+- World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. (https://worldbeyblade.org)
+-- Forum: Beyblade Discussion (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Beyblade-Discussion)
+--- Forum: Beyblade General (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Beyblade-General)
+--- Thread: Should we ban Basalt? (/Thread-Should-we-ban-Basalt--38423)
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Cye Kinomiya - Aug. 16, 2011
LOL, did you just go against banning Basalt so that parents wouldn't have to spend more money on other beys? Aww man. I actually appreciate that, haha.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Janstarblast - Aug. 16, 2011
(Aug. 16, 2011 11:53 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: LOL, did you just go against banning Basalt so that parents wouldn't have to spend more money on other beys? Aww man. I actually appreciate that, haha.
Hehe! Even I respect that theory. LOL
!Dan- Yes, your point is brilliant! No one whined over Libra's ban.
The problem is, Basalt is so widely used that-
1. Its hard for people to drop it.
2. People have tried to find counters of it(which worked exceptionally well) why people think that its not overpowered.
In the last line of your post, you said that its not 'ultimate'. This is what majority of people think, making them go against Basalt's ban.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - H8R - Aug. 16, 2011
uugghhh gasp people the phrase "If you can't beat them join em" Is being used too much because of basalt. People are using it so much that they think its the ONLY way to win Banning it would force people to use not only different combos but NEW combos. Banning the combo MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS will leave us with MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230CS which was used even more. its easier to just ban it!
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Ultra - Aug. 16, 2011
(Aug. 16, 2011 11:47 AM)taj12 Wrote: Banning Basalt would be outrageous. Those who do own one revolve their metagame around this wheel. No one here is seeming to understand the cost factor and wether your parents are supportive of this hobby. Think of it like this:Banning it for a certain percentage of your matches wouldn't work, as:
- Supportive Parents+You= Bey funds
- Unsupportive parents+You= No bey funds
There is a whole thread on parents and families here
- It will vary depending on wether you make finals or not resulting in confusion during the peliminary rounds. I dont think anyone here predicts the future
- More beys=More Money Spent=More Trouble=Less parental Support
We need to understand that Basalt is OVERUSED not OVERPOWERED. Understand this and problem solved.
Your argument is rediculous. Yes lets destroy the metagame and all variation just because some members have no money to buy beys. Basalt is definately overpowered. Can you really not see that? It dominates two types...
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - H8R - Aug. 16, 2011
honestly Scythe BD145 has no problem beating it but yeah TH170 IS a problem
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - ControL_ - Aug. 16, 2011
TH170 isn't a problem, VariAres R145 can KO quite easily now.
--
On Sunday, the UK had a professionally done, but unofficial tournament that included the ban of Basalt.
Might I say, as a regular tournament activist, that unofficial tournament was miles funner and more competitive than our usual tournaments.
Those that are trying to keep Basalt are of course loving the fact they own one, but I reckon the majority of those people have never attended a WBO official tournament before, which is the problem. The view of banning it or not really depends on entering a tournament or not, as you'll find that there is a lot of Basalt lurking around. I've been watching Daegor42's tournament videos, I saw a slice of VariAres' being used, but I must say, there was a lot of Basalt in Canada too.
Of course i'm not attacking Canada, it's similar in the UK too, and in that one unofficial tournament we had, VariAres did well, I won matches with it confidently. Libra CH120RF was used by me, it is no longer overpowered, I used it three times, and only won once. Therefore even Libra acts as a regular combo, that one which was once banned. There were Scythe BD145's, it was stable, yet high attack types (popular) could take care of that too (VariAres R145).
Beyjun came 3rd, using a spin stealer, Libra BD145CS, and Gravity Perseus BD145MF. Not one basalt was used, and the sheer fear of someone using a Basalt 230CS (defying all low traditional stamina) did not lurk around.
--
What would be ideal, is if the vote at the top of this thread, only allowed those who have entered a tournament to vote. I honestly believe the majority of those voting to keep Basalt have never experienced the outspinning capabilities of it.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Serotonin - Aug. 16, 2011
Your final suggestion isn't something we can implement, but you definitely raise a valid point.
I'd been waiting to hear the results of the tournament, and I'm glad it went well. What you said can be attributed to the lack of Basalt, but could also be down to a more relaxed atmosphere given it wasn't an official tournament, even if it was subconscious.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - H8R - Aug. 16, 2011
I have never been to a tournament though I wish I cou;d host one I have no bladers around me either that or they have no legit parts.....
Although I've never been to one I know a heck of a lot about them I've seen videos and I know what you mean control_ I think we should just ignore the poll and stick to the suggestions....
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - ControL_ - Aug. 16, 2011
(Aug. 16, 2011 1:53 PM)♥ Wrote: Your final suggestion isn't something we can implement, but you definitely raise a valid point.OH I definitely wouldn't say it wasn't as tense as an official tournament... Stalling existed worse than ever for an odd reason, everyone took it extremely seriously. Which I found quite sad, everyone was putting some sort of pride on the line.
