really into plastics myself, and in general discovering stuff like that is a big part of why I enjoy beyblade so much. It's a shame the setup didn't work for Spin Stealing Upper Attack, though (if you didn't see I edited my observations from trying that into my most recent post in plastics parts discussion), but still, I'm very glad you spotted it seeing as I had well and truly dismissed FACB as a useless part haha.
EDIT: WOOOOAH WHERE DID SSUA GO?!
Man I hope I had that backed up somewhere... Yes it is competitive and it'll be up there soon.
EDIT 2: Nope, gotta rewrite that, must've got distracted and not pasted it - dunno why I didn't notice, either, seeing as I actually mentioned attack only had one thing in it in the notes and also mentioned SSUA being in attack in said notes.
EDIT 3: Fixed it. Glad it was one of the small ones (though I guess if it weren't I would've noticed it myself before I posted the thread, haha).
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - Kai Hiwatari - Jun. 29, 2013
Awesome list, good work.
I am glad I can finally see where my combos ranked as far as competitiveness, even though I always had a pretty good idea.
It's quite a shame I will more than likely never be able to get a lot of the Top Attack AR's due to how hard to come by they already were back in Plastic's prime let alone now.
But again, the list is fantastic, it covers everything.
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - th!nk - Jun. 29, 2013
Nice to hear from someone from back then, thank you very much for the kind words and feedback - it means a lot coming from you!
Do you mean the AR's or the bases? The bases have always been the big issue as far as I know (and definitely in my own experience), Grip Base and SG Grip Change Base (or even just its tip, haha - shame no one stumbled on the Wolborg 2 Casings thing earlier or we might have a few more around) in particular being so hard to find in an already defensive metagame really doesn't help things at all. Grip Base pops up every now and then, and Customize Grip Base sometimes shows up at a fair price and works pretty well (though often Dragoon V2 is only sold at pretty crazy prices - no clue why). If only Dragoon S's didn't require a filler to stay in place when put in upside down and from below, there'd probably be enough of a precedent (spin up guide book vol 1) and enough of a benefit to legalise it, but them's the breaks. Still, if you just want a crazy as heck rubber tipped base to muck around with, a little blu-tac around the tip and you're good to go, and it's totally reversible to boot (though any damage it does to stadia while flying around at a thousand miles per hour isn't, haha), doesn't have the best recoil control but at that speed any collision results in something going flying, so there are probably ways to compensate for that.
Attack Ring wise, Triple Tiger is one of the best value for money parts in the game (it usually works better on lighter setups - wide survivor works better than wide defense for it, unlike every other Attack AR, though that may have only been on Uriel 2's tip, it's been a while since I played around with it), hits hard, has some upper as well, and unlike Cross Griffon and most of the Hyper Aggressive set it doesn't break things or tear holes in stadium walls that often. Shame it doesn't do well against Circle Survivor Combos, though (if it did it'd probably still be my main attack AR instead of the ridiculous Screw Zeus setups I use.)
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - TimeOut - Jun. 29, 2013
Wow, a lot of great information that I will read over time, looks great, nothing looks wrong, other than some spoilers would be useful
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - th!nk - Jun. 29, 2013
I considered putting them in but I also didn't want to make it a pain to get to the actual information, so I tried to make the sections clearly divided with spacing and bold/underline/italics rather than hide everything in spoilers. Might fiddle around with it a little more tomorrow to see if I can make the divisions a little clearer.
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - Kai Hiwatari - Jun. 29, 2013
Well, Blade Base's and Attack Ring's I guess. Since a lot of the more competitive parts were released towards the end of Hasbro's Beyblade run, it seemed like that the selection was always very scarce. I was fortunate to find the few V2 and G Beyblades that I did. I did manage to get a few, but then in terms of parts such as Heavy Metal Core, Wide Survivor, and Wide Defense, I was not so lucky haha.
Triple Tiger has always been one of my favorites, and fortunately I have two still in really good condition. I have two Customize Grip Bases, but am very limited on Support Parts of any kind. I mean, I have a decent amount of parts on the list, probably more than some people, but after seeing the list it's kind of another reminder that I should have stocked up a lot more than what I did.
Maybe some day I can stumble across some crazy lot of Beyblades and I will be set
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - th!nk - Jun. 29, 2013
Ahh, right. Honestly most of my collection was gained over the last couple of years (it really is luck - though good friends made a lot of that luck for me), I think I only saw Dragoon V, Metal Dranzer and the Magnecore Accessory Pack, as well as RC Dragoon/Dranzer V2 out of the entire V Force line, though G Revolution was a little better (the original series was decent in terms of what I could find I think, but specific stores tended to be quite limited and I was usually searching for whatever had the most stars, hah). Still, those that did stock up back then mostly sold off a lot of what they had quite cheap and now regret it, so it could be worse. The whole Uriel 2 thing is really not at all helped by hasbro not releasing it at all, and a whole bunch of the Hyper Aggro AR's need it to work properly so it's a real shame.
