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Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Printable Version +- World Beyblade Organization (https://worldbeyblade.org) +-- Forum: Beyblade Discussion (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Beyblade-Discussion) +--- Forum: Beyblade General (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Beyblade-General) +--- Thread: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events (/Thread-Winning-Combinations-at-WBO-Organized-Play-Events) Pages:
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RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - OldSchool™ - Aug. 20, 2019 (Aug. 20, 2019 3:29 AM)Bladerbill Wrote: I know LostSoul irl so I can ask him what he used if you want! Please and thank you! Tell him to PM me if he is able. ![]() RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Bladerbill - Aug. 20, 2019 (Aug. 20, 2019 3:33 AM)OldSchool™ Wrote:Sure thing! I’ll let him know(Aug. 20, 2019 3:29 AM)Bladerbill Wrote: I know LostSoul irl so I can ask him what he used if you want! RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Ravinchen - Aug. 20, 2019 (Aug. 20, 2019 3:15 AM)OldSchool™ Wrote: Sherd it in the Dish! - 8/18/19what's with the surge in sting bearing ????? RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Ash_Ketchum_007 - Aug. 20, 2019 (Aug. 20, 2019 11:15 AM)Ravinchen Wrote:(Aug. 20, 2019 3:15 AM)OldSchool™ Wrote: Sherd it in the Dish! - 8/18/19what's with the surge in sting bearing ????? I think the combo in which it is used in, are stamina combos that are better than wall bearing or ratchet bearing in same spin or, in attack combos that have decent precession or LAD which can allow them to win by spin finishes if they fail to KO or burst the opponent. RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - AirKingNeo - Aug. 21, 2019 (Aug. 19, 2019 9:34 PM)Ravinchen Wrote:(Aug. 19, 2019 9:18 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: To my knowledge, CzS.00W.Br beats hS.St.At. I don't know about hS.00C.Xt+ or hS.00C.Ds', though Ds' on hS has fallen out of favor. Hell Salamander has been viable in meta where no other left spin beys were in the meta, so you're completely wrong there. Literally almost a year ago when Spriggan Requiem fell out of favor. (Aug. 19, 2019 9:55 PM)Shindog Wrote:(Aug. 19, 2019 9:18 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: To my knowledge, CzS.00W.Br beats hS.St.At. I don't know about hS.00C.Xt+ or hS.00C.Ds', though Ds' on hS has fallen out of favor.Reach lines up better with zwei than bump. Yes, people are forced to play Zwei to beat Bearing. Even if Zwei is good on its own merits, you still have to play it in every deck as it is the only reliable counter to Bearing. And yes, it is fair to not ask him to use it since, if Bearing isn't OP, it should be possible to win a tournament using a deck without Bearing counter, Zwei. (Aug. 19, 2019 11:14 PM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: AirKingNeo challenge accepted. I wasn't planning to use Zwei or bL to counter Bearing. The Deck seems a bit odd, but it counters a lot of things. What Bearing combo do you suggest practicing against? The typical ones. Cho-Z Spriggan/Lord Longinus/Balkesh B3.00Wall.Bearing RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - CitrusNinja3 - Aug. 21, 2019 (Aug. 21, 2019 1:52 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote:(Aug. 19, 2019 11:14 PM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: AirKingNeo challenge accepted. I wasn't planning to use Zwei or bL to counter Bearing. The Deck seems a bit odd, but it counters a lot of things. What Bearing combo do you suggest practicing against? Okay then, the combo that I'm using to beat all kind of Left Spin Beys can beat those combos pretty easily. It's not even meant to target those Beys, but it's just good at beating all kinds of combos, even hS.St.At. RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Orang Melayu - Aug. 21, 2019 which better.. pP.00C.Xt+ vs pP.Outer.Xt+/At vs pP.St.Xt+/At RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Shindog - Aug. 21, 2019 (Aug. 21, 2019 1:52 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote:I don’t understand.... how did ppl beat bearing before Zwei, actually without any left spin beys even....