(Nov. 13, 2020  1:45 AM)TheGolden Blade Wrote: I didn't like that manga that much-

They introduced Ren wu, Joshua, and Fubuki, and guess what! they did carp nothing.

(Nov. 13, 2020  1:52 AM)LOL-y Rancher Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  1:45 AM)TheGolden Blade Wrote: I didn't like that manga that much-

They introduced Ren wu, Joshua, and Fubuki, and guess what! they did carp nothing.

I think it's pretty cool that these past characters get acknowledged at all, but unfortunately most of them just exist as set dressing and fodder for the three new characters to beat to show how awesome they are. It would've been pretty sweet to have a Sparking Forneus.

(Nov. 13, 2020  2:43 AM)God Dragruler Wrote: I won't judge the legend rank of the manga until it we know what are they beys coming in that random booster and that booster cause if it's xcalibur and Phoenix respectively than that's 10 out of 15  now theirs that contest which will decide which legend will get an sparking evo and from what people are saying it looks like zeus cause of 3 letter thing going around which would make 11 out of 15  . only genesis (assuming Phoenix is the booster and assuming the do a surprised someway and also make a new genesis), daina,  wakiya which honestly never really had any hope for then won't get evo,  rantaro manage to get his evo (good job man) .  I honestly never fully believe the bottom 3 (exclude rantaro) would stay as legend as soon as I read wakiya explaining the ranking system I was like well rip daina and wakiya cause their defently out to be replaced by the bros who aims to be legends than lane the special one/the choosen one.  their strength is so far for the ones that fought is correct outside of fighting lane of course cause his well the choosen one.  it's now ad for fubuki ,Kurtz, boa, ghasem,  ruway and Joshua that didn't really bother me as much . fubuki would be the only one that I feel could be bit more cause I feel he was wasted I personally think he should've been aiga main rival in cho z and get the evo Phoenix had which it honestly didn't really needed what it needed was the armor not the rest wasted spot and boa too could've gotten a bit more to do .  even the amaterios and aeclipse beys honestly for was also wasted those 4 spot could've been for beys that matters .  now my one true complain is how the flare is lane straight up #2 he lost to shu but won in a rematch which is not an issues but that jump is ridiculous considering he didn't get legend rank when he  beat  both lui and free why didn't he get in the top 15 then ?

(Nov. 13, 2020  2:47 AM)TheGolden Blade Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  2:43 AM)God Dragruler Wrote: I won't judge the legend rank of the manga until it we know what are they beys coming in that random booster and that booster cause if it's xcalibur and Phoenix respectively than that's 10 out of 15  now theirs that contest which will decide which legend will get an sparking evo and from what people are saying it looks like zeus cause of 3 letter thing going around which would make 11 out of 15  . only genesis (assuming Phoenix is the booster and assuming the do a surprised someway and also make a new genesis), daina,  wakiya which honestly never really had any hope for then won't get evo,  rantaro manage to get his evo (good job man) .  I honestly never fully believe the bottom 3 (exclude rantaro) would stay as legend as soon as I read wakiya explaining the ranking system I was like well rip daina and wakiya cause their defently out to be replaced by the bros who aims to be legends than lane the special one/the choosen one.  their strength is so far for the ones that fought is correct outside of fighting lane of course cause his well the choosen one.  it's now ad for fubuki ,Kurtz, boa, ghasem,  ruway and Joshua that didn't really bother me as much . fubuki would be the only one that I feel could be bit more cause I feel he was wasted I personally think he should've been aiga main rival in cho z and get the evo Phoenix had which it honestly didn't really needed what it needed was the armor not the rest wasted spot and boa too could've gotten a bit more to do .  even the amaterios and aeclipse beys honestly for was also wasted those 4 spot could've been for beys that matters .  now my one true complain is how the flare is lane straight up #2 he lost to shu but won in a rematch which is not an issues but that jump is ridiculous considering he didn't get legend rank when he  beat  both lui and free why didn't he get in the top 15 then ?

Spoiler (Click to View)

Rantaro got demoted to the A rank. Hikaru and Lane took Daina's and Rantaro's spots as legends

(Nov. 13, 2020  1:29 AM)Zeutron Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  1:14 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote: How does that make sense?