Still, Triple Tiger is a great AR, so I wouldn't sweat that too much, haha. The fact they only made one three sided SP and made it so rare is annoying (especially when you look at the horrible things they put on Burning Kerberous), but defense ring is pretty good on most things, and after that, well, at least dragoon V2's SP aren't too horrible - Driger V2's AR might be a better fit on that setup, though, it performs pretty similarly to Triple Tiger and is two-sided instead of three sided, so it would probably work out a little better.
As for the Heavy Metal Core, you know Hasbro got as close to actually releasing that as having it in their instructions as well as renaming it IIRC? There's a version of their Metal Driger instructions floating around the web with it included. Shocks me that it got that far before they pulled the plug, honestly.
Of course, a big part of the reason why I said this list is probably only of limited use is because of the poor part availability - most people won't be able to make this stuff, at least not in full, relying on other parts as substitutes and so on. Part of why I didn't do this til now, and even now I only wrote it out because it's part of something more useful.
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - ShinobuXD - Jun. 30, 2013
I think part availability isn't too horrible except for ridiculous stuff like Ariel 2's tip(oh how I wish Seaborg base mod was legal) and Twin Horn tbh. I've acquired 20 plastics(most of the essentials), Wide Defense, Tornado Attack, and a grip for a total of $195, $150 if you take out Dragoon V2. That's cheaper than you can get 20 MFB, a Beylauncher, and a BB-10.(I've only bought four plastics NIB/NIP/Mint though)
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - Kai Hiwatari - Jun. 30, 2013
Mhm, like I remember it was very scarce each new wave that was released. I remember pretty much majority of the stores in my area had all V-Force Beyblades(Flash Leopard & 2, Dranzer, Driger, Draciel, Dragoon V, Metal Dranzer, etc) Up until then, i really didn't have too difficult of a time finding anything, I just would have to hope I could get to other stores. I think the only V2 Blades I actually found in stores was Dragoon V2, Draciel V2, and Wolborg 3. It was similar for G-Revolution, I found Driger G, Dragoon G and Metal Driger no problem, but everything else was very rare. A friend of mine found a Rock Bison and Torch Pegasus. I remember seeing a Dragoon GT and a Gigars, but I elected to get a Zeus that was there instead, never got to go back to get them. So many missed opportunities haha. I got so lucky one day, it had been a few months since I had seen some in stores and then I happened to be at a different Wal-Mart than what I usually went to, and I found Dranzer V2, Vortex Ape, Driger V2, and I believe a Jiraiya Blade MS, 2 Wyvern DJ, Advance Striker and a Samurai Changer MS, all of which were in an aisle, but on a bottom shelf I believe. I was in awe and immediately grabbed all of them up with my little brother and ran to a register and asked how much, and the guy told me that they were .99 cents each! I bought them all, and then continued to look all over the aisles for other, but no luck.
I definitely have parts to make top tier customs, just wish I had more haha.
I do remember hearing about that and seeing the image online, the fact that they did that still bothers me to no end.
Yeah, but how I try to look at it is that there are some Bladers who weer able to make one purchase on ebay or YJA and accumulate a collection of Plastics larger than myself, so maybe I can do that as well one day.
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - ShinobuXD - Jun. 30, 2013
Yeah, I wasn't blading back then, so I don't know what it is was like when plastics were the thing.
Samurai Changer MS for .99 cents? It's worth $70 now!
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - Kai Hiwatari - Jun. 30, 2013
Oh wow, did not realize it is worth that much now.
EDIT - I am pretty sure I found an Advance Striker during that trip as well for .99.
I know I loaded up that night, i had a bag full.
RE: Plastics Competitive Combinations List - th!nk - Jun. 30, 2013
shinobu: the lack of Ariel 2's tip really hurts in a defensive generation like plastics, though. As much as I love plastics for the experimentation side, as an actual competitive game I think HMS is the best generation - but even then the rarity of GFC (UM) is an issue. Anyways, yeah plastics don't always cost that much but you have to have the money to buy bulk and the luck to find a good lot or two, really, which most people don't have.
Kai Hiwatari: Performance wise Zeus is a better bey to have than Dragoon GT anyway - G Upper might be easier to use but its competition is cheap, and Zeus is one of the few Hyper Aggro AR parts that can work 'okay' without Ariel 2's tip. As for me, I scored Dragoon and Dranzer GT for like $10 each a little while after plastics died, NIB off ebay, which was probably my best score back then. Of course, I used them and that meant my Turbo Left EG broke and I later somehow lost the combo it was on, which was:
AR: Dragoon F
WD: 10 Balance, I think? I think I decided the fake gyro WD's I used a lot were causing breakage of EG's and stopped using them together at that point.
