• One player has more points than the other: The player with more points wins the match.
  

• The score is tied: The match continues as normal until a player scores a point (sudden death rounds).
  

• During the match, if the judge calls 3 consecutive draws, both decks will advance to the next bey in sequence or be reshuffled for the next bey in sequence.  This will continue until a winner is decided, and this applies to the sudden death rounds after 10 round battle limit. 
  

(Sep. 07, 2021  1:17 AM)Shindog Wrote: Would very much like to hear people thoughts on my preferred method to deal with consecutive draws that can occur in some Beyblade formats.  I am considering running this in my burst standard event in 1 week.


3V3 Deck Type (1st stage only):

Each Blader assembles 3 Beyblades with no repeating parts in secret. A deck box with spots numbered 1 through 3 will be used to store the 3 Beyblade.  Each blader uses the deck box to determine the play order of their 3 Beyblade.  The judge inspects all 3 Beyblade for both players in secret.  

The match then begins using the first Beyblade from each Blader's deck box. When one of the Beyblades wins the battle, the next Beyblade in each Bladers’ lineup will be used for the following battle. 

If all 3 beys of the Bladers are used in a match, and neither Blader has yet scored enough points to win the match, then the Bladers will turn around and in secret take 30 seconds to (optionally) reorder their 3 beys in the deck box how they see fit.  This process is called the “reshuffle.”

Play resumes using the first bey in each Blader's deck, moving on to the second or third as necessary until one of the Bladers scores the points necessary to win the match.

The finals of 3v3 Deck Type events are played using WBO Deck Format.

3v3 Deck type solution for consecutive draws:

First stage 3v3 type matches have a battle limit of ten battles. If a tenth battle is reached and:

• One player has more points than the other: The player with more points wins the match.
  

• The score is tied: The match continues as normal until a player scores a point (sudden death rounds).
  

• During the match, if the judge calls 3 consecutive draws, both decks will advance to the next bey in sequence or be reshuffled for the next bey in sequence.  This will continue until a winner is decided, and this applies to the sudden death rounds after 10 round battle limit. 
  

Here is why this is in my mind the ideal solution for our current issue with 1st stage:

1) Strategic (combo order and reshuffling will new strategic elements for the WBO).  The strategy for 1st stage may change, but I don’t think it would be any less strategic. 

2) Drawn out ties/draws can be solved by “next bey” and battle limit strategy simply, within the flow of the game.  There isn’t a need for players to take the time to go make a new combo to potentially stop drawing. There is a chance both players come back with more LAD combos anyway, and they can continue to draw.  That would be burning more time. 

3) Less need to ban parts?  Powerful parts like drift/bearing is only a portion of the deck.  I think of it as the Queen in chess wouldn’t need a ban, even though it is a very powerful piece. 

4) Unfair scouting has less effect, as long as the ordering of the deck is kept secret

(Sep. 07, 2021  1:31 AM)USN Wrote:

(Sep. 07, 2021  1:17 AM)Shindog Wrote: Would very much like to hear people thoughts on my preferred method to deal with consecutive draws that can occur in some Beyblade formats.  I am considering running this in my burst standard event in 1 week.


3V3 Deck Type (1st stage only):

Each Blader assembles 3 Beyblades with no repeating parts in secret. A deck box with spots numbered 1 through 3 will be used to store the 3 Beyblade.  Each blader uses the deck box to determine the play order of their 3 Beyblade.  The judge inspects all 3 Beyblade for both players in secret.  

The match then begins using the first Beyblade from each Blader's deck box. When one of the Beyblades wins the battle, the next Beyblade in each Bladers’ lineup will be used for the following battle. 

If all 3 beys of the Bladers are used in a match, and neither Blader has yet scored enough points to win the match, then the Bladers will turn around and in secret take 30 seconds to (optionally) reorder their 3 beys in the deck box how they see fit.  This process is called the “reshuffle.”

Play resumes using the first bey in each Blader's deck, moving on to the second or third as necessary until one of the Bladers scores the points necessary to win the match.

The finals of 3v3 Deck Type events are played using WBO Deck Format.

3v3 Deck type solution for consecutive draws:

First stage 3v3 type matches have a battle limit of ten battles. If a tenth battle is reached and:

• One player has more points than the other: The player with more points wins the match.
  

• The score is tied: The match continues as normal until a player scores a point (sudden death rounds).
  

• During the match, if the judge calls 3 consecutive draws, both decks will advance to the next bey in sequence or be reshuffled for the next bey in sequence.  This will continue until a winner is decided, and this applies to the sudden death rounds after 10 round battle limit. 
  

Here is why this is in my mind the ideal solution for our current issue with 1st stage:

1) Strategic (combo order and reshuffling will new strategic elements for the WBO).  The strategy for 1st stage may change, but I don’t think it would be any less strategic. 

