[PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations

[PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Printable Version

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RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - TimeOut - Dec. 08, 2015

As someone who's actually used this to my advantage in tournaments, it's powerful but nowhere near ban worthy.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Neo - Dec. 08, 2015

Smushing the parts together is worse then having more space for it to move around.
Anyone else want to offer an opinion on Dragon Saucer+Screw Zeus?

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Jinbee - Dec. 08, 2015

It seems like a bad design choice when not fitting but since they're still meant to be a compatible system, I guess it wouldn't be illegal and the Zeus breaking is their own problem. But that's my two cents.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Bey Brad - Dec. 08, 2015

I've never seen any evidence that all ARs and sub-ARs are actually meant to fit together, and, in this case, it's pretty clear that they aren't. Any customization that literally requires bending and physically forcing parts together in order for it to function should be illegal, IMO.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Jinbee - Dec. 08, 2015

(Dec. 08, 2015 7:07 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: I've never seen any evidence that all ARs and sub-ARs are actually meant to fit together, and, in this case, it's pretty clear that they aren't. Any customization that literally requires bending and physically forcing parts together in order for it to function should be illegal, IMO.

I think Zeus was a little more specific of a S-AR as it was the only one I remember being raised up. The rest seemed flat.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Neo - Dec. 08, 2015

Yes, Screw Zeus is the only AR like this. All of the others are flat.

(Dec. 08, 2015 7:07 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: I've never seen any evidence that all ARs and sub-ARs are actually meant to fit together, and, in this case, it's pretty clear that they aren't. Any customization that literally requires bending and physically forcing parts together in order for it to function should be illegal, IMO.

Dark Wing, Dragon Breaker, War Bear, Hasbro Twin Horn, Galman, and Great Dragon do not fit properly.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Dracomageat - Dec. 08, 2015

Galman's S-AR has slight ridges on it but yes, no S-AR is as shaped in the Z plane as Screw Zeus.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Jinbee - Dec. 08, 2015

(Dec. 08, 2015 7:34 PM)Dracomageat Wrote: Galman's S-AR has slight ridges on it but yes, no S-AR is as shaped in the Z plane as Screw Zeus.

Galmans at least fit underneath.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Neo - Dec. 08, 2015

Again, anyone with a Screw Zeus and Gaia Dragoon, please reply if you believe those two should be banned or not. Test it out; do you think it's too hard to assemble, or do you think it's a fine substitute that fits well together?
It's the last piece I believe we need to confirm. Seems Stoney and I are split on that combo, specificially.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Dracomageat - Dec. 09, 2015

S or V? I always thought V was too hard but then, I was a kid back then and nolonger have a Zeus so I can't entirely validate old me's opinion.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Neo - Dec. 09, 2015

My bad, I meant Dragon Saucer from G.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Neo - Dec. 11, 2015

Okay, I recieved Desert Sphinxer today;
@[~Stoney~] didn't you say this Attack Ring works with SZ? I can't fit it on in any way.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - ~Stoney~ - Dec. 11, 2015

(Dec. 11, 2015 1:22 AM)Neo Wrote: Okay, I recieved Desert Sphinxer today;
@[~Stoney~] didn't you say this Attack Ring works with SZ? I can't fit it on in any way.

Not the AR but the base LOL xD you can chnge that free spinning part in DS's base with SZ. But I remember also saying, that this basically works, but doesn't make any sense at all. Joyful_2

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Neo - Dec. 11, 2015

(Dec. 11, 2015 8:56 AM)~Stoney~ Wrote:
(Dec. 11, 2015 1:22 AM)Neo Wrote: Okay, I recieved Desert Sphinxer today;
@[~Stoney~] didn't you say this Attack Ring works with SZ? I can't fit it on in any way.

Not the AR but the base LOL xD you can chnge that free spinning part in DS's base with SZ. But I remember also saying, that this basically works, but doesn't make any sense at all.

What? Like putting the SAR under the CEW? That's illegal so... Yeah, DS is out of the question as well.
How do you stand on Gaia G? Still not up for that set up?

Functioning:
War Lion (Galeon Attacker)
Great Tiger (Guardian Driger)
Holy Dispell (Zeus)
Dragon Saucer (Gaia Dragoon G)

Non-Functioning:
Great Dragon (Gaia Dragoon)
Dragon Breaker (Gaia Dragoon V)
Twin Horn (Hasbro, White Gabriel G)
War Bear (Galzzly)
War Monkey (Galman)
Dark Wing (Dark Series)
??? (Desert Sphinxer)

And then there's the Gabriel/Battle Spec SG Free Wing Base. Do we just let it work with SZ, and have compact WDs only? Or just not worry about it, since no one in their right mind would even use that base?

