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+--- Thread: Where is this game going? (/Thread-Where-is-this-game-going)
RE: Where is this game going? - Uwik - Dec. 24, 2011
I can foresee cuts and bruises in the future from picking up 62 grams Diablo on an RF
Anyway, I agree with Galaxy in a sense that nowadays this game is about the evolution of weight. I think it's only a matter of time that TAKARA-TOMY should start thinking safety issues and limiting parts usage, should it progress in this direction.
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Dec. 24, 2011
(Dec. 23, 2011 10:03 PM)Galaxy Wrote: you're thinking as all of us are at the same level with the same knowledge and the same skills.
Completely uncorrect.
The game is going towards an evolution of weight,that makes the oldest and newest components outclassed IF you have the right skills.
Not at all.
Maybe anyone can remember my video about skill
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMito4_ZFvs)
But this is different, while considering i can be better than my opponent,
I MUST NOT consider my opponent someone who's not competitive.
Let me bring an example, time ago, I did some test with Pasty89.
the results were that, even when switching combos, i was winning almost every match (we ended up like she won 3 and i won 27)
Still, Pasty89 is able to play competitively, she already placed in top 2 in a tourney where our best players (ispanico, vigno and others) also played.
NOW, she has a phantom, and i have an earth. guess how many times i will win.
While you have to consider the skill difference, there is a limit to skill prevail.
Especially if your opponent is at least knowing what he's doing.
Comparing a storm to a vari is almost like comparing a hms with a mfb
RE: Where is this game going? - Jaygrazer - Dec. 24, 2011
so basically the meta game is now a balance between skill and combo?
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Dec. 24, 2011
I believe that combos do influence the game way more than they did in the past.
RE: Where is this game going? - th!nk - Dec. 24, 2011
Very good point on the Storm/Vari HMS/MFB. With parts of the maximum series onwards (basalt, BD145, 230, hell), things basically became a completely different game. Look at the tier list, every wheel is from that point onwards.
It's why I supported (and still support) the idea of a second format without these super-powered parts so strongly. I don't think (this is solely my opinion and others will disagree), given the number of "overpowered" parts, any particular intervention we could perform by banning part(s) would leave a stable enough metagame, unless we went overboard and basically made that proposed second format the only format.
RE: Where is this game going? - Galaxy - Dec. 24, 2011
(Dec. 24, 2011 7:39 AM)Yamislayer Wrote:Stupid considerations.(Dec. 23, 2011 10:03 PM)Galaxy Wrote: you're thinking as all of us are at the same level with the same knowledge and the same skills.
Completely uncorrect.
The game is going towards an evolution of weight,that makes the oldest and newest components outclassed IF you have the right skills.
Not at all.
Maybe anyone can remember my video about skill
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMito4_ZFvs)
But this is different, while considering i can be better than my opponent,
I MUST NOT consider my opponent someone who's not competitive.
Let me bring an example, time ago, I did some test with Pasty89.
the results were that, even when switching combos, i was winning almost every match (we ended up like she won 3 and i won 27)
Still, Pasty89 is able to play competitively, she already placed in top 2 in a tourney where our best players (ispanico, vigno and others) also played.
NOW, she has a phantom, and i have an earth. guess how many times i will win.
While you have to consider the skill difference, there is a limit to skill prevail.
Especially if your opponent is at least knowing what he's doing.
Comparing a storm to a vari is almost like comparing a hms with a mfb
You mustn't think that your opponent is not competitive, i was not saying that, but if your opponent is competitive isn't his fault, but to win you need to be better of him,and with same components, you'll be better of him with skills.
Then,Phantom vs Earth is something like Earth vs Libra in the past,but you've never complained about this match because Libra was banned.
You've written an example were skills are not necessary in the match.
So, to be happy, do you want that Phantom\Schyte\etc will be banned as Libra was?
Try to shoot Earth at the centre of the stadium and a Variares that runs around it without touching it,like a n00b. Skills are important,and if your opponent is a skilled player isn't his fault.
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Dec. 24, 2011
You didn't get the point.
"to win you need to be better of him,and with same components, you'll be better of him with skills.";
What I'm saying is that time ago you could delete the "same components" part.
