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+---- Thread: Flash discussion. (/Thread-Flash-discussion)
RE: Flash discussion. - JBladerMS - Mar. 18, 2012
If I wasn't dirt-broke, I would totally by Flash. Life is cruel.
I don't claim to be an expert, but this is my logic. I hope it's not too bad:
I believe that the use of balance parts, rather than defense parts, have been contributing to Flash's outstanding win rates. Basically, we have been worshiping CS as a defense bottom lol. We have forgotten that CS has moderate defensive capabilities (inferior to RS), but with dramatically boosted stamina as a balance. Don't get me wrong, it's good to use CS, as our metagame (generally) just isn't that populated with attack types. Now, I feel that the metagame should see a rise in attackers now, especially ones utilizing Flash (and winning, such as DefStamina's case). Flash, in many ways, balances out the metagame: It just murders stamina combos (as it should), but should have more trouble with defense. Defense. That's the key word. Combos like Duo BD145CS aren't pure defense in my eyes; they're a balance of Defense and Stamina. Duo has defense and stamina (as a balance). BD145 is the same. CS is the same. What we get is a balance combo that can take hits with the trade-off of some stamina. The number of Flash users will only increase as more people discover how good it is, so if someone wants to use a defense combo, they'll need pure defense.
I suggest testing Flash against our best defense combos, but this time using RB, RDF, and even RS if possible. Anti-Attack combos are welcome too (MF BasaltBD145RF?).
If I had the proper resources, I'd be testing like there's no tomorrow, but I'll leave it to you guys. Good luck!
RE: Flash discussion. - Dan - Mar. 18, 2012
I've only used RDF for my tests..?
Don't take CS out of the picture though, there is a completely different dynamic there that do mess with you when you're used to all out defense tips.. :V
RE: Flash discussion. - JBladerMS - Mar. 18, 2012
(Mar. 18, 2012 5:05 AM)Dan Wrote: I've only used RDF for my tests..?
Don't take CS out of the picture though, there is a completely different dynamic there that do mess with you when you're used to all out defense tips.. :V
Whoops! I forgot about your tests, Dan. Sorry, man.
I mostly had RB in mind, though. RS and RDF are secondary bottoms.
Hmm.. I'm trying to think of something that can hold off Flash long enough for it to last more than mid-game...
RE: Flash discussion. - Dan - Mar. 18, 2012
RF.
So then you think RB is better than RS and RDF?
RE: Flash discussion. - $greenbucks$ - Mar. 18, 2012
I decided to test Flash again to see how many OHKO Flash can get against Duo BD145CS and here were my results:
MF-H Duo (Stamina Mode) Aquario BD145CS VS. MF Flash (Attack Mode) D125R2F
Duo - 4/20 (All OS)
Flash - 16/20 (All K.O.)
Amount of OHKO - 11
Draws - 3
Flash win percentage : 80%
Also, how do you make letters bold when posting test results?
RE: Flash discussion. - JBladerMS - Mar. 18, 2012
(Mar. 18, 2012 5:42 AM)Dan Wrote: RF.
So then you think RB is better than RS and RDF?
Nah, hahah.
Man, I just wish I had a Flash to test myself. I'd have a much better perception of what to use against it. But yeah, RF sounds good to me . :V
@greenbucks
Highlight the text you want, then click the "B" icon.
RE: Flash discussion. - $greenbucks$ - Mar. 18, 2012
(Mar. 18, 2012 6:13 AM)JBladerMS Wrote:They already have the Sonokong versions of Flash on ebay already, the cheapest I've seen one was for $14.(Mar. 18, 2012 5:42 AM)Dan Wrote: RF.
So then you think RB is better than RS and RDF?
Nah, hahah.
Man, I just wish I had a Flash to test myself. I'd have a much better perception of what to use against it. But yeah, RF sounds good to me . :V
Here's one : http://www.ebay.com/itm/4D-Flash-Sagittario-BB126-Takara-Tomy-New-Masters-Launcher-Free-shipping-/251017375076?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a71cd2d64#ht_3525wt_1037
RE: Flash discussion. - JBladerMS - Mar. 18, 2012
Thanks for the offer, man. Unfortunately, I have to save up for SamuraiIfraid and ShinobiSalamander.
