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+---- Thread: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 27/12/11 (/Thread-MFB-Tiers-list-Last-Updated-27-12-11)
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RE: MFB Tiers list - H8R - Mar. 05, 2011
alright if you wanted me to use earth sorry and yeah don't know why i said not anywhere near okay I shall do some tests soon
RE: MFB Tiers list - Ultra - Mar. 05, 2011
You didn't have to do earth. Any useful testing is nice.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Dan - Mar. 06, 2011
Am I to assume your going to keep Meteo above Vulcan still..?
RE: MFB Tiers list - lord Wolfblade - Mar. 06, 2011
(Mar. 06, 2011 3:30 PM)Dan Wrote: Am I to assume your going to keep Meteo above Vulcan still..?
from looking at the test vulcan should not be above meteo, but meteo should not be above vulcan either.
really they are about the same
RE: MFB Tiers list - Ultra - Mar. 06, 2011
For the moment yes since although Vulcan may have more attack power as shown by the greater amount of KO's
Meteo still did better which shows that it is the better one to use which is the point of this list.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Dan - Mar. 06, 2011
Of course it did better than Vulcan against RS; it is left-spinning.
What I said with those uncustomized Hell tests is that it cannot even OS Hell Kerbecs.
Would you like me to put it up against a proper defense type? (CS)
RE: MFB Tiers list - lord Wolfblade - Mar. 06, 2011
(Mar. 06, 2011 3:49 PM)Dan Wrote: Of course it did better than Vulcan against RS; it is left-spinning.
thats the point we(I) have been trying to make! vulcan does bad vs RS but meteo does better as it is left spin
anyways R145 should be tier 1 track for attack and you should say next to r145 that it does best with gravity for attack
RE: MFB Tiers list - Dan - Mar. 06, 2011
But the point I try to make is that it doesn't do well everywhere else. Excluding RS.
RE: MFB Tiers list - lord Wolfblade - Mar. 06, 2011
(Mar. 06, 2011 4:02 PM)Dan Wrote: But the point I try to make is that it doesn't do well everywhere else. Excluding RS.
what do you mean?
RE: MFB Tiers list - Dan - Mar. 06, 2011
I mean that Vulcan>Meteo overall, though Meteo>Vulcan against RS..
Here:
MF Meteo LDrago 100RF vs. MF-H Earth Bull 100CS
MF Meteo LDrago 100RF win rate: 0/10
MF-H Earth Bull 100CS win rate: 10/10
Meteo win percent: 0%
MF Vulcan Horuseus 85RF vs. MF-H Earth Bull 100CS
MF Vulcan Horuseus 85RF win rate: 4/10
MF-H Earth Bull 100CS win rate: 6/10
Vulcan win percent: 40%
Meteo's well-known weakness is LTD/SC's. I believe we had a video from Fyuuor about that. I'll be adding more matches.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Ultra - Mar. 06, 2011
I think he means that it doesn't do as well against other defence bottoms as it does against RS. Could you do more testing against 145 height defence? With one combo using RS and the ohter using either CS or RSF.
RE: MFB Tiers list - lord Wolfblade - Mar. 06, 2011
that is expected as meteo is weak vs low height, try vs 145 heights
(Mar. 06, 2011 4:32 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: I think he means that it doesn't do as well against other defence bottoms as it does against RS. Anyway if that is the case then can someone (preferably Dan) do some testing with the same combos but with CS or RSf instead of RS on the defence combos.
to bad RSF does worse vs left spin then RS
i quote
Quote:As the results indicate RSF performed slightly worse then RS though both bottoms struggled against a left spin combination but RSF in particular.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Dan - Mar. 06, 2011
(Mar. 06, 2011 4:34 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: that is expected as meteo is weak vs low height, try vs 145 heights
Thats like me saying to use anything but RS against Vulcan. The weakness is still there.
If you point out Vulcan's, its only fair I do the same for Meteo.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Ultra - Mar. 06, 2011
Yeah but Vulcan's weakness matters a lot more than Meteo's considering that RS is the most used defence bottom since it's the best and the large majority don't really use low defence combos.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Dan - Mar. 06, 2011
Azlan's tests say there is a ten percent difference with RS on the board, okay it does a little better but in everything else it does worse.. Meteo's Weaknesses>Vulcan's.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Ultra - Mar. 06, 2011
Have you got any tests to prove that? I'm not saying I don't believe you I would just like some proof. Other people's tests would also be fine.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Dan - Mar. 06, 2011
I can give you:
All defense tests with CS except GB145.
Its already obvious from tests put up earlier: MLD cannot outspin CS and it doesn't have enough KO power either..
RE: MFB Tiers list - Ultra - Mar. 06, 2011
But that was when it was against a LTSC which Meteo is weak against so it doesn't really show much about how it performs against CS in general. If you don't have GB145 then can you test Meteo L Drago 100RF against MF-H Earth Bull BD145CS then and the same with the Vulcan combo too?
RE: MFB Tiers list - Dan - Mar. 06, 2011
Yeah sure. But looking over its weakness is idiotic no? Is that not like ignoring the fact that Vulcan doesn't do well against RS..? Even though LTDC's are less prominent, they are still there.
Edit: Oh my god SO many draws with no decisive winner.. What to do?
RE: MFB Tiers list - Shabalabadoo - Mar. 06, 2011
Yeah, I think attack types tests need to be against low,[x]145, and 230 height defense. And against another attack.
Vulcan doesn't do so hawt against low track defense...Or 230.
I'm actually leaning back to Pegasis nowadays, I sorta lost hope there.
It can beat multiple(if not all) heights.
I think the combo Mf-H Lightning l drago h145/r145 should really be considered to be tested for top tier. It does great against all heights, and is heavier than most attack types, so it can outspin them too(assuming there is no KO.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Dan - Mar. 06, 2011
Pegasis has the same problem Vulcan does: RS. On top of that, Vulcan has more smash than Pegasis so..
RE: MFB Tiers list - Ultra - Mar. 06, 2011
I'm not ignoring the weakness but if you're comparing how Vulcan and Meteo do then comparing it to a combo that one of them do bad against really doesn't show much. Anyway so you can do the testing.
@SSJfisherman As much as I like Pegasis it does much better against WB defence than Rubber defence combos. Also can you do some testing on those combos?
RE: MFB Tiers list - H8R - Mar. 06, 2011
people when we talk about attack we mean if the metal wheel can knock out the other bey.
Though meteo shows a better win rate against RS doesn't mean it's better than vulcan in attack. Meteo wins as everyone has said because it's left spin and it performs better with spin steal it has no attack what so ever and vulcan has LOTS of smash I am saying it once and for all vulcan is better than both meteo and gravity!
RE: MFB Tiers list - Shabalabadoo - Mar. 06, 2011
I think the consideration of "which one is best" should be based on this:
Attack combo vs 85, [x]145, and 230 defense, and against other top tier attack. And each of those against the three rubber defense bottoms(lots of tests here). Then just simply get an average win % for each and go from there.
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Ah, I did not know that, I only have wb right now.
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I wish I could help with these tests, but like I just wrote, I only have wb, my lightning is broken, and I don't have gb145/ r145. But I do have Vulcan and Pegasis.
I could do some tests with them, but only with what I have. So anything you would want?
RE: MFB Tiers list - Ultra - Mar. 06, 2011
Look back at what i've said. I know that Vulcan has better attack. But if it gets a better win rate then it's better option which is the whole point of this thread if you hadn't noticed... Also maybe Vulcan has better attack than gravity but it is more versatile being able to go in both spin directions and work effectively on multiple heights.