EG: Broken Turbo Left EG
BB: Dranzer GT
CEW: Dranzer GT
... I didn't really know what I was doing back then - went by the stars and some crazy theories that were mostly wrong. Stumbled onto a few things through it, but I was just a kid who still held out a hope that bitbeasts were real and that my beyblade contained one called "Stormer" - even though I knew that was ridiculous.
Luckily someone sold me replacement dranzer GT parts a while ago, but I still haven't got myself a new turbo left EG (holding out for a Trygle 2 G whenever I have money again seeing as I don't have the AR).
As for availability, it was basically the same here, I think. I could write out three or four pages of reminiscence of plastic hunting and chance finds and so on, but I think I'll spare the topic that diversion haha.
But yeah, if you want to get back into it/get the parts you're after at any kind of sane price (and this is advice for anyone looking to get into plastics at all, tbh), I'd definitely advise saving up, and a lot of patience and vigilance on top of that, keeping an eye out for lots in particular. A lot of it really is just luck, in the end.
As for HMS, they shot up after a while. Part of it was people paying way too much for stuff on Y!JA apparently, but that was before my time.
Bunch of CC List Update Notes (Most recent 4th September 2013) (Click to View)
RE: [Plastics] :: Competitive Custom List and Public Discussion - BrooklynBEGA - Apr. 26, 2014
Th!nk, do you like Cross Survivor better for Survival/Zombie or Defense Ring?
RE: [Plastics] :: Competitive Custom List and Public Discussion - th!nk - Apr. 27, 2014
Long Version With Plenty Of Unrelated Rambling But A Lot Of Detail If That's Your Jam: Defense Ring is outright better for any survival-focussed combination due to superior Life After Death, though it competes with Defense Grip Base 2, which has superior LAD - with Neo SG (Double Bearing Version), Customize Grip Base adds an additional precession stage before toppling with the shaft section, which is very useful against opponents where you need to stay upright - i.e. Circle Survivor Defense ("Wolborg 4 Combos"), moreso than the extra life after death (survival when the outer underside rim of the base or SP are touching the ground) of Defense Grip Base 2. But for every other shaft, defense grip base 2 is superior (especially as Customize Grip Base has trouble with tips catching inside of it - though this can be used for more reliable aggression from defensive zombies).
Cross Survivor has two advantages over defense ring. It has a more edge-focussed weight distribution, however for stamina matchups even in same-spin there is still the LAD tradeoff that largely renders this pointless - I forget if I've done extensive testing on that and it would be a painful thing to do given how close they are but generally defense ring is the better choice because there's always the chance you're going to face something in opposite spin and its LAD is infinitely more useful there. For Attack Types though, perhaps with the exception of using Mountain Hammer due to obstruction of contact points, Cross Survivor is better - and the best SP if Survivor Ring is unavailable/not suitable spin direction/symmetry wise) as its small protrusions have some small ability to hit opponents without suffering severe recoil (but mostly it's good for the weight distribution really).
The second is that it provides protection to non-round weight disks. For survival types and most defense types this is irrelevant as grip based defense and survival types use Wide Survivor/Wide Defense, which generally take most hits instead of the SP and thus render them largely pointless, while weight based defense customs prefer the compact distribution and additional weight of Defense Ring (which is the second heaviest SP after Upper Attack, having a lot of weight in the attachment area). However, if one lacks Wide Survivor/Wide Defense and is set on making a defensive zombie, then Cross Survivor becomes a better choice than Defense Ring - the results are still pretty mediocre, especially as you're kinda stuck with maybe Magne Weight Disk (which is incredibly lightweight) for the weight disk as 10 Wide does not take hits well at all and still juts out past Cross Survivor at various points, but it's the best you can do for that type without the absolutely essential part for it, Wide Defense. Now whether the loss of spin-stealing and defense leaves you with something more worthwhile than a good Weight Based Defense custom (you're certainly better off with a Circle Survivor Defense custom - but they run close to even the best Defensive Zombies and there's that one ridiculous one I've mentioned before and won't mention again with a plastic tournament coming up which even eclipses defensive zombies for overall utility (and Defensive Zombies are one of the most spammable combination types, only limited by their "not amazing but by no means awful if you're not using CGB" same-spin performance)).
Then there's Survivor Ring, aside from the afforementioned Attack customs (in particular excellent chemistry with Triple Tiger which is less relevant now Defense Grip Base tip inversion is a thing (thus rendering CGB mostly obsolete offensively) especially as Triple Tiger doesn't actually like extra weight, and the fact it's one of the only SP that can hit things reasonably hard without suffering self-defeating amounts of recoil) I've always struggled to really see the point - there might be certain base/sg setups where the angle to the stadium makes it significantly better than Cross Survivor, and I guess in left spin it'd take hits from below better but that sort of thing is in general less noticeable than the LAD loss.
