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+---- Thread: MF Lightning L Drago BD145LRF (/Thread-MF-Lightning-L-Drago-BD145LRF)
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - ControL_ - May. 19, 2011
I think in some battles I demonstrated an average hard pull when it circled the tornado ridge, it actually stalled there for a decent time before dropping back in and clutching the draw/win. Above that the RS based combo was knocked out once or twice, many draws, some LT OSing, no Libra wins? Was similar for Basalt.
Spin Stealing and Spin equalising are practically the same thing. Both are kind of wrong but I definitely much prefer spin equalising. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inelastic_collision Look at the cartoon showing V and V/2
With confusing variables aside, it should be named Spin Sharing - PM me on this, no posting here on this. (All credit to BladeStorm).
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - Hov - May. 19, 2011
This thread should've been closed long ago. Too much arguments again from last night and this morning.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - Bluezee - May. 19, 2011
(May. 19, 2011 8:57 PM)Deikailo Wrote:(May. 19, 2011 8:40 PM)Bluezee Wrote:If Karice wasn't ready to share his combo, then he shouldn't use it at tournaments where everyone can see it? That's like saying I don't want anyone to know what I look like on the internet, yet it's inevitable since you all see me there.(May. 19, 2011 8:15 PM)th!nk Wrote: Just to clarify, LRF isn't really traditionally defensivee if launched at full power, obviously, but what people are saying is that by launching it weaker, you can have it stay relatively centre-bound, like a defence tip. I've seen this myself when I had a launcher break during launch, the resulting weak launch left the beyblade with LRF gyrating in the centre of the stadium. That said, I cannot vouch for the stamina at all, I stopped it quickly after the launch.
Maybe we shouldn't use "defensive", and instead refer to the concept of "anti-Meta" or RF defense (MF-H Earth Bull 85RF etc). There was a discussion on RF defence in the advanced forum, if I recall correctly? Maybe that is somewht relevant, though it referred to worn RF's, not LRF. Either way, both are somewhat similar, THOUGH AS I SAID, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A WEAK LAUNCH, LETTING IT STAY IN THE CENTRE.
Also, Dei, MF-H Earth Bull UW145D/SD? I'd think that'd be KO'd... Bluezee, could you shed some light on that?
Sure thing. Spin-Sonic was using is combo, which I am more than sure he was not ready to share so I don't even know why it was mentioned, and I self-KOed two times. At that time, my LRF was not at its prime and it was bad launching on my behalf. I did not position my launcher the way I usually do. I wanted to match his spin power by being reckless but I could not stay in. Also, there was no MF-H on that combo. On top of that, Spin-Sonic can tell you himself that his combo gets KOed by LT rather often if I shoot correctly. That is his own personal counter and it works quite well when it does stay in and if he positions the wings correctly, I'm a sitting duck. However, this was not the case in this match. I self-KOed on my own terms and the match where I finally hit him after adjusting my launch and ended up in a win on my part. Either way, had I lost that match, we still would have had to do another one so I could have adjusted my launching and kept it consistent after that.
Secondly, Deikailo, when have you ever seen me self-KO any other time? And no disrespect to IKMV because I know all too well how great he is and I appreciate the battles he gives me win or lose but have you forgotten I have been using attackers since the plastic gen? I have more experience in that area. His precision however is to be rivaled.
Lastly, Spin-Sonic's shot is more powerful than mine. With his combo and how he uses its wings, it makes it much harder for me to create a KO if I don't bank and hit him out within the first 8-10 laps.
Hey, Bluezee, I've been using attackers since I started playing, but that doesn't mean that years can beat hard work in brief amounts of time.
If I remember correctly, you had two combos in the plastic generation: your spin stealer and AR: Trycutter, BB: Storm Grip. You went back and forth. Up until recently, however, you've used purely stamina in MFB. IKMV has pretty much always experimented with attackers or hybrid attack/stamina since I first saw him play. If you want to argue "I've been ____ since plastics", my shot used to be Godly in plastics, but now I suck. Completely different game.