(Aug. 19, 2019 9:34 PM)Ravinchen Wrote: facepalm hS is for LEFT VS LEFT NOT LEFT VS RIGHT I fail to see the logic here. Zwei is good against a lot of thing including bearing. But because it happens to be good against bearing ppl are “forced” to use it because of bearing? You did say Zwei is excellent yes? RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - eigerblade - Aug. 21, 2019 (Aug. 21, 2019 2:47 AM)Shindog Wrote: I don’t understand.... how did ppl beat bearing before Zwei, actually without any left spin beys even.... Sorry, my sarcasm detector is broken so I am not sure if you're actually asking or not Shindog, LOL Back during God Layer, Spriggan Requiem Bearing was dominating. I'm not sure what counters it because I had not started playing back then. Does Nightmare Longinus work against it? During ChoZ, Bloody Longinus was used to try to counter Hell Salamander Bearing, sometimes Crash Ragnaruk with a dash driver too, but both options were rare to see on the list. I personally found that weak launching a right spin bey (like REALLY weak launching) can burst hS Br too. Its an option I use if I get into an unfavorable matchup, like using a right spin bey that I know wont out-LAD hS Br. It does not work anymore as soon as ChoZ Spriggan virtually eliminated Bearing's burst risk. Once Xtend+ comes out it became the counter to Bearing combos, making it a pure LAD match at the expense of groaning judges and spectators. I am not quite familiar with how effective older attack layers like Dead Hades, ChoZ Achilles, etc when up against ChoZ Spriggan with Bearing, but none are as effective as Zwei right now IMO. RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Wombat - Aug. 21, 2019 I kinda didn't want to post since I didn't want to have to deal with any arguments that would make me post more, but I rly think this needs to be said: (Aug. 18, 2019 2:59 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: It isn't just burst stoppers and rubber stoppers preventing Bearing from bursting. It's also the fact opposite spin can use it, which we saw last year with hS/Sr.0L.Br. It's not even Bearing being powerful, but warping the metagame around it by forcing a triangle where it's hard for any right spin bey to beat Bearing, unless they are also Bearing (which is incredibly unviable), which is beaten by an offensive left spin bey, but offensive left spin isn't really good into any right spin beys. Ok, so according to this, Bearing is only viable in left spin, which is opposite to most Beyblades (but realistically only like 50% of the competitive meta). This is the reason why you think Zwei is the only counter to Bearing, correct? (Aug. 18, 2019 1:13 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote:(Aug. 18, 2019 12:36 AM)Rouzuke Wrote: Quite the input there, but banning Bearing would also mean having to ban specifically czS and LS, both of which also have those Burst stop/resist gimmicks as you have mentioned. Following that action, we'll probably have to ban Outer and Xt+ since that instead would dominate the WBO meta for spin equalizing as soon as Bearing goes off the grid. pP won't need to be banned since Judgment and czA exist, aH and hS will probably still dominate somewhat, and Sr will have a comeback with the absence of its larger successors. You're right about allowing spin direction change making Bearing broken, since it has arguably the best LAD in the game if you optimize the Disk. There was even some dude called bladekid who got to the top 8 of the largest tournament in WBO history literally only using Legend Spryzen 0Wall Bearing because he exploited the exception to the rule that effectively makes lS the only dual spin Bey in Burst, and in a smaller tournament CheetoBlader also got to the top 4 this way. And there was even another guy called Thug testing who won a tournament (though it didn't really count) using Sr.10C.Xt+. Speaking of Xt+, you're also incorrect about Bearing being more powerful than it - with Disks/Frames optimized for opposite spin, the two are painfully equal. On top of that, Xt+ has a stronger spring, making it harder to burst, and also has a better same spin performance when optimized for opposite spin (since Bearing has to use stuff that's gonna scrape like Lift/Turn/Wall/Ratchet/Vanguard). Therefore, Xt+ is overall a more versatile Driver, and