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+--- Thread: Ban Hasbro Bearing? (/Thread-Ban-Hasbro-Bearing)
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - 1234beyblade - Mar. 13, 2019
(Mar. 13, 2019 2:57 PM)KingSpin Wrote:(Mar. 13, 2019 2:41 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: Bank shot is 35 degree angle and it makes your bey go in a stupid pattern on X' that wastes all of its energy, the method I posted is simply to avoid that and get as much speed as possible while also having a chance to hit the middle. Classic bank shot is still better on old X and J'.
Yeah I realize that not everyone thinks like me which is why I've already stated I won't argue anymore cuz my opinion is already known, as you said, it's not OP and I could care less if it's banned or not, I can still probably delete most people who use that combo with attack as it's so light but it avoiding a 2 point win condition is kinda annoying esp when it's better counterpart (hS) bursts so easily against attackers (wV and nL).
Thanks! Will definitely try it with X' on my next tournament here.
I hope the final decision will take into account everyone's sentiments. This topic is a really polarizing one.
Yeah I agree with blade kid though, maybe Br isn't the problem and it's just B3. I'll do some more testing with Kei this weekend to see if that's the case.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - bladekid - Mar. 13, 2019
(Mar. 13, 2019 3:08 PM)1234beyblade Wrote:Thank you, lol(Mar. 13, 2019 2:57 PM)KingSpin Wrote: Thanks! Will definitely try it with X' on my next tournament here.
I hope the final decision will take into account everyone's sentiments. This topic is a really polarizing one.
Yeah I agree with blade kid though, maybe Br isn't the problem and it's just B3. I'll do some more testing with Kei this weekend to see if that's the case.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - EmrysTal - Mar. 13, 2019
Just wanna give a thanks to everyone who already has or will be contributing test data to this discussion. Your time and efforts are greatly appreciated.
From catching up on the comments since yesterday, I think bladekid's test results and comments have distilled this discussion into 2 test cases:
Test case 1
Objective: Test that H.Bearing does not create unburstable combinations with layers outside of an outlier.
--Thank you bladekid for your test results. Can anyone corroborate his results through running the same tests?
--Do we need to test more layers to get a more comprehensive understanding of H.Bearing?
Test case 2
Objective: Test the level of Balkesh B3's Burst resistance with various Hasbro performance tips.
--Combinations to test:
- Balkesh B3 + Atomic
- Balkesh B3 + Bearing (We all know, but for the sake of concrete data gathering)
- Balkesh B3 + Eternal-S
- Balkesh B3 + Orbit
- Balkesh B3 + Revolve
- Balkesh B3 +
(I haven't been playing long enough to know what else should be tested and mostly grabbed this list of drivers from reading through other threads and the wiki)
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - DreamBlade - Mar. 13, 2019
(Mar. 13, 2019 7:42 AM)1234beyblade Wrote:(Mar. 13, 2019 4:35 AM)DreamBlade Wrote: So you want Hasbro to re release some horrible TT parts so it's not trash to you? Do you even know how buisnesses work? Hasbro uses softer plastic so it has less chances of breaking. Just banning bearing altogether would make the Hasbro god series outclassed. I'd rather put restrictions on what combos it can be on. Like balkesh, garuda,fafnir,and spryzen. Balkesh 0 bump bearing is almost unbeatable. I bursted it one time. When I used it in my first tournament I got 3rd place just with that bey in the first stage. Fafnir on bearing is burstable because of the hard rubber. Spryzen Requiem, maybe but it depends. Do some research before preaching hate.
how can you say "rerelease horrible TT parts" when hasbro is irrelevant and has been irrelevant the whole time since they released their garbage soft beys lmao (and no dont use the crappy broken bearing as an excuse to say hasbro is relevant because the only reason it is, is cuz of some stupid decision to make bearing like 10 times harder to burst than the original release.. OMG I JUST REMEMBERED, THEIR NEW SERIES IS PLASTIC NOT METAL WHAT A JOKE. hasbro is bad period. only in it for the money, they dont care about good products). Their product is a joke, even in classic format hasbro doesn't compete with TT parts. The examples you provided me all are variants of the crappy bearing combo, dont put me to sleep, give me some attack combos or anything aside from hasbro bearing combos, oh wait there isnt any OMEGALUL.