I don't get to see you play attackers often enough to tell you specific times for self KOs because you're mostly using stamina.
First of all, I used that Try Cutter combo ONE TIME and it wasnt even with Storm Grip. It was with SG Flat. Get that part right first. I had ONE combo and that was my Infinity combo. That was the ONLY one I used as a main combo. I addressed why I used only stamina in TOURNAMENTS a long time ago. You keep making comments about things you see one time. You don't know what I use when I am practicing. And you surely don't know what options I have in my pocket.
Also, the fact that you're slacking does not mean I am. Don't try and compare us. That's your issue. Don't try to apply your misfortune onto others. Also, I never said I was any better or worse than IKMV. I said his skill was to be rivaled so in my own words, I am saying that I had more experience considering I have been using them longer.
Lastly, just because someone is using something at a tournament does not mean they want it broadcasted to the world. They used it to win. That is all. He used it one time and there were like 6 people in the room not a whole forum. They weren't paying attention to the combo, they were watching the match. It would be really nice if you stay on topic.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - th!nk - May. 19, 2011
BLUEZEE, DEI, TAKE THAT ATTACK EXPERIENCE THING TO PM'S Please, it's going to derail the thread, I respect the both of you, but seriously, I'm getting tired of the arguments right now.
(May. 19, 2011 9:01 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: i watched most of the video, and i am sorry but there was no spin stealing there
if it spin stealed it would of spun much longer then the libra, but it didn't, it only spun for a few seconds after
what it was doing is called spin equalizing, which is a different, but similar, to spin stealing
now you may say that it spun longer then basalt 230 did in that video, but i saw that destabilizing was the key in that battle
You have to Steal Spin to equalise. Outspinning by half a rotation is still enough to win. The name/terminology may not be correct, BUT THAT IS IRRELEVANT, and you should not be making large points based on that. The fact it wins while equalising and destabilising to outspin is enough, and the video shows that.The argument is not about whether it steals spin or not, but whether it can outspin certain opponents, by equalising and destabilising or whatever method.
(May. 19, 2011 9:05 PM)® Wrote: This thread should've been closed long ago. Too much arguments again from last night and this morning.There's no reason to close the thread. It's not that far off topic right now, it is a little heated, but with adequate prodding it should cool down. Some posts from earlier deserve their own thread in which to discuss the "deserved recognition" thing. Locking the thread would halt relevant discussion. A temporary lock may seem a good idea, but I think tensions would only simmer and boil over when it was re-opened.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - Bluezee - May. 19, 2011
(May. 19, 2011 8:59 PM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: I just saw the video. I have to eat every word I said about it not being an effective spin stealer. I'm kind of excited that I'm wrong.
EDIT: Haha. I think I should stay away from the "I was this good back then" argument.
Cye, you're still awesome now lol.
I am just going to ignore irrelevant comments from this point on. If it doesn't deal with the combo, it doesn't deal with me.
LT does have issues with Hell 230 SOMETIMES. I think it mostly has to do with the fact that only the clear wheel is ripping under Hell 230 and not the metal.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - Hov - May. 19, 2011
Still th!nk its getting out of hand. If I recall a temporary lock down, it was never opened again. Which was by Roan. I mean how could people get to arguments about how 'important' LRF or RF is. I mean, they are still RUBBER FOR THE GRIP. THATS THE POINT! So yah.... I mean my R²F and RF works fine with LT they DO have similar win rates. So to me, LRF isnt all that special.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - lord Wolfblade - May. 19, 2011
(May. 19, 2011 9:02 PM)ControL_ Wrote: Spin Stealing and Spin equalising are practically the same thing.
if you read my post correctly you would see that i said they are similar, but they do a different thing
spin stealing makes the spin stealer's spin more then the opponent (allowing it to spin for longer time periods, i guess by ten+ seconds longer), spin equalizers make both sides have equal spin (so either the equalizer will win by i second or two, or the opponent will)
yes they do use very similar methods to do this, but they still are doing different things
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - BillyBlast - May. 19, 2011
cpuld this maybe be used with meteo like MM could be used with lightning 9i know l drago but )
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - Cye Kinomiya - May. 19, 2011
I'm actually excited to go test LT again now. When I tested it I always won by KO, so I really didn't notice that it actually could steal spin.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - th!nk - May. 19, 2011
Cye, I'm so glad you're finally convinced
BillyBlast, I don't think that would work as well, lightning is a far better wheel offensively, and it's much more useful to this combo. I'd wait for a more experienced user to respond, though.
