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+---- Thread: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread (/Thread-Plastics-Random-Thoughts-Parts-Discussion-Thread)
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - th!nk - Feb. 03, 2014
A number of plastics articles on beywiki need updating, and there aren't many people able to do it (I am, but it's an incredibly large task and I get burnt out a lot more easily than most). I must not have thought to add the "out of date" disclaimer to the non-beyblade pages, which I must remember to do soon as some of them are pretty bad (Zombies, for example). Better to go by the plastics CC list etc, but for the beyblade articles there are disclaimers where appropriate.
Anyways, Wide Defense is a middle-weight WD, it's mainly used for its low recoil when it is the perimeter of the beyblade (that notch has a bit but for various reasons even that is less recoil prone than pretty much every AR out there), but also for adding to the balance properties of weight based defense. Personally I find Ten Heavy is much better, especially with smash turtle (which is IMO the best Weight Based Defense AR), as it adds to the force smash that weight based defense makes excellent use of, but Wide Defense is still viable.
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - V2 - Feb. 03, 2014
I'd reckon that the wide defense + SG MBB + smash turtle combo could act as a defense combo with a little bit of additional aggro (because of the ball tip) to make use of forced smash attack. (HMC?)
A pure weight based would be 10 heavy + CMCB + HMC + whichever AR suits.
This is speculation as well as a memory of similar discussion recently.
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - th!nk - Feb. 03, 2014
Honestly, Smash Turtle+10H+HMC+Customize Metal Change Base w/ Defense Ring actually ends up more effective - Smash Turtle's force attack doesn't really knock things out, it just grinds them down into the stadium floor, making them scrape much sooner, and CMCB makes better use of this due to significantly better stamina and also being less susceptible to hard hits to the base from tilted opponents (even pure force smash customs still generally win by outspin, though more aggression can help with that and they can KO lighter opponents. Generally speaking in plastics trying to smash your opponent downwards just gets you upwards recoil, so it doesn't work very well). A little practice with CMCB can still get you necessary aggression, and with SGMBB wide defense isn't necessary in the slightest to get decent aggression. CMCB's greater defense and stamina means it's almost always going to be better than SGMBB if you can get accustomed to banking at the right angle tbh.
As for purely defensive weight based defense, CMCB w/ Defense Ring, 10H and an HMC along with Tiger Defenser, War Lion or Roller Defense Ring would probably be there, which is a big crossover into compact territory.
Oh and FWIW, while Wide Defense is technically lighter than the average weight disk from the CC list, that's because it eclipses pretty much everything lighter than it (often even things that are even on there*), because the only real use for a lightweight WD is the wide weight distribution many provide, and Wide Defense does that better than just about all of them.
*Thing I Snipped Out About Ten Balance/Wide and Wide Survivor (Click to View)
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - V2 - Feb. 03, 2014
It all makes sense, thanks for the info!
And i'm just desperatly trying to find a niche for SGMBB, it's one of my faves
On a different note, is there any purpose for which Cross Survivor surpasses Defense Ring as a choice of SP?
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - th!nk - Feb. 03, 2014
If you have your heart set on it, KO launching (extra weight means more midair collisions) and/or generally more aggressive weight based defense ARs would be the way to go (perhaps you could use mirage goddess in right if you can find one, though it is kinda recoil-prone, left spin weight defense is generally a bad idea), but it still would probably be less useful than some other type of weight based defense combo using CMCB. Oh, could perhaps use Upper Dragoon and Wide Defense for some kinda offensive ability though really I don't like upper dragoon for attack aside from spin stealing upper attack so eh.
Cross Survivor offers more protection if you don't have wide defense/survivor (eg if you're trying to make a grip-based-defense-pseudo-zombie, Magne Weight Disk + Cross Survivor is probably the best setup to go with), though Defense Ring is still better for Weight Based Defense and Compacts due to its more compact design (think it's also heavier, but I forget). It's not bad by any means (though I really wouldn't use it on Compacts). Same spin stamina is also probably better than defense ring so in a same spin stamina matchup or something it might work better? Its weight distribution is also better for four-sided offensive beyblades, though Customize Grip Bases height generally means Triple Tiger is the best AR, and that works best with Survivor Ring. Before inverting defense grip base's tip, I used it on my SG Grip Change Base Tip in Wolborg 2 Casings in Customize Bearing Base attack setup, and it's still good there, though personally as I like Mountain Hammer on that setup now, I use defense ring for better exposure etc etc (and because it just seems to work better overall). That setup is outlandishly expensive too thanks to the tip so probably not a super practical use.
