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+---- Thread: A Look at GT’s Defense Types (/Thread-A-Look-at-GT%E2%80%99s-Defense-Types)
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A Look at GT’s Defense Types - CheetoBlader - Aug. 11, 2022
After some discussion with fellow bladers, I got thinking. How strong is defense in the GT format? And what’s the best defense type? I will be covering my thoughts and opinions in this thread, backing them up with tests. Feel free to add your own opinions and tests here.
Each test will be done with:
- A B-33 Stadium
- A single person (me)
- Two DB launchers equipped with power gears
- Tips being cleared of any dust/dirt every round
Drift Testing:
Master Diabolos2 00Expand Drift (soft launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
Results (Click to View)
Master Win Rate: 30% (2 KOs, 1 OS)
Master’s few wins were due to some mess ups in my launch of Judgement, minus the second KO, which was a valid one. Master Drift is not a valid answer to Judgement in my eyes.
Tact Fafnir 00Expand Drift Sen (soft launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
Results (Click to View)
Tact Win Rate: 30% (2 KOs, 1 OS)
Tact’s wins felt valid and not by user error, I think Tact Drift edges out Master Drift as a Judgement answer, but I don’t recommend it.
Dread Diabolos 00Expand Drift (soft launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
Results (Click to View)
Dread Win Rate: 70% (4 KOs, 2 OSes, 1 Burst)
Dread is something I’ve been toying with myself, and I love it. It’s just as bulky as Tact, while not being limiting with what GT weight it has. It can tank Judgement’s hits really well, and often return them. It doesn’t self burst like you’d think it would either. It does need to be a pretty perfect launch or else it enters the Drift spiral of death, and becomes an easy target for Judgement. Definitely the best Judgement answer on Drift. I will return in another thread to test Dread’s opposite spin performance.
Keep’ Testing:
Master Diabolos2 00Expand Keep’ (soft-mid launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
Tact Fafnir 00Expand Keep’ Sen (soft-mid launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
[b]Dread Diabolos 00Expand Keep’ (soft-mid launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)[/b]
Testing stopped during Master Keep’ due to launcher breakage. Will finish those tests soon.
So far, Dread is my favorite anti-Judgement defensive option. Worth noting here that my Judgement was very used, and was the really cool looking pink and white one from the random layer collection.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - th!nk - Aug. 11, 2022
This is quite surprising. I kinda struggle vs tact longinus 00wall drift Goku with Judgment, with Tact being able to burst judgment on almost every setup uncomfortably often. Looks like I'm getting Dread out again 😅
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - kai edits - Aug. 11, 2022
I think judgement with good chip combinations could be amazing
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - CheetoBlader - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 1:03 AM)th!nk Wrote: This is quite surprising. I kinda struggle vs tact longinus 00wall drift Goku with Judgment, with Tact being able to burst judgment on almost every setup uncomfortably often. Looks like I'm getting Dread out again 😅That’s interesting. I’ll try putting Diabolos on Judgement and putting Goku on Tact and see if that changes anything. I don’t particularly like Judgement Diabolos as much as Judgement Goku though.
My main reason for using Tact Sen was because it was the exact same combo that Broyeeto used in his winning GT format deck from a recent event.
(Aug. 11, 2022 1:06 AM)kai edits Wrote: I think judgement with good chip combinations could be amazingJudgement with a good chip is amazing, we’ve known this for 3 years aha.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - (Blank) - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 12:26 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: After some discussion with fellow bladers, I got thinking. How strong is defense in the GT format? And what’s the best defense type? I will be covering my thoughts and opinions in this thread, backing them up with tests. Feel free to add your own opinions and tests here.I'm amazed that Dread is the best anti-Judgement, I'm glad it finally gets the recognition it deserves. Is it possible to replace 00Expand with Sting? Also noticed that all the combos are left spin, are there any right spin combos? I was thinking maybe Poison? Considering how wide and circular shaped it is.
Each test will be done with:
In this post, I will be testing Master, Tact, and Dread on Keep’ and Drift, and seeing how they fare against Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku.
- A B-33 Stadium
- A single person (me)
- Two DB launchers equipped with power gears
- Tips being cleared of any dust/dirt every round
Drift Testing:
Master Diabolos2 00Expand Drift (soft launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
Judgement Win Rate: 70% (7 KOs)Results (Click to View)
Master Win Rate: 30% (2 KOs, 1 OS)
Master’s few wins were due to some mess ups in my launch of Judgement, minus the second KO, which was a valid one. Master Drift is not a valid answer to Judgement in my eyes.
