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+---- Thread: Death Discussion (/Thread-Death-Discussion--42921)
RE: Death Discussion - Imperial - Nov. 23, 2011
@Glowfire
Um, Basalt kicks? What combo did you test aganist what?
RE: Death Discussion - Glowfire1 - Nov. 23, 2011
I mean that basalts only chance to win against death would be to smash(kick) death out, but it´s hard for basalt to do that
and read better which fights I posted
RE: Death Discussion - Hazel - Nov. 23, 2011
(Nov. 23, 2011 3:33 PM)J o n Wrote: Isn't standard testing is 20? I'm getting really tired of 10 rounds... Not enough testing to prove your claim.
10 - 0 says quite a lot, actually, even if standard is 20.
(Nov. 23, 2011 3:38 PM)LR Blader Wrote: Death has been with me for 2 weeks and I'm surprised to see that it out spins all of my Stamina based wheels like Basalt,Burn,Earth,Hell(on BD145), Scythe, and Phantom....
I wonder how long will Death stay on the top of my parts list of being the best Stamina wheel...
My BB-121 will be arriving in a week...so will be soon testing it against Duo...
my stamina combo: MF-L Death Cancer AD145SD....
can anyone test this combo against other stamina types?
If your Death is OSing Phantom, you're using garbage Phantom combos or deliberately launching badly. I'd reckon the same of Scythe, but definitely Phantom.
RE: Death Discussion - th!nk - Nov. 23, 2011
Using identical combo's is more important than the extra 10 rounds (but, 20 is standard procedure soooo).
RE: Death Discussion - Glowfire1 - Nov. 23, 2011
I know that´s standard procedure, but than make you it. it is lame poor and I think 10 to 0 is good enough to see which is better.
RE: Death Discussion - Hov - Nov. 23, 2011
No, you never know what happens. Alright, lemme ask you this you launch death first or last?
RE: Death Discussion - th!nk - Nov. 23, 2011
(Nov. 23, 2011 8:10 PM)Glowfire1 Wrote: I know that´s standard procedure, but than make you it. it is lame poor and I think 10 to 0 is good enough to see which is better.
That's fine and good, but you've again completely ignored the focus of my statements: That other than the part being tested, every part of both combinations should be identical.
I'm getting tired of repeating this.
RE: Death Discussion - Glowfire1 - Nov. 23, 2011
I Start death First
and sorry th!nk, you're right but sometimes or often i don't know what User here wrote
RE: Death Discussion - LR Blader - Nov. 24, 2011
(Nov. 23, 2011 7:27 PM)Hazel Wrote:(Nov. 23, 2011 3:33 PM)J o n Wrote: Isn't standard testing is 20? I'm getting really tired of 10 rounds... Not enough testing to prove your claim.
10 - 0 says quite a lot, actually, even if standard is 20.
(Nov. 23, 2011 3:38 PM)LR Blader Wrote: Death has been with me for 2 weeks and I'm surprised to see that it out spins all of my Stamina based wheels like Basalt,Burn,Earth,Hell(on BD145), Scythe, and Phantom....
I wonder how long will Death stay on the top of my parts list of being the best Stamina wheel...
My BB-121 will be arriving in a week...so will be soon testing it against Duo...
my stamina combo: MF-L Death Cancer AD145SD....
can anyone test this combo against other stamina types?
If your Death is OSing Phantom, you're using garbage Phantom combos or deliberately launching badly. I'd reckon the same of Scythe, but definitely Phantom.
badly huh? well controlled parts i used were MF-F,Cancer,90,and near mint WDs (the WDs i only use for testing)..... for your sake i'm willing to do a video on it......but on my tests it's 10 wins to 0 (alternate launching in each round) don't judge my launching you never even saw me in person. check out my videos on youtube......
RE: Death Discussion - Hazel - Nov. 24, 2011
If you're having Death out-spin Phantom in a Stamina test, you are doing something wrong.
It is contrary to everything I have heard from Uwik, and quite frankly, I'd believe him before you.
RE: Death Discussion - Uwik - Nov. 24, 2011
To be fair to him, it's similar to this case all over again.
Kei's personal tests
vs
Kei's tournament battles
RE: Death Discussion - Janstarblast - Nov. 24, 2011
Well, its quite unbelievable in a way, Uwik. But, is Death better than Scythe for stamina? I never read any such thing...
Also, according to what I understood, he had a stamina test, which means solo spin time, I suppose? Or, are solo spin time tests and stamina tests different?