Becuase storywise, Shu should be considered the better blader IMO. He had a larger role, awakening system bey and he did better against Phi (his battle with Phi was visually a lot more tense and Phi was even momentarily frightened when Shu broke free from his dark influence). The only reason why both Free and Shu scored 3-1 is because it was a 2 point battle. Phi also said he was challenging the strongest bladers in a particular order while saving the best (Valt) for last so him challenging Shu after Free is a clear sign.

(Nov. 13, 2020  6:41 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  1:29 AM)Zeutron Wrote: Becuase storywise, Shu should be considered the better blader IMO. He had a larger role, awakening system bey and he did better against Phi (his battle with Phi was visually a lot more tense and Phi was even momentarily frightened when Shu broke free from his dark influence). The only reason why both Free and Shu scored 3-1 is because it was a 2 point battle. Phi also said he was challenging the strongest bladers in a particular order while saving the best (Valt) for last so him challenging Shu after Free is a clear sign.

This makes no sense. Free was the first person to go against Phi and his new bey so no one knew what it could do, and Shu stated that he knew Phi was going to challenge him next so he obviously prepared. IMO they have pretty equal feats besides the fact the Shu has never been the number 1 blader while Free has had the biggest gap as number out of all Beyblade. Also larger roles have nothing to do with who is a better blader.

(Nov. 13, 2020  6:41 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  1:29 AM)Zeutron Wrote: Becuase storywise, Shu should be considered the better blader IMO. He had a larger role, awakening system bey and he did better against Phi (his battle with Phi was visually a lot more tense and Phi was even momentarily frightened when Shu broke free from his dark influence). The only reason why both Free and Shu scored 3-1 is because it was a 2 point battle. Phi also said he was challenging the strongest bladers in a particular order while saving the best (Valt) for last so him challenging Shu after Free is a clear sign.

This makes no sense. Free was the first person to go against Phi and his new bey so no one knew what it could do, and Shu stated that he knew Phi was going to challenge him next so he obviously prepared. IMO they have pretty equal feats besides the fact the Shu has never been the number 1 blader while Free has had the biggest gap as number out of all Beyblade. Also larger roles have nothing to do with who is a better blader.

(Nov. 13, 2020  6:44 AM)Achilles25 Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  6:41 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote: This makes no sense. Free was the first person to go against Phi and his new bey so no one knew what it could do, and Shu stated that he knew Phi was going to challenge him next so he obviously prepared. IMO they have pretty equal feats besides the fact the Shu has never been the number 1 blader while Free has had the biggest gap as number out of all Beyblade. Also larger roles have nothing to do with who is a better blader.

Didn't Shu obliterate Lean which Lean obliterate Valt, Aiga, Free, Lui etc.

(Nov. 13, 2020  7:05 AM)Zeutron Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  6:41 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote: This makes no sense. Free was the first person to go against Phi and his new bey so no one knew what it could do, and Shu stated that he knew Phi was going to challenge him next so he obviously prepared. IMO they have pretty equal feats besides the fact the Shu has never been the number 1 blader while Free has had the biggest gap as number out of all Beyblade. Also larger roles have nothing to do with who is a better blader.

As long as you are not a companion character(like Amane, Daina, Ranjiro etc), then having a larger role does mean that the blader will be particularly better than most side characters. Also, Free battling Phi without knowing his bey means nothing in this scenario, Phi never surprised Free with anything he didn’t expect apart from dead stinger which was a new move, not a new feature- and additionally, Free still trained before his match with Phi so it’s not like he wasn’t any more prepared than Shu was. Shu still had to face dead break, which was new to him and again, he was challenged after Phi meaning Shu was a level above Free on Phi’s hierarchy. Using a characters number/length of feats to define their dominance isn’t always correct, for example; if you have three bowling awards and an opponent beats you in your fourth year, you are not better just because you have more rewards. Apart from all that, in both the sparking manga and anime Shu is obviously better than Free, and in the manga he is ranked higher as well no to mention that in both the anime and manga he defeats Lane, an opponent leagues above Free (he beat Free with Uranus in the manga and he beat Valt who was definitely better than Free to some extent). The rankings in sparking are based on the previous strengths and portrayals of characters and since Shu is 2 ranks above Free it’s pretty obvious that he was better than Free in Cho z. If none of this is enough to convince you, then maybe the fact that Hiro Morita himself said he always intended for Valt and Shu be the top bladers at some point is.