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - *Ginga* - Dec. 13, 2015

How do you define Non-functioning vs functioning?

Also, can you test Zeus with Dragon Saucer or other ARs in comparison to Zeus with Dragon Breaker?

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Neo - Dec. 13, 2015

(Dec. 13, 2015 3:41 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: How do you define Non-functioning vs functioning?

Also, can you test Zeus with Dragon Saucer or other ARs in comparison to Zeus with Dragon Breaker?

Non-functioning doesn't fit.
Functioning fits.

I'm not going to put Dragon Breaker onto Screw Zeus. But sure, for DS+SZ.
Any certain combo you'd like to see it against?

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - *Ginga* - Dec. 13, 2015

You know Plastics better than I do, so I'll trust you haha. I just want to make sure we see similar results.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Neo - Dec. 13, 2015

(Dec. 13, 2015 7:55 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: You know Plastics better than I do, so I'll trust you haha. I just want to make sure we see similar results.

I guess this can dual as Hasbro Twin Horn tests.

Defense Zombie

Spoiler (Click to View)

Endurance Zombie

Spoiler (Click to View)

I'll do the Circle Survivor combo.

Spoiler (Click to View)

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - ~Stoney~ - Dec. 13, 2015

(Dec. 11, 2015 8:41 PM)Neo Wrote: How do you stand on Gaia G? Still not up for that set up?

Uhm actually, I've never said I was "against" it at all. Grin

I only said that those two parts don't fit well enough, which means to me it looks like they're not meant to be used together in the first place and I still say so. Btw, I absolutely don't care about banning or not banning any of those parts, because the really bad one's (like the Darks) can't be assembled anyways and if the others break because of tension during battle, it's the players own problem. You could ban all non-fitting to protect the player from his own stupidity, but you don't have to. I don't want to convince you at all of whether it should be banned or not, nor am I saying that this combo doesn't fit at all. I just assembled it for you to see how well it fits and came to the conclusion that it doesn't fit as well as AR and SAR should do, imo, although it's possible, and I stick to that. How to use that experience when trying to (not) ban it is up to you.

DS+SZ Tests - Neo - Dec. 14, 2015

Here you go, @[*Ginga*]

Equipment:
Tornado Attack Stadium
Dranzer Grip (EZ Grip + Rubber Grip + Spring Support)
The Combo: "DSSZ"

Spoiler (Click to View)

I had to use Survivor Ring instead of Defense Ring, because I was using my only Defense Ring on the Defensive Zombie. It gives good movement anyways, and it doesn't really touch the opponent. Uriel 2 Tip, because of the low height, and the fact that my SeaBorg Base is messed up. Plus I can use SP with it, so. I launched DSSZ second every time, because the Uriel 2 Tip always loses its maximum power immediately. I used the Sliding Shoot on DSSZ, and straight shots on the other 4. To substitute for launching DSSZ second everytime, I swapped between using the Grip and Launcher alone on every battle.

VS Endurance Zombie

Spoiler (Click to View)

DSSZ Win Ratio: 70%

Spoiler (Click to View)

Here's where we see how good this hyper-Aggro combo is. That impact it makes usually always KOs the Endurance Zombie. This is a good choice for Attack on Endurance.

VS Defensive Zombie

Spoiler (Click to View)

DSSZ Win Ratio: 21%

Spoiler (Click to View)

Testing against this Hasbro Twin Horn for other purposes (my White Gabriel G draft!) but jeez. This combo is really good. It steals it's spin and barely gets knocked out. Even though DSSZ is fast, this guy just absorbs all of the impact. Hasbro Twin Horn is just really good. So no, DSSZ is not a good match up for going against a WB2 Shaft zombie.

VS Circle Survivor

Spoiler (Click to View)

DSSZ Win Ratio: 40%

Spoiler (Click to View)

Well, I think Circle Survivor combos are the worst thing ever when using Attack. While DSSZ can hit the bottom of the base, it isn't very easy for it to KO this CS combo. Definitely not recommended.

VS Driger V2 (stock)
DSSZ Win Ratio: 47%

Spoiler (Click to View)

Driger V2 and DSSZ seem to have a LOT of recoil, and this isn't very good for DSSZ since Driger V2 has a metal tip. This makes it OS DSSZ quite a lot. Although towards the end, DSSZ seemed to hold it's own and get a few KOs. Sorta recommended.

Overall;
I think that the AR combo is pretty good, and using Dragon Breaker instead wouldn't benefit that much, even if it could fit. It holds SZ in place without excessive stress and force, and that's all that matters. Cute

(Dec. 13, 2015 9:58 PM)~Stoney~ Wrote:
Spoiler (Click to View)
(Dec. 11, 2015 8:41 PM)Neo Wrote: How do you stand on Gaia G? Still not up for that set up?