Tact Fafnir 00Expand Drift Sen (soft launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
Judgement Win Rate: 70% (6 KOs, 1 OS)Results (Click to View)
Tact Win Rate: 30% (2 KOs, 1 OS)
Tact’s wins felt valid and not by user error, I think Tact Drift edges out Master Drift as a Judgement answer, but I don’t recommend it.
Dread Diabolos 00Expand Drift (soft launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
Judgement Win Rate: 30% (3 KOs)Results (Click to View)
Dread Win Rate: 70% (4 KOs, 2 OSes, 1 Burst)
Dread is something I’ve been toying with myself, and I love it. It’s just as bulky as Tact, while not being limiting with what GT weight it has. It can tank Judgement’s hits really well, and often return them. It doesn’t self burst like you’d think it would either. It does need to be a pretty perfect launch or else it enters the Drift spiral of death, and becomes an easy target for Judgement. Definitely the best Judgement answer on Drift. I will return in another thread to test Dread’s opposite spin performance.
Keep’ Testing:
Master Diabolos2 00Expand Keep’ (soft-mid launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
Tact Fafnir 00Expand Keep’ Sen (soft-mid launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
[b]Dread Diabolos 00Expand Keep’ (soft-mid launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)[/b]
Testing stopped during Master Keep’ due to launcher breakage. Will finish those tests soon.
So far, Dread is my favorite anti-Judgement defensive option. Worth noting here that my Judgement was very used, and was the really cool looking pink and white one from the random layer collection.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - kai edits - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 2:02 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote:I am not good with beyblade meta hahahaha(Aug. 11, 2022 1:03 AM)th!nk Wrote: This is quite surprising. I kinda struggle vs tact longinus 00wall drift Goku with Judgment, with Tact being able to burst judgment on almost every setup uncomfortably often. Looks like I'm getting Dread out again 😅That’s interesting. I’ll try putting Diabolos on Judgement and putting Goku on Tact and see if that changes anything. I don’t particularly like Judgement Diabolos as much as Judgement Goku though.
My main reason for using Tact Sen was because it was the exact same combo that Broyeeto used in his winning GT format deck from a recent event.
(Aug. 11, 2022 1:06 AM)kai edits Wrote: I think judgement with good chip combinations could be amazingJudgement with a good chip is amazing, we’ve known this for 3 years aha.
So I forgot what’s top tier in the gt era
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - CheetoBlader - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 2:29 AM)(Blank) Wrote: I'm amazed that Dread is the best anti-Judgement, I'm glad it finally gets the recognition it deserves. Is it possible to replace 00Expand with Sting? Also noticed that all the combos are left spin, are there any right spin combos? I was thinking maybe Poison? Considering how wide and circular shaped it is.I don’t own Poison but from what I’ve heard it would create too might self recoil with all the rubber on it and end up KOed. Left spin beys tend to be better at lowering recoil damage from Judgement and are less burst prone.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - kai edits - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 3:07 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote:In my opinion poison is a risky part cause of the recoil(Aug. 11, 2022 2:29 AM)(Blank) Wrote: I'm amazed that Dread is the best anti-Judgement, I'm glad it finally gets the recognition it deserves. Is it possible to replace 00Expand with Sting? Also noticed that all the combos are left spin, are there any right spin combos? I was thinking maybe Poison? Considering how wide and circular shaped it is.I don’t own Poison but from what I’ve heard it would create too might self recoil with all the rubber on it and end up KOed. Left spin beys tend to be better at lowering recoil damage from Judgement and are less burst prone.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - th!nk - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 3:07 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote:(Aug. 11, 2022 2:29 AM)(Blank) Wrote: I'm amazed that Dread is the best anti-Judgement, I'm glad it finally gets the recognition it deserves. Is it possible to replace 00Expand with Sting? Also noticed that all the combos are left spin, are there any right spin combos? I was thinking maybe Poison? Considering how wide and circular shaped it is.I don’t own Poison but from what I’ve heard it would create too might self recoil with all the rubber on it and end up KOed. Left spin beys tend to be better at lowering recoil damage from Judgement and are less burst prone.