(an example can be: you could deal with a vulcan while using a rock, if skilled enough)
But now, the same components part is really needed, and looking at what TT is producing, that scares me.
also not relevant to the thread:
FUN FACT:
an earth at the center of the stadium, (unless it is BD145/230 and rubber bottom) is still in danger against a vari shot like that, lol
RE: Where is this game going? - Janstarblast - Dec. 24, 2011
Galaxy- You are completely correct with what you said before, but as Yamislayer said, there is an extent to which skill can prevail.
As for Libra being banned, there were different reasons for it. There was the weight issue, but it was also quite unsafe(I do not remember how, though)...
I've seen a VariAres CH120RF lose to an Earth Eagle 100WD. Skill is important, but in conditions where it can prevail.
What if I just don't use an attacker against Earth Eagle, and instead use a superior Stamina wheel (Phantom/Duo)? Actually, the use of Earth as an example is pointless... The attackers from every era managed to take it down... Why? The Defense/Stamina Tier was WEAK. Skill was needed only with the use of attackers. And what was that Skill? Getting a good Flower Pattern; something which was a cakewalk then.
Dependence on Tier is more than on Skill.
If you have the good parts, only then can you be skillful with them. Knowing your opponent is important too, as Kei mentioned. You can't fight a war against someone using nuclear weapons with a sword in your hand.
The main question is, Why do you need to know your opponent?
The answer is, so that you can tackle him/her effectively.
Now, what all do you need to know?
The combo being used, and the skill with which its used. Knowing just one of these is hazardous. For example, you are using Basalt, he uses VariAres, but he doesn't know how to use it. He is skilled but uses a Quetz 90RF...
Tbh, Skill is only where there is attack, and in some cases, Defense(thanks to the varying conditions of CS).
Picture this-
You are an experienced Fire Fighter. You are extremely skilled. Now, you have to douse a whole building on fire. You can't use a Fire Extinguisher, you need to use the water hose in your Fire Truck. This was probably an example which had no scope for the hidden factor in BeyMatches- 'Luck', so it might be pointless.
In today's game, the problems are bigger. One has to deal with more dangerous threats. As I said, consider Skill only when there is an Attack type in the match. As I said, putting up Earth as an example for this is pointless to bring back the Tier vs. Skill thingy, and make it a basis for comparison of old parts vs new ones. If one really wants to do it, set Basalt as an example.
There is no Skill involved in using it. Your Victory/Loss depends on the Skill and Tier of the opponent if he is using an Attack Type, and only Tier if Defense/Stamina is being used, provided its not a mirror match.
What kind of opponent you are facing is important. If you are not facing a big fire, you can use a Fire Extinguisher after all.
I mean, Skill is necessary. Skill is largely prevalent only when attackers are used. Its been said already, that attackers are underused these days. Its just Defense/Stamina. This means there is negligible amount of Skill involved(I do not consider Deception Tactics to be 'skill' as those tactics are to fool the opponent, and use a more powerful bey than expected, which means- a tricky use of Tier), and there is just Tier.
No wonder Yami's previous thread about a Second Format has some relation to this.
RE: Where is this game going? - Galaxy - Dec. 24, 2011
(Dec. 24, 2011 10:07 AM)Yamislayer Wrote: You didn't get the point.
"to win you need to be better of him,and with same components, you'll be better of him with skills.";
What I'm saying is that time ago you could delete the "same components" part.
(an example can be: you could deal with a vulcan while using a rock, if skilled enough)
But now, the same components part is really needed, and looking at what TT is producing, that scares me.
also not relevant to the thread:
FUN FACT:
an earth at the center of the stadium, (unless it is BD145/230 and rubber bottom) is still in danger against a vari shot like that, lol
I've the impression that you're switching the point as you want.
First we were talking about skills,now we're talking that you're afraid about the new releases. I've read an exemple where you named the HMS,well: have you ever played a Draciel MS against Dragoon MSUV?
If yes,i don't know why you're scared now.
The evolution can be considered the same. Now pieces are heaviest than before,and i don't understand why don't you like the fact that now the situation is the same than before with different weights.
And,here in Italy,you know better than me,that finals, in the first period of the game, were only between LDrago,Gravity,Vulcan and RFs at 99% of our tournaments. So if your desire was to arrive in finals you had to play that parts. Now if you play Phantom,Schyte,Vari,Basalt,etc.. you can arrive in final. Why you're unhappy? Do you want to play old parts?
