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+--- Thread: The Canadian Metagame (/Thread-The-Canadian-Metagame)
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The Canadian Metagame - TehBrownSauce - May. 01, 2011
Eh? What's all this aboot then?
Okay, basically I am one of those people. The individuals who lurk around the customization forums looking for the best combo they can find and then proceed to use them in a tournament like its no one's business. These combos are usually quite good and provide a great deal of success to their users. Due to the general awesomeness of these combinations they also usually require little more than a bit of competence on the user's part to achieve a positive outcome.
In addition, the victims of these cheeky little buggers have not prepared for such encounters and do not have the parts to build an effective counter on the fly.
This is where I'd like to come in. Anyone who has seen me at a tournament recently knows my "Bey karma" hasn't exactly been great. I believe it's about time I did something for the community rather than constantly take from it. Within this thread I'd like to address some of the most prominent and powerful combos in the Canadian metagame (I am aware that metagame differs from region to region and not being a resident of any region but Canada would prevent me from commenting on it's metagame).
Okay, now that you've gotten through the wall of text that is this thread's intro, let's talk metagame.
Toppling Towers of Terror
These may very well be the combos for which I hold the most contempt. These are your 230-based combos. MF-H Basalt Horogium\Hell Kerbecs 230CS would be an example. Earth could also be used but with the appearance of Basalt it is often pushed aside. Unless your beyblade has a track height of 145 or greater and spins left, your chances of winning are dismal. Usage of this combo is not particularly high, nor is it particularly low and so having a combo to take it down should be a priority. MF Gravity Perseus AD145\CH145RF (left spin) and MF LLD CH145RF would be examples of attack types one could use. For those of you who like a safer option, 145-based stamina combos receive tolerable win rates. There is also the infamous "Lightning Tank (MF LLD BD145LRF)" that could be used to achieve great win rates. Speaking of which...
*I would put a clever title here but "Lightning Tank" already sounds cool*
This combo has not been out for a long time, but it has received a great amount of usage already. As the forum regarding this combo states: it is "The fall of the metagame *dun-dun-dunnn*". This means it often receives great win rates on the heavy hitters amongst the metagame. Even formerly reliable attack types like Gravity Perseus- based combos and LLD-based combos struggle against it. It does encounter a problem or two as no combo is perfect. On occasion it will lose to a LTSC... I know right? Crazy. From observation this problem usually comes from the user's own incompetence (I would know =( ) and is righted with practice. What does seem to be a hard counter to this monster comes in the form of the combo MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD which achieves relatively high win rates.*insert convenient segway here*
Super-Duper EDIT of Revelation:
Okay, so the Lightning Tank itself does not actually have an issue with MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD. Due to the almost perfect roundness of BD145, LT sometimes has trouble getting the KO. This combo requires practice to ascertain it's fullest potential and falls to Hell Kerbecs only because of the user's inability to shoot properly. When using the LT (and attack types in general) a good rule of thumb is this: when facing an opposing beyblade that is taller than yours, use a sliding shoot and when facing an opponent of lesser or equal height, use a banking shot instead. Constantly I have been able to KO LTSCs using this little rule. Thanks to Bluezee and Dan for this insight.
The Defending Hero
Pockyx3 has created a combo known as the "Defending Hero," a supposed counter the the Lightning Tank that has been tearing the former metagame to shreds. The combo is MF Gravity Perseus (Left-spin) AD145RS. Check out his thread for detailed results.
The "Top Tier" Beyblades
These consist of beyblades off your standard top tier list. MF Vulcan 85R2F, MF Earth\Basalt ______ GB145RS\CS blah, blah, etc. I'm sure you've got the point by now. Winning against these combos often fall into a "rock-paper-scissors" game. The look of dismay on people's faces when you pull out a combo they know they can't beat can be priceless and hilarious for the more cruel and cynical readers of this post but it can be a pain when you are the one stuck going "@!#$, why didn't I pick the other one!" An important rule of thumb to remember here is that attack types are scissors; defense types, rocks; and stamina types, sheets of paper. It is even more important to remember that if you decide to use an attack type capable of spinning left (...that you have practiced with and is at a reasonable height [120-145, there are exceptions]) the stainless steel blades on your "scissors" may as well have turned to diamonds as you now have the power to pulverize the rock that has haunted you for ages let alone that flimsy sheet of paper. =)
The Riff-Raff
There are combos that can be seen at tournaments that are utter garbage. While there is a certain degree of respect and honour for those who attempt to make their own combos, the results are not always... satisfying, to say the least. This does not mean that all of these combos are bad, however. The good combos have to come from somewhere, right? Indeed, the "riff-raff" should not be underestimated. I can't give truly useful advice when dealing with this plethora of what may seem to be random combinations. The only thing to be done, really, is to use something you have a substantial bit of practice with. You could use the "rock-paper-scissors" mentality, but that doesn't really help unless you happen to see your opponent's choice beforehand (which can be a pain under the effects of the "Stalling Clause"). Versatile beyblades like MF Gravity Perseus AD145\CH120RF would be good choices as they achieve relatively high win rates against any type of combination.
