RE: Steps in Assessing a Wheel's Smash Capabilities - ƒ¡$h - Jul. 28, 2014
Sorry for the inactivity for the past week/s, been sorta busy. But today, I was able to edit the OP with desciptions of specific combos that possess different qualities.
But anyways, here's what I've pieced together by now (with the help of geniuses out there):
F=ma
Where
F is the force that an attack point can deliver
m is the mass behind the attack point
a is the acceleration of the attack point
Then,
Referring to green radius:blue radius ratio,
V=(green radius - blue radius * 360/x * RPM)/60
Where
V is the theoretical velocity of the opponent after contact
green radius and blue radius are in cm
x is the angle of the intersection of green radius and blue radius in º
RPM is the revolutions per minute.
So, basically if you can help piece/correct these two formulae together and/or have any mechanical ideas, please send me a PM. Kujikato has already mentioned what is required. Thanks!
RE: Steps in Assessing a Wheel's Smash Capabilities - MissingNo. - Jul. 28, 2014
I really like when we consider beyblade like a serious scientific thing and not like a child game.
I wanted create a similar thread, but my english is not enough good for correctly translate.
Anyway, 11 
RE: Estimating a Wheel's Smash - ƒ¡$h - Aug. 23, 2014
Sorry for changing the name of this thread, but it seemed to reflect the content better. But anyways, I have a request, which is to take perfect top views of the Wyvang molds. Post them here, or PM me. I'm going to do something special with them...
RE: Estimating a Wheel's Smash - Kai-V - Sep. 11, 2014
This was really a great idea -I am not certain about the primary method used though- so I went ahead and added red outlined circles on the first good birdview pictures I found for the Metal System Wheels so far. Of course, there are a lot of other factors involved in assessing a Metal Wheel's Attack abilities, like the obvious vertical relief on the side of it, the weight distribution, the overall weight, etc. However, we always have the impression that a Wheel has amazing protrusions and such, but when we actually bring the Circle into the story, things often take a completely different turn of events.
From what I have found so far just with the products up until BB-27, I think some designs are really telling of what makes it good or bad in whatever type they were best used.
[Image: AP_Pegasis.jpg]
Considering the spin direction, you can indeed see that the protruding points may give quite a blunt force with that small curve at the farthest segment.
[Image: AP_Bull.jpg]
The Wheel is really mostly circular, and while the image completely hides the two points that would make the most of the brute force, you can see that they would need to be absolutely effective in the short possibility that the opponent comes in contact with the space between the two horns. The bull rings are also clearly useless. This all rather makes sense considering how Bull never found any use.
[Image: AP_Sagittario.jpg]
I definitely had to lower the opacity of the red circle, because there are very subtle curves in the arcs that notably leave some space for the two arrow parts to protrude very slightly but just in comparison to where the arcs' centres finish, go back inward. But, generally, quite a circular design.
[Image: File:AP_Leone.jpg]
You can see that everything is completely circular, and that the only thing of 'importance' is that one set of paws has abrupt corners whereas the other is slower to form the top of the claws. I do think Leone was the original Defense Wheel of choice during the first few releases, hah ?
[Image: AP_Wolf.jpg]
It definitely shows what we knew from the beginning : some potentially killer attack points, but damn, why were they made in the opposite spin direction ? Now, with what does protrude in Wolf's right spin direction, you basically have the impression of caressing the opponent ...
[Image: AP_Aries.jpg]
Oddly, some shy, elongated protrusions at the very farthest point on the horns, but that would probably not have done much at all; if anything, it could have very slightly hindered Defense or Stamina.
[Image: AP_Libra.jpg]
This is surprising, because even if the circle drawing is not perfect, it does look like there are small protrusions everywhere around the Wheel, so apparently the ideal weight distribution really compensates for any small imperfections in the design.
[Image: AP_Aquario.jpg]
Again, if you take into consideration the spin direction of the Aquario Wheel, you can see that the protrusions are really not facing the right way. So you end up with curves slightly like on Pegasis, but it does not look like there is that same sudden change in the curve that Pegasis has that forms a sort of block. This can indeed explain why Aquario was never a good Attack Wheel.
[Image: AP_Virgo.jpg]
As you can see, it is basically perfectly circular except for those small dips in the 'hair' on each side of the Wheel, but as we know from history, even those dips inward apparently cannot significantly hinder its performance.
[Image: AP_LDrago.jpg]
There are some interesting protrusions, but oddly not in the right direction at all. This is very weird considering that L Drago was an OK Attack Wheel. Apparently it is more about the shape and number of the protrusions than the way they are facing, as well as the weight and the advantage of being the only opposite-spin Wheel at that time.
[Image: AP_Escolpio.jpg]
Hey, so as we know, this is perfectly circular but there is such a big surprise underneath that it is not funny at all ...
[Image: AP_Pisces.jpg]
It is mostly circular except for some small head tops that could indeed come in contact with the opponent, but probably not with enough force, and that could actually halt some Defense and Stamina from its otherwise round shape.
[Image: AP_Gemios.jpg]
We know this Wheel lacks weight and proper weight distribution, but there could be interesting hits from those spirit heads if they are even accessible. It looks like there are also absolutely small protrusions near the middle of the spirits' circumference, but they are not in the right spin direction.
[Image: AP_Capricorne.jpg]
There is a slight chance the hooves create an infinitely small protrusion from between the horns, but we know there is no weight to support any of that, so this Wheel is mostly circular with no good mass.