Yeah poison has those big squares which make it kind of a mess.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - TheRogueBlader - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 3:07 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote:There’s also Zwei to think about. For me though, drift doesn’t do well in same spin defense. Finding an all around TANK I think should be what we’re going for in this thread.(Aug. 11, 2022 2:29 AM)(Blank) Wrote: I'm amazed that Dread is the best anti-Judgement, I'm glad it finally gets the recognition it deserves. Is it possible to replace 00Expand with Sting? Also noticed that all the combos are left spin, are there any right spin combos? I was thinking maybe Poison? Considering how wide and circular shaped it is.I don’t own Poison but from what I’ve heard it would create too might self recoil with all the rubber on it and end up KOed. Left spin beys tend to be better at lowering recoil damage from Judgement and are less burst prone.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - BladerGem - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 2:29 AM)(Blank) Wrote:(Aug. 11, 2022 12:26 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: After some discussion with fellow bladers, I got thinking. How strong is defense in the GT format? And what’s the best defense type? I will be covering my thoughts and opinions in this thread, backing them up with tests. Feel free to add your own opinions and tests here.I'm amazed that Dread is the best anti-Judgement, I'm glad it finally gets the recognition it deserves. Is it possible to replace 00Expand with Sting? Also noticed that all the combos are left spin, are there any right spin combos? I was thinking maybe Poison? Considering how wide and circular shaped it is.
Each test will be done with:
In this post, I will be testing Master, Tact, and Dread on Keep’ and Drift, and seeing how they fare against Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku.
- A B-33 Stadium
- A single person (me)
- Two DB launchers equipped with power gears
- Tips being cleared of any dust/dirt every round
Drift Testing:
Master Diabolos2 00Expand Drift (soft launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
Judgement Win Rate: 70% (7 KOs)Results (Click to View)
Master Win Rate: 30% (2 KOs, 1 OS)
Master’s few wins were due to some mess ups in my launch of Judgement, minus the second KO, which was a valid one. Master Drift is not a valid answer to Judgement in my eyes.
Tact Fafnir 00Expand Drift Sen (soft launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
Judgement Win Rate: 70% (6 KOs, 1 OS)Results (Click to View)
Tact Win Rate: 30% (2 KOs, 1 OS)
Tact’s wins felt valid and not by user error, I think Tact Drift edges out Master Drift as a Judgement answer, but I don’t recommend it.
Dread Diabolos 00Expand Drift (soft launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
Judgement Win Rate: 30% (3 KOs)Results (Click to View)
Dread Win Rate: 70% (4 KOs, 2 OSes, 1 Burst)
Dread is something I’ve been toying with myself, and I love it. It’s just as bulky as Tact, while not being limiting with what GT weight it has. It can tank Judgement’s hits really well, and often return them. It doesn’t self burst like you’d think it would either. It does need to be a pretty perfect launch or else it enters the Drift spiral of death, and becomes an easy target for Judgement. Definitely the best Judgement answer on Drift. I will return in another thread to test Dread’s opposite spin performance.
Keep’ Testing:
Master Diabolos2 00Expand Keep’ (soft-mid launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
Tact Fafnir 00Expand Keep’ Sen (soft-mid launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
[b]Dread Diabolos 00Expand Keep’ (soft-mid launched, first) vs Judgement Pegasus Blitz Quick’ Goku (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)[/b]
Testing stopped during Master Keep’ due to launcher breakage. Will finish those tests soon.
So far, Dread is my favorite anti-Judgement defensive option. Worth noting here that my Judgement was very used, and was the really cool looking pink and white one from the random layer collection.
Dread's definitely a sleeper hit; I'll have to see if I can find the exact combo somewhere, but I remember getting my first tournament win with Dread in my deck!