The Conclusion
This is all I have for now. Let me know if I've missed anything or something needs clarification or if I've just been wrong about something (in which case feel free to mock me to your heart's content). I hope I could be of use to a few Canadian bladers who have been a little alienated by the shift in the metagame. It's been a pleasure.
P.S.
I apologize to anyone from Canada who doesn't live in Toronto as the tourneys here are what I'm basing a lot of these remarks on. You guys probably already hate us a little for the "we are the center of the universe" mentality a lot of Torontonians have and I apologize in advance for my possible ignorance. If your metagame seems different from ours feel free to give me some info on it and I'll accommodate this thread as necessary.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - lord Wolfblade - May. 01, 2011
though i do like this thread, i want to say that i do not think that the "Lightning Tank" is anti-meta combo. according to this thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Types-of-Attack-Types (which is very accurate IMO)
in my own words Wrote:an anti-meta combo is a a defence wheel on a low track with RF, and it is not good VS defense but great VS attackthe "Lightning Tank" is not low height, does not use a defence wheel, and is good vs defence (and every thing else as well)
pesonally the "Lightning Tank" is a "metagame changer" as it has destroyed the current metagame and is/will (most likely) make a new one
(May. 01, 2011 4:58 AM)TehBrownSauce Wrote: I hope I could be of use to a few Canadian bladers who have been a little alienated by the shift in the metagame.
what exactly do you mean by this?
again i do like this thread
RE: The Canadian Metagame - TehBrownSauce - May. 01, 2011
^Um, the "Lightning Tank" has been referred to as an anti-meta combination by multiple people on the combo's thread. I just took their word for it. My concept of anti-meta is more or less the same as your's of a metagame changer, so I think the message remains clear. As for your second question, it just seemed like a big shift in the metagame to go from almost strictly attack-type dominated to something with a more defensive undertone with the introduction of 230 and Hell\BD145. I felt people may have had an issue dealing with that change and I tried to address that woe in this thread. Does that make a little more sense?
RE: The Canadian Metagame - Kei - May. 01, 2011
I'll comment more on this thread later, but I'll just re-iterate what lord Wolfblade said: MF Lightning L Drago BD145LRF (and its variants) is not anti-meta at all. It's basically an upgraded version of MF Lightning L Drago CH120RF.
In any case, it's nice to see you make an attempt at contributing on the forum, TehBrownSauce!
EDIT:
(May. 01, 2011 5:21 AM)TehBrownSauce Wrote: As for your second question, it just seemed like a big shift in the metagame to go from almost strictly attack-type dominated to something with a more defensive undertone with the introduction of 230 and Hell\BD145. I felt people may have had an issue dealing with that change and I tried to address that woe in this thread. Does that make a little more sense?
The Canadian metagame (not the "imaginary" metagame outside of tournaments, in the controlled home environments of every Blader) at tournaments was certainly not "attack-type dominated" before. Actually, as I'm sure you've noticed, the use of Attack-types has actually increased over the past little while.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - TehBrownSauce - May. 01, 2011
(May. 01, 2011 5:23 AM)Kei Wrote: I'll comment more on this thread later, but I'll just re-iterate what lord Wolfblade said: MF Lightning L Drago BD145LRF (and its variants) is not anti-meta at all. It's basically an upgraded version of MF Lightning L Drago CH120RF.
In any case, it's nice to see you make an attempt at contributing on the forum, TehBrownSauce!
Well, that just about settles it then. I'll have to make changes tomorrow, though. Seriously, I'm browsing a Beyblade forum at 12:30 in the morning... I need to reevaluate my life for a bit\sleep.
EDIT: ...On second thought, I can reevaluate my life some other time. Fixed.
EDIT:
(May. 01, 2011 5:21 AM)TehBrownSauce Wrote: As for your second question, it just seemed like a big shift in the metagame to go from almost strictly attack-type dominated to something with a more defensive undertone with the introduction of 230 and Hell\BD145. I felt people may have had an issue dealing with that change and I tried to address that woe in this thread. Does that make a little more sense?
The Canadian metagame (not the "imaginary" metagame outside of tournaments, in the controlled home environments of every Blader) at tournaments was certainly not "attack-type dominated" before. Actually, as I'm sure you've noticed, the use of Attack-types has actually increased over the past little while.