Anyways, nice tests! Looks like Flash is mostly OHKOs.
RE: Flash discussion. - ElevatorMadness - Mar. 18, 2012
(Mar. 17, 2012 10:33 PM)Meow! Wrote: MF Flash (Attack Mode) Escolpio S130R2F vs MF-H Duo (Stamina Mode) Aquario BD145CSNoticed this. That can't be right. Good tests though. My Flash, Death and BB-10 should arrive in 2 weeks or so, any particular combos so I can do them as soon as they arrive?
Flash: 18/20 ( All KO)
Duo: 3/20 ( All OS)
Flash Win Rate: 90%
RE: Flash discussion. - th!nk - Mar. 18, 2012
(Mar. 18, 2012 12:26 PM)DragonManiac86 Wrote:(Mar. 17, 2012 10:33 PM)Meow! Wrote: MF Flash (Attack Mode) Escolpio S130R2F vs MF-H Duo (Stamina Mode) Aquario BD145CSNoticed this. That can't be right. Good tests though. My Flash, Death and BB-10 should arrive in 2 weeks or so, any particular combos so I can do them as soon as they arrive?
Flash: 18/20 ( All KO)
Duo: 3/20 ( All OS)
Flash Win Rate: 90%
EDIT: Oh, I see, yeah, 18+3=21.
Please do elaborate though in future to save us all time.
RE: Flash discussion. - Meow! - Mar. 18, 2012
Gahh sorry about that. I write my tests down on a flashcard. Must've miss-typed. XD Next time i wont copy and paste combos, because i forgot to change them. Its fixed now. XD
RE: Flash discussion. - th!nk - Mar. 18, 2012
Unexpectedly high against BD145CS given you only got one more win against TH170CS, which is a significantly weaker combination (I've never found it able to take hits at all well), but I guess Duo does toe the line between "being KO'd" and "Staying In" against Variares/Blitz, so I can see it being beaten quite a bit more often by flash than them, but that said, weight of the wheel plays a big part too (a lighter than average duo is much easier to KO, again because an average weight one usually "just" survives).
Thanks
RE: Flash discussion. - $greenbucks$ - Mar. 18, 2012
MF- H Duo(Stamina Mode) Aquario TH170CS(170 Mode) VS. MF Flash (Attack Mode) Sagittario CH120R2F
Duo - 2/20 (All OS)
Flash - 18/20 (All K.O.)
Draws : 4
Flash win percentage - 90%
MF-H Duo (Stamina Mode) Aquario BD145CS VS. MF Flash (Attack Mode) Sagittario CH120R2F
Duo - 3/20 (All OS)
Flash - 17/20 (All K.O.)
Draws : 2
Flash win percentage - 85%
RE: Flash discussion. - Sniper - Mar. 18, 2012
My god MF Flash Ketos GB145 RF is amazing! It threw my basalt BD145cs clear over a wall o_o
RE: Flash discussion. - $greenbucks$ - Mar. 18, 2012
(Mar. 18, 2012 4:07 PM)Sniperâ„¢ Wrote: My god MF Flash Ketos GB145 RF is amazing! It threw my basalt BD145cs clear over a wall o_oNot really surprising because Flash can trash Duo, which is better then Basalt.
RE: Flash discussion. - Dark_Mousy - Mar. 19, 2012
Ok i just got my Flash yesterday. Anyone have any testing requests? Im gonna be posting some tomorrow. Ive been using MF H Flash Sag. H145 RF, Its gotten some amazing results against Duo so far.
RE: Flash discussion. - th!nk - Mar. 19, 2012
Really really wanna get a range of tracks tested by a number of people. We know Flash is a top tier attack wheel but we can't put it up in the competitive combo's list until we know what tracks to put on there...
So yeah, anyone who can, tests of 105/W105/DF105 (LW too but I don't see it working quite as well), CH120, D125/T125, 130/S130/WA130, 135, H145 and GB145, whichever of those you can, would be much appreciated, all against the same opponent so we can figure out what's best. That's just my shortlist based on Brood's huge load of tests, that seems to be the sweet spot against BD145 at least.