Edit: The combo was Dread Spriggan 10Proof Octa, unfortunately I can't seem to find the weight. Might've been Gen, might've been something else. I also remember experimenting a lot with it on Keep', although I don't think I ever got to use it in a tournament setting.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - CheetoBlader - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 4:04 AM)TheRogueBlader Wrote:This thread isn’t for “LET’S FIND THE GOD TIER DEFENSE TYPE” it’s for testing and discussing and defense types in the format and what each one excels at. Currently I’m testing the Judgement defenses, and then will move to Zwei.(Aug. 11, 2022 3:07 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: I don’t own Poison but from what I’ve heard it would create too might self recoil with all the rubber on it and end up KOed. Left spin beys tend to be better at lowering recoil damage from Judgement and are less burst prone.There’s also Zwei to think about. For me though, drift doesn’t do well in same spin defense. Finding an all around TANK I think should be what we’re going for in this thread.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - th!nk - Aug. 11, 2022
Gave Dread a go. I'll need to set aside time to do proper testing but I found it much easier to handle than Tact with both using Goku. It was, however, way better than I remembered. It's nice to see yet another layer be viable in this format, great work.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - TheRogueBlader - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 4:16 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote:I know, but I’m saying that it’s improbable to know wether someone will use Zwei or judgement as their attack type. So finding a all around good defense type, that isn’t dependent on being opposite spin with drift, would be a more versatile option. I’m not saying that we need to find the best defense type ever, and yes I agree it would also be smart to find defenses against each layer separately also.(Aug. 11, 2022 4:04 AM)TheRogueBlader Wrote: There’s also Zwei to think about. For me though, drift doesn’t do well in same spin defense. Finding an all around TANK I think should be what we’re going for in this thread.This thread isn’t for “LET’S FIND THE GOD TIER DEFENSE TYPE” it’s for testing and discussing and defense types in the format and what each one excels at. Currently I’m testing the Judgement defenses, and then will move to Zwei.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - CheetoBlader - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 6:15 PM)TheRogueBlader Wrote:(Aug. 11, 2022 4:16 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: This thread isn’t for “LET’S FIND THE GOD TIER DEFENSE TYPE” it’s for testing and discussing and defense types in the format and what each one excels at. Currently I’m testing the Judgement defenses, and then will move to Zwei.I know, but I’m saying that it’s improbable to know wether someone will use Zwei or judgement as their attack type. So finding a all around good defense type, that isn’t dependent on being opposite spin with drift, would be a more versatile option. I’m not saying that we need to find the best defense type ever, and yes I agree it would also be smart to find defenses against each layer separately also.
If you play defense, you’re probably gonna be playing in deck format, so you can play two defense types if you want or just commit to one. It’s all about making a reasonable choice.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - TheRogueBlader - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 6:25 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote:Exactly, so the most versatile thing (in my opinion) would be not a specific judgement or Zwei defense, but defense to both. Or maybe anti-attack but that’s not the focus of this thread. But yes it’s all about a reasonable choice.(Aug. 11, 2022 6:15 PM)TheRogueBlader Wrote: I know, but I’m saying that it’s improbable to know wether someone will use Zwei or judgement as their attack type. So finding a all around good defense type, that isn’t dependent on being opposite spin with drift, would be a more versatile option. I’m not saying that we need to find the best defense type ever, and yes I agree it would also be smart to find defenses against each layer separately also.
If you play defense, you’re probably gonna be playing in deck format, so you can play two defense types if you want or just commit to one. It’s all about making a reasonable choice.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - CheetoBlader - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 6:30 PM)TheRogueBlader Wrote:The thing is, there really isn’t one. Judgement counters die to Zwei, Zwei counters die to Judgement. There isn’t something that can do both.(Aug. 11, 2022 6:25 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote: If you play defense, you’re probably gonna be playing in deck format, so you can play two defense types if you want or just commit to one. It’s all about making a reasonable choice.Exactly, so the most versatile thing (in my opinion) would be not a specific judgement or Zwei defense, but defense to both. Or maybe anti-attack but that’s not the focus of this thread. But yes it’s all about a reasonable choice.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - TheRogueBlader - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 6:43 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote:That’s true, but shouldn’t we find out if there is something that can do both? I do agree with your point though, especially since defense usually needs to be opposite spin to lessen recoil and then against the other spin attacker it’ll die. But that’s using drift which, at least for me, always dies in same spin. I’ve found some use with Master Longinus convert (unbalanced mode) Octa as a defense type though I can’t say it’s good against Zwei because my Zwei’s slopes don’t align with the driver properly and it bounces.(Aug. 11, 2022 6:30 PM)TheRogueBlader Wrote: Exactly, so the most versatile thing (in my opinion) would be not a specific judgement or Zwei defense, but defense to both. Or maybe anti-attack but that’s not the focus of this thread. But yes it’s all about a reasonable choice.The thing is, there really isn’t one. Judgement counters die to Zwei, Zwei counters die to Judgement. There isn’t something that can do both.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - CheetoBlader - Aug. 11, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 6:53 PM)TheRogueBlader Wrote:I just told you there is nothing that can do both. I can try testing your… interesting combo, but I do think Judgement will slap it.(Aug. 11, 2022 6:43 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote: The thing is, there really isn’t one. Judgement counters die to Zwei, Zwei counters die to Judgement. There isn’t something that can do both.That’s true, but shouldn’t we find out if there is something that can do both? I do agree with your point though, especially since defense usually needs to be opposite spin to lessen recoil and then against the other spin attacker it’ll die. But that’s using drift which, at least for me, always dies in same spin. I’ve found some use with Master Longinus convert (unbalanced mode) Octa as a defense type though I can’t say it’s good against Zwei because my Zwei’s slopes don’t align with the driver properly and it bounces.