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:30 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  6:44 AM)Achilles25 Wrote: Didn't Shu obliterate Lean which Lean obliterate Valt, Aiga, Free, Lui etc.

That’s trash scaling as Free had a Bey that was 2 generations down.

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:33 AM)Achilles25 Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:30 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote: That’s trash scaling as Free had a Bey that was 2 generations down.

But be honest if he still battled with Mirage he would've still got destroyed

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:34 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:33 AM)Achilles25 Wrote: But be honest if he still battled with Mirage he would've still got destroyed

He would’ve at least scored a point. You’re acting like Free is trash when he’s not. Lean is backed by Plot Armour n Shu only beat him because he was Lean’s master. Because if Valt is number one how come he lost then Shu won?

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:30 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  6:44 AM)Achilles25 Wrote: Didn't Shu obliterate Lean which Lean obliterate Valt, Aiga, Free, Lui etc.

That’s trash scaling as Free had a Bey that was 2 generations down.

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(Nov. 13, 2020  7:05 AM)Zeutron Wrote: As long as you are not a companion character(like Amane, Daina, Ranjiro etc), then having a larger role does mean that the blader will be particularly better than most side characters. Also, Free battling Phi without knowing his bey means nothing in this scenario, Phi never surprised Free with anything he didn’t expect apart from dead stinger which was a new move, not a new feature- and additionally, Free still trained before his match with Phi so it’s not like he wasn’t any more prepared than Shu was. Shu still had to face dead break, which was new to him and again, he was challenged after Phi meaning Shu was a level above Free on Phi’s hierarchy. Using a characters number/length of feats to define their dominance isn’t always correct, for example; if you have three bowling awards and an opponent beats you in your fourth year, you are not better just because you have more rewards. Apart from all that, in both the sparking manga and anime Shu is obviously better than Free, and in the manga he is ranked higher as well no to mention that in both the anime and manga he defeats Lane, an opponent leagues above Free (he beat Free with Uranus in the manga and he beat Valt who was definitely better than Free to some extent). The rankings in sparking are based on the previous strengths and portrayals of characters and since Shu is 2 ranks above Free it’s pretty obvious that he was better than Free in Cho z. If none of this is enough to convince you, then maybe the fact that Hiro Morita himself said he always intended for Valt and Shu be the top bladers at some point is.

I’m talking anime not manga. Also you said he only supervised Free with “one move” as if Free had versed him before. Also the one move that surprised Free Is the sam3 move that won him the match so you’re making no sense. And let’s not forget Free is the reason Shu became Red Eye.

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:34 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:33 AM)Achilles25 Wrote: But be honest if he still battled with Mirage he would've still got destroyed

He would’ve at least scored a point. You’re acting like Free is trash when he’s not. Lean is backed by Plot Armour n Shu only beat him because he was Lean’s master. Because if Valt is number one how come he lost then Shu won?

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:34 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:33 AM)Achilles25 Wrote: But be honest if he still battled with Mirage he would've still got destroyed

He would’ve at least scored a point. You’re acting like Free is trash when he’s not. Lean is backed by Plot Armour n Shu only beat him because he was Lean’s master. Because if Valt is number one how come he lost then Shu won?

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:34 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:33 AM)Achilles25 Wrote: But be honest if he still battled with Mirage he would've still got destroyed

He would’ve at least scored a point. You’re acting like Free is trash when he’s not. Lean is backed by Plot Armour n Shu only beat him because he was Lean’s master. Because if Valt is number one how come he lost then Shu won?

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:45 AM)Vtryuga Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:34 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote: He would’ve at least scored a point. You’re acting like Free is trash when he’s not. Lean is backed by Plot Armour n Shu only beat him because he was Lean’s master. Because if Valt is number one how come he lost then Shu won?