[/quote]
Sorry, maybe "attack-type dominated" is the wrong term to use. What I was trying to get at was that with a bit of competence and a fairly good attack custom or two (MF Pegasis 145RF =P) you could win tournaments with minimal amounts of trouble. With the introduction of RS, 230 and their slew of defense\stamina related comrades this philosophy failed to hold true (haha, as I learned the hard way). You are right though, I'll fix that.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - Dan - May. 01, 2011
Are we already using the TAANNNKKKK?
Everything else listed, I've seen. I'm so glad how it (Tank) turned out, certain Bluezee is as well.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - BladeStorm - May. 01, 2011
Thank you for this great insight into your metagame. Yesterday, in the Summer's Eve Showdown in London - I couldn't see any combos resembling the concept of MF-LLD BD145LRF in sight.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - TehBrownSauce - May. 01, 2011
Dan
Yeah, at the last Recruitment Session (#2), there were at least three people using THE TANK throughout the tournament. All of whom, might I add, made it to the semi-finals at the very least.
BladeStorm
Thank you for the rather pleasant compliment =) I'm quite surprised though. Was there anything particularly prominent at you last tournament?
RE: The Canadian Metagame - Floops - May. 01, 2011
Quality thread. There is ample information about the current Canadian Metagame. Good to know there is a counter to the "Lightning Tank".
RE: The Canadian Metagame - BladeStorm - May. 01, 2011
(May. 01, 2011 3:06 PM)TehBrownSauce Wrote: BladeStorm
Thank you for the rather pleasant compliment =) I'm quite surprised though. Was there anything particularly prominent at you last tournament?
230 in conjunction with Basalt went down in popularity due to TH220 taking its place as preference for some. MFvariant Basalt 220/230 WB/D/CS combos were prevalent though not as successful as in previous tournaments. Meteo 145variant Defence series bottom did well because of the good match-up against Basalt 230CS variants. Hell BD145Boost RF variants did generally well. Hell 145variant Defence series bottom were also seen and sucessfull. Combos with FS and HF/S seemed to do well. Finals stages consisted of Basalt's, Gravity's , Burn and Hell but no Lightning.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - Dan - May. 01, 2011
(May. 01, 2011 3:06 PM)TehBrownSauce Wrote: Dan
Yeah, at the last Recruitment Session (#2), there were at least three people using THE TANK throughout the tournament. All of whom, might I add, made it to the semi-finals at the very least.
BladeStorm
Thank you for the rather pleasant compliment =) I'm quite surprised though. Was there anything particularly prominent at you last tournament?
I didn't think it would spread so quickly. I really should have taken it out of my pocket in the first recruitment session.
I only know one proper counter to the tank, and I don't think either Bluezee or I are going to release it.. Most others a not consistent/don't actually work.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - TehBrownSauce - May. 01, 2011
BladeStorm
Wow. I'm genuinely surprised to see HF/S and FS be put to good use.
Dan
It does seem like something that would be difficult to find a hard counter to, but MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD really does do a great job in dealing with it. Personally, I faced the dreaded tank in a match and won using the aforementioned combo with little difficulty. Every match with a Tank against this counter resulted in a loss for the Tank (not that there were many of those as the Tank did quite well at Recruitment Session 2). In addition, FlameDragon25 stated that he had tested these two combos against each other to find the Tank achieving only a ~30% win rate. Thoughts?
RE: The Canadian Metagame - Electric - May. 01, 2011
I saw Kei used MF L Drago 100WF against Lightning Tank, and Lightning Tank didn't fare that well, so that can be used as a counter ? Anyway, great thread.
I bet Toppling Towers of Terror is used often, people just love 230-based combos.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - Dan - May. 01, 2011
I don't have a second BD145, but honestly, if I can KO Hell Kerbecs BD145WD consistently with Maximum Meteor, I don't think the LT would do badly at all.. How long have you all been using LT anyway? What, 1-2weeks maximum?
RE: The Canadian Metagame - Ultra - May. 01, 2011
MF Hell Kerbecs BD145(Boost Mode)RF is also very effective at taking down 230 combos.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - TehBrownSauce - May. 01, 2011
(May. 01, 2011 4:17 PM)Dan Wrote: I don't have a second BD145, but honestly, if I can KO Hell Kerbecs BD145WD consistently with Maximum Meteor, I don't think the LT would do badly at all.. How long have you all been using LT anyway? What, 1-2weeks maximum?