With evolution is normal that old is outclassed by new,or it will be involution.
FUN FACT: is in danger,but a lot of other combos are in danger in other situations. If you don't want that your opponent will be only in danger,your next step is to have your own strategies and skills.
FUN FACT 2: Uh, Polta can't win against Driger V2! TT produces evolved Beys from the "Plastic era",what a terrible situation! I don't love Beyblade for this!!!!
RE: Where is this game going? - Janstarblast - Dec. 24, 2011
Quote: Do you want to play old partsWell Galaxy, that's probably the point of the thread.
There's more to it.
Remember, I am not talking about the Italian meta in this post.
Before, almost everything that was released was useful to some extent.
Things just slightly outclassed each other, they didn't thrash them down the Tier List like today.
Now, every new release brings a part which can easily defeat the existing ones.
Hence, there is no scope for the choice of parts.
You have to get that 'new part' to win...
I stated before, that we wished for new parts, so that we get more variety(this is post-Maximum Series, and pre-4D phase), and get just 'something' which could effectively counter Basalt.
We got many new parts, in your words, there was 'evolution'.
But, it was too rapid, and at the same time, it was dominating.
Once the new part arrived, it dominated.
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Dec. 24, 2011
Galaxy, You just made me win 10 bucks for a bet, lmao.
Anyway, how long did it take, from the first pegasis, to the maximum series to be produced?
Cause weights were at least somehow balanced.
With the maximum series and then the 4d series, they created thingss like 10 grams of difference.
Also, send me a pm about the Draciel MS against Dragoon MSUV fact, i have some question about that but that's not relevant to this thread.
about the skill and parts: i was trying to link both things and compare this link to the past.
Basicly, the idea is:
You haven't got the last releases? Can you be competitive? Time ago, you could. Now, you can't.
Skill difference really came in handy time ago when you had to face a combo which was advantaged against yours, now it will surely help, but difference between parts is huge at it will sound more like mission impossble than tough work.
RE: Where is this game going? - Galaxy - Dec. 24, 2011
(Dec. 24, 2011 3:11 PM)Yamislayer Wrote: Galaxy, You just made me win 10 bucks for a bet, lmao.I'm happy for you!
Anyway, how long did it take, from the first pegasis, to the maximum series to be produced?
Cause weights were at least somehow balanced.
With the maximum series and then the 4d series, they created thingss like 10 grams of difference.
Also, send me a pm about the Draciel MS against Dragoon MSUV fact, i have some question about that but that's not relevant to this thread.
about the skill and parts: i was trying to link both things and compare this link to the past.
Basicly, the idea is:
You haven't got the last releases? Can you be competitive? Time ago, you could. Now, you can't.
Skill difference really came in handy time ago when you had to face a combo which was advantaged against yours, now it will surely help, but difference between parts is huge at it will sound more like mission impossble than tough work.
Why with the release of 85 and 90 and 100,all have said 105 is outclassed and why you didn't open a tragic Thread like this?
Only when MWs became old we need to say that the play is going in a tragic way?
Why do you still play RF\CS\R2F? Aren't old parts that help you to win?
As i said a Polta can defeat a Driger V2,and you in past, in MF era, could be competitive because there were less than 10 different MWs,now we don't have it.
If you don't like that pieces are different and solutions are different, i don't want to know what you think about Plastics....
I can be competitive with Basalt 230 CS,and are all "old parts" if we want to consider the velocity with TT released the Beys. So i don't see your problems!
Is your drama that Rock can't defeat Basalt,Phantom,Death, and Variares...?
Are you serious?
RE: Where is this game going? - Spin-Sonic - Dec. 24, 2011
(Dec. 24, 2011 3:11 PM)Yamislayer Wrote: You haven't got the last releases? Can you be competitive? Time ago, you could. Now, you can't.
Skill difference really came in handy time ago when you had to face a combo which was advantaged against yours, now it will surely help, but difference between parts is huge at it will sound more like mission impossble than tough work.
