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+---- Thread: Vari Ares Discussion (/Thread-Vari-Ares-Discussion)
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - Serotonin - Aug. 09, 2011
MF Vari Ares H145MF (Right Spin) vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB
MF Vari Ares H145MF: 10 Wins (7 KOs, 3 OSs)
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB: 10 Wins (5 KOs, 5 OSs)
MF Vari Ares H145MF Win Percentage: 50%
It's interesting that I got the exact same amount of KOs with this and MF Vari Ares R145RF; the only difference was that this outspinned Basalt 3 times. I think this is clearly down to MF more than H145. I was actually really surprised by those 3 results to be honest, because not only have I rarely seen anything in the same spin direction as MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB outspinning it, but also because I thought that Vari Ares was particularly bad with regards to Stamina (it's easy to see why when you look at its shape).
I also forgot to mention what spin direction I was using, so I've added that in to both of my posts now.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - H8R - Aug. 09, 2011
how about MF variares R145MF.... R145 is clearly superior more weight and recoil!
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - Dan - Aug. 09, 2011
So, the plastic idea of OHKO still holds true, huh? (Metal tip)
I'd really like to see how it (R145RF and H145MF) does against CS rather than MB!
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - BeybladeStation - Aug. 09, 2011
Ya, but we had to see something against MB. By the way, did you get your VariAres yet? Mine is fine
Thanks Heart for the tests. Do you mind trying Left-Spin?
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - Dan - Aug. 09, 2011
Not yet, Oki has been extremely busy. I don't want to annoy him about it lol.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - Shabalabadoo - Aug. 09, 2011
(Aug. 09, 2011 8:10 PM)♥ Wrote: Well, just to support some of the testing Kei did:
MF Vari Ares R145RF (Right Spin) vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB
Standard Procedure
MF Vari Ares R145RF: 7 Wins (7 KO)
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB: 13 Wins (5 KO, 8 OS)
Vari Ares R145RF Win Percentage: 35%
Okay, so I didn't manage to hit the same heights as Kei did, but I also wanted to put my weight behind Vari Ares being a pretty potent Smash Wheel.
What I noticed was that you need to launch quite strongly to get any significant Smash against Basalt. However, you also have to consider the limitations of RF and self-KOs too, not to mention the recoil Vari Ares has. I think, given its versatility in other customisations/modes, this is a pretty good part.
Because of what I bolded, could you do the same test, but switch R145 with GB145? GB145 will help with the speed, so I'm wondering if that might make a difference, even though there's some smash being taken away by removing R145.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - BeybladeStation - Aug. 10, 2011
Thanks for agreeing, I've been suggest GB145 since the day I got it.
GB145, though, might not completely balance it during more change...
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - Serotonin - Aug. 10, 2011
(Aug. 09, 2011 8:10 PM)♥ Wrote: MF VariAres R145RF (Right Spin) vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB
Standard Procedure
MF VariAres R145RF: 7 Wins (7 KO)
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB: 13 Wins (5 KO, 8 OS)
VariAres R145RF Win Percentage: 35%
MF VariAres R145RF (Left Spin) vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB (Weak Launch)
Standard Procedure
MF VariAres R145RF: 1 Win (1 KO)
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB: 9 Wins (4 KO, 5 OS)
VariAres R145RF (Left Spin) Win Percentage: 10%
Okay, this was a pretty terrible idea, haha.
MF VariAres R145MF (Right Spin) vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB
Standard Procedure
MF VariAres R145MF: 10 Wins (3 KO, 7 OS)
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB: 1 Wins (7 KO, 3 OS)
VariAres R145MF (Right Spin) Win Percentage: 50%
MF VariAres R145MF (Left Spin) vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB (Weak Launch)
Standard Procedure
MF VariAres R145MF: 0 Wins
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB: 10 Wins (4 KO, 6 OS)
VariAres R145MF (Left Spin) Win Percentage: 0%
Okay, I realise that I've done 20 rounds for Right Spin but only 10 for Left Spin in both cases, but I think when you look at the results, you can see any more testing isn't necessary. Left Spin pales in comparison to its Right Spin counterpart each time.
Some thoughts:
RF vs MF: While MF doesn't provide the same raw power as RF, even though one can launch a lot harder with MF, it does provide a larger window of opportunity for KOs, and a potential for outspin. As with Gravity, I think VariAres' dual-spin capabilities will mean that MF is a more versatile choice than RF; however, I think it's down to how you play, really.