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - V2 - Feb. 03, 2014
Poor SGMBB, he wants to be hardcore but CMCB won't let him ;_;
Am I right in thinking KO launch = Try to hit the opponent's blade in mid-air and get a ring-out/dead-on-landing?
Seems...unlikely and exceptionally unreliable. Poor, poor SGMBB
Guess I'll try some super heavy ARs and try to find a magical, as of yet unknown combo...mirage goddess/holy despell/wing attack ring/corona saber/dragon breaker/spike lizard [of which I only have holy despell haha]
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - th!nk - Feb. 03, 2014
To be fair, everyone thought CMCB sucked (except maybe on Driger V2 based combos) until recently and SGMBB was the king of weight based defense for years. SGMBB is hardly the underdog here.
It's not too unreliable with practice, plus as long as you don't overshoot the stadium, there's no real risk compared to how the matchup would go anyway.
I've tried all of those bar Wing Attack Ring (which is exceptionally fragile) and apart from Mirage Goddess they're all probably gonna be too recoil prone to do anything once in the stadium. Seaborg 2's AR could also be used, I guess, but it's still very recoily.
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - V2 - Feb. 03, 2014
(Feb. 03, 2014 4:02 PM)th!nk Wrote: I've tried all of those bar Wing Attack Ring
Now THAT is very impressive!
Anyone happen to know of any vids showing a successful ko-launch? I'm trawling through some of the tourney vids hunting it down
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - th!nk - Feb. 03, 2014
Plastics tournaments don't happen that often and they're the only things light and large enough for it to be viable in tbh, so I doubt it. Pretty simple thing though, you just kinda "flick" the bey forward (towards the opposing bey) as you launch. Main issue is it takes two people to really practice it, and I guess a player who picked up on it might be able to lower their launch to reduce the effectiveness/timeframe or whatever, though how useful that would be idk.
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - V2 - Feb. 04, 2014
Heh, I guess the old adage "practice makes perfect" applies.
I can see myself missing entirely though...probably safer to do a gattyaki
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - th!nk - Feb. 04, 2014
Gattyakki is even less reliable tbh, much easier to counter, too.
FWIW, I have very poor hand-eye coordination and I was still pretty decent at it last time I had to use it (while ago now). Didn't miss the stadium once, either, it's just a matter of not overshooting and getting used to the arc of movement the combo makes when you do it. Perhaps I just got lucky but it's still part of why weight based defense is generally my go-to for when I need a balance type kinda thing and I don't know what spin direction they might use/think they might counter my defensive zombie with spiral change base or whatever.
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - K-NiGhT - Mar. 15, 2014
So I've found a bunch of my old plastics. Is Corona Saber a good AR?
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - RDF3 - Mar. 16, 2014
(Mar. 15, 2014 12:11 AM)K-NiGhT Wrote: So I've found a bunch of my old plastics. Is Corona Saber a good AR?
It's good- in fact it's in the Plastics Competitive Combo's List:
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Plastics-Competitive-Custom-List-and-Public-Discussion
th!nk mentioned on th!nkblargh that it has more power and similar/slightly less recoil than it's main rival- Cybernetic Dragon (which fell short on power to make it to the Plastics CC- unfortunate- since it looks really threatening.)
Just be careful using it because IIRC someone mentioned that due to it suffering high recoil (it's got an [H] tag so that means Hyper Aggresive- and recoil laden) and having horrible aerodynamics it loses spin real quick. Miss even one inch on launch and you're probably gonna lose.
Then again i'm not as good as th!nk on plastics so questions would be better answered by him.
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - V2 - Mar. 26, 2014
(Mar. 15, 2014 12:11 AM)K-NiGhT Wrote: So I've found a bunch of my old plastics. Is Corona Saber a good AR?
Stick it on a decently grippy & fast base and it'll pretty much KO most opponents.
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - K-NiGhT - Mar. 26, 2014
(Mar. 26, 2014 8:01 PM)Turquoise Wrote:(Mar. 15, 2014 12:11 AM)K-NiGhT Wrote: So I've found a bunch of my old plastics. Is Corona Saber a good AR?
Stick it on a decently grippy & fast base and it'll pretty much KO most opponents.