as a result Bearing really only sees use in Decks that also have Xt+ (so you have the 2 setups with the most precession/LAD in opposite spin directions) or with Layers that have something to overcompensate for its weakness like Lord or CzS, which would work better with Xt+ and even counter their Bearing variations. While I'm not Japanese I'm pretty sure that the CzS.St.At combo you mentioned wasn't designed with defense in mind - it was their response to the situation they're stuck in with CzS/Lord being able to change spin directions and acts as a dual spin destabilizer to whatever Bearing/Xt+ combo it's up against. In that sense, it is better than hS.St.At, but only with that ruleset as the latter has more same spin stamina. (Aug. 19, 2019 6:32 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote:(Aug. 19, 2019 12:05 PM)Ravinchen Wrote: I will have to disagree on banning bearing, in the first stages everybody is using xtend+ because it's the safest if they get into a same spin match stamina opposite weak launch attack mode and barely anybody uses atomic in this stage because of atomic's opposite spin lad is doo-doo and getting into an opposite spin match is 50%/50% so that's not a threat when you get to decks bearing is easily counter by the good old atomic in same spin or an attack from its low friction and if your that paranoid use atomic right orbit metal left and no orbit metal is not an anti ko driver its metal causes low friction which causes more ko so if your want anti ko look for regular orbit t Basically, what I'm saying is what Ravinchen was trying to tell you here, just in a more eloquent way (sorry Ravinchen). Given your first post that I quoted where you said that only opposite (left) spin Br was viable, the reason hS Atomic continues to see use today is because it is a hard counter to Bearing (along with Orbit, Om, and like most other ball tips). While Atomic might have been the best opposite spin Driver when it was released like 2 years ago, a bunch of stuff has come out since then (Destroy, Eternal, Octa, and even Absorb) that will consistently outspin it in opposite spin given the optimal Disks/Frames, and nowadays its uses are pretty much exclusively for same spin. I hate to do a shameless channel plug but I really think it would benefit you to watch this video. Because of this, it's actually relatively easy to build a deck that beats Bearing combos without using Bearing or Zwei: aH/pP.00C.Xt+, JA.0D/Bl.X' 天, and hS/DD/CzS/LL.St.At in left spin. Coincidentally, this also happens to be basically the right spin mirror of the deck I currently use (hS.00W.H, oE.St.O, ZF.10G.Jl' 滅). (Aug. 18, 2019 5:33 AM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: 4) Ban painted discs on Burst Resistor beys. This is actually an interesting idea, but I don't think it's gonna work in practice just because there's other disks (Blitz being the most well known, but I think 5 and Vanguard work too?) that aren't painted but still make Judgement hard to burst (Not sure about Lord yet, since I don't have it). (Aug. 21, 2019 2:15 AM)Orang Melayu Wrote: which better.. 00C.Xt+. Cross outperforms Outer in both spin directions on Stamina Mode Xt+, Outer is really only used because it's better than Cross in Attack Mode Xt+ (which is only really used in Attack Mode), though it's a little worse than Proof. However, Proof cripples Xt+'s Stamina Mode making it kind of a bad choice unless you know you're up against opposite spin. Outer just lets the user be a bit more responsive to the opponent's spin direction, but idk if it's really worth using over Cross anymore. pP works ok on Atomic but it's not super optimized bc when you're using Atomic you want to go for same spin Stamina and if the armor gets knocked off that will be severely reduced. But like pP.St.At would probably beat most pP Xt+ combos 1v1 if that's what you're asking. RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Ash_Ketchum_007 - Aug. 21, 2019 (Aug. 21, 2019 1:52 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote:(Aug. 19, 2019 9:34 PM)Ravinchen Wrote: facepalm hS is for LEFT VS LEFT NOT LEFT VS RIGHT You do make it sound like zwei is a layer purely used for countering bearing. He could use as attack vs right spin and non bearing left spin combos too. RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - XXSYPHERXX - Aug. 21, 2019 Does Lord Out Class Cho-Z Spriggan Now? RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Ravinchen - Aug. 21, 2019 (Aug. 21, 2019 3:28 PM)XXSYPHERXX Wrote: Does Lord Out Class Cho-Z Spriggan Now? yes but no the tabs wear out quick RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - AirKingNeo - Aug. 21, 2019 (Aug. 21, 2019 2:47 AM)Shindog Wrote:(Aug. 21, 2019 1:52 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: Yes, people are forced to play Zwei to beat Bearing. Even if Zwei is good on its own merits, you still have to play it in every deck as it is the only reliable counter to Bearing. And yes, it is fair to not ask him to use it since, if Bearing isn't OP, it should be possible to win a tournament using a deck without Bearing counter, Zwei.I don’t understand.... how did ppl beat bearing before Zwei, actually without any left spin beys even.... There are things that can beat Bearing, but not reliably. I've been using the word "reliably" for a reason. You're mixing up the fact Zwei is good on its own merits and Zwei having to be used. The argument has nothing to do with Zwei being good or not. The argument is that Bearing is a driver that can only be beaten reliably by Zwei, so Zwei must be used to counter it. That argument does not care if Zwei is good or bad. It only cares about the fact it must be used, which proves Bearing is too centralizing on the meta. (Aug. 21, 2019 7:00 AM)Wombat Wrote: I kinda didn't want to post since I didn't want to have to deal with any arguments that would make me post more, but I rly think this needs to be said: Zwei is the only reliable counter to Bearing because that's what the meta and testing tell us. Bearing being used on left spin only, Zwei being the only offensive left spin layer, and the fact the left spin layers who use Bearing have added burst resistance (or just Hasbro Bearing being broken) to prevent passive layers like Hell Salamander from bursting them are factors. Xt+ having a stronger spring doesn't matter when the matchup is opposite spin. Non-Zwei left spin layers on Xt+ won't burst the user of Bearing due to burst stoppers, rubber stoppers, or Hasbro Bearing. There are no (or barely, if any) tournament tops of people using Lord/Cho-Z Spriggan on Xtend+ to beat CzS/L?.00W.Br. I do not know who wins in the matchup of hS.00C.Xt+ vs CzS.00W.Br though (as each of those combos have topped). I don't think Octa beats Atomic in opposite spin at all. aH/pP.00C.Xt+ and J?.0?/Bl.X'/Qc' Zan/Retsu/Metsu/Ten can beat Bearing, but not reliably. Random question, but why do you use Glaive on your Zwei combo over Bump? It could be from Jolt' having a low height, but would Glaive be optimal on Qc'/X'? Also, I've seen some use Glaive on Judgement, but I don't know why. RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Shindog - Aug. 21, 2019 Did you read Wombat’s post carefully? Did he not give other ways to reliably beat Bearing? And I point out there was a time before Zwei But after choS. People were able to deal with bearing then. Also wombat is correct about Octa beating At in opposite spin. His position is supported by both tournament results and testing. Have you tested this? What makes you say he is incorrect? RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - eigerblade - Aug. 22, 2019 (Aug. 21, 2019 9:33 PM)Shindog Wrote: Did you read Wombat’s post carefully? Did he not give other ways to reliably beat Bearing? And I point out there was a time before Zwei But after choS. People were able to deal with bearing then. I'm against banning bearing myself. Wombat did mention left spin Atomic as a consistent counter, but its very rare to see it actually being used since it dies to right spin Xtend+ and Zwei. However, if left spin Atomic combos can survive Judgment and outspin left spin Bearing, it might be worth running. RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Shindog - Aug. 22, 2019 (Aug. 22, 2019 2:33 AM)eigerblade Wrote:Left spin atomic was used as recent as 8/18/19 by Wondermax to win that tournament. You can find his tournament winning combos list in this thread on this page. Others have used it too, including myself. Also, Zwei was not present in his WC list and his opponents had Br.