I see what you're getting at. This phenomenon could be just the product of a user's lack of practice. Most of the people at the tournament using it had not really played with the combo until the day of (myself included). That being said, they were still able to take out a large portion of their competition with minimal practice. I believe the fact that MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD did well under these conditions is still worth something. If I manage to get a second BD145 I'll test this. Personally, I haven't made a conclusive decision yet and so you may very well be right.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - BladeStorm - May. 01, 2011
(May. 01, 2011 4:05 PM)TehBrownSauce Wrote: BladeStorm
Wow. I'm genuinely surprised to see HF/S and FS be put to good use.
Yeah, me too; does anyone in Canada use those bottoms competetively?
RE: The Canadian Metagame - Dan - May. 01, 2011
God no. That list represents what we deal with, though I noticed a bit of out-of-box combinations.. (Toronto almost exclusively holds all of Canada's tournaments.)
I can't wait 'till the 15th, I'll get a chance to show you the Maximum Meteor and LT at their best. (Well, I don't have a working LRF, but I can easily do with R2F/RF) Better yet, Bluezee will be at Crusade so then you will see 'maximum power' of LT with LRF.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - TehBrownSauce - May. 02, 2011
(May. 01, 2011 6:27 PM)Dan Wrote: God no. That list represents what we deal with, though I noticed a bit of out-of-box combinations.. (Toronto almost exclusively holds all of Canada's tournaments.)
I can't wait 'till the 15th, I'll get a chance to show you the Maximum Meteor and LT at their best. (Well, I don't have a working LRF, but I can easily do with R2F/RF) Better yet, Bluezee will be at Crusade so then you will see 'maximum power' of LT with LRF.
*shivers* Hah, I have a hard enough time dealing with LT when people with hardly any experience use it and now I'll have to deal with someone not just competent with it, but an individual who is genuinely good? I don't like my chances =P
Seriously though, I can't wait, should be a lot of fun.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - BrawlLawl - May. 02, 2011
center of the earth? Ive never heard such things but i find your meta game observations absolutely right (if your in toronto or close by that is)
also Dan i am afraid of you and have no clue on how to defeat maximum meteor besides using maximum meteor should be fun anyways hope i don't get in Dans group or ill be out in 5 seconds =T
RE: The Canadian Metagame - Dan - May. 02, 2011
The trick to defeating the 'deadly dragon(s)' combinations shall remain with me, but hey, you could find out on the 15th? I'll just harden you guys up to LT, sound alright? As for Maximum, you'll see why I got such results. If LT becomes a popular choice in the upcoming tournaments, keep it on the list, but I'm thinkin' that if not, take it off.
Who dared to use an attack type (LT) at the second session?
RE: The Canadian Metagame - TehBrownSauce - May. 02, 2011
Well, I used LT as well as a few other attack combinations. I know Pockyx3 had one (but didn't use it apparently), my younger brother (ElJihado) used it and majinshadow113 (I think that was his name) are some of the people I remember off the top of my head. Each of those people (myself included) made it to semis and ElJihado managed to come in third place.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - BrawlLawl - May. 02, 2011
i used the dreaded Vulcan.... every time i pulled it out everyone cringed... it was amazing =) the power in one bey makes people shake and just that gives me an advantage
and dan.... ill see you there =P but still your probobly the biggest opponent there and definitley the one that practices the most so i dont know what to do with you =P but let me take second!
RE: The Canadian Metagame - Bluezee - May. 02, 2011
I really think you should remove the comment where the Lightning Tank has problems against MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD. It has NO issue killing that. I killed that ALL DAY today. It isn't hard to kill and saying it has a counter is rather misleading. Also, the reason why it has issue with low stamina, which I don't have an issue with, is mostly because BD145 is completely round to the most part so the protrusions have a hard time catching on to a wheel and causing a KO. A deep banking against LTSCs will most definitely kill them.
RE: The Canadian Metagame - TehBrownSauce - May. 02, 2011
(May. 02, 2011 3:38 AM)Bluezee Wrote: I really think you should remove the comment where the Lightning Tank has problems against MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD. It has NO issue killing that. I killed that ALL DAY today. It isn't hard to kill and saying it has a counter is rather misleading. Also, the reason why it has issue with low stamina, which I don't have an issue with, is mostly because BD145 is completely round to the most part so the protrusions have a hard time catching on to a wheel and causing a KO. A deep banking against LTSCs will most definitely kill them.
Yes, I apologize as I have only learned both of these things today. I'll fix those remarks soon. Would it be fair, however, to state that the proficiency of the Lightning Tank is substantially reliant on it's user's skill (or at least more so than most of the other combos on the list)?
BrawlLawl
Slightly off topic but, were you the guy in my block who used Vulcan and kept self KOing?