It'd also be good to see what the lower ones (mainly everything below 145 other than CH120 which can change) do against MF-H (Defense Wheel+CW) TH220/230RDF. Duo would be really nice (quite fond of that combo for it) but whatever you can, really.
Just noticing people complaining about it not being up/asking if flash isn't good because it's not there, so I'd like to get this sorted.
RE: Flash discussion. - Dark_Mousy - Mar. 19, 2012
(Mar. 19, 2012 4:55 PM)th!nk Wrote: Really really wanna get a range of tracks tested by a number of people. We know Flash is a top tier attack wheel but we can't put it up in the competitive combo's list until we know what tracks to put on there...
So yeah, anyone who can, tests of 105/W105/DF105 (LW too but I don't see it working quite as well), CH120, D125/T125, 130/S130/WA130, 135, H145 and GB145, whichever of those you can, would be much appreciated, all against the same opponent so we can figure out what's best. That's just my shortlist based on Brood's huge load of tests, that seems to be the sweet spot against BD145 at least.
It'd also be good to see what the lower ones (mainly everything below 145 other than CH120 which can change) do against MF-H (Defense Wheel+CW) TH220/230RDF. Duo would be really nice (quite fond of that combo for it) but whatever you can, really.
Just noticing people complaining about it not being up/asking if flash isn't good because it's not there, so I'd like to get this sorted.
OK when i get off work ill test H145, Ch120(Hasbro, that actually locks at 145 height.), GB145, D125. Ill test against Duo BD145 Cs. Or TH170. No RDF. Also i have RF/R2F/XF/WF. Any other tips?
RE: Flash discussion. - th!nk - Mar. 19, 2012
Just whatever, the main thing is the tracks, but yes, I'd also love to see WF and XF tested if you could, with whatever track you think works best :3 Seeing as MF works, I'm thinking WF might too, it's a little harder to control at times though so take your time with it.
Oh, and do it against BD145, duo th170cs isn't a great setup tbh, but you're welcome to try it
RE: Flash discussion. - Dark_Mousy - Mar. 19, 2012
(Mar. 19, 2012 5:25 PM)th!nk Wrote: Just whatever, the main thing is the tracks, but yes, I'd also love to see WF and XF tested if you could, with whatever track you think works best :3 Seeing as MF works, I'm thinking WF might too, it's a little harder to control at times though so take your time with it.
Oh, and do it against BD145, duo th170cs isn't a great setup tbh, but you're welcome to try it
Last night i did some testing with MF H Flash Sag. H145 RF. It worked very well for me. Also at this past weekends events i used MF H Flash Sag. H145 XF. It was kinda fun. From my testing Flash CH120 Xf didnt work to well.
RE: Flash discussion. - Dark_Mousy - Mar. 20, 2012
MF H Flash Sag. H145 R2F Vs MF H Duo Aquario BD145 CS
Flash 17 (KO)
Duo (3 OS)
Flash win rate 85%
All the wins for Duo were wall saves.
RE: Flash discussion. - xSora10 - Mar. 20, 2012
I think we may have found our new King of Attack! Thanks for the tests, Dark_Mousy!
RE: Flash discussion. - Dark_Mousy - Mar. 20, 2012
(Mar. 20, 2012 4:19 AM)Ryu-X Wrote: I think we may have found our new King of Attack! Thanks for the tests, Dark_Mousy!
Glad to help. I must say I love H145. Ill have more tests tomorrow after work. Im taking requests. Only thing i dont have is Metal Flat.
RE: Flash discussion. - Sayak Blader - Mar. 20, 2012
Looks like a must have bey.all great parts
RE: Flash discussion. - Janstarblast - Mar. 20, 2012
Thanks for the tests, Dark_Mousy.
The results were not surprising by any means, but certainly added to the hype Flash has already created!
Amazing is all I can say!
I may sound a bit greedy, but I want to see more tests, especially the ones requested by th!nk!