I literally don't understand what hasbro is thinking it started going down hill at the end of MFB they screwed around with the original releases and made their own garbage touches to the products (that being the beginning of metal fury where they made their beys hallow for cheaper production and more profit, it's actually disgusting). Clearly hasbro just wants to exploit kids and not make good products like they use to with early mfb and plastic gen idk anyone that's a blader from at least 10 years ago that agrees with the fact that hasbro products now a days are good.
Either way this is off topic, so if you want to continue our argument don't reply here and pm me instead.
(Mar. 13, 2019 5:36 PM)EmrysTal Wrote: Just wanna give a thanks to everyone who already has or will be contributing test data to this discussion. Your time and efforts are greatly appreciated.
From catching up on the comments since yesterday, I think bladekid's test results and comments have distilled this discussion into 2 test cases:
Test case 1
Objective: Test that H.Bearing does not create unburstable combinations with layers outside of an outlier.
--Thank you bladekid for your test results. Can anyone corroborate his results through running the same tests?
--Do we need to test more layers to get a more comprehensive understanding of H.Bearing?
Test case 2
Objective: Test the level of Balkesh B3's Burst resistance with various Hasbro performance tips.
--Combinations to test:
- Balkesh B3 + Atomic
- Balkesh B3 + Bearing (We all know, but for the sake of concrete data gathering)
- Balkesh B3 + Eternal-S
- Balkesh B3 + Orbit
- Balkesh B3 + Revolve
- Balkesh B3 +
(I haven't been playing long enough to know what else should be tested and mostly grabbed this list of drivers from reading through other threads and the wiki)
Balkesh still doesn't burst even with bad drivers like impact and liner.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - MWF - Mar. 13, 2019
(Mar. 13, 2019 5:56 PM)DreamBlade Wrote:(Mar. 13, 2019 7:42 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: how can you say "rerelease horrible TT parts" when hasbro is irrelevant and has been irrelevant the whole time since they released their garbage soft beys lmao (and no dont use the crappy broken bearing as an excuse to say hasbro is relevant because the only reason it is, is cuz of some stupid decision to make bearing like 10 times harder to burst than the original release.. OMG I JUST REMEMBERED, THEIR NEW SERIES IS PLASTIC NOT METAL WHAT A JOKE. hasbro is bad period. only in it for the money, they dont care about good products). Their product is a joke, even in classic format hasbro doesn't compete with TT parts. The examples you provided me all are variants of the crappy bearing combo, dont put me to sleep, give me some attack combos or anything aside from hasbro bearing combos, oh wait there isnt any OMEGALUL.
I literally don't understand what hasbro is thinking it started going down hill at the end of MFB they screwed around with the original releases and made their own garbage touches to the products (that being the beginning of metal fury where they made their beys hallow for cheaper production and more profit, it's actually disgusting). Clearly hasbro just wants to exploit kids and not make good products like they use to with early mfb and plastic gen idk anyone that's a blader from at least 10 years ago that agrees with the fact that hasbro products now a days are good.
Either way this is off topic, so if you want to continue our argument don't reply here and pm me instead.
(Mar. 13, 2019 5:36 PM)EmrysTal Wrote: Just wanna give a thanks to everyone who already has or will be contributing test data to this discussion. Your time and efforts are greatly appreciated.
From catching up on the comments since yesterday, I think bladekid's test results and comments have distilled this discussion into 2 test cases:
Test case 1
Objective: Test that H.Bearing does not create unburstable combinations with layers outside of an outlier.
--Thank you bladekid for your test results. Can anyone corroborate his results through running the same tests?
--Do we need to test more layers to get a more comprehensive understanding of H.Bearing?
Test case 2
Objective: Test the level of Balkesh B3's Burst resistance with various Hasbro performance tips.
--Combinations to test:
- Balkesh B3 + Atomic
- Balkesh B3 + Bearing (We all know, but for the sake of concrete data gathering)
- Balkesh B3 + Eternal-S
- Balkesh B3 + Orbit
- Balkesh B3 + Revolve
- Balkesh B3 +
(I haven't been playing long enough to know what else should be tested and mostly grabbed this list of drivers from reading through other threads and the wiki)
Balkesh still doesn't burst even with bad drivers like impact and liner.
those drivers are bad not because of a weak spring, but because they just preform poorly.