2) Drawn out ties/draws can be solved by “next bey” and battle limit strategy simply, within the flow of the game.  There isn’t a need for players to take the time to go make a new combo to potentially stop drawing. There is a chance both players come back with more LAD combos anyway, and they can continue to draw.  That would be burning more time. 

3) Less need to ban parts?  Powerful parts like drift/bearing is only a portion of the deck.  I think of it as the Queen in chess wouldn’t need a ban, even though it is a very powerful piece. 

4) Unfair scouting has less effect, as long as the ordering of the deck is kept secret

I would 100% be ready for a new format like this. Let's get this going quick as possible!

(Sep. 07, 2021  1:54 AM)TheRogueBlader Wrote:

(Sep. 07, 2021  1:31 AM)USN Wrote: I would 100% be ready for a new format like this. Let's get this going quick as possible!

I’ll tell you how the tournament with this format goes after the 12th! Should be interesting since this is a pretty unique way of playing

(Sep. 07, 2021  5:03 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: I want to say yes, though it comes with a question: What do we do if someone wants to use 1 or 2 beys instead of 3?

Like, I've seen someone go from the first stage to the finals and take 2nd using the same singular bey down in Kentucky, and looking at their parts on-hand they really didn't have much else to work with if thye wanted to be competitive there. That guy would be screwed by this format without borrowing parts. Is there a way around this stopgap, or must they ask for help to get their full 3 combos?

(Sep. 07, 2021  1:17 AM)Shindog Wrote: Would very much like to hear people thoughts on my preferred method to deal with consecutive draws that can occur in some Beyblade formats.  I am considering running this in my burst standard event in 1 week.


3V3 Deck Type (1st stage only):

Each Blader assembles 3 Beyblades with no repeating parts in secret. A deck box with spots numbered 1 through 3 will be used to store the 3 Beyblade.  Each blader uses the deck box to determine the play order of their 3 Beyblade.  The judge inspects all 3 Beyblade for both players in secret.  

The match then begins using the first Beyblade from each Blader's deck box. When one of the Beyblades wins the battle, the next Beyblade in each Bladers’ lineup will be used for the following battle. 

If all 3 beys of the Bladers are used in a match, and neither Blader has yet scored enough points to win the match, then the Bladers will turn around and in secret take 30 seconds to (optionally) reorder their 3 beys in the deck box how they see fit.  This process is called the “reshuffle.”

Play resumes using the first bey in each Blader's deck, moving on to the second or third as necessary until one of the Bladers scores the points necessary to win the match.

The finals of 3v3 Deck Type events are played using WBO Deck Format.

3v3 Deck type solution for consecutive draws:

First stage 3v3 type matches have a battle limit of ten battles. If a tenth battle is reached and:

• One player has more points than the other: The player with more points wins the match.
  

• The score is tied: The match continues as normal until a player scores a point (sudden death rounds).
  

• During the match, if the judge calls 3 consecutive draws, both decks will advance to the next bey in sequence or be reshuffled for the next bey in sequence.  This will continue until a winner is decided, and this applies to the sudden death rounds after 10 round battle limit. 
  

Here is why this is in my mind the ideal solution for our current issue with 1st stage:

1) Strategic (combo order and reshuffling will new strategic elements for the WBO).  The strategy for 1st stage may change, but I don’t think it would be any less strategic. 

2) Drawn out ties/draws can be solved by “next bey” and battle limit strategy simply, within the flow of the game.  There isn’t a need for players to take the time to go make a new combo to potentially stop drawing. There is a chance both players come back with more LAD combos anyway, and they can continue to draw.  That can be quite inefficient.  

3) Less need to ban parts?  Powerful apex alpha parts like drift/bearing are only a portion of the deck.  I think of it as the Queen in chess wouldn’t need a ban, even though it is a very powerful piece. 

4) Unfair scouting has less effect, as long as the ordering of the deck is kept secret

(Sep. 07, 2021  5:09 AM)Shindog Wrote:

(Sep. 07, 2021  5:03 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: I want to say yes, though it comes with a question: What do we do if someone wants to use 1 or 2 beys instead of 3?

Like, I've seen someone go from the first stage to the finals and take 2nd using the same singular bey down in Kentucky, and looking at their parts on-hand they really didn't have much else to work with if thye wanted to be competitive there. That guy would be screwed by this format without borrowing parts. Is there a way around this stopgap, or must they ask for help to get their full 3 combos?

They would need to borrow to make a deck of 3, but this can only really work as a deck of three beys. 

However, this isn’t meant to be the only format in 1st stage.  This is meant to give organizers a choice.  Organizers can decide what is best for their community and what suits their own hosting capabilities best.

(Sep. 07, 2021  1:17 AM)Shindog Wrote: 3) Less need to ban parts?  Powerful apex alpha parts like drift/bearing are only a portion of the deck.  I think of it as the Queen in chess wouldn’t need a ban, even though it is a very powerful piece. 