RE: Death Discussion - Uwik - Nov. 24, 2011
Well, they are similar in a way, yet different.
Solo spin time tests how balanced a bey is. Nothing more, nothing less, I guess. Essentially, the less balance a bey is, the more wobbles it has, which means the more energy is wasted uselessly.
BUT.. Bad balance is not always a bad thing.
Stamina test: Literally, what it says in battle situations. A metal wheel can excel greatly in stamina tests through other methods, other than having a perfect balance. Basalt has terrible balance, yet the surface area on its side 'grinds' the opposing beys so that the opponent loses its valuable stamina, which has the added effect due to its imbalance, so the grinding happens much more.
General rule of thumb: Most of good solo spins usually translate to good stamina, but not all good stamina = good solo spins.
Although, I did test Death informally in terms of stamina. It doesn't have the greatest balance compared to Phantom or Scythe. Plus its gap actually works against itself.
Understandably, the tests that Glowfire1 did is still overwhelmingly controversial to my own tests. But it's still not up to me to judge whether he did it wrong or not. To each his own, I guess.
But yeah, I do agree with th!nk that if a person intends to post results in a thread, it should be according to the standard method (identical parts preferred). If you're unable to comply, then just discuss about it, instead of posting random results, which in turn generate heated arguments over it.
RE: Death Discussion - gibsonmac - Nov. 24, 2011
I played a few matches a while back of MF Phantom BD145CS vs MF Death BD145CS and death won like 7 of ten times, it had me thinking that Death had some potentially killer stamina... However when I put to test straight stamina combos against Phantom, AD145WD and TH170D on both wheels, death lost every time.
So it seems that in one combo, albeit a def combo, Death can OS Phantom. But I haven't tried it since, the situation hasn't come up again, that said it could have been a fluke or due to some unexplained variable so.... Just sayin I have seen it happen, but I wouldn't stake my reputation on it being 'law' not at least until I have done tests that is
RE: Death Discussion - Glowfire1 - Nov. 24, 2011
what´s now the matter, are you accepting my test results ? basalt has in stamina 0 chance against a staminacombo with death
RE: Death Discussion - gibsonmac - Nov. 25, 2011
(Nov. 24, 2011 2:16 PM)Glowfire1 Wrote: what´s now the matter, are you accepting my test results ? basalt has in stamina 0 chance against a staminacombo with death
Huh!?
I was saying it is possible for Death to OS Phantom in the BD145CS mirror, as I've done the match with highly favorable odds to Death, however it was only one occasion that has never tried to have been duplicated again, AND it was only that combo that Death was able to OS Phantom, and every actual stamina mirror tested(AD145WD,TH170D,90WD etc.) Death was rolled by Phantom 100%... I'm not saying anything beyond that...
So at most, you might be able to take away, at the most, that Death is superior in certain Defense combos than Phantom, or the least, merely a strange unexplained variable that caused the results... Luck does play a role in this and any other game. (which is just a blanket term for unexplained/unknown variables anyway)
In either case, Death IS a superb defense wheel... and the out of the box Death Quetzalcoatl 125RDF can OS Basalt Def combos, so its obvious that when a bottom with better stamina properties is used, it too would OS Basalt.
So I wouldn't say I'm accepting nor denying your results, merely acknowledging that you have done tests, while validating, somewhat, the possibility that Death could, in possibly one (or more) situation(s) OS Phantom
RE: Death Discussion - th!nk - Nov. 25, 2011
(Nov. 24, 2011 2:16 PM)Glowfire1 Wrote: what´s now the matter, are you accepting my test results ? basalt has in stamina 0 chance against a staminacombo with death
If you're doing a stamina test, you have to test against a proper stamina combo which uses the same parts (other than the MW), which you didn't.
It's not that we're not accepting your results all together, it's that we're not accepting your (incorrect) assumptions that you based on those results/improper tests (for what you're trying to determine).
We need to note somewhere that while it has some use in stamina combo's, basalt isn't a regular stamina wheel. Not that tests against it aren't valid, Basalt stamina combo's are fairly common and perform quite decently, so it's helpful for determining what works competitively, they just should not be used to gauge another wheel's stamina, as the reason it outspins other wheels is due more to it's "grinding" etc than its own stamina.
RE: Death Discussion - ShadowL-Drago - Nov. 25, 2011
So i decided to contribute to testing for stamina purposes since my buddy let me borrow his MFB attack stadium for a change.
MFB Attack Stadium
BeyLauncher L/R
20 battles
Alternating Launches.