Right Spin vs Left Spin: I have two theories as to why Right Spin is superior to Left Spin for VariAres, certainly against MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB. Firstly, if you look at the way a Left Spin Beyblade moves in comparison to a Right Spin one, you can see that the collisions rarely occur head-on: instead, their movement patterns only seem to "rub" off each other, if that makes any sense. You can easily see this by launching two Beyblades in opposite spin directions. Secondly, when you look at the shape of VariAres and its internal mechanism, you can see that in Right Spin, even with the yellow parts extended, the contact points can be exposed in collision as they can be pushed back in in Right Spin. In Left Spin, the yellow parts can't be pushed in in the same way to expose those contact points.
Obviously, these are just thoughts extrapolated from my own testing and could of course be completely wrong, but I suppose it's food for thought.
I will test GB145 a bit later. :]
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - Shabalabadoo - Aug. 10, 2011
(Aug. 10, 2011 4:12 PM)♥ Wrote: Right Spin vs Left Spin: I have two theories as to why Right Spin is superior to Left Spin for VariAres, certainly against MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB. Firstly, if you look at the way a Left Spin Beyblade moves in comparison to a Right Spin one, you can see that the collisions rarely occur head-on: instead, their movement patterns only seem to "rub" off each other, if that makes any sense. You can easily see this by launching two Beyblades in opposite spin directions.
I don't have VarAres, but I do notice this with other left spin beyblades vs right spin.
I think of it like two cars...crashing.
-If they're going towards each other(representing same spin directions), the impact is big.
-If one starts 5 feet ahead and they go the same direction(representing right vs left spin), then the impact at the moment they hit isn't going to be as big as the impact when they were facing each other.
I hope that makes sense.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - Ga' - Aug. 10, 2011
Would the results be more beneficial or detrimental on MF if there was no Metal Face? Most likely detrimental, but the Metal Face could just be slowing down and decreasing the MF's stamina.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - BeybladeStation - Aug. 10, 2011
I do have VariAres.
I've realised that theory against Stamina Combos, though. I was testing against Burn... and it turns out I was getting far much beter results on the Right-Spin. I think Heart's brushing off thought is partially correct. I say this because when first shot, they could easily be impossible. The gaps in VariAres are able to grasp any protrusions of any Metal Wheel, therefor making it substansiaal for VariAres to do what it does best : Kill It.
Please do test GB145, Heart. I want to but I won't have a BB-10 for a while. I could do some quick jot-down tests and stuff. I will.
(Aug. 10, 2011 5:03 PM)GaHooleone Wrote: Would the results be more beneficial or detrimental on MF if there was no Metal Face? Most likely detrimental, but the Metal Face could just be slowing down and decreasing the MF's stamina.Neither.
This is because we need something to prevent VariAres to just SELF-KO. It oes that quite often. When I use my VariAres, I'm afraid of breaking it...
By the way, do you own one. This is probably the first time I own these Beys so early.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - Serotonin - Aug. 10, 2011
(Aug. 10, 2011 4:57 PM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: I don't have VarAres, but I do notice this with other left spin beyblades vs right spin.
I think of it like two cars...crashing.
-If they're going towards each other(representing same spin directions), the impact is big.
-If one starts 5 feet ahead and they go the same direction(representing right vs left spin), then the impact at the moment they hit isn't going to be as big as the impact when they were facing each other.
I hope that makes sense.
Yeah, this is it. I'm glad you agreed, since as I said before, this should be pretty plain to see for anyone who's ever used a Left Spin Beyblade against a Right Spin one, but it's just really difficult to put into words, haha!
However, with regards to MF, I think considering how much recoil is actually being produced, MF is negligible in terms of nullifying it. I'd really like to fully test the effects of MF with/without one day, because I'm not completely convinced it does anything significant at such high recoil levels. I suppose, it's a precautionary measure, but Kei did actually touch upon his results being better without MF ...
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - ControL_ - Aug. 10, 2011
@ <3
When weak launching with MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB VariAres on left struggles incredibly to KO. That's why I do not use VariAres on left.
Also <3 here were my results for:
Standard procedures.
