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+--- Thread: Where is this game going? (/Thread-Where-is-this-game-going)
RE: Where is this game going? - Kai-V - Jan. 02, 2012
Sure.
Although, take in consideration that I think that such a format could not fit in our current Beypoint System because of the considerable difference of game difficulty, and that our programmer seems quite busy, so perhaps that by the time he would actually succeed in making a second Beypoint System for that new format, perhaps the game would have already become balanced on its own. Who knows.
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Jan. 02, 2012
I kinda agree with the second beypoint system.
Mixing them would mess up everything a bit.
RE: Where is this game going? - Hazel - Jan. 02, 2012
Well, one of the problems with taking a trip back in time, is that we know things now people didn't back then - try and recall how long it took people to realize Lightning was great, and that Quetz was overrated, and so forth. Going back to pre-maximum would probably result in a meta skewed in favor of Attack, which, if anything, would make that one a bit harder than the current one, which is stabilizing back at the old Attack > Stamina > Defense > Attack pattern.
Just some food for thought about it. I still think it'd be fun and healthy, but there are still considerations!
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Jan. 02, 2012
I don't know, attack would be dominating, but still I have few consideration on how would it be good:
° skill would be rewarded well
° the amount of usable parts would be quite high and that's good.
RE: Where is this game going? - Hazel - Jan. 02, 2012
Yeah, I don't really count attack being a solid option as a negative factor, since it does require so much practice and so forth - especially since RS would be legal, creativity would need to also be present. It is just a shame Metal Flat wouldn't be around, haha.
I've always liked the kind of combos that worked well back then, though, and the overall viability of many things, so I'm a total backer of the idea.
RE: Where is this game going? - Shabalabadoo - Jan. 02, 2012
You know what I just realized? At this moment in time, if you don't own certain parts/collection is not current, it's really hard to understand what does well and what doesn't. Back in the day (which was like, only a year ago, haha) it was really easy to understand. In fact, I didn't even have an Attack Stadium during my most active and understanding time here! Now, even with th!nk explaining it to me, it still all goes right over my head! I don't know the deal with RDF, RB, Scythe, and quite a bit more. How Death and Duo affect the game I don't know.
It's pretty much the reason I haven't been posting much competitive beyblade stuff recently. It's also my fault though, I've been spending quite a bit of money on other stuff and I don't have a job (Right $300 Turtle Beach?).
I don't know if anyone else notices this or if this is a good thing to you, but to me I don't really enjoy having no clue what's going on. I liked the simple, yet enjoyable and diverse game from before. I can understand that someone that goes to tournaments would enjoy this, assuming they felt the same way.
RE: Where is this game going? - Hov - Jan. 02, 2012
I am still lost on this second format the second format °_°?. Can someone explain it to me in a much simpler way please? Thanks. And I agree with Labadoo, the game was more balanced a year ago and no, it's like new releases and put top tier parts on it and it already becomes one less than a second. The game deserves to be broken down and much more balance. I still vouch for BD145 to be banned anyday.
RE: Where is this game going? - Hazel - Jan. 02, 2012
If we create a second format, it will be limited in a way such as to prevent the use of parts that were released during and after the Maximum Series(ie: Hell, BD145, Screw, Metal Flat, Basalt, etc.), allowing for a metagame that is, essentially, a trip back in time - to a time that many users here preferred, before all the weight-based shenanigans started.
This format would not use the same Beyrank/Beypoint list as the current one, as it has different skills involved, and would need its own to be programmed. This format would also, of course, be optional.
RE: Where is this game going? - Raigeko13 - Jan. 02, 2012
BD145 being banned would turn the metagame inside out, backwards, and 47 degrees counterclockwise, than what it already is.
RE: Where is this game going? - th!nk - Jan. 02, 2012
The big discussion re: the second format was deciding where to cut the line: Do we include things such as MF, EWD, UW145, Screw, all of the clear wheels, EDS, DS, W2D, SWD. F: D, F: S, D: D,? I mean, for the most varied, useful metagame, I'd like to see at least things like screw capricorn legalised, but horogium being the most accessible cw to make it useful. There was even debate about lightning.
Libra is obviously the most contentious one. But again, I made all of my stance on this very clear when we were discussing it.
All of this has been said in the topics about it, though, and if we want to discuss it, I'd think we should revive those.
RE: Where is this game going? - Hov - Jan. 02, 2012
Oh!!! I support! Thanks Hazel! That would definitely calm the game for sure. Lightning would so dominate 2nd format meta lol. Thanks again Hazel.
RE: Where is this game going? - th!nk - Jan. 02, 2012
Oh, yeah, the ranking system was the other contentious issue, because we could end up having four ranking systems: one for plastics, one for HMS (if there are enough tournaments and parts to justify it), and one for each separate MFB format. Then there'd need too be working out which to display on profiles but yeah.
@J o n: if lightning dominated too much, and nothing evolved to beat it, it would be removed.
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Jan. 02, 2012
(Jan. 02, 2012 7:25 AM)th!nk Wrote: The big discussion re: the second format was deciding where to cut the line: Do we include things such as MF, EWD, UW145, Screw, all of the clear wheels, EDS, DS, W2D, SWD. F: D, F: S, D: D,? I mean, for the most varied, useful metagame, I'd like to see at least things like screw capricorn legalised, but horogium being the most accessible cw to make it useful. There was even debate about lightning.
Here's how i would solve this problem:
step 1: include every part that we're not sure to include.
step 2: see if there is something that is game breaking with testing and events
step 3: say goodbye to a part if it shows too much potential.
step 4: enjoy a cool metagame created by players.
step 5: go to step 2
RE: Where is this game going? - Janstarblast - Jan. 02, 2012
Kai-V- I still don't really understand the need of a new BeyPoint System...