if anything Revolve has the weakest spring. That and Iron.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - DreamBlade - Mar. 13, 2019
(Mar. 13, 2019 6:01 PM)MWF Wrote:What attack beyblade should I test it against z achillies?(Mar. 13, 2019 5:56 PM)DreamBlade Wrote: Balkesh still doesn't burst even with bad drivers like impact and liner.
those drivers are bad not because of a weak spring, but because they just preform poorly.
if anything Revolve has the weakest spring. That and Iron.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - MWF - Mar. 13, 2019
(Mar. 13, 2019 6:04 PM)DreamBlade Wrote:(Mar. 13, 2019 6:01 PM)MWF Wrote: those drivers are bad not because of a weak spring, but because they just preform poorly.What attack beyblade should I test it against z achillies?
if anything Revolve has the weakest spring. That and Iron.
Not sure how this applies to this thread. If you mean what attack combo to test against A4 on bearing. Don't, the first few turbo layers are basically dual layers.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - DreamBlade - Mar. 13, 2019
(Mar. 13, 2019 6:09 PM)MWF Wrote:I meant TT(Mar. 13, 2019 6:04 PM)DreamBlade Wrote: What attack beyblade should I test it against z achillies?
Not sure how this applies to this thread. If you mean what attack combo to test against A4 on bearing. Don't, the first few turbo layers are basically dual layers.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - MWF - Mar. 13, 2019
(Mar. 13, 2019 6:10 PM)DreamBlade Wrote:(Mar. 13, 2019 6:09 PM)MWF Wrote: Not sure how this applies to this thread. If you mean what attack combo to test against A4 on bearing. Don't, the first few turbo layers are basically dual layers.I meant TT
Then it is off topic. This is the wrong thread to ask that. zA is outclassed by the CZ-Awakening layers and most attack ChouZ layers so testing is not really necessary.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - DreamBlade - Mar. 13, 2019
(Mar. 13, 2019 6:13 PM)MWF Wrote:I meant because I want an attack layer to test the burst resistance of balkesh b3 0bump iron because it has less burst resistance. I tested it against spryzen Requiem(left spin) 7under xtend(Slingshock mode and halkesh was halfway. To bursting(Mar. 13, 2019 6:10 PM)DreamBlade Wrote: I meant TT
Then it is off topic. This is the wrong thread to ask that. zA is outclassed by the CZ-Awakening layers and most attack ChouZ layers so testing is not really necessary.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - ks123 - Mar. 13, 2019
(Mar. 13, 2019 6:20 PM)DreamBlade Wrote:(Mar. 13, 2019 6:13 PM)MWF Wrote: Then it is off topic. This is the wrong thread to ask that. zA is outclassed by the CZ-Awakening layers and most attack ChouZ layers so testing is not really necessary.I meant because I want an attack layer to test the burst resistance of balkesh b3 0bump iron because it has less burst resistance. I tested it against spryzen Requiem(left spin) 7under xtend(Slingshock mode and halkesh was halfway. To bursting
If you want test, find part test thread in Beyblade Customization forum and post test results to there. After this, you can post here link with test results (if you test Br) and give your opinion and justify this with test results. Please don't come off-topic. This is Bearing ban discussion thread. Thanks.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - DreamBlade - Mar. 13, 2019
(Mar. 13, 2019 6:24 PM)ks123 Wrote:Alright thanks but think about it. It's not bearing itself it's the layer. Balkesh is literally unburstable. Those green tabs that move when your about to burst are like burst stoppers. Just saying. I'll do 10 rounds.(Mar. 13, 2019 6:20 PM)DreamBlade Wrote: I meant because I want an attack layer to test the burst resistance of balkesh b3 0bump iron because it has less burst resistance. I tested it against spryzen Requiem(left spin) 7under xtend(Slingshock mode and halkesh was halfway. To bursting
If you want test, find part test thread in Beyblade Customization forum and post test results to there. After this, you can post here link with test results (if you test Br) and give your opinion and justify this with test results. Please don't come off-topic. This is Bearing ban discussion thread. Thanks.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - bladekid - Mar. 13, 2019
(Mar. 13, 2019 5:36 PM)EmrysTal Wrote: Just wanna give a thanks to everyone who already has or will be contributing test data to this discussion. Your time and efforts are greatly appreciated.Im doing these tests right now, they should be up sometime
From catching up on the comments since yesterday, I think bladekid's test results and comments have distilled this discussion into 2 test cases:
Test case 1
Objective: Test that H.Bearing does not create unburstable combinations with layers outside of an outlier.