(Aug. 21, 2019 9:33 PM)Shindog Wrote: Did you read Wombat’s post carefully? Did he not give other ways to reliably beat Bearing? And I point out there was a time before Zwei But after choS. People were able to deal with bearing then. RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - eigerblade - Aug. 22, 2019 (Aug. 22, 2019 5:38 AM)Shindog Wrote:(Aug. 22, 2019 2:33 AM)eigerblade Wrote: I'm against banning bearing myself.Left spin atomic was used as recent as 8/18/19 by Wondermax to win that tournament. You can find his tournament winning combos list in this thread on this page. Others have used it too, including myself. Also, Zwei was not present in his WC list and his opponents had Br. Thanks for pointing that out, I guess its not as rare as I thought. I think since his left spin Atomic already takes care of Bearing, he could skip on Zwei. Do you find left spin Atomic to handle Judgment well, Shindog? I'm interested in trying it out too. RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Shindog - Aug. 22, 2019 (Aug. 22, 2019 5:51 AM)eigerblade Wrote:It depends on the judgment combo and the left spin atomic combo.(Aug. 22, 2019 5:38 AM)Shindog Wrote: Left spin atomic was used as recent as 8/18/19 by Wondermax to win that tournament. You can find his tournament winning combos list in this thread on this page. Others have used it too, including myself. Also, Zwei was not present in his WC list and his opponents had Br. Personally, I don’t think a Left spin Atomic combo is that bad against judgement. Judgment is an excellent attack layer. It should have a chance to beat just about anything in the format currently. RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - CitrusNinja3 - Aug. 23, 2019 (Aug. 22, 2019 5:57 AM)Shindog Wrote:(Aug. 22, 2019 5:51 AM)eigerblade Wrote: Thanks for pointing that out, I guess its not as rare as I thought. I think since his left spin Atomic already takes care of Bearing, he could skip on Zwei.It depends on the judgment combo and the left spin atomic combo. Not to mention that people have been running Judgement with Xtend+ and Ωcta, which beat Atomic in LAD as long as the battles don't get too hectic. RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Infinite.Zero - Aug. 23, 2019 (Aug. 21, 2019 1:52 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote:People are "forced' to use Zwei to beat Bearing? If you're going to believe that, you might as well ban Xt+ right now. The real reason people use Zwei is the amount of smash it has. Not only does it burst same spin bearing, but it Koes plenty of Right/Left spin stamina stuff. If you truly believed Bearing is ruining the meta, then you haven't seen enough Beyblade tournament matches. All you need is Hell Salamander Atomic to destabilize it. Same reason Orb Egis Orbit is used to beat Perfect Phoenix Xt+.(Aug. 19, 2019 9:34 PM)Ravinchen Wrote: facepalm hS is for LEFT VS LEFT NOT LEFT VS RIGHT RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - LazerBeamz - Aug. 26, 2019 Pixel 2: Spriggan to Action - 08/25/19 Brooklyn, New York - Burst Standard 1st Jecky Lord Longinus Sting Atomic (Deck & Group) Perfect Phoenix Outer Xtend+ (Deck) Judgment Valkyrie Blitz Destroy' RETSU (Deck) Perfect Phoenix 0 Atomic (Group) 2nd LazerBeamz Zwei Diabolos Sting Dimension' (Deck) (Level Chip) Perfect Phoenix 00 Cross Atomic (Deck) (Level Chip) Perfect Phoenix 00 Cross Xtend+ (Group) 3rd @'Mr. Palazzo' (Level Chip) Dead Hades 0 Meteor Destroy' (Group & Deck) Dread Bahamut 00 Bump Atomic GEN (Deck) Lord Spriggan 7 Cross Xtend+ (Deck) RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - RED NINJA 0829 - Aug. 26, 2019 (Aug. 26, 2019 1:02 AM)LazerBeamz Wrote: Nice Spicy Combos, Do U Know What Layer Weight Was Used On Dread Bahamut? RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - eigerblade - Aug. 26, 2019 (Aug. 26, 2019 1:02 AM)LazerBeamz Wrote: Pixel 2: Spriggan to Action - 08/25/19 Right after a lengthy discussion about Bearing, a winning list popped out without a single Bearing in sight, lol RE: Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events - Rouzuke - Aug. 26, 2019 (Aug. 26, 2019 3:04 AM)eigerblade Wrote:(Aug. 26, 2019 1:02 AM)LazerBeamz Wrote: Pixel 2: Spriggan to Action - 08/25/19 Either they trial banned Bearing for that specific tournament, or participants had the sense to actually have mobile aggro combos instead of having Beyblades kiss each other to death |