(Apr. 28, 2017  10:58 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Plus, Vulcan Horuseus was a Defense type, from what I recall, but it was clearly top-tier in Attack instead. This is not new in Beyblade.

(Apr. 30, 2017  3:37 AM)Mstubbs88 Wrote: Driger S also consistently defeats D2. Js.

(Apr. 30, 2017  4:22 AM)Kai-V Wrote: Can anybody but Leo Burst back that though? And can it defeat anything else?

(Apr. 29, 2017  8:21 PM)Ultra Wrote: Any reason why no used attack or L2 or Odin? Based on what i've seen from tourneys where I am L2 is definitely viable.

(Apr. 30, 2017  5:12 AM)MonoDragon Wrote: Edit: Here's a video of him using Driger S Gravity Xtreme against D2 Spread Revolve. The combo wins quite handily.

(May. 01, 2017  7:21 PM)Sıon Wrote: I think we should outright ban D2 and Deathscyther period. If a whole metagame is based on trying to find counters do defeat a single part, then it really isnt much of a metagame.

(May. 01, 2017  7:51 PM)Ultra Wrote: Literally every generation has or has in the past had a metagame has like this to some extent though.... How does that kind of comment reflect on beyblade as a whole? It's not like the situation with D and D2 is anything new.

(May. 01, 2017  7:51 PM)Ultra Wrote: Literally every generation has or has in the past had a metagame has like this to some extent though.... How does that kind of comment reflect on beyblade as a whole? It's not like the situation with D and D2 is anything new.

(May. 01, 2017  7:58 PM)MonoDragon Wrote: If a counter existed then D2 wouldn't be so prominent in the game. That's why I say ban it until the God Series releases something that can counter, match or outdo D2

(May. 01, 2017  7:21 PM)Sıon Wrote: I think we should outright ban D2 and Deathscyther period. If a whole metagame is based on trying to find counters do defeat a single part, then it really isnt much of a metagame.

(May. 01, 2017  9:36 PM)Jimmyjazz39 Wrote: I vote option one and try that out first. if Deathscyther does propose a problem after that we could always ban that too. D2 is more of an issue rn than anything else

(May. 03, 2017  8:14 AM)ScytheBlader03 Wrote: Do YOU think that Driger S should be banned?

(Apr. 29, 2017  7:43 PM)Kei Wrote: Yeah, this is the big thing for me: the inconsistency and situational nature of D2 counters, and the availability and quick-wearing nature of Deathscyther. Like I mentioned above, we already present a large enough barrier to the community by basically requiring importing Japanese releases to be successful, so if we can lower that barrier a little bit by banning a part (Deathscyther) which is the best Stamina Layer in the game (this is a bigger issue than if it were the post powerful Attack or Defense type in the game because Stamina is the easiest type to use) and wears quickly, it's a win for everybody involved:

1. New players have a better opportunity to compete with anybody in a Stamina match-up (saying they can just use Attack to counter Deathscyther isn't really valid; I'd rather craft a metagame where all players have a relatively equal opportunity to compete at a high level in any way which they desire. I don't want them to feel forced into using a particular type to overcome an issue like the one which exists with Deathscyther).

In the hands of a good player, a mint Deathscyther is an incredibly formidable opponent. It can outspin anything and depending on the match-up and launching skill of the users involved, can defeat many Attack combinations without much trouble too. Even though there is absolutely counters (which are more or less effective not only on the players involved, but also depending on the condition of the Deathscyther), I don't think it's quite as bad defensively as some of you have made it out to be.

In fact, I took the time to review my battle data and since around December 2015 when I started recording every single battle I play in Toronto at our official WBO events, I discovered that in my battles where Deathscyther was used, Deathscyther won 67% of the time (31/46 times) against offensive opponents (whether I was using Deathscyther or my opponent was) in regular matches (this does not include rounds played in Deck Format Finals). This is massively telling in my opinion. Worth noting that most of these match-ups were against highly competitive Attack types like Valkyrie or Valtryek. I noticed that in a lot of cases when Valkyrie won, it was 3-2 ... so the irrefutable fact of the matter is that Deathscyther is not as weak against all forms of Attack as people might think.

(Apr. 30, 2017  4:22 AM)Kai-V Wrote:

(Apr. 30, 2017  3:37 AM)Mstubbs88 Wrote: Driger S also consistently defeats D2. Js.

Can anybody but Leo Burst back that though? And can it defeat anything else?

(May. 05, 2017  7:19 AM)Wombat Wrote: #hashtagBringBackNestedQuote2K17

(May. 05, 2017  7:19 AM)Wombat Wrote: I guess your experience with Deathscyther is much different than mine - I also went through all of my recorded matches (granted I've played a lot less of them than you have, but most of them have been against equally skilled opponents) and Deathscyther was only able to defeat an offensive opponent 25% of the time. These matchups were also against competitive Attackers like Valkyrie or V2, and 50% of the time Deathscyther got cooked 0-3.

I'd also like to mention that yes, Stamina is the easiest type to use and that new players won't be able to compete with Deathscyther. What makes Deathscyther different is that players don't need to be forced into using Attack to defeat it - factually speaking, it's a lot riskier to use than other historically 'safe' Stamina combos because it's easy to walk into some random matchup against almost any combo with an aggressive Layer and a stationary Driver and then lose by bursting. Remember, this is the reason Odin was banned - it had similar Stamina to Deathscyther while also being a lot more difficult to burst, and that's what made it a safer combo. Since KO Attack requires a lot more skill to use effectively than Burst Attack, it's much safer to run a Burst Defense/Stamina build than a KO Defense/Stamina one.