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+--- Thread: Deikailo's Ban. (/Thread-Deikailo-s-Ban--48505)
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - th!nk - Apr. 02, 2012
Keep clear that I'm personally not denying these allegations at all. I'm yet to hear both sides.
I think it was specifically in relation to that match, though, as well as delays in other tournaments being processed that weren't affected by those results not being sent in. It's been a while though.
I'll ask her if she wants me to post something for her when we next speak.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Hazel - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:00 PM)th!nk Wrote: Based on the reactions here, do you think anyone having these words said about them does not deserve the right to defend their character?
Perhaps I should be more direct: I don't think that's fair, not at all.
Given the nature of this situation, as Brad has pointed out, it would have very immediately turned into a gigantic argument spewing nonsense in every direction, getting personal, and ultimately being derailed into things likely unrelated, which would have not only been much more messy, but completely pointless - the things we have laid out here are not things that can be "argued", let alone "defended" - these are facts. Nothing possibly can be said to alter that.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Kai-V - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:04 PM)th!nk Wrote: Keep clear that I'm personally not denying these allegations at all. I'm yet to hear both sides.
I think it was specifically in relation to that event, though. After the point the rest of the event bar that match was processed. It's been a while though.
I'll ask her if she wants me to post something for her when we next speak.
Oh wait, I just remembered what Brooklyn's Battalion was. Still, that was many more months ago, and once we had indeed taken the decision to process that final match, it ended up showing that the Beypoints had already been processed : apparently, putting something "On Hold" barely does anything ...
Of course we are not planning to just leave this up and open so that it can be revived every other time, because that would make Deikailo quite a martyr. We just wanted to tell you all why we banned Deikailo because you would not have been fine with just seeing her grey username without any explanation, and we are leaving this open for a while because you would have probably complained even more about not being able to express yourselves on the matter either. If you just take a moment to think about it neutrally, considering that the main point is that she is banned now, then you will surely realise that we have taken the best course of action possible. A banned Member obviously cannot come back here to explain themselves, so that leaves us with what I proposed now : someone, like th!nk, tries to explain her side of the story too.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Wizard - Apr. 02, 2012
Why does everybody feel the need to argue with the committee about this? Deikailo is obviously doing wrong, so the ban was needed. Judging by the circumstances, I'm quite surprised that everyone seems to be on her side about this.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - th!nk - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:05 PM)Hazel Wrote:(Apr. 02, 2012 7:00 PM)th!nk Wrote: Based on the reactions here, do you think anyone having these words said about them does not deserve the right to defend their character?
Perhaps I should be more direct: I don't think that's fair, not at all.
Given the nature of this situation, as Brad has pointed out, it would have very immediately turned into a gigantic argument spewing nonsense in every direction, getting personal, and ultimately being derailed into things likely unrelated, which would have not only been much more messy, but completely pointless - the things we have laid out here are not things that can be "argued", let alone "defended" - these are facts. Nothing possibly can be said to alter that.
Context, at the very least, is always important, and pardon me if I don't trust you on what is and isn't "fact", no offence, but we all know that you are prone to partiality.
At the very least, a much fairer method could have been devised through some method - all five of you, as well as our moderators, are highly intelligent, and I know very well you could come up with something better. But, as it's been cleared for me to "be her voice" at some point, that is sorted now.
Bey-Heart: Perhaps you should read more carefully. I don't think anyone has said anything other than "she should have been given the right to defend her character", or "wow she's terrible", the latter being the majority.
Kai-V: as I said, not completely clear on when it all happened, but the only time I heard about it was around the time where the beypoint queue even for events unrelated to the tournaments you've mentioned, and nothing since Arupaeo took the reigns there.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Hazel - Apr. 02, 2012
We made this public announcement specifically so users could voice their opinions on the matter, but in absolute full awareness that the ban is completely final.
Given her status within the community, it is obviously expected that this will be difficult to understand for some users, as well, but we have laid out the facts in as neutral a manner as humanly possible.
th!nk, if I were the deciding factor here - or even one of them, really, as this was a unanimous decision regardless, your "point" would be more valid or even remotely acceptable. I have seen what everyone else in The Committee has seen, and know what they know.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Annoying-Fork - Apr. 02, 2012
I don't compete at all, or get involved in anything outside this site except for purchasing Beyblades, but it's a damn shame to see something like this happen out of the blue.