(Sep. 07, 2021  2:09 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: The newer bladers who have less than 3 beys are already incredibly disadvantaged; they cannot make it through Deck Format finals successfully. If a blader has One good combo and two less good combos, they will be defeated in deck format somewhat easily. I'm thinking of my third tournament where one opponent had Balkesh B3 on 0 Atomic and basically no other noteworthy combos. I was able to use Hell Salamander against them all and that was that.

This format doesn't work if they don't have 3 beys. They can either borrow or use the beys they have. Most have at least 3 beys. If they borrow, they won't know those beys all that well and might not do well in deck format, but they might stand a decent chance in first stage.

(Sep. 07, 2021  8:13 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote:

(Sep. 07, 2021  1:17 AM)Shindog Wrote: 3) Less need to ban parts?  Powerful apex alpha parts like drift/bearing are only a portion of the deck.  I think of it as the Queen in chess wouldn’t need a ban, even though it is a very powerful piece. 

This is a pretty bad reason from a game balance and design standpoint. We shouldn't allow OP parts just you can only have 1. That's just bad game balance. Having 1 bey of a deck be more powerful than other simply because of having stronger parts is bad game design.

I admit the idea does loosen the effectiveness of OP parts and makes the format feel less polarizing, but we shouldn't shy away from striking down parts that are too powerful just because the rules force them to be used less.

---

As for the rest of the proposal, I'm a bit confused regarding First Stage 3v3. After winner is declared in the round using each blader's first bey, both move to use their second, and then third. That makes sense. But how can "If all 3 beys of the Bladers are used in a match, and neither Blader has yet scored enough points to win the match" occur if you don't move to the next bey until a winner is declared? You haven't described how many points are needed to win the match or if the match is won if you win 2 rounds or something like that. There's no "win condition" described.

(Sep. 07, 2021  9:27 AM)th!nk Wrote: So while this seems like it is a nice, smooth way to work, and is better than one deck for the whole tournament (which in initially misread it as and got a lil heated about), and I do kinda like deck building, but there are still some minor issues.

While perhaps not unbearably so, it still discourages more adventurous combinations that may need say your Giga or Over to work, slightly (eg roar bahamut giga/over quattro-2 is a great counter to left spin br combos, but then you won't have giga or over on later combos). It's fairly minor but something I feel like I will always criticise no shared parts rules for (perhaps BC I am plastic man and I think it's mostly agreed upon that nsp is deleterious to pla combo variety in multiple ways - basically you never get to use cool and broadly effective stuff like force smash because your wide defense is critical elsewhere, bearings are not clarified etc, separate issue tho).


More importantly though we're still asking people to have 3 full competitive combos to not be fairly severely disadvantaged (maybe 2 but still) That means 3 different competitive layers, 3 different competitive discs, 3 different competitive drivers, all of which have to make 3 competitive combos. Idk about your scenes but back when I hosted we had plenty of attendees with only one or two beys. What do they do? I feel like it puts too much economic onus on competitors and times are kinda tough at the moment.

Love the draw resolution idea though, that is excellent and common sense while still allowing enough breathing room as well as encouraging getting the first round right. It's probably worth the trade-offs but I still worry about how we are disadvantaging less well off bladers, including the younger kids the game is marketed towards.

(Sep. 07, 2021  2:23 PM)Zektor Wrote:

(Sep. 07, 2021  2:09 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: The newer bladers who have less than 3 beys are already incredibly disadvantaged; they cannot make it through Deck Format finals successfully. If a blader has One good combo and two less good combos, they will be defeated in deck format somewhat easily. I'm thinking of my third tournament where one opponent had Balkesh B3 on 0 Atomic and basically no other noteworthy combos. I was able to use Hell Salamander against them all and that was that.

This format doesn't work if they don't have 3 beys. They can either borrow or use the beys they have. Most have at least 3 beys. If they borrow, they won't know those beys all that well and might not do well in deck format, but they might stand a decent chance in first stage.

I agree. I think for a new format it is good. But for new players the knowlage barrier/cost to entry is much higher.

(Sep. 07, 2021  3:02 PM)We TheRogueBlader Wrote: I just want to add something. I love the idea of this format, but I don’t think it should completely replace the standard first stage format. I think both formats should be used especially since 3v3 is very similiar to deck, so it’s kinda like playing a different kind of deck in both stages. It’s cool and a great idea, I just think the standard first stage should be used just as much as this in the first stage

(Sep. 07, 2021  5:15 PM)Friedpasta Wrote: I think that this could be very beneficial, since the problem of double blind is that you just pick a random combo, which can easily lead to a meta of just pick the wrong spin direction and you lose. it also brings in a solution to the common problem in the current meta of just a bunch of ties between 2 equalizers, leading to absurdly long matches that hold up the whole tournament. that also leads to my only concern with this, being that it’ll make the matches significantly longer, making burst standard tournaments even longer than they already are.

(Sep. 07, 2021  8:42 PM)LJ-Blader Wrote: At DeceasedCrab’s Tournament we finished faster then at my Tournament and DeceasedCrab’s was 3v3.