I'm going to have to disagree here buddy. This definitely isn't true. Even when the latest 4D beyblades at the time like L Drago Destroy and Beat Lynx were out, I still went a full tournament of over 30 people and used Rock Cancer 125SF the entire tournament and got 4th place which isn't bad considering what I used and what was out at the time. People used Hell Kerbecs BD145WD, Beat Lynx attackers and Gravity Perseus BD145 variants , Basalt BD145 variants and even the 230 combos and I beat them with skill. Just altering my launches did it just fine and it even outspun a lot of the stamina types. The only people I lost to were The Problem who used Basalt 230WD which I lost 3-2 in very close matches and lost my literally 2 rotations, and Bluezee who used LLD BD145LRF and beat me 3-0 but that was fine.
Of course I would no longer use that against a Vari now because I would make myself too vulnerable to its brute force and ability to expose Rock's recoil points but still, It was not tough work or a mission impossible then. Why would it be now?
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Dec. 24, 2011
Hmm, maybe your skill and others have a really huge difference? It really souned weird, but it even me really curious.
RE: Where is this game going? - Galaxy - Dec. 24, 2011
(Dec. 24, 2011 3:38 PM)Yamislayer Wrote: Hmm, maybe your skill and others have a really huge difference? It really souned weird, but it even me really curious.
Uhm,now skills between player do the difference?
Where is the point that even with skills the old releases are useless?
Now as i said, a Variares with the worst shoot ever thought is useless against an Earth Aquila well played!
I think your point is different each post!
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Dec. 24, 2011
there's something wrong with this, I'll try to explain.
"Variares with the worst shoot ever thought is useless against an Earth Aquila well played!"
I agree, but will you rely on your opponent shooting in the worst possible manner when playing a tournament?
sent you a pm cause i'm not sure we're understanding each other.
RE: Where is this game going? - Galaxy - Dec. 24, 2011
(Dec. 24, 2011 4:27 PM)Yamislayer Wrote: there's something wrong with this, I'll try to explain.
"Variares with the worst shoot ever thought is useless against an Earth Aquila well played!"
I agree, but will you rely on your opponent shooting in the worst possible manner when playing a tournament?
sent you a pm cause i'm not sure we're understanding each other.
You can play a tournament with\without skills,there's no link between "skilled player can host a tournament, n00b player can't host a tournament"!
So, if i'm a good player i won't think only at my combo,but i will see also my opponents' stretgies and the shooting techniques and for this reason, yes, in my opinion i can rely on my opponent weaknesses if he have them!
Ah,ok!
RE: Where is this game going? - Janstarblast - Dec. 24, 2011
Spin-Sonic-
But yes, what you did, is a commendable job.
Beating Beat BD145 and Gravity BD145 might have been easy as BD145 ain't an attack track, but doing it on a 125 track is also shocking.
Hell BD145WD was always easy to KO, so I would probably ignore that.
At the same time, there might be other conditions affecting the matches; most importantly, the condition of CS used with Basalt combos. Also, a newer Basalt is easier to beat than an old one. And also, pure luck. Then again, luck won't be with you every time...
Your skill is certainly commendable, I never say you are bad.
I've never heard of someone use a destabilizing combo so boldly.
Then again, getting a BD145 destabilized, is the end of it.
Destabilize --> ScrapeScrapeScrape...
Yami- I agree. But that's probably not what Galaxy means to say.
See, the point of this thread is that one cannot keep on getting new parts.
Now, the situation is that a person is forced to use his Earth, as he lacks better parts. No one would act bold enough to keep a Phantom/Basalt in the box and go on with an Earth.
Now, underestimating your VariAres-equipped opponent is meh.... :\
So, you'll give your best shot! While if the VariAres user mis-launches, its your day!
I am telling you, I've seen VariAres lose to an Earth Aquila in the finals of a tournament...
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Dec. 24, 2011
once again, I agree with the fact that if you see a weakness in your opponent you can (i'd say even you have to) rely on that to win. but again it's not what I'm trying to say. answer the pm, we speak the same language so that will hopefully help.
RE: Where is this game going? - Galaxy - Dec. 24, 2011
(Dec. 24, 2011 4:45 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: Spin-Sonic-The bolded sentence produce in me a super super super super LOL! xD
But yes, what you did, is a commendable job.
Beating Beat BD145 and Gravity BD145 might have been easy as BD145 ain't an attack track, but doing it on a 125 track is also shocking.
Hell BD145WD was always easy to KO, so I would probably ignore that.
At the same time, there might be other conditions affecting the matches; most importantly, the condition of CS used with Basalt combos. Also, a newer Basalt is easier to beat than an old one. And also, pure luck. Then again, luck won't be with you every time...