My condolences, community.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Primal - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:08 PM)Bey-Heart Wrote: Why does everybody feel the need to argue with the committee about this? Deikailo is obviously doing wrong, so the ban was needed. Judging by the circumstances, I'm quite surprised that everyone seems to be on her side about this.They're arguing because the Committee (apparently) hasn't heard all of Deikailo's side. Everyone who's harping on Dei saying 'she should feel ashamed', 'she can only blame herself', etc. isn't helping; they're just adding fuel to the fire.
Personally, I'm not biased towards either side of the argument, but I do admit that it would've been better to hear more from Dei before giving her the gray username.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Hazel - Apr. 02, 2012
If anyone is arguing that we haven't heard all of her side, they are wrong.
However, I do not see anyone reasonably arguing that - the primary argument is that some people think they are entitled to know her side.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - th!nk - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:09 PM)Hazel Wrote: We made this public announcement specifically so users could voice their opinions on the matter, but in absolute full awareness that the ban is completely final.
Given her status within the community, it is obviously expected that this will be difficult to understand for some users, as well, but we have laid out the facts in as neutral a manner as humanly possible.
th!nk, if I were the deciding factor here - or even one of them, really, as this was a unanimous decision regardless, your "point" would be more valid or even remotely acceptable. I have seen what everyone else in The Committee has seen, and know what they know.
I'm fully aware it's final, I don't think that anyone is that concerned about the ban itself, given she barely posts and had basically left a long time ago.
I'm afraid they don't read particularly neutrally, I've already pointed out that a couple of things make slightly more sense in context, but I'm disheartened to hear some of these myself, though again, I still need to hear more of her side of things. Again, not denying any of these personally, just want both sides to be heard before people jump to conclusions.
My point was that you stated it was "fact", and that I don't believe you are a reliable source, and, given that the entire committee is on one "side" of the argument, I don't think it is likely that any of you could be truly neutral on this issue. That sort of thing is only human though, nothing personal, though you are prone to more... Extreme, perhaps? opinions than most of the committee, or at least, are more vocal about them. No offence meant, again.
Oh and yeah, Primal, I am sure the committee has heard her entire argument, I'm just saying that I do not think it is fair that no one else has.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Kai-V - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:08 PM)th!nk Wrote: Kai-V: as I said, not completely clear on when it all happened, but the only time I heard about it was around the time where the beypoint queue even for events unrelated to the tournaments you've mentioned, and nothing since Arupaeo took the reigns there.
What we were reported was done in December.
By the way, I edited my previous post. I should have probably just submitted it in a different message ...
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - 3-Dog - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:08 PM)Bey-Heart Wrote: Why does everybody feel the need to argue with the committee about this? Deikailo is obviously doing wrong, so the ban was needed. Judging by the circumstances, I'm quite surprised that everyone seems to be on her side about this.
Your post is kind of the problem. Yes, the committee has banned her, but I think EVERYONE (not just the committee) needs to be able to hear her side of the story as well. You just judged and condemned her without hearing what she had to say about all this. I'm not arguing the ban. Even if I don't agree with it, I do acknowledge that the committee has made their decision and won't reverse it. That's fine, but I don't think you should pretend to know all the facts without talking to Deikailo first.
Kai-V Wrote:She took people's money, for instance : even if she had a super good excuse and story, it is still a sort of crime, because tournament participants do not give money so that she can take it for herself
Sorry, but I don't see what's wrong with her keeping the money made from a tournament she put the effort into hosting? The tournament she kept the money from wasn't done under the WBO's banner. She needs to cover the costs (time and money) that she incurred, and what's so wrong about making a little profit? Doesn't she deserve it for putting the time and effort in to promote and host a Beyblade tournament?
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Arupaeo - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:08 PM)th!nk Wrote: Context, at the very least, is always important, and pardon me if I don't trust you on what is and isn't "fact", no offence, but we all know that you are prone to partiality.
At the very least, a much fairer method could have been devised through some method - all five of you, as well as our moderators, are highly intelligent, and I know very well you could come up with something better. But, as it's been cleared for me to "be her voice" at some point, that is sorted now.