(May. 19, 2011 9:14 PM)® Wrote: Still th!nk its getting out of hand. If I recall a temporary lock down, it was never opened again. Which was by Roan. I mean how could people get to arguments about how 'important' LRF or RF is. I mean, they are still RUBBER FOR THE GRIP. THATS THE POINT! So yah.... I mean my R²F and RF works fine with LT they DO have similar win rates. So to me, LRF isnt all that special.
Other than the attack experience argument, it is just a little heated. This thread needs to be open for further testing and discussion of a very important combo.
LRF logically works better, please don't start that argument again, we have testing to show that LRF works better. Those arguments, however, are still relevant to the thread, it is an important factor in the combo's performance. You may not see it yourself, but it apparently is resulting in some people getting sub-par results. I am unsure of further properties of LRF, but that is even more reason people need to discuss it, so we can all understand how it works.
(May. 19, 2011 9:14 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote:(May. 19, 2011 9:02 PM)ControL_ Wrote: Spin Stealing and Spin equalising are practically the same thing.
if you read my post correctly you would see that i said they are similar, but they do a different thing
spin stealing makes the spin stealer's spin more then the opponent (allowing it to spin for longer time periods, i guess by ten+ seconds longer), spin equalizers make both sides have equal spin (so either the equalizer will win by i second or two, or the opponent will)
yes they do use very similar methods to do this, but they still are doing different things
No disrespect, but that's completely irrelevant. The point is, it equalises and destabilises and wins. The point: IT'S EFFECTIVE AT WINNING.
Maybe I'm using the wrong term (I'm using them as descriptors, not names for certain types of spin-equalising-sharing-etc), but that's not the point. The point is, it can equalise/destabilise and outspin opponents, and win in doing so.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - BladeStorm - May. 19, 2011
(May. 19, 2011 9:14 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote:(May. 19, 2011 9:02 PM)ControL_ Wrote: Spin Stealing and Spin equalising are practically the same thing.
if you read my post correctly you would see that i said they are similar, but they do a different thing
spin stealing makes the spin stealer's spin more then the opponent (allowing it to spin for longer time periods, i guess by ten+ seconds longer), spin equalizers make both sides have equal spin (so either the equalizer will win by i second or two, or the opponent will)
yes they do use very similar methods to do this, but they still are doing different things
Post if you have something to say, not if you have to say something.
Anyway, now that MF Lightning L Drago BD145LRF has integrated into the universal metagame, I guess new "defence" combos will have to be tested against it.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - Bluezee - May. 19, 2011
(May. 19, 2011 9:19 PM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: I'm actually excited to go test LT again now. When I tested it I always won by KO, so I really didn't notice that it actually could steal spin.
That's the cool thing about this combo. It pretty much covers all the bases of a true balance type in a way. But then again, I could be getting a bit ahead of myself with that part. I just know it has a lot of great features that make up for each others' flaws, giving this combo multiple ways to win.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - Cye Kinomiya - May. 19, 2011
Guys, what has been called spin stealing in this game (since forever ago) is actually spin sharing (or equalizing or whatever you guys called it). I think you have the idea that spin stealers spin 5-10 seconds longer because back in the days of zombies they did. But, that's because zombie combos used parts that made the beyblade able to spin on it's side for a few seconds after the other beyblade stopped spinning.
Also, has anyone tried this combo with Meteo instead? I imagine that it's attack will decrease, but it's spin stealing will increase.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - lord Wolfblade - May. 19, 2011
(May. 19, 2011 9:20 PM)th!nk Wrote: No disrespect, but that's completely irrelevant. The point is, it equalises and destabilises and wins. The point: IT'S EFFECTIVE AT WINNING.