Your skill is certainly commendable, I never say you are bad.
I've never heard of someone use a destabilizing combo so boldly.
Then again, getting a BD145 destabilized, is the end of it.
Destabilize --> ScrapeScrapeScrape...
Yami- I agree. But that's probably not what Galaxy means to say.
See, the point of this thread is that one cannot keep on getting new parts.
Now, the situation is that a person is forced to use his Earth, as he lacks better parts. No one would act bold enough to keep a Phantom/Basalt in the box and go on with an Earth.
Now, underestimating your VariAres-equipped opponent is meh.... :\
So, you'll give your best shot! While if the VariAres user mis-launches, its your day!
I am telling you, I've seen VariAres lose to an Earth Aquila in the finals of a tournament...
Replying seriously, you are not forced to have new components, Basalt 230 and CS makes you competitive if you have skills and are old components.
But if you want to see this point of wiew... well,talking about Italians' tournament,also when the MWs released were Earth,Rock,Lightning and Gravity, to win you were forced to buy a Gravity Perseus or Lightning with tons of RFs.
Maybe,in other places seeing that Defense and Stamina combos dominated tournaments, Earth or Burn were good to have chance to win,but this is another discussion and we're going OT!
Replied,but the concepts are the same i've explained here!
RE: Where is this game going? - Janstarblast - Dec. 24, 2011
But Galaxy, you do not need to have skills while using an Earth Aquila...
Just launch to the center of the stadium, and hope for the best. That's how an Earth Aquila is used...
The loss of VariAres was because the user of VariAres wasn't skilled enough(OK, I can't say that, as he actually cut past the tournament with VariAres quite comfortably). He was just unlucky....
So, one does need new parts to remain Competitive in today's game, provided your opponent has all the new ones. The tourney I attended, there was just this guy (owner of VariAres) who had 4D beys... All others used combos involving Earth, Burn, Hell, Lightning, Meteo, etc. So, I need not have new parts.
Also, owning new, better parts increases your confidence, and you know- "I at least have a chance to win this."
If you have older ones, however confident you may be, you still know that you may lose quite easily.
RE: Where is this game going? - Galaxy - Dec. 24, 2011
(Dec. 24, 2011 5:04 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: But Galaxy, you do not need to have skills while using an Earth Aquila...I don't agree about the fact the with Aquila you don't need skills. I have about 4-5 shoots on Defensive Beys,and each shoot give me different results.
Just launch to the center of the stadium, and hope for the best. That's how an Earth Aquila is used...
The loss of VariAres was because the user of VariAres wasn't skilled enough(OK, I can't say that, as he actually cut past the tournament with VariAres quite comfortably). He was just unlucky....
So, one does need new parts to remain Competitive in today's game, provided your opponent has all the new ones. The tourney I attended, there was just this guy (owner of VariAres) who had 4D beys... All others used combos involving Earth, Burn, Hell, Lightning, Meteo, etc. So, I need not have new parts.
Also, owning new, better parts increases your confidence, and you know- "I at least have a chance to win this."
If you have older ones, however confident you may be, you still know that you may lose quite easily.
To remeain competitive in each game you must have skills and news,i don't know any players of Magic,Yugi,Pokèmon,Mini4WD,etc that plays with starter packs of 10 years ago.
That's because i think it's absurd!
I agree on the last part,about the fact that you can be confident with old parts,but against good players with new components you will lose...but where is the news? It happens in all the games. Why now we don't accept it in Beyblade?
RE: Where is this game going? - Yamislayer - Dec. 24, 2011
(Dec. 24, 2011 5:20 PM)Galaxy Wrote: I don't agree about the fact the with Aquila you don't need skills. I have about 4-5 shoots on Defensive Beys,and each shoot give me different results.
To remeain competitive in each game you must have skills and news,i don't know any players of Magic,Yugi,Pokèmon,Mini4WD,etc that plays with starter packs of 10 years ago.
That's because i think it's absurd!
I agree on the last part,about the fact that you can be confident with old parts,but against good players with new components you will lose...but where is the news? It happens in all the games. Why now we don't accept it in Beyblade?
Hmm it's ot but:
Magic: they have 3 formats, cause OLD cards are TOO GOOD for newer, lol.