You are all welcome to make up your own mind as to what you believe or don't believe. It won't change the outcome, but each of us has to interpret events for ourselves - including how we feel about them.
It's OK to feel angry, or sad, or surprised, or however each of us feels about this. For some of us this will feel like a loss, and for others it will feel somewhat less than that.
This wasn't a happy event for me, but I have come to my own peace with why we took the action to ban Deikailo and I think it was the correct thing for us to do.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Wizard - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:08 PM)th!nk Wrote: Bey-Heart: Perhaps you should read more carefully. I don't think anyone has said anything other than "she should have been given the right to defend her character", or "wow she's terrible", the latter being the majority.But if she was given the chance to defend herself, this topic would be extremely derailed, as was already stated.
If you guys wanna defend Deikailo and chat with her, feel free to go to her site. If you don't care, or don't agree with what she did, stay on WBO. It's that simple.
I'm also surprised the committee didn't close this already as it's starting to turn into a flame war.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - th!nk - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:15 PM)Kai-V Wrote:(Apr. 02, 2012 7:08 PM)th!nk Wrote: Kai-V: as I said, not completely clear on when it all happened, but the only time I heard about it was around the time where the beypoint queue even for events unrelated to the tournaments you've mentioned, and nothing since Arupaeo took the reigns there.
What we were reported was done in December.
By the way, I edited my previous post. I should have probably just submitted it in a different message ...
After Arupaeo had wrassled the beypoint queue down to size, with an allowance for her to realise that? I'm kinda hazy on dates over the last 3-5 months, sorry. I don't support not paying funds to the WBO, that is an agreement you enter when hosting a tournament.
Mhmm. I will do that as soon as I have her side of the story.
Arupaeo: Well said.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Tamer Shinn - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:21 PM)Bey-Heart Wrote:(Apr. 02, 2012 7:08 PM)th!nk Wrote: Bey-Heart: Perhaps you should read more carefully. I don't think anyone has said anything other than "she should have been given the right to defend her character", or "wow she's terrible", the latter being the majority.But if she was given the chance to defend herself, this topic would be extremely derailed, as was already stated.
If you guys wanna defend Deikailo and chat with her, feel free to go to her site. If you don't care, or don't agree with what she did, stay on WBO. It's that simple.
I'm also surprised the committee didn't close this already as it's starting to turn into a flame war.
So it's either/or? At least that's how I took it. I'm not gonna throw out my opinion on this simply due to the fact I haven't heard both sides of the story. But the Admin's word is law. Plain and simple.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Kai-V - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:18 PM)Zain Wrote: Sorry, but I don't see what's wrong with her keeping the money made from a tournament she put the effort into hosting? The tournament she kept the money from wasn't done under the WBO's banner. She needs to cover the costs (time and money) that she incurred, and what's so wrong about making a little profit? Doesn't she deserve it for putting the time and effort in to promote and host a Beyblade tournament?
No, you do not understand : yes, she gave a few dollars from some of her uncleared events to Kei one day when she went to Toronto, but during that final accounting we keep mentioning and that I detailed in one of my messages here, she lied about owing us nothing, so she had basically taken it for herself already.
What you are thinking about is something, but you are forgetting that there were instances that she did it while she was doing WBO tournaments, not her own events. Plus, anyway, surely you can see how her values are incompatible with the World Beyblade Organization's, where everyone is a volunteer.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - th!nk - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:21 PM)Bey-Heart Wrote: But if she was given the chance to defend herself, this topic would be extremely derailed, as was already stated.
If you guys wanna defend Deikailo and chat with her, feel free to go to her site. If you don't care, or don't agree with what she did, stay on WBO. It's that simple.
I'm also surprised the committee didn't close this already as it's starting to turn into a flame war.
We've already found an appropriate way to do that without it becoming derailed, though, so your point is already incorrect...
So, no one is allowed to question the neutrality of the accusations levelled at someone who was a member of this community?