MF VariAres R145R2F (R2F is in utter prime, RIGHT) v MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB (MB can touch TR)
VariAres wins 15 (all KO)
Basalt wins 5 (3 KO 2 OS)
VariAres win percentage: 75%
As MB is relatively aggressive anyway, I did not need to do a sliding shoot, a regular shot onto the TR still made contact with Basalt. The speed it circled around the TR caught up with Basalt, making a KO.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
AGAIN with MB at 75% power so it is an aggressive SF.
MF VariAres R145R2F (same R2F, RIGHT) v MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB (aggressive SF movements)
VariAres wins 11 (11 KO)
Basalt wins 9 (4 KO 5 OS)
VariAres win percentage: 55%
Partial sliding shoot was done, purposefully not in a perfect flower pattern, so that speed was not lost.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
LEFT SPIN V WEAK LAUNCH
MF VariAres R145LRF (LRF is near mint, LEFT) v MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB (weak launch, MB is stationary)
VariAres won 4 (all KO)
Basalt won 16 (1 KO, 15 OS)
VariAres win percentage: 20%
Sliding shoot was done fully at 100% power with VariAres on left. Basalt was given a weak launch, as weak as possible without losing via OS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also important:
Say both beyblades are stationary. Right v Right WILL provide more collision than Left v Right. This is common sense. The images show clearly (taken from the Energy Transfer thread, credit to Nocto for the images only).
Spoiler (Click to View)
The second image creates a lot more collision as the spinning objects crash into eachother. The object on the left wants to push force downwards, the other wants to push upwards.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Left spin proves advantageous as the above posts has already pointed out. It's like two cars crashing head on, if they are beys, the rotational velocity collision acts as a lesser factor, where the surface speed creates collision.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT:
Quote from <3:
Quote:Firstly, if you look at the way a Left Spin Beyblade moves in comparison to a Right Spin one, you can see that the collisions rarely occur head-on: instead, their movement patterns only seem to "rub" off each other, if that makes any sense.The rubbing off between the Left v Right is heavily due to the diagram explanation above. Your theories are bang on here, all of these added together is why I do not use VariAres in left. Especially with the explosion of weak shooting everywhere.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - BeybladeStation - Aug. 10, 2011
Makes sense, ControL_
I wish I was acknowledged
Anyways, when I shoot my VariAres PRIME R2F, against Earth Right Spin, I see exactly on what Nocto's exsplanation says. The rotational velocity collision acts as a lesser factor, where the surface speed creates collision. I see VariAres extreme force to just give up spin easuily in Left-Spin, this being because the rotation velocity collision is a small factor, and compared to what the ratio of users is who probably use Basalt in what power is high, we can see VariAres being used quite effectively against Stamina Types as well.
Hopefully I can help you ControL_, I will try getting GB145 tested today. My VariAres needs action.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - ControL_ - Aug. 10, 2011
(Aug. 10, 2011 6:01 PM)BeyBladestation Wrote: Makes sense, ControL_Nocto didn't explain that, which is why I dislike his thread. A lot of information is missing, I filled in for that.
I wish I was acknowledged
Anyways, when I shoot my VariAres PRIME R2F, against Earth Right Spin, I see exactly on what Nocto's exsplanation says. the rotational velocity collision acts as a lesser factor, where the surface speed creates collision.
However, even if you put a WD/RS on VariAres to face Earth Right spin, the collision is still quite large! This shows that rotational velocity still doesn't stay quiet as a factor.
@BBS The second half of your post (the edited section) doesn't make a lot of sense.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - BeybladeStation - Aug. 10, 2011
I tried MF-H VariAres 100CS as an LTDC, I wasn't expecting much.
What was so significant was Earth's ability to come over VariAres. I was hoping CS's DEF-STM Hybrid use would work, as a Stamina Type.
But such speed would require Right-Spin, so I did try that. What I saw was constant contact between both, and a hope to kill the other. The collision in both these was quite hard as Left-Spin, but as Fyuuor once introduced Earth's ability, I knew that once again reverse rotational velocity could not conquer of what surface speed could, the thrive to kill one another.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - ControL_ - Aug. 10, 2011
(Aug. 10, 2011 6:15 PM)BeyBladestation Wrote: I tried MF-H VariAres 100CS as an LTDC, I wasn't expecting much.You tried OSing Earth? It definitely wouldn't work in left spin, and on right spin, Earth's low collision and better weight distribution would easily take the OS.
What was so significant was Earth's ability to come over VariAres. I was hoping CS's DEF-STM Hybrid use would work, as a Stamina Type.