I'd been waiting to hear the results of the tournament, and I'm glad it went well. What you said can be attributed to the lack of Basalt, but could also be down to a more relaxed atmosphere given it wasn't an official tournament, even if it was subconscious.
What I'm also saying is, without Basalt, other combos could make an appearance, as no one knew the opponents combos, the guessing was refined without the terror of the opponent picking Basalt.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Serotonin - Aug. 16, 2011
(Aug. 16, 2011 1:57 PM)H8R Wrote: I have never been to a tournament though I wish I cou;d host one I have no bladers around me either that or they have no legit parts.....
Although I've never been to one I know a heck of a lot about them I've seen videos and I know what you mean control_ I think we should just ignore the poll and stick to the suggestions....
Well, yes ... obviously any decision isn't going to be based on just a poll.
(Aug. 16, 2011 2:13 PM)ControL_ Wrote: OH I definitely wouldn't say it wasn't as tense as an official tournament... Stalling existed worse than ever for an odd reason, everyone took it extremely seriously. Which I found quite sad, everyone was putting some sort of pride on the line.
What I'm also saying is, without Basalt, other combos could make an appearance, as no one knew the opponents combos, the guessing was refined without the terror of the opponent picking Basalt.
Obviously I wasn't there so I can't really make any significant points about the atmosphere, but that's really interesting to hear, haha.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - TenshouTsubasa - Aug. 16, 2011
The biggest problem is basalt is too heavy for Attack types to knock it out.
With BD145 is monstrous,but just don't talk about that.
Even uncustomed, it's still not easy to be knocked out.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Loneblader97 - Aug. 16, 2011
Basalt shohld be weakened some how like a mold 2 thats is lighter. that to me would be a fairer metagame where attack types can have you win. making it lighter would make it a stamina whell, which i think shold be done.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Janstarblast - Aug. 16, 2011
(Aug. 16, 2011 2:47 PM)loneblader97 Wrote: Basalt shohld be weakened some how like a mold 2 thats is lighter. that to me would be a fairer metagame where attack types can have you win. making it lighter would make it a stamina whell, which i think shold be done.
Unfortunately, we are the WBO and not TT. That option is out of the question.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Pony - Aug. 16, 2011
(Aug. 16, 2011 2:47 PM)loneblader97 Wrote: Basalt shohld be weakened some how like a mold 2 thats is lighter. that to me would be a fairer metagame where attack types can have you win. making it lighter would make it a stamina whell, which i think shold be done.
And what about the people who already have Basalt? Little things could foil brilliant ideas.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Ultra - Aug. 16, 2011
How is that a brilliant idea if there's no way it could actually happen...
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - ThePokeBlader - Aug. 16, 2011
I think it should be banned there are loads of people wanna win there battles but they have no beys stronger than basalt especially with BD145MB but Libra is fine in UK tournaments EVREYBODY uses it
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - BeybladeStation - Aug. 16, 2011
Ya, but that's why modern day Attack Combinations are being ignored.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Jaygrazer - Aug. 16, 2011
Point is Basalt has had some impact on the metagame, and should be taken out untill 4D beyblades come out with stronger pieces.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 16, 2011
(Aug. 16, 2011 7:27 AM)KaizerMFB Wrote: ok, after a bit of testing, I really think we are all overreacting....
So Basically,
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS loses to Scythe Kronos (Stamina) AD145EDS.
Basalt Bull 145WD loses to Scythe Kronos (Stamina) AD145EDS other than a few KOs, but the majority were OS to Kronos.
and Scythe Kronos (Stamina) AD145EDS. loses to most attack types, even off top-tier list.
Either that, or it just makes other parts redundant. Well I say we gotta move on, sorta like Beyblade G-Revo. to MFB.
Either what I just siad, or I have a total loss of understanding why some of you need it banned.
Have we forgotten
Attack
X O
Defense Stamina
This is exactly the issue. Basalt leaves us unable to deviate between types, to use a 'Balance' Type of sorts. It makes the game no fun, because it is simply rock-paper-scissors-counter combo.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Ultra - Aug. 16, 2011
(Aug. 16, 2011 7:27 AM)KaizerMFB Wrote: ok, after a bit of testing, I really think we are all overreacting....
So Basically,
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS loses to Scythe Kronos (Stamina) AD145EDS.
Basalt Bull 145WD loses to Scythe Kronos (Stamina) AD145EDS other than a few KOs, but the majority were OS to Kronos.
and Scythe Kronos (Stamina) AD145EDS. loses to most attack types, even off top-tier list.
Either that, or it just makes other parts redundant. Well I say we gotta move on, sorta like Beyblade G-Revo. to MFB.
Either what I just siad, or I have a total loss of understanding why some of you need it banned.
Have we forgotten
Attack
X O
Defense Stamina
uh this post is really redundant and wrong. Wow a defence combo using a rubber bottom gets outspun by a stamina types. Cause that isn't obvious. Also Basalt sucks in traditional stamina. Clearly since that scythe combo is just a stamina combo it will get blown away by attack. Have you forgotten every basic point or what?