And, don't make this into a "stay or go" issue, please. I'm pretty sure no one wants to see the community as a whole split like that.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Arupaeo - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:18 PM)Zain Wrote:Kai-V Wrote:She took people's money, for instance : even if she had a super good excuse and story, it is still a sort of crime, because tournament participants do not give money so that she can take it for herself
Sorry, but I don't see what's wrong with her keeping the money made from a tournament she put the effort into hosting? The tournament she kept the money from wasn't done under the WBO's banner. She needs to cover the costs (time and money) that she incurred, and what's so wrong about making a little profit? Doesn't she deserve it for putting the time and effort in to promote and host a Beyblade tournament?
No, not as a WBO member she doesn't. The WBO is a network of volunteers who do not make a dime off of the fees that WBO Members pay for tournaments.
She can choose to make a profit from the tournament fees that she makes on her own, but that is exactly the opposite of how the WBO works and part of the reason why she is no longer here.
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:27 PM)th!nk Wrote: And, don't make this into a "stay or go" issue, please. I'm pretty sure no one wants to see the community as a whole split like that.
Exactly, this is nothing of the sort. th!nk is entitled to his opinions and his questions, and both are welcome as far as I'm concerned.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Hazel - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:18 PM)Zain Wrote: Sorry, but I don't see what's wrong with her keeping the money made from a tournament she put the effort into hosting? The tournament she kept the money from wasn't done under the WBO's banner. She needs to cover the costs (time and money) that she incurred, and what's so wrong about making a little profit? Doesn't she deserve it for putting the time and effort in to promote and host a Beyblade tournament?
In this case, it even sort of came off as a betrayal - rather than working with us, a non-profit organization that throws all of the money not spent on reimbursement directly back into the community in the form of more elaborate events/prizes, she opted to host private tournaments, using many of our members, and pocket the money rather than giving it back to her community. Even by comparison alone, it is ugly.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Kai-V - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:21 PM)Bey-Heart Wrote: But if she was given the chance to defend herself, this topic would be extremely derailed, as was already stated.
If you guys wanna defend Deikailo and chat with her, feel free to go to her site. If you don't care, or don't agree with what she did, stay on WBO. It's that simple.
I'm also surprised the committee didn't close this already as it's starting to turn into a flame war.
There is no reason for people to "choose one side" just because of one individual, hah. Not only can you do both, but for most people, this makes no difference ...
th!nk Wrote:After Arupaeo had wrassled the beypoint queue down to size, with an allowance for her to realise that?
Could you reword that ? It might just be my French nature, but I did not totally understand that, and I wish to give you the clearest answer possible.
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Hazel - Apr. 02, 2012
I actually do not think I properly understood it either, which is why I did not respond to it...
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - th!nk - Apr. 02, 2012
Were the statements you refer to, her encouragement of others to not pay the due fees, made a reasonable amount of time after the beypoint queue/wait for tournaments to be process had shrunk significantly (when Arupaeo did a lot of work on processing)?
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - ~Mana~ - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:18 PM)Zain Wrote: Sorry, but I don't see what's wrong with her keeping the money made from a tournament she put the effort into hosting? The tournament she kept the money from wasn't done under the WBO's banner. She needs to cover the costs (time and money) that she incurred, and what's so wrong about making a little profit? Doesn't she deserve it for putting the time and effort in to promote and host a Beyblade tournament?
The WBO is a non-profit organisation and every penny goes to organising events, tournaments, giveaways etc. If a member volunteers to run an event, they have to agree to abide by certain terms. Since it's voluntary work, it's unpaid, and they know that. Yes, I agree that to some extent, you'd generally wanna get paid for your time, but that's not the case here.
Regardless, it's also disappointing since trust is applied, but is completely thrown aside. As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong), but the staff here guide the organisers after an event to provide an address and recieve results. You also have to bare in mind, Blader Passports are sold at events as well, which, at $10 a pop, racks up pretty well, but also will disappoint users after the event since they'll have neither confirmed results nor a Blader Passport which they paid for.
And again, I feel like I've made absolutely no sense...need less medication...
RE: Deikailo's Ban. - Hazel - Apr. 02, 2012
(Apr. 02, 2012 7:33 PM)th!nk Wrote: Were the statements you refer to, her encouragement of others to not pay the due fees, made a reasonable amount of time after the beypoint queue/wait for tournaments to be process had shrunk significantly (when Arupaeo did a lot of work on processing)?
One such event was quite recent, if I recall correctly - only last month, or late the month before.