Pokemon: same thing, but old format is not so much played, even if old cards allowed you to do things like "discard hand, draw 7"
Yugioh: 2 formats, 1 has banned cards from the old sets for being too strong. But even the second one
has cards that are being played nowadays (mirror force, torrential tribute)
lol, it seems that cards created the OPPOSITE situation, now that you made me think to that.
And I agree about aquila, i used aquila in some tourneys time ago, just to make it more challenging.
RE: Where is this game going? - Janstarblast - Dec. 24, 2011
(Dec. 24, 2011 5:20 PM)Galaxy Wrote:(Dec. 24, 2011 5:04 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: But Galaxy, you do not need to have skills while using an Earth Aquila...I don't agree about the fact the with Aquila you don't need skills. I have about 4-5 shoots on Defensive Beys,and each shoot give me different results.
Just launch to the center of the stadium, and hope for the best. That's how an Earth Aquila is used...
The loss of VariAres was because the user of VariAres wasn't skilled enough(OK, I can't say that, as he actually cut past the tournament with VariAres quite comfortably). He was just unlucky....
So, one does need new parts to remain Competitive in today's game, provided your opponent has all the new ones. The tourney I attended, there was just this guy (owner of VariAres) who had 4D beys... All others used combos involving Earth, Burn, Hell, Lightning, Meteo, etc. So, I need not have new parts.
Also, owning new, better parts increases your confidence, and you know- "I at least have a chance to win this."
If you have older ones, however confident you may be, you still know that you may lose quite easily.
To remeain competitive in each game you must have skills and news,i don't know any players of Magic,Yugi,Pokèmon,Mini4WD,etc that plays with starter packs of 10 years ago.
That's because i think it's absurd!
I agree on the last part,about the fact that you can be confident with old parts,but against good players with new components you will lose...but where is the news? It happens in all the games. Why now we don't accept it in Beyblade?
True enough...
I was actually talking of an Earth Aquila Stamina combo. A standard LTSC- Earth Aquila 100WD.
As I stated in my previous posts in the same thread, the varying conditions of CS do make skill a requirement for the use of CS-based Defense combos.
And hence, you may get different results with every launch!
RE: Where is this game going? - Galaxy - Dec. 24, 2011
(Dec. 24, 2011 5:54 PM)Yamislayer Wrote:(Dec. 24, 2011 5:20 PM)Galaxy Wrote: I don't agree about the fact the with Aquila you don't need skills. I have about 4-5 shoots on Defensive Beys,and each shoot give me different results.
To remeain competitive in each game you must have skills and news,i don't know any players of Magic,Yugi,Pokèmon,Mini4WD,etc that plays with starter packs of 10 years ago.
That's because i think it's absurd!
I agree on the last part,about the fact that you can be confident with old parts,but against good players with new components you will lose...but where is the news? It happens in all the games. Why now we don't accept it in Beyblade?
Hmm it's ot but:
Magic: they have 3 formats, cause OLD cards are TOO GOOD for newer, lol.
Pokemon: same thing, but old format is not so much played, even if old cards allowed you to do things like "discard hand, draw 7"
Yugioh: 2 formats, 1 has banned cards from the old sets for being too strong. But even the second one
has cards that are being played nowadays (mirror force, torrential tribute)
lol, it seems that cards created the OPPOSITE situation, now that you made me think to that.
My point was: there's an evolution in all the games,now why,ignoring what happen for them because it's not interesting for this Thread,why this evolution is too bad for you?
You said me because it seems that all the past must be detroyed!
It's not true in my opinion,because you still play things like RF,R2F,CS,Bull,CH120 and so on for the new combos!
You say "and the MWs?". Well,it's a problem of this new style that i don't like from the start of the game: the error is in the fact that the new Beys have the Attack Ring of the Plastics' fused with the Weight Disks always of the Plastics'.
But this is a problem that starts from the origin of this new era,not now! For this reason,if you don't like the situation now, you shouldn't love the situation also before the Maximum Series,because what's happening now is a natural evolution of the basic project of this new series!
You can't do anything to dissociate this new idea\style in the original idea that allowed you to have more chance.
To Jan: trust me even with a starter Aquila you have different results changing your launch,and i was talking about a starter Aquila,so the "shoot at the centre and pray for yourself" is always uncorrect!