--Thank you bladekid for your test results. Can anyone corroborate his results through running the same tests?
--Do we need to test more layers to get a more comprehensive understanding of H.Bearing?
Test case 2
Objective: Test the level of Balkesh B3's Burst resistance with various Hasbro performance tips.
--Combinations to test:
- Balkesh B3 + Atomic
- Balkesh B3 + Bearing (We all know, but for the sake of concrete data gathering)
- Balkesh B3 + Eternal-S
- Balkesh B3 + Orbit
- Balkesh B3 + Revolve
- Balkesh B3 +
(I haven't been playing long enough to know what else should be tested and mostly grabbed this list of drivers from reading through other threads and the wiki)
Ok, so I have finished the B3 tests, and the results were as I suspected: no bursts. I did 2 tests with each driver, one with a stationery attack L3, and one with a mobile attack L3. Hope this helps with the decisions you guys make regarding the Br/B3 ban.
Test 1:
L3.C.X VS B3.0B.At (B3 launched first, ties redone)
B3 Win Rate: 90% (OS: 9, KO: 0, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 10% (OS: 0, KO: 1, BST: 0)
Test 2:
L3.C.Fr-S(BR) VS B3.0B.At (B3 launched first, ties redone)
B3 Win Rate: 100% (OS: 10, KO: 0, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 0% (OS: 0, KO: 0, BST: 0)
Test 3:
L3.C.X VS B3.0B.Br (B3 launched first, ties redone)
B3 Win Rate: 80% (OS: 8, KO: 0, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 20% (OS: 0, KO: 2, BST: 0)
Test 4:
L3.C.Fr-S(BR) VS B3.0B.Br (B3 launched first, ties redone)
B3 Win Rate: 100% (OS: 10, KO: 0, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 0% (OS: 0, KO: 0, BST: 0)
Test 5:
L3.C.X VS B3.0.Et-S(BR) (B3 launched first, ties redone)
B3 Win Rate: 80% (OS: 8, KO: 0, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 20% (OS: 0, KO: 2, BST: 0)
Test 6:
L3.C.Fr-S(BR) VS B3.0.Et-S(BR) (B3 launched first, ties redone)
B3 Win Rate: 100% (OS: 10, KO: 0, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 0% (OS: 0, KO: 0, BST: 0)
Test 7:
L3.C.X VS B3.0B.O (B3 launched first, ties redone)
B3 Win Rate: 100% (OS: 10, KO: 0, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 0% (OS: 0, KO: 0, BST: 0)
Test 8:
L3.C.Fr-S(BR) VS B3.0B.O (B3 launched first, ties redone)
B3 Win Rate: 100% (OS: 10, KO: 0, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 0% (OS: 0, KO: 0, BST: 0)
Test 9:
L3.C.X VS B3.0B.R (B3 launched first, ties redone)
B3 Win Rate: 70% (OS: 7, KO: 0, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 30% (OS: 0, KO: 3, BST: 0)
Test 10:
L3.C.Fr-S(BR) VS B3.0B.R (B3 launched first, ties redone)
B3 Win Rate: 100% (OS: 10, KO: 0, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 0% (OS: 0, KO: 0, BST: 0)
Test 11:
L3.C.X VS B3.0B.Xt-S(BR) (B3 launched first, ties redone)
B3 Win Rate: 90% (OS: 9, KO: 0, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 10% (OS: 0, KO: 1, BST: 0)
Test 12 :
L3.C.Fr-S(BR) VS B3.0B.Xt-S(BR) (B3 launched first, ties redone)
B3 Win Rate: 90% (OS: 9, KO: 0, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 10% (OS: 0, KO: 1, BST: 0)
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - Kei - Jun. 03, 2019
Has anyone's feelings towards a potential ban of Hasbro's Bearing changed since March? Here are some recent winning combinations lists:
(Mar. 17, 2019 9:34 AM)Shindog Wrote: Los Angeles Tournament: From Z to GT
Alhambra, CA, USA
March 16, 2019
Burst Standard Format
...
3rd Place: Shindog
(Level Chip) Perfect Phoenix 0 Cross Xtend plus
(Level Chip) Hell Salamander 0 Cross Xtend plus
Balkesh B3 OO Wall Bearing (deck format only)
Hell Salamander 10 Proof Atomic (deck format only)
Crash Ragnarok 7 Proof Destroy Dash (deck format only)
(Apr. 12, 2019 11:08 PM)The Supreme One Wrote: How to Train Your GT Dragon
...