Well Free battled lean in manga with mirage and lost 2-0 to first uranus so nope; free is weaker than shu in manga and anime

(Nov. 13, 2020  9:05 AM)Zeutron Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:30 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote: That’s trash scaling as Free had a Bey that was 2 generations down.

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I’m talking anime not manga. Also you said he only supervised Free with “one move” as if Free had versed him before. Also the one move that surprised Free Is the sam3 move that won him the match so you’re making no sense. And let’s not forget Free is the reason Shu became Red Eye.

Well by the end of god Shu was obviously implicitly better, why wouldn’t he be when he fought Valt in the ultimate final battle of s2. Also, Shu never knew about dead break as I clearly said before, so he got caught off guard when Phi used it against him. Power levels really do not differentiate between the manga and anime in most cases. You are only acknowledging certain facts while ignoring others that clearly prove me right. As I said before, Hiro Morita confirmed that Valt and Shu were pretty much intended to be the best which invalidates the idea of Free being better or equal. And again, another fact you ignore is that Shu beat Lane. Free is obviously not on Lane’s level since Valt and Hyuga beat Free and Lui and Lane ended up beating Valt. If you can at least acknowledge that Valt is better than Free in sparking then it’s pretty clear that Shu is better than him in sparking as well. Saying that Shu being better than Free makes no sense even though he is a key character in every season he appears in as well as the original deuteragonist  who is meant to be better is just bias.

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(Nov. 13, 2020  8:34 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote: He would’ve at least scored a point. You’re acting like Free is trash when he’s not. Lean is backed by Plot Armour n Shu only beat him because he was Lean’s master. Because if Valt is number one how come he lost then Shu won?

Plot armour isn’t a handicap, it’s there as reassurance that characters who are important to the plot progress properly and remain strong. Characters influenced by plot armour are intended to succeed or work in favour of another character who is meant to succeed. Shu being Lane’s master is a lame excuse to use for his victory, he didn’t need any special gimmick or technique to beat Lane, he just straight up annihilated him. Lastly, if Aiga couldn’t get a point off of Lane then Free definitely can’t either seeing as they are around equal terms. Shu beat Lane because of his emotional impulse against Lane’s evil which is at best his own power. Free is definitely not equal to Shu is the sparking anime and if he is, Rantaro, Lui, Drum and Sisco may as well all be equal to him as well (and we know that’s not true). The sparking plot requires Shu to be better so it’s sensible that he is portrayed that way, it’s symbolic.

(Nov. 13, 2020  2:43 PM)God Dragruler Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:34 AM)Isaiah.burley Wrote: He would’ve at least scored a point. You’re acting like Free is trash when he’s not. Lean is backed by Plot Armour n Shu only beat him because he was Lean’s master. Because if Valt is number one how come he lost then Shu won?

free would've ended up losing like lui even with mirage. lane is just that strong plot armor is something automatic for the plot each  key character will get it when it's required . what makes a plot armor bad is how often it use .  lui had that plot armor for season he was about to lose but spriggan conveniently broke at that specific momment to give him the win.  shu had it even free had it plot armor is a required thing for characters to progress we fans complains when it's to obvious.. you want to know shu won and valt lost despite being #1 ? well the same way lui beat free before the God bladers cup,  the same way aiga best valt for the title , the same way hearts beat aiga while valt #1 couldn't,  the same way Arthur beat aiga but both delta beat Arthur instead of #1 they were stronger then the #1 when the clash with them shu was stronger than valt at that momment outskill and outsmart lane it's that simple theurs no rocket science in it being #1 Doesn't make you invincible it Doesn't mean you can't loses to a character will someone else can achieve what you couldn't.  sometimes I wonder if some of you watch other anime or read comics, manga light novels. that has those ranking system cause beyblade isn't the first one and well defently not be the last one that #1 loses to a character stronger than him/her while another not #1 does.  even irl life it happens i don't see what's hard to understand

(Nov. 13, 2020  2:48 PM)Isaiah.burley Wrote:

(Nov. 13, 2020  8:45 AM)Vtryuga Wrote: Well Free battled lean in manga with mirage and lost 2-0 to first uranus so nope; free is weaker than shu in manga and anime

I’m only talking about anime not manga.