The combos battling will face combos of equal caliber.
The problem is, in today's game there are lions battling horses.
With two different formats in place, lions battle lions and horses battle horses.
They seem to face an opponent who has equal amount of strength.
If there is some other reason, please forgive me, and also tell me what reasons follow.
About my previous posts in this thread, I think I over-hyped our 'broken' meta-game.
Looks like it was an adrenaline rush...
But I still emphasize on the point I made before...
If newer wheels were to be released having equal strength as the existing top tier ones, it would just bring a balance in the current parts. What's lost is lost already, actually. I do agree that TT should have added much variation in their releases, as a long chain of Defense/Stamina wheel releases certainly wrecked havoc.
Afterthought(Not quite important)-
Spoiler (Click to View)
RE: Where is this game going? - th!nk - Jan. 02, 2012
Different games get different systems. The open format would require access to the latest parts, whereas the restricted format would be more skill/combo based.
I made some notes about the second format thing, seeing as there appears to be some support for it. Once I flesh it out properly, I will revive the second format thread, and all discussion of it should move there
Might take a little though, got a couple things I want to write today, and other things to do!
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Jan. 02, 2012
@ janstar blast: the double bp systm would be there cause you know, you my be an excellent lion trainer but failing with horses or vice versa, it would be unfair not to reward people with specific abilities.
also, quoting kai-v for the tier vs skill thread:
(Dec. 30, 2011 5:41 PM)Kai-V Wrote:(Dec. 30, 2011 5:32 PM)Spin-Sonic Wrote: You are right. That was basically just it. Not to mention this is basically just another skill vs. tier thread as said in the very beginning yet the other one got closed and this one is falling into the same problem: Redundancy.
So you apparently do not read all of the posts at all, especially the one just above yours and these :
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Where-is-this-game-going?pid=864490&highlight=skill#pid864490
I think i'll write things down, take a closer look at them and finally send the pm to kai-v.
RE: Where is this game going? - Janstarblast - Jan. 02, 2012
Ah, so that's how.
About the Tier Vs. Skill thread, I just think that it could have been kept out of this thread, because after I went through the OP a few times, I realized this seems to be about the Tier in general, basing the Skill level at 'average or slightly above'.
Not to mention that there were excellent posts which showed the importance of Skill.
I just believe this was supposed to be a only-Tier related thread.
But of course, its what I thought of quite suddenly. I always held the discussion in this thread at a high regard, but just suddenly, I was forced to believe that this is a Tier-only thread.
I may be 101% wrong though.
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Jan. 02, 2012
I kinda see what you mean now, well this thread went crazy, we managed to do a tier vs skill discussion as well hahah.
the original reason for it getting opened was basicly discussing on how TT isproducing game and how fast is the evolution of things going.
then we got into this "even if releases are overpowered you can beat your opponent with old parts and the necessary amount of skill" so it went like tier vs skill,
and after that the discussion moved into the second format.
Well, it seems it did pretty good, hahah.
RE: Where is this game going? - Janstarblast - Jan. 03, 2012
Well yes, that's what I meant! XD
There was almost every imaginable type of discussion here, and the transition phase between them comprised of the most awesome posts in this Forum.
Quote:"even if releases are overpowered you can beat your opponent with old parts and the necessary amount of skill"This.
I think this certainly changed the thread's purpose.
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Jan. 05, 2012
Yeah, you're right.
anyway, i was thinking: should I allow the 4d bottoms when making the new format?
cause they're ifferent from everything we saw before 4d beyblades.
RE: Where is this game going? - Arupaeo - Jan. 05, 2012
As virtually none of the 4D bottoms had a game impact in the current metagame, I would be interested in seeing them on Pre-Maximum wheels. But perhaps introduced on a significant delay (like 6 months post release) to allow for more broad distribution. Or even wait for the sad future day when Beyblade goes on hiatus...
RE: Where is this game going? - Shabalabadoo - Jan. 05, 2012
Hmmm, when we get to that point, it doesn't seem like an "Old Format" any more. It's sounding like it's becoming a "Ban a ton of parts". I think it'd be best if there was no exceptions, a certain release is the deadline. Otherwise I don't think that deserves another format?
RE: Where is this game going? - Arupaeo - Jan. 05, 2012
I'm not in favor of another format right now anyway.
But as far as the future is concerned, I think it's open for discussion and that you have a valid point of view.
RE: Where is this game going? - Janstarblast - Jan. 06, 2012
(Jan. 05, 2012 4:53 PM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: Hmmm, when we get to that point, it doesn't seem like an "Old Format" any more. It's sounding like it's becoming a "Ban a ton of parts". I think it'd be best if there was no exceptions, a certain release is the deadline. Otherwise I don't think that deserves another format?
Your point is completely valid as Arupaeo said.
In a way, we can call it an "old format", as most dominating parts are released just recently.
The inclusion of 4D bottoms in that format would contradict the belief of it being an "old format", but yeah. As it is no one's gonna use them anyway... The thing is, where would parts like Beat, Fang, etc go... Even the placing of Basalt is controversial; as it would dominate in the Second Format, and be outclassed in the existing one...
Probably a division similar to that of Rookies and Amateurs...
The distribution of parts in two different formats would require a lot of research, and it would never be perfect.
I support the second format, but I am sitting on a see-saw. Any weighty point from the opposition(who oppose the second format) would incline me to believe, and support them instead.
I think simple restrictions imposed by tourney organizers would do the job quite well... We had Basalt restricted in our tourney. But we had VariAres...
RE: Where is this game going? - BakushinLeone - Feb. 12, 2012
I think, what should happen is have two different competitions. Like they do with plastics and metal wheels.
Plastics,
Metal Wheels,
4D Beys.
That way, there will be a fore of needing to only slightly better our previous parts.