2nd Place - The Supreme One
Crash Ragnaruk 7C Ds'
Crash Ragnaruk 0P Ds' (Deck Format Only)
LC Hell Salamander 00C Xt+
Balkesh B3 7L Br (Deck Format Only)
...
Winning Combos for The Lunior Cup (Hosted by AirKnightMare)
...
2nd Place - DeceasedCrab
Balkesh B3 10L Br
LC Hell Salamander (Attack Mode) 10C At
Balkesh B3 0L Br
(Apr. 29, 2019 2:25 AM)Mage Wrote: Bey Area Gachi Endgame Right Here!
...
2nd Place: @[Keyuushblader]
Balkesh B3.7Turn.Bearing
3rd Place: @[Hamiltonian]
Spryzen Reqiuem S3.4Glaive.Atomic
Balkesh B3.0Bump.Bearing
Nightmare Luinor L3.Meteor.Destroy
(Apr. 29, 2019 9:27 PM)JoJo [Jp0t] Wrote: "Avenge the Fallen"
Los Angeles, CA 4/27/2019
Burst Standard
1st Place Shindog
LC Perfect Phoenix 00 Cross Xtend+
Balkesh B3 0 Wall Bearing
Hell Salamander Sting Atomic
Orb Egis 0 Bump Orbit
(May. 26, 2019 11:59 PM)Wombat Wrote: Beigoma Blues
Philadelphia, PA, USA | May 25 2019 | BST Standard Format
1st Place: RED NINJA 0829
Perfect Phoenix 00Cross Xtend+
LC Hell Salamander 00Cross Xtend+
Balkesh B3 00Wall Bearing
Hell Salamander 00Lift Bearing (Deck Format Finals Only)
Perfect Phoenix 0Cross Xtend+ (Deck Format Finals Only)
Orb Egis 10Proof Atomic (Deck Format Finals Only)
Orb Egis Sting Atomic (Deck Format Finals Only)
2nd Place: Ardmore Bladers
Perfect Phoenix 00Cross Xtend+
Balkesh B3 00Wall Bearing
Perfect Phoenix Ωuter Xtend+ (Deck Format Finals Only)
Dead Hades 10Star Xtreme' (Deck Format Finals Only)
3rd Place: RaitonXDBlader
Balkesh B3 0Bump Bearing
Hell Salamander 7Glaive Xtend+
Orb Egis 10Cross Atomic (Deck Format Finals Only)
Hell Salamander 7Meteor Destroy (Deck Format Finals Only)
Archer Hercules 0Wall Bearing (Deck Format Finals Only)
Balkesh B3 0Wall Bearing (Deck Format Finals Only)
It is seeing use not only in the Final Stage, but in the First Stage as well where I feel it is particularly overpowered due to its essential circumvention of the 2 Point Burst.
We decided to let this issue sit for a while and observe what–if any–impact it would make on the metagame, and it seems clear to me that it has made a significant impact since then.
For those of you that have used it in the above winning combinations lists, can you explain why you chose to use it?
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - CitrusNinja3 - Jun. 03, 2019
Almost nothing can Burst Balkesh B3 on Bearing. Maybe nL/L3 can, but I haven't been able to test it. B3 on Bearing is becoming way too much of a threat and can only really be defeated by using a Left-Spin heavy combo that's on Bearing or Eternal. Even then, it has to squeeze out every ounce of its Stamina to outsoin B3.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - OldSchool™ - Jun. 03, 2019
The combo is the issue, not bearing itself. Bearing can still be helpful in other Hasbro combo's.
Ban Balkesh instead and see what happens to bearing.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - bladekid - Jun. 03, 2019
(Jun. 03, 2019 9:24 PM)OldSchool™ Wrote: The combo is the issue, not bearing itself. Bearing can still be helpful in other Hasbro combo's.T H A N K Y O U ! I've already done the tests that prove that B3 is the problem and not Br. And sure, Hasbro Br is on the winning combo list, but it's pretty much only with B3. No I don't think it's bad when separate from balkesh, it's just not over powered. Also, we better see a ban on pP before Hasbro Br even comes into consideration for a potential ban. Not to mention aH and hS still being banable imo. Also Xt+. Plus, Imo, I think Hasbro Br is healthy for the metagame because besides B3 (only bursts), everything Hasbro on Br is considerably weak to attack, so it promotes attack being used to take out Hasbro beys. As I've been saying, B3 is the problem, so ban it if you want, but don't ban Br.