After talking to th!nk, we found that we had very different results with Tact vs. Judgement. His Tact build uses the Goku layer weight, which adds extra weight, as well as the Wall frame. I only have one Goku so I slapped Diabolos1 on it. This may make it mildly more burst prone, but should still work roughly the same. Excited to try out th!nk’s build.
Tact Fafnir 00Wall Drift Goku (soft-mid launched, first) vs Judgement Diabolos Blitz Quick’ (hard launched, sliding shoot, second)
Results (Click to View)
Tact Win Rate: 40% (5 KOs, 2 OSes, 1 Burst)
Tact definitely benefitted from the Goku weight, but I’m still not sure how I feel about it. The results fit well with one of my statements on Tact during my early unrecorded testings of it where it really depends on the skill of the Judgement user.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - (Blank) - Aug. 12, 2022
(Aug. 11, 2022 6:43 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote:Unless... if it's possible, we use a dual spin? How is Master on right viewed, it would be interesting if it has good enough defense to tank hits from Zwei. It's possible that using a dual spin as the reasonable defense type since it can go both ways, since I remember cheeto saying left spins have lower recoil against Judgement, should I assume right spins are the same with Zwei? I personally don't have Zwei, but I think it would be interesting, to say the least, to test right spin Master against it since I haven't seen or heard any viability about it.(Aug. 11, 2022 6:30 PM)TheRogueBlader Wrote: Exactly, so the most versatile thing (in my opinion) would be not a specific judgement or Zwei defense, but defense to both. Or maybe anti-attack but that’s not the focus of this thread. But yes it’s all about a reasonable choice.The thing is, there really isn’t one. Judgement counters die to Zwei, Zwei counters die to Judgement. There isn’t something that can do both.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - CheetoBlader - Aug. 12, 2022
(Aug. 12, 2022 4:45 AM)(Blank) Wrote:(Aug. 11, 2022 6:43 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote: The thing is, there really isn’t one. Judgement counters die to Zwei, Zwei counters die to Judgement. There isn’t something that can do both.Unless... if it's possible, we use a dual spin? How is Master on right viewed, it would be interesting if it has good enough defense to tank hits from Zwei. It's possible that using a dual spin as the reasonable defense type since it can go both ways, since I remember cheeto saying left spins have lower recoil against Judgement, should I assume right spins are the same with Zwei? I personally don't have Zwei, but I think it would be interesting, to say the least, to test right spin Master against it since I haven't seen or heard any viability about it.
It wouldn’t matter because you can’t change spin direction in a match, so you’d always have to make a decision.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - GreenK9148 - Aug. 12, 2022
Can you test atomic/atomic dash and/or Universe in same spin defense?
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - CheetoBlader - Aug. 13, 2022
(Aug. 12, 2022 5:24 PM)GreenK9148 Wrote: Can you test atomic/atomic dash and/or Universe in same spin defense?
Any certain layers? I’m not quite sure how well any layer would fair in same spin.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - GreenK9148 - Aug. 14, 2022
(Aug. 13, 2022 5:57 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote:(Aug. 12, 2022 5:24 PM)GreenK9148 Wrote: Can you test atomic/atomic dash and/or Universe in same spin defense?
Any certain layers? I’m not quite sure how well any layer would fair in same spin.
Possibly Lord or dread with the gen weight.
RE: A Look at GT’s Defense Types - CheetoBlader - Aug. 14, 2022
(Aug. 14, 2022 1:19 AM)GreenK9148 Wrote:Lord against Judgement or Zwei?(Aug. 13, 2022 5:57 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote: Any certain layers? I’m not quite sure how well any layer would fair in same spin.
Possibly Lord or dread with the gen weight.