Uhm actually, I've never said I was "against" it at all. I only said that those two parts don't fit well enough, which means to me it looks like they're not meant to be used together in the first place and I still say so. Btw, I absolutely don't care about banning or not banning any of those parts, because the really bad one's (like the Darks) can't be assembled anyways and if the others break because of tension during battle, it's the players own problem. You could ban all non-fitting to protect the player from his own stupidity, but you don't have to. I don't want to convince you at all of whether it should be banned or not, nor am I saying that this combo doesn't fit at all. I just assembled it for you to see how well it fits and came to the conclusion that it doesn't fit as well as AR and SAR should do, imo, although it's possible, and I stick to that. How to use that experience when trying to (not) ban it is up to you.

Well, I don't think that Dragon Saucer + Screw Zeus should be banned. It doesn't fit loosely, and it fixes SZ in place without any issues or worries of breaking it. So the list is finished:

(Dec. 11, 2015 8:41 PM)Neo Wrote: Functioning:
War Lion (Galeon Attacker)
Great Tiger (Guardian Driger)
Holy Dispell (Zeus)
Dragon Saucer (Gaia Dragoon G)

Non-Functioning:
Great Dragon (Gaia Dragoon)
Dragon Breaker (Gaia Dragoon V)
Twin Horn (Hasbro, White Gabriel G)
War Bear (Galzzly)
War Monkey (Galman)
Dark Wing (Dark Series)
Mystery Cutter (Desert Sphinxer)

I just need the name of Desert Sphinxer's AR.
Got it. Thanks @[Wombat].

@[Kai-V] This is ready to go. Add it to the rules?

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - *Ginga* - Dec. 14, 2015

As long as you feel the results using Dragon Saucer are very similar to those using Dragon Breaker, I am fine with banning those certain combinations. Thanks for your tests!

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Howaitonekon - Mar. 08, 2016

Is there any progress I've missed during the last months? 'Cause I think the community should decide whether there should be a change regarding the rules or not.

In my opinion Dragon Saucer & Screw Zeus seems to do a good job, but I don't have a comparison to Dragon Breaker & Screw Zeus. The thing is: I agree with neo because I think that these parts (DB&SZ) were not meant to be put together and there are alternatives (Dragon Saucer, War Lion...) that can be used.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Hato - Jul. 07, 2016

Sorry to necro, but a decision should be made soon.

I recently got Zeus and decided to try it, and I have to agree with what Neo says; Screw Zeus does not fit on Dragon Breaker. Screw Zeus is clearly sticking out more on the underside than Dragon Breaker is;

Dragon + Zeus (Click to View)

In order to screw it in, it takes more force than it should be required to twist the AR. This is clearly trying to make something that isn't supposed to fit work. Screw Zeus can also be flipped, but even then the heads get in the way when trying to twist it on wider weight disks. If a Sub-AR was meant to work, it shouldn't be limited by what Weight Disk is used.

Overall, I think Dragon Break + Screw Zeus (and the other combinations listed in the OP) should be banned, as they do not work. Even though DK+SZ is beatable, that does not change the fact that the combination does not work.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Jinbee - Jul. 07, 2016

I agree with @[Hato], although they are supposed to be able to fit as it is a S-AR with an AR that supports S-ARs, if it has to be forced in, something younger kids wouldn't be able to do, then I don't think it should be used. I won't say that it wasn't supposed to fit but it was more likely an oversight from Takara, as Zeus seems to be the only S-AR that is elevated in certain sections. The amount of pop out left when just placing the S-AR on any pictures is very apparent leaving an extra 2 millimetres of height, and I don't think it varies, it will happen with everyone.

RE: [PLA] Banning certain Screw Zeus combinations - Neo - Jul. 07, 2016

(Dec. 11, 2015 8:41 PM)Neo Wrote: Functioning:
War Lion (Galeon Attacker)
Great Tiger (Guardian Driger)
Holy Dispell (Zeus)
Dragon Saucer (Gaia Dragoon G)

Non-Functioning:
Great Dragon (Gaia Dragoon)
Dragon Breaker (Gaia Dragoon V)
Twin Horn (Hasbro, White Gabriel G)
War Bear (Galzzly)
War Monkey (Galman)
Dark Wing (Dark Series)
Mystery Cutter (Desert Sphinxer)

General consensus is that this list should be added to the rulebook about Screw Zeus, @[Kai-V].
I'd also like to ban it from usage with SG Free Wing Base from Cyber Dragoon Battle Spec. and Gabriel. My ideaology is that if you can't use every Weight disk on a combo, it shouldn't be legal.