Ban Balkesh instead and see what happens to bearing.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - CitrusNinja3 - Jun. 03, 2019
(Jun. 03, 2019 9:24 PM)OldSchool™ Wrote: The combo is the issue, not bearing itself. Bearing can still be helpful in other Hasbro combo's.
Ban Balkesh instead and see what happens to bearing.
I think that some tournaments should ban Hasbro Bearing while others should ban B3. Some Bladers like KJ do pretty well in tournaments despite only using parts released by Hasbro, so Bearing isn't the only thing going for them.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - EmrysTal - Jun. 03, 2019
(Jun. 03, 2019 9:36 PM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote:(Jun. 03, 2019 9:24 PM)OldSchool™ Wrote: The combo is the issue, not bearing itself. Bearing can still be helpful in other Hasbro combo's.
Ban Balkesh instead and see what happens to bearing.
I think that some tournaments should ban Hasbro Bearing while others should ban B3. Some Bladers like KJ do pretty well in tournaments despite only using parts released by Hasbro, so Bearing isn't the only thing going for them.
I say just ban the combo of B3 and Bearing. If people have results that B3+
I am a proponent of leaving all parts in circulation for those who have limited access to parts but cutting out the more problematic combos.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - CitrusNinja3 - Jun. 03, 2019
(Jun. 03, 2019 10:48 PM)EmrysTal Wrote:(Jun. 03, 2019 9:36 PM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: I think that some tournaments should ban Hasbro Bearing while others should ban B3. Some Bladers like KJ do pretty well in tournaments despite only using parts released by Hasbro, so Bearing isn't the only thing going for them.
I say just ban the combo of B3 and Bearing. If people have results that B3+create the same winning unburstable situation as B3/Br, add that driver to B3's restricted combos list. There's will definitely be a comfortable level that B3 can fall down to without having to permanently remove a part from play. Thinking ahead for example, the same logic could be applied to the Judgement Layer base in the future if we find there's a combination of Judgement + Disc that results in an unburstable combo.
I am a proponent of leaving all parts in circulation for those who have limited access to parts but cutting out the more problematic combos.
I believe that something like that hasn't been done in a while, but it would sure be interesting to see if a combo limitation would help balance things out.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - EmrysTal - Jun. 03, 2019
I feel like instituting combo limitations is a perfect way to remove problematic outliers as well as spur players to try out new combos.
I've been seeing people commenting that Burst Standard has stagnated. This is a topic for a separate conversation but by using a B3 combo restriction list as a precedent, we could add some overused combinations to the list to shake up the format every 6 months or whatever. While B3/Br will most likely never come off the list, the others could rotate in and out. Just some food for thought.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - DeceasedCrab - Jun. 04, 2019
Feelings don't matter for bans; facts do. And the facts don't support what you want.
I could cherrypick the same sort of pattern from winning combos with Hell Salamander Xt+/At/Br and Perfect Phoenix Xt+/At/Br, but there's no reason to point that to people who won't listen. Yes, Balkesh with Bearing is good; that's why it appears in the winning combos, and that's the only thing you've proven. It's very beatable and you know it. It's way more beatable than Perfect Phoenix. Burst Standard has a stagnant and boring meta. Why cut the number of viable layers down from 4 to 3, and make it stagnate even more?
In the past few months you haven't run any Standard tournaments where Balkesh B3 is banned or where Hasbro bearing is banned. Nothing has changed; show the work before you start on this again. You tried Classic tournaments with all dash drivers; you could easily institute per-tournament bans for either B3, Hasbro Bearing, or the combination of both. You don't, but you could.
I used B3 a few times back in February. But I also used a lot of Hell Salamander back in February. It was a decent counter to the surprising amount of ChoZ V at the time, and has fairly good all around defenses. But it can and does lose. It can lose to ChoZ Spriggan. it can lose to Crush Ragnaruk. It'll lose to Judgement Joker. It loses to Hell Salamander. It can lose to Perfect Phoenix. It can even lose to Archer Hercules.
Will it burst? No. Extremely rarely. Will Perfect Phoenix? Rarely. Will any defense type burst? Not as much.