And lastly there's Twin Guard. There's no real reason to use it unless you're trying to be a prat about having the most expensive top or something similarly fatuous (the concept of someone having Orthrus and the parts to use Twin Guard with but not Wolborg 2, Dranzer V2, Voltaic Ape or any of the Dark Series Beys is so unlikely it's irrelevant), but it's still acceptable. That said, I actually don't recall whether comparatives between it and SG Bearing Base (Wolborg) have been done - with Wide Survivor in particular I'd be curious about which would be better, obviously the Neo SG (Double Bearing Version) + CGB precession effect pretty much justifies Twin Guard by itself but SG Bearing Base is one of the parts that fell so narrowly by the wayside something like that could be enough to net a place on the list (now sure, if that turned out in its favour then the omission would be an error - but the lack of something notable that it beats was problematic and it is significantly poorer in terms of LAD than everything else there - and this is assuming that's not also the case with Twin Guard, which could be totally incorrect).
Anyway, away from that little side-track, the differences are of course not so large that they would determine whether a combination is or is not competitive, hence everything being listed, but they're there. LAD for survival combos is one of the things on which you could probably actually 'rank' the parts (and were I to add Wolborg's base, I would struggle to not leave some sort of note saying "it's noticeably poorer than the others" - the "left spin only" note on Twin Guard is generally going to come across as that even if it's not explicitly stated, but SG Bearing Base doesn't really provide an "out" like that and with the state of a lot of BeyWiki's information on Zombies I'm hesitant to leave it unspoken - so I would probably leave such an update until plasticsDB was finished, seeing as SG Bearing Base is kinda borderline anyway (and this is all still that tangent that relies entirely on it actually holding up against twin guard which could well not be the case, haha). Anyway, LAD is at least something where aside from differing stadium slopes of the various legal stadiums and chips/damage to any parts (which I suspect was to blame for me not noticing the CGB+Neo SG Double Bearing Version phenomenon sooner despite its tournament success).
Short Version: Defense Ring is Best Support Part.
RE: [Plastics] :: Competitive Custom List and Public Discussion - Mc Frown - Jun. 24, 2014
Defense Ring is the only Support Part worth owning, I can attest to that.
but Driger V2's is really fun
RE: [Plastics] :: Competitive Custom List and Public Discussion - Neo - Jun. 24, 2014
(Jun. 24, 2014 8:02 PM)Mc Frown Wrote: Defense Ring is the only Support Part worth owning, I can attest to that.
but Driger V2's is really fun
It's good; but only with his own AR. (Driger V2 and Support)
RE: [Plastics] :: Competitive Custom List and Public Discussion - V2 - Jun. 24, 2014
(Jun. 24, 2014 8:02 PM)Mc Frown Wrote: Defense Ring is the only Support Part worth owning, I can attest to that.
but Driger V2's is really fun
C'mon, you can't completely ignore what th!nk just wrote one post above you!
Driger V2 on CGB is beastly and fun.
Cross Survivor has it's niche too
RE: [Plastics] :: Competitive Custom List and Public Discussion - Kai Hiwatari - Jul. 18, 2014
I would not go as far as to say that Defense Ring is the only Support Part worth owning. Defense Ring is a fantastic part, other parts such as Cross Survivor, Survivor Ring, and as mentioned above, Upper Attack, all can be used successfully. In some cases, it is possibly better to use one of the aforementioned parts over Defense Ring. I will say though, that Defense Ring does in fact find itself as the more useful and flexible Support Part for majority of customs, but again, other Support Parts can prove to be just as effective, if not more effective in certain Customizations.
RE: [Plastics] :: Competitive Custom List and Public Discussion - Neo - Jul. 18, 2014
Fin Tector is great for Smash...
But then again, you have an Attack Ring for ATTACKING. xD
It's also great for sucking. Shut up, 2014 Neo.
RE: [Plastics] :: Competitive Custom List and Public Discussion - Kai Hiwatari - Jul. 18, 2014
(Jul. 18, 2014 8:49 AM)Neo Wrote: Fin Tector is great for Smash...
But then again, you have an Attack Ring for ATTACKING. xD
Ah Fin Tector, I remember the day I got a Draciel V2. I slapped the Fin Tector Support Parts onto a Customize Grip Base and tested it a few times against another custom that I can not recall the combination of, and one of the Fin Tector parts snapped in half due to the ridiculous amount of recoil. I was quite disappointed and eventually learned my lesson about not using Support Parts for Attack once the same thing happened with my Reverse Attack Support Parts haha.