Awesome! Do you know where I can find an SG Grip Change Base?
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - th!nk - Mar. 27, 2014
I would suggest getting a Seaborg instead and flipping the tip over, SG Grip Change Base is very fragile, also very expensive. Though Seaborg's base is a little tall, Corona Saber has a little much recoil for the lower-grip bases to handle.
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - RDF3 - Mar. 27, 2014
Are any of these AR's tested (For anything even remotely competitive)?
-Great Tiger (Main AR, S-AR simply sucks because it's like Great Dragon S-AR)
-Cross Horn
-Trident Vector
Great Tiger seems similar to War Lion, Cross Horn looks scary and so does Trident Vector.
Also, this probably can outspin Circle Survivor Defense:
Spoiler (Click to View)
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - th!nk - Mar. 28, 2014
Great Tiger's Core AR is War Lion. SAR is easier to fix in place than Great Dragon/SG Wing Base's but has high recoil and not much power. Funnily enough it actually fits under the main piece of Dragoon F's AR, though this isn't legal and still sucks anyway).
Cross Horn's beywiki article accurately describes it (that's a recent one so it's generally on the mark - base section may not have been updated for the whole Seaborg thing, but aside from that it's all good).
Trident Vector I don't own - kamadude1216 was using it recently and apparently it has extreme recoil even on Seaborg's base, to the point that I kinda doubt even Uriel 2's tip would be able to help with.
As for the zombie/stamina combo it would probably just get knocked out tbh, and even putting that aside I'm not sure it would necessarily OS the better ones.
These questions probably belong in the Q&A thread, by the way, just for future reference.
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - The Ninja - Mar. 29, 2014
I have a question about combinations. I am a noob amd I have no experience with plastics what-so-ever, and I need a good combo.
Here is my collection:
Dragoon G,
Dranzer V,
Draciel G,
And Rock Bison.
If you know the top attack and defense/balance combination, please tell me. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - TimeOut - Mar. 29, 2014
Take your pick of any of the weight disks except the dranzer v one, and put dragoon gs ar on dranzer g for attack and th!nk might rank them in the other order, but for defense your best option will be stock rock bison with draciel g's ar and what think might suggest would be something with draciel g's base
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - V2 - Apr. 08, 2014
So...finally got around to testing the semi-famous sg metal ball base + wide def + hmc (+ tiger defenser) combo.
It was going pretty well until I put it up against a minimally customized driger v2.
Wow, that thing is just dominant with the slightest changes.
poor draciel, I hope turtle crusher fares better (if i manage to obtain one)
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - BrooklynBEGA - Apr. 26, 2014
So I have a few options that I can do with what I have. I had Top Tier Attack Combo:
AR: Triple Claw
WR: 10 Wide
SG: Neo Right w/ HMC
BB: Metal Flat (Gaia Dragoon V)
But someone had Trygle so I subbed Triple Claw for Triple Wing and I kinda noticed that there was a bit of a lack of power behind it so I might switch it back. And if you think Driger V2 is OP out of the box, I once beat someone back in the day using Driger S out of the box. Imagine if I used the HMC on Driger S.
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - V2 - Apr. 26, 2014
The Driger I was using was V2 with HMC and Wide Def (10 heavy also dominated)
Driger V2 is generally considered the single best uncustomized blade anyhoo
(also, I thought your name sounded familiar, but couldn't believe it was 4 years ago wow)
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - BrooklynBEGA - Apr. 27, 2014
(Apr. 26, 2014 11:41 PM)Sylver Wrote: The Driger I was using was V2 with HMC and Wide Def (10 heavy also dominated)
Driger V2 is generally considered the single best uncustomized blade anyhoo
(also, I thought your name sounded familiar, but couldn't believe it was 4 years ago wow)
Unfortunately, I was too poverty to experience the greatness that is Wide Defense or Staminas. Pretty much Drigers save for F and V have been consistently good out of the box.
And yeah, I kinda retired because I really can't keep up with the whole Zero-G and I rediscovered fighting games so I've been doing that but I got people to play Beyblade for fun at my school so I'm kinda coming back but I wish plastics and HMS were still around.
RE: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread - th!nk - Apr. 27, 2014
Driger V2 will generally mess up any weight based defense combo - they're right in the middle of the range of things Driger V2 laughs at. Going with CMCB would give you a better shot as otherwise it has a ridiculous stamina advantage against you in addition to the regular abilities it has (including hitting you right on that recoily blade base).