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - BigBangSoda145 - Aug. 16, 2011
(Aug. 16, 2011 2:47 PM)loneblader97 Wrote: Basalt shohld be weakened some how like a mold 2 thats is lighter. that to me would be a fairer metagame where attack types can have you win. making it lighter would make it a stamina whell, which i think shold be done.
There already two molds of basalt. Mold 1 was the mold released with first lot os basalt horogium starters.First Lot number is L1010, L1110, ----- L1510 on bottom of package. Mold 1 is more balanced and slightly heavier than Mold 2 basalt wheels. Therefore basalt mold 1 is better, but both are overpowered/overused. Check akirasdaddy's video--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiDTe8msNFw&feature=channel_video_title
You probably already saw this , but it supports the point.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Deikailo - Aug. 16, 2011
If people don't want to use Basalt because it's a "cheap win", I think that should be a moral decision as opposed to a set in stone rule. Personally, I feel like my win is worth more without a Basalt, although some may say a win is still a win. That's just how I feel personally, that I want to win based on my skill level and ability to use a diverse selection of Beyblades in the course of one tournament instead of winning because I have top tier parts.
Maybe I'd be higher in the rankings if I didn't feel that way, but I can name a few stalling battles that I would have won if I went with an attack type as I originally wanted to instead of what was "safe" because I was unsure of what my opponent is going to use.
It's not a matter of believing in your bey, but if you believe in yourself, it is entirely possible to win based on that.
For example, The Problem and I were playing in our last tournament. I had not played Basalt the entire tournament. We turn around for stalling clause. When we turn back around, he was using Variares BD145RF and I was using Basalt Aquario TH170CS. I would have lost that round if I didn't psych him out by saying he wasn't confident enough to use that combo. He was actually "decent" with that combo, but because I told him he wasn't, he got nervous and mislaunched. However, after the tournament, we decided to switch beys out, and I was KOing him left and right.
Basalt is 100% mental, and unfortunately, I think it starts here. If Basalt didn't have as much hype, you wouldn't see it as frequently. Yes, you'll see other defense and stamina combos, which is why this conversation should turn into finding methods to promote attack types, IMO.
(Aug. 16, 2011 4:17 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: uh this post is really redundant and wrong. Wow a defence combo using a rubber bottom gets outspun by a stamina types. Cause that isn't obvious. Also Basalt sucks in traditional stamina. Clearly since that scythe combo is just a stamina combo it will get blown away by attack. Have you forgotten every basic point or what?Scythe is very defensive. The free spinning PVC part can cut down impact.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - BeybladeStation - Aug. 16, 2011
I didn't know that, BigBangSoda. But it is a point, not for sure true, as that is what you said.
(Aug. 16, 2011 4:21 PM)Deikailo Wrote: Basalt is 100% mental, and unfortunately, I think it starts here. If Basalt didn't have as much hype, you wouldn't see it as frequently. Yes, you'll see other defense and stamina combos, which is why this conversation should turn into finding methods to promote attack types, IMO.That makes much more sense now, honestly. If you're just gonna think you will win, you won't, that is if the opponent is good and sure with there Attack Type.
Thanks.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - ShadowZoroark - Aug. 16, 2011
Im not into the hoby no more (sold al my beys) but i do take an interest.
I wouldnt ban Basalt itself but ban the the combo that wins all th time (mainly with BD145....)
If im wrong correct me but i havnt been following these past few weeks......
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Deikailo - Aug. 16, 2011
(Aug. 16, 2011 4:23 PM)BeyBladestation Wrote: I didn't know that, BigBangSoda. But it is a point, not for sure true, as that is what you said.Not exactly so.
(Aug. 16, 2011 4:21 PM)Deikailo Wrote: Basalt is 100% mental, and unfortunately, I think it starts here. If Basalt didn't have as much hype, you wouldn't see it as frequently. Yes, you'll see other defense and stamina combos, which is why this conversation should turn into finding methods to promote attack types, IMO.That makes much more sense now, honestly. If you're just gonna think you will win, you won't, that is if the opponent is good and sure with there Attack Type.
Thanks.
I know it's a rough comparison, but the odds of Beyblade can be compared to counting cards with Blackjack. If you personally detest Basalt and do not want to play it, then the odds might be against you if your opponent does not feel the same way, just like a player vs. the house. The house will always have the odds in their favour.
If you know basic strategy (when to hit, stand, split, double down, etc.) then your odds of winning grow. This could be compared to knowing what is top tier, how to build effective combos outside of basalt, when to use what, etc.
If you know how to count cards, which can be a very strenuous mental process, then you have a rough idea of when you should play a certain strategy (knowing the way your opponent will play, how to deceive them), which slants the game into your favour.
If you know how to place your bets correctly, then you will have a shot at winning more often, just like knowing how to shoot. That can be very basic. There are times where you want to launch at full strength, partial strength, and weak launch.
There are so many ways to play this game outside of combo selection it isn't even funny.