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(Nov. 13, 2020  9:05 AM)Zeutron Wrote: Well by the end of god Shu was obviously implicitly better, why wouldn’t he be when he fought Valt in the ultimate final battle of s2. Also, Shu never knew about dead break as I clearly said before, so he got caught off guard when Phi used it against him. Power levels really do not differentiate between the manga and anime in most cases. You are only acknowledging certain facts while ignoring others that clearly prove me right. As I said before, Hiro Morita confirmed that Valt and Shu were pretty much intended to be the best which invalidates the idea of Free being better or equal. And again, another fact you ignore is that Shu beat Lane. Free is obviously not on Lane’s level since Valt and Hyuga beat Free and Lui and Lane ended up beating Valt. If you can at least acknowledge that Valt is better than Free in sparking then it’s pretty clear that Shu is better than him in sparking as well. Saying that Shu being better than Free makes no sense even though he is a key character in every season he appears in as well as the original deuteragonist  who is meant to be better is just bias.

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Plot armour isn’t a handicap, it’s there as reassurance that characters who are important to the plot progress properly and remain strong. Characters influenced by plot armour are intended to succeed or work in favour of another character who is meant to succeed. Shu being Lane’s master is a lame excuse to use for his victory, he didn’t need any special gimmick or technique to beat Lane, he just straight up annihilated him. Lastly, if Aiga couldn’t get a point off of Lane then Free definitely can’t either seeing as they are around equal terms. Shu beat Lane because of his emotional impulse against Lane’s evil which is at best his own power. Free is definitely not equal to Shu is the sparking anime and if he is, Rantaro, Lui, Drum and Sisco may as well all be equal to him as well (and we know that’s not true). The sparking plot requires Shu to be better so it’s sensible that he is portrayed that way, it’s symbolic.

So you stating that Hiro Morita “intended” for Valt and Shu to be the best clearly just proves my point. Also in god Free was the undisputed best blader. The only reason Free didn’t battle in the finals is because he got injured. Put it this way, you’re playing someone 1v1 in basketball and you’re going to 21. You’re up 15-10 but then you injure yourself and you can’t play anymore. Does that make the other player better? No. Also Free is better than Aiga, you cant power-scale somone’s strength off of another’s. Like saying “if Aiga couldn’t beat Lean then Free definitely can’t.” Aiga in his whole Beyblade career has never scored a single point against Free. Lastly Dead Break in the same thing as Phoenix Break just a different name (because he got a new Beyblade), so I’m confused about how Shu got caught off guard.

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(Nov. 13, 2020  2:43 PM)God Dragruler Wrote: free would've ended up losing like lui even with mirage. lane is just that strong plot armor is something automatic for the plot each  key character will get it when it's required . what makes a plot armor bad is how often it use .  lui had that plot armor for season he was about to lose but spriggan conveniently broke at that specific momment to give him the win.  shu had it even free had it plot armor is a required thing for characters to progress we fans complains when it's to obvious.. you want to know shu won and valt lost despite being #1 ? well the same way lui beat free before the God bladers cup,  the same way aiga best valt for the title , the same way hearts beat aiga while valt #1 couldn't,  the same way Arthur beat aiga but both delta beat Arthur instead of #1 they were stronger then the #1 when the clash with them shu was stronger than valt at that momment outskill and outsmart lane it's that simple theurs no rocket science in it being #1 Doesn't make you invincible it Doesn't mean you can't loses to a character will someone else can achieve what you couldn't.  sometimes I wonder if some of you watch other anime or read comics, manga light novels. that has those ranking system cause beyblade isn't the first one and well defently not be the last one that #1 loses to a character stronger than him/her while another not #1 does.  even irl life it happens i don't see what's hard to understand

I’m sorry but Free has never had plot armor🤦‍♂️. Also you saying Lui beating Free before the International Bladers Cup makes more sense as Free was #1 and Lui Was #2. Unlike Valt losing to Lane then Shu beating Lane. Also I never said being number 1 makes you invincible. I’m just saying if the number one blader loses then someone else beats the blader he lost to what does that make him?