You're trying to solve the wrong problem. But you do you.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - Shindog - Jun. 04, 2019
I have started testing TT bearing with Gen (幻). It pretty much doesn’t burst. As a matter of fact WF.OOW.Br幻 bursted B3.OOW.Br a couple of times out of 16ish rounds.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - Kei - Jun. 04, 2019
Thanks for the feedback everyone! It's a complex issue that raises a lot of questions about how competitive play should be handled, what is fair, what some people have experienced versus what others haven't, and more.
For instance, I don't find pP as scary as a lot of people seem to find it. Anecdotally, I can even add that at BEYBLADE NORTH 2019 last week it was bursted multiple times by 超A, KOed by 超V multiple times (for third place!) ... But that's Beyblade; there's so many variables to be considered and I think it is important to remain open-minded and try to consider how things are on average. Those examples could have been freak accidents, or maybe they are indicative of something more objective about how those parts perform against pP.
I'm leaning more towards wanting to remove B3 and/or Bearing or something along those lines, but my feelings are also not set in stone, which is why I posed the question here with new data the community has gathered over the past few months. I understand that my experiences and opinion are not absolute. I just want to see how other people interpret it based on their experiences.
There's also other ways to approach this such as the removal of the 2 Point Burst in First Stage, but that creates other issues which I personally believe would be detrimental for Organized Play (as it relates to incentive for using attack types, making stamina even safer, the Final Stage with 2 Point Bursts still having to contend with an unburstable combo). But it's a divisive issue and I know there's other people who would be fine with removing it.
(Jun. 04, 2019 12:57 AM)Shindog Wrote: I have started testing TT bearing with Gen (幻). It pretty much doesn’t burst. As a matter of fact WF.OOW.Br幻 bursted B3.OOW.Br a couple of times out of 16ish rounds.
Wow, really? Although, I guess the 幻 Weight is going too be another interesting discussion for us to all have as more people start to get and experiment with it haha.
RE: Ban Hasbro Bearing? - CitrusNinja3 - Jun. 04, 2019
(Jun. 04, 2019 12:21 AM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: Feelings don't matter for bans; facts do. And the facts don't support what you want.
I could cherrypick the same sort of pattern from winning combos with Hell Salamander Xt+/At/Br and Perfect Phoenix Xt+/At/Br, but there's no reason to point that to people who won't listen. Yes, Balkesh with Bearing is good; that's why it appears in the winning combos, and that's the only thing you've proven. It's very beatable and you know it. It's way more beatable than Perfect Phoenix. Burst Standard has a stagnant and boring meta. Why cut the number of viable layers down from 4 to 3, and make it stagnate even more?
In the past few months you haven't run any Standard tournaments where Balkesh B3 is banned or where Hasbro bearing is banned. Nothing has changed; show the work before you start on this again. You tried Classic tournaments with all dash drivers; you could easily institute per-tournament bans for either B3, Hasbro Bearing, or the combination of both. You don't, but you could.
I used B3 a few times back in February. But I also used a lot of Hell Salamander back in February. It was a decent counter to the surprising amount of ChoZ V at the time, and has fairly good all around defenses. But it can and does lose. It can lose to ChoZ Spriggan. it can lose to Crush Ragnaruk. It'll lose to Judgement Joker. It loses to Hell Salamander. It can lose to Perfect Phoenix. It can even lose to Archer Hercules.
Will it burst? No. Extremely rarely. Will Perfect Phoenix? Rarely. Will any defense type burst? Not as much.
You're trying to solve the wrong problem. But you do you.
I'm not disagreeing with the fact that B3 is beatable, but you can't compare it to Perfect Phoenix or even Hell Salamander. pP can burst easily to the hands of Cho-Z Achilles and hS can be defeated by a dedicated Left-Spin Attack Type. Balkesh on the other hand, can't be outspun by a Right-Spin Bey without the Wall Frame and Bearing Driver. It's already unlikely that a Right-Spin Bey will be seen with Bearing, so that's almost completely out of the equation. I have noticed that Cho-Z Spriggan Sting Bearing (which loses many same-spin matchups) can outspin B3.0B.Br, but it could result in long matches that go by one point at a time. Even dedicated Left-Spin Attackers have a really tough time getting B3 halfway to Burst, so Deck Format battles will be a pain to go through. Overall, I know B3 on Bearing is beatable, but it's becoming more and more of a nuisance that people don't expect to go up against unless they already know their opponent from previous battles.