But such speed would require Right-Spin, so I did try that. What I saw was constant contact between both, and a hope to kill the other. The collision in both these was quite hard as Left-Spin, but as Fyuuor once introduced Earth's ability, I knew that once again reverse rotational velocity could not conquer of what surface speed could, the thrive to kill one another.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - BeybladeStation - Aug. 10, 2011
Yes, that is what I was saying.
I forgot to mention the real point was actually trying to KO Earth in Right Spin before the Mode Switch...
Looking at it on a better angle, I think even GB145 won't equalise the imbalance on VariAres. If we so significant velocity on a full shot, and a hit occurs, it's still going down. I don't want BD145 tried either, I was thinking H145...
That might be too much recoil, though.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - ControL_ - Aug. 10, 2011
(Aug. 10, 2011 6:28 PM)BeyBladestation Wrote: Yes, that is what I was saying.What exactly are you trying to achieve?
I forgot to mention the real point was actually trying to KO Earth in Right Spin before the Mode Switch...
Looking at it on a better angle, I think even GB145 won't equalise the imbalance on VariAres. If we so significant velocity on a full shot, and a hit occurs, it's still going down. I don't want BD145 tried either, I was thinking H145...
That might be too much recoil, though.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - BeybladeStation - Aug. 10, 2011
KO on Earth with Defensive CS.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - ControL_ - Aug. 10, 2011
Why does that matter at all?
VariAres can definitely KO Earth with a defensive CS, just pair it up with R145RF. If you're testing the collision through rotational velocity alone, there's no point, if it does or not, it doesn't compare with other results.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - pepsikola - Aug. 11, 2011
(Aug. 10, 2011 6:28 PM)BeyBladestation Wrote: Yes, that is what I was saying.
I forgot to mention the real point was actually trying to KO Earth in Right Spin before the Mode Switch...
Looking at it on a better angle, I think even GB145 won't equalise the imbalance on VariAres. If we so significant velocity on a full shot, and a hit occurs, it's still going down. I don't want BD145 tried either, I was thinking H145...
That might be too much recoil, though.
Lol didn't I try to tell you this a page ago? And BD145 was already tested. As for H145 I think a lot of people had high hopes for that, then <3 did the tests... Though R145 is still more prominent. I guess I'm really confused on what you want to be tested...
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - BeybladeStation - Aug. 11, 2011
(Aug. 10, 2011 10:08 PM)ControL_ Wrote: Why does that matter at all?It was just to see if an LTDC approah would work, I guess not.
VariAres can definitely KO Earth with a defensive CS, just pair it up with R145RF. If you're testing the collision through rotational velocity alone, there's no point, if it does or not, it doesn't compare with other results.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - Serotonin - Aug. 13, 2011
(Aug. 09, 2011 8:10 PM)♥ Wrote: MF VariAres R145RF (Right Spin) vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB
Standard Procedure
MF VariAres R145RF: 7 Wins (7 KO)
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB: 13 Wins (5 KO, 8 OS)
VariAres R145RF Win Percentage: 35%
MF VariAres GB145RF (Right Spin) vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB
Standard Procedure
MF VariAres GB145RF Wins: 8 Wins (6 KO, 2 OS)
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB Wins: 12 Wins (6 KO, 6 OS)
MF VariAres GB145RF Win Percentage: 40%
Slight improvement here with 2 more OS wins but one less KO. Nothing particularly significant can really be deduced from this.
(Aug. 09, 2011 8:10 PM)♥ Wrote: MF VariAres R145MF (Right Spin) vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB
Standard Procedure
MF VariAres R145MF: 10 Wins (3 KO, 7 OS)
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB: 1 Wins (7 KO, 3 OS)
VariAres R145MF (Right Spin) Win Percentage: 50%
MF VariAres GB145MF vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB
Standard Procedure
MF VariAres GB145MF Wins: 9 Wins (3 KO, 6 OS)
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145MB Wins: 11 Wins (7 KO, 4 OS)
MF VariAres GB145MF Win Percentage: 45%
Relatively similar results again, nothing particularly interesting.
It seems that GB145 doesn't really affect it that much; all we can say is that 145 is a relatively good height for VariAres.
RE: Vari Ares Discussion - Chups - Aug. 13, 2011
So the main combos for Vari would be MF VariAres BD145/GB145/R145R RF/MF? Am I right?