Maybe I'm using the wrong term (I'm using them as descriptors, not names for certain types of spin-equalising-sharing-etc), but that's not the point. The point is, it can equalise/destabilise and outspin opponents, and win in doing so.
i do get that, to me it doesn't matter how it wins at all. unfortunately whenever someone uses the wrong term my brain says that it is my duty to correct them.
i have no hard feeling dude
anyways, once i have the parts, the stadium, and the skill i will gladly post some tests
(though i am not really convinced that BD145 is good for attack at all)
(May. 19, 2011 9:27 PM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: I think you have the idea that spin stealers spin 5-10 seconds longer because back in the days of zombies they did. But, that's because zombie combos used parts that made the beyblade able to spin on it's side for a few seconds after the other beyblade stopped spinning.i will agree with that, as zombies used stamina parts that allowed it to spin longer, MFB spin steelers/equalizers use rubber tips letting it only spin longer for a split secound
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - th!nk - May. 19, 2011
(May. 19, 2011 9:21 PM)BladeStorm Wrote: Anyway, now that MF Lightning L Drago BD145LRF has integrated into the universal metagame, I guess new "defence" combos will have to be tested against it.
I hadn't considered this, good point. Though, it may be somewhat similar to the whole "attack type testing vs RS/RSF" thing, though part of the issue with that was practicality in tourneys, which this combo doesn't really suffer.
The meteo suggestion is actually interesting now I consider it... Hmmh. I vaguely recall playing around with it, but I don't remember anything significant.
However, it's worth noting that LDD doesn't work as well as LLD in this combo, in general, so I don't know if it'd be all that effective.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - Cye Kinomiya - May. 19, 2011
(May. 19, 2011 9:29 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote:(May. 19, 2011 9:20 PM)th!nk Wrote: No disrespect, but that's completely irrelevant. The point is, it equalises and destabilises and wins. The point: IT'S EFFECTIVE AT WINNING.
Maybe I'm using the wrong term (I'm using them as descriptors, not names for certain types of spin-equalising-sharing-etc), but that's not the point. The point is, it can equalise/destabilise and outspin opponents, and win in doing so.
i do get that, to me it doesn't matter how it wins at all. unfortunately whenever someone uses the wrong term my brain says that it is my duty to correct them.
i have no hard feeling dude
anyways, once i have the parts, the stadium, and the skill i will gladly post some tests
(though i am not really convinced that BD145 is good for attack at all)
(May. 19, 2011 9:27 PM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: I think you have the idea that spin stealers spin 5-10 seconds longer because back in the days of zombies they did. But, that's because zombie combos used parts that made the beyblade able to spin on it's side for a few seconds after the other beyblade stopped spinning.i will agree with that, as zombies used stamina parts that allowed it to spin longer, MFB spin steelers/equalizers use rubber tips letting it only spin longer for a split secound
Actually, what allowed zombie combos to spin on their sides was that they were round along the edge. In fact, there was a time when people used Wolborg 2's shaft (which was made out of rubber) on zombies in order to counter the popular attack types of the time.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - ControL_ - May. 19, 2011
@ Lord WolfBlade
OK that sounds fun, but actually this is what goes on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inelastic_collision
So you see the spin sharing, velocity, still object ect.
Most importantly:
If two beys are spinning in the opposite direction, you must observe which one HUGE factor.
Balance. If both beys are not aggressive/do not produce high collision in particles, we outrule the KO factor.
Balance.
Balance.
"What do you mean Balance, isn't my Flame Bull BD145RF balance.....?? Hmmphh hmppph <3 d4rk wolf...."
No, I mean weight distribution, surface area, and centre of gravity mostly.
Why is Meteo L-Drago 100WD ACTUALLY a good spin sharer?
Well Meteo-Ldrago 100 height allows minimum scraping (near none), an extremely low centre of gravity (remember this, low