Again, as Brad told us a while ago, remember that designers actually purposely start with a circle and do what they can to imperfect that circle.
Hopefully I can do some Hybrid Wheel System Metal Wheels soon.
RE: Estimating a Wheel's Smash - ƒ¡$h - Sep. 11, 2014
(Sep. 11, 2014 2:36 AM)Kai-V Wrote: This was really a great idea -I am not certain about the primary method used though- so I went ahead and added red outlined circles on the first good birdview pictures I found for the Metal System Wheels so far. Of course, there are a lot of other factors involved in assessing a Metal Wheel's Attack abilities, like the obvious vertical relief on the side of it, the weight distribution, the overall weight, etc. However, we always have the impression that a Wheel has amazing protrusions and such, but when we actually bring the Circle into the story, things often take a completely different turn of events.
From what I have found so far just with the products up until BB-27, I think some designs are really telling of what makes it good or bad in whatever type they were best used.
[Image: AP_Pegasis.jpg]
Considering the spin direction, you can indeed see that the protruding points may give quite a blunt force with that small curve at the farthest segment.
[Image: AP_Bull.jpg]
The Wheel is really mostly circular, and while the image completely hides the two points that would make the most of the brute force, you can see that they would need to be absolutely effective in the short possibility that the opponent comes in contact with the space between the two horns. The bull rings are also clearly useless. This all rather makes sense considering how Bull never found any use.
[Image: AP_Sagittario.jpg]
I definitely had to lower the opacity of the red circle, because there are very subtle curves in the arcs that notably leave some space for the two arrow parts to protrude very slightly but just in comparison to where the arcs' centres finish, go back inward. But, generally, quite a circular design.
[Image: File:AP_Leone.jpg]
You can see that everything is completely circular, and that the only thing of 'importance' is that one set of paws has abrupt corners whereas the other is slower to form the top of the claws. I do think Leone was the original Defense Wheel of choice during the first few releases, hah ?
[Image: AP_Wolf.jpg]
It definitely shows what we knew from the beginning : some potentially killer attack points, but damn, why were they made in the opposite spin direction ? Now, with what does protrude in Wolf's right spin direction, you basically have the impression of caressing the opponent ...
[Image: AP_Aries.jpg]
Oddly, some shy, elongated protrusions at the very farthest point on the horns, but that would probably not have done much at all; if anything, it could have very slightly hindered Defense or Stamina.
[Image: AP_Libra.jpg]
This is surprising, because even if the circle drawing is not perfect, it does look like there are small protrusions everywhere around the Wheel, so apparently the ideal weight distribution really compensates for any small imperfections in the design.
[Image: AP_Aquario.jpg]
Again, if you take into consideration the spin direction of the Aquario Wheel, you can see that the protrusions are really not facing the right way. So you end up with curves slightly like on Pegasis, but it does not look like there is that same sudden change in the curve that Pegasis has that forms a sort of block. This can indeed explain why Aquario was never a good Attack Wheel.
[Image: AP_Virgo.jpg]
As you can see, it is basically perfectly circular except for those small dips in the 'hair' on each side of the Wheel, but as we know from history, even those dips inward apparently cannot significantly hinder its performance.
[Image: AP_LDrago.jpg]
There are some interesting protrusions, but oddly not in the right direction at all. This is very weird considering that L Drago was an OK Attack Wheel. Apparently it is more about the shape and number of the protrusions than the way they are facing, as well as the weight and the advantage of being the only opposite-spin Wheel at that time.
[Image: AP_Escolpio.jpg]
Hey, so as we know, this is perfectly circular but there is such a big surprise underneath that it is not funny at all ...
[Image: AP_Pisces.jpg]
It is mostly circular except for some small head tops that could indeed come in contact with the opponent, but probably not with enough force, and that could actually halt some Defense and Stamina from its otherwise round shape.
[Image: AP_Gemios.jpg]
We know this Wheel lacks weight and proper weight distribution, but there could be interesting hits from those spirit heads if they are even accessible. It looks like there are also absolutely small protrusions near the middle of the spirits' circumference, but they are not in the right spin direction.
[Image: AP_Capricorne.jpg]
There is a slight chance the hooves create an infinitely small protrusion from between the horns, but we know there is no weight to support any of that, so this Wheel is mostly circular with no good mass.
Again, as Brad told us a while ago, remember that designers actually purposely start with a circle and do what they can to imperfect that circle.
Hopefully I can do some Hybrid Wheel System Metal Wheels soon.
Ah, I thought this thread was dead, if not almost. So it seems I've achieved the goal of having someone understand what I say, haha. I hope I'm not being forceful, but I think a fiddle with Wyvang would be of uttermost importance, seeing it's the most powerful (in terms of [estimated] Newtons) yet mysterious attack wheel. Based on analysing the winners of photography competitions, I believe Angry Face or Meow! could give a perfect top view of Wyvang. I know the former visits frequently, but Meow has been inactive from what I've noticed. I'll get to PMing them later today. Then I'll update this post with the photo that has been scribled on (maybe hardcopy, which is more precise), and put it in the OP.
PS. Brad's comment was interesting to me. It now makes sense, I guess.
EDIT: I forgot to specify this; I believe real photos, not computer generated ones, are the best, which is why I'm requesting a Wyvang photo. In fact, the molds make this even more so.
RE: Estimating a Wheel's Smash - Kai-V - Sep. 11, 2014
I think nobody could give a perfect straight birdview photograph of anything, hence why it has to come from an official source.
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