MF Death Cancer AD145 WD (Attack) VS MF Phantom Cancer AD145 WD (Stamina)
Death Cancer
0/20
Phantom Cancer
20/20 all OS
Nothing surprising there. Phantom was making the majority of it's contact against the gap on Death.
MF Death Cancer AD145 Wd (Defense) Vs MF Phantom Cancer AD145 WD (Stamina)
Death Cancer
9/20 all OS
Phantom Cancer
11/20 all OS
Most of the time it depended on who was launched first, Defense mode on Death seemed to work a lot better...
MF Death Cancer AD145 WD Vs MF Phantom Cancer AD145 WD (Attack)
Death Cancer
7/20
Phantom Cancer
13/20
Once again it depended on who was launched first. Im assuming that attack mode on Phantom has less recoil and could possibly be why it did better in this mode.
I hope i helped by contributing my time to test this wheel.
RE: Death Discussion - Janstarblast - Nov. 25, 2011
(Nov. 25, 2011 3:28 AM)ShadowL-Drago Wrote: So i decided to contribute to testing for stamina purposes since my buddy let me borrow his MFB attack stadium for a change.
MFB Attack Stadium
BeyLauncher L/R
20 battles
Alternating Launches.
MF Death Cancer AD145 WD (Attack) VS MF Phantom Cancer AD145 WD (Stamina)
Death Cancer- 0/20
Phantom Cancer- 20/20 (all OS)
Death Win %- 0%
Nothing surprising there. Phantom was making the majority of it's contact against the gap on Death.
MF Death Cancer AD145 WD (Defense) Vs MF Phantom Cancer AD145 WD (Stamina)
Death Cancer- 9/20 (all OS)
Phantom Cancer- 11/20 (all OS)
Death Win %- 45%
Most of the time it depended on who was launched first, Defense mode on Death seemed to work a lot better...
MF Death Cancer AD145 WD Vs MF Phantom Cancer AD145 WD (Attack)
Death Cancer- 7/20
Phantom Cancer- 13/20
Death Win %- 35%
Once again it depended on who was launched first. Im assuming that attack mode on Phantom has less recoil and could possibly be why it did better in this mode.
I hope i helped by contributing my time to test this wheel.
Quite major edits in there...
Follow the standard procedure as far as possible. It makes it easier for us to understand.
Also, thanks for the wonderful explanation, Uwik.
RE: Death Discussion - gibsonmac - Nov. 26, 2011
(Nov. 25, 2011 3:28 AM)ShadowL-Drago Wrote: [test results]
When it comes down to who launched first as to who wins... you cannot use those tests, you need another person to test with you...
The only valid single person stamina tests, are those that do not hinge on which bey launched first...
RE: Death Discussion - th!nk - Nov. 27, 2011
(Nov. 26, 2011 7:51 PM)gibsonmac Wrote:(Nov. 25, 2011 3:28 AM)ShadowL-Drago Wrote: [test results]
When it comes down to who launched first as to who wins... you cannot use those tests, you need another person to test with you...
The only valid single person stamina tests, are those that do not hinge on which bey launched first...
Then it would likely depend on which of the two had the strongest launch :C
RE: Death Discussion - gibsonmac - Nov. 28, 2011
True, but assuming both people launch as hard as they can and they are of equal strength.... At least they are launched at the same time
RE: Death Discussion - Hazel - Nov. 28, 2011
There are ways to regulate launch strength as a single individual, as well. A set speed/motion and then automatically releasing at the same moment in each launch(ie: when the string pops taut against the guard) will basically offer the most consistent possible launch.
Perhaps I am the only one that puts so much thought into it, though...
RE: Death Discussion - th!nk - Nov. 28, 2011
Both people won't be of equal strength, and there's more to launching than how hard you do it, too. Alternating rounds means that if they're roughly even stamina wise, it'll be about 50-50, and if it seems to be the case that launch order determines the winner, that should be noted.
That said, at a tournament, both people will not be equally matched either...
I wish TT would release a duotron that was stronger and more consistent than my hand spins.
RE: Death Discussion - Jaygrazer - Nov. 28, 2011
(Nov. 28, 2011 12:57 PM)th!nk Wrote: That said, at a tournament, both people will not be equally matched either...
SO true!
Play at 9:29.
Me-MF-H Death Quetz BD145CS
Shadow L Drago- MF Death Quetz BD145CS
Logically, I should've won, but Shadow is older & stronger than me. Look who won at the end 3-1...