Counterintuitive as it may be, going for the KO might be the best option because it's going to destabilise you and a good Driger V2 setup has a better weight distro than Weight Based Defense combos
For the record, wide defense/sgmbb/tiger defenser are all parts I'm not fond of for weight defense. First and Last sacrifice major reasons to use the type (overall defense and weight for smashing into your opponent mid-air, Force Smash which basically provides almost all of the types versatility) and sgmbb is pretty much outclassed - the three together are quite a bad mismatch too - if there's any reason to use SGMBB it's increased aggression and maybe extra weight - you don't need wide defense for the aggression though with SGMBB's stamina I could see it helping, but you should never stick Tiger Defenser on SGMBB - Tiger/Roller Defenser are for Defense and thus absolutely belong on a base that isn't recoil prone/can actually catch a tornado ridge, Customize Metal Change Base. And even with all that, Circle Survivor Defense then has a bunch of things that are probably more worthwhile. Wide Defense, well, if you want to outspin things with a weight based defense custom, a) probably don't use SGMBB and b) you're better off going with Force Smash from Smash Turtle and Ten Heavy, really.
Triple Tiger hits a bit harder than Triple Wing generally (I was actually just writing about it, but with how big its contact points are, it has astonishingly low recoil - all due to the fact they're basically perfectly angled for efficient energy transfer to the opponent) and on SG Metal Flat Base (GDV Version) if you have wide defense Cross Griffon is also better than Triple Wing really - though tbh it's one of the setups where I've been less impressed by Triple Tiger comparatively.
Also for smash (and any upper gained with triple tiger isn't worth it there), HMC <<<<<<< practising banking - really, it's everything you don't want in a smash attack custom (centred weight does not help their recoil enough to compensate for the increased recoil trouble from the speed loss), and the entire reason people used it aside from that was "controllability" - which is bull, an MG core on SGMF2 is perfectly controllable if you practice banking and experiment enough with your launch.
Driger V2 actually beats a lot more out of the box than Driger S - it's heavy (not sure if it's the heaviest uncustomized beyblade but it has to be near to it at the least), very easy to hit things with and its "scraping" problems are one of the most overstated things this side of 10bBistool's competitive ability - it has a really wide weight distribution and as a result the point where they actually hit the floor comes extremely late in the match (and they really don't scrape as bad as you think, most of the perimeter is still round after all!)
It'll also win the head to head with Driger S given a good launch (usually by KO but without an HMC in driger s it would probably manage to destabilise it pretty easily too), and in more recent times uncustomized/barely customized Driger V2's have made a massive impact at tournaments - I still blame understatement of its abilities on the since-rewritten BeyWiki article for my own loss to one (though by this I mean no slight to r0ckbull, the guy is great with plastics and he had the experience).
It's always nice to have members from a while back return - Sylver did the same and he's been a godsend to have around for me personally (and the same goes for Kai Hiwatari, who I haven't seen much of lately sadly). Plastics has changed a bit in the past couple of years in particular - I went on a big plastics kick and I'm, well, I like knowing things and checking things and trying stuff out so a lot of things were looked at, and some didn't hold up - and other things did - though it's definitely not all me - Circle Survivor Defense re-emerging is one of the most significant things I saw and that started I think with LeeDraciel using one at a tournament - the type had through lack of documentation aside from sparse references on the topic of Zombie Killers (hardly their most notable attribute - something about being completely impervious to upper attack to the point they are a big part of why you won't see traditional upper attack on the competitive combinations list is sort of notable, as is the reliable handling of Defensive Zombies (in fact, a good Zombie is the only thing that can outspin them in opposite spin so the "zombie killer" name was completely inappropriate!)
I'm still working on something that should contain all the info/knowledge as it now stands for the competitive side of plastics, with plastics remembrance day this year being the point I've decided that even if I haven't quite finished, it goes public, so that'll be around soon enough too, but yeah - I guess maybe expect to be surprised once in a while but plenty of what you know will still stand to a good extent too so don't be too worried and you've probably chosen a pretty good time to get back into it!
This disclaimer kinda thing always feels awkward and rather impertinent to explain to someone of significantly older vintage but at the same time, if I had any doubt that the more recent stuff was correct I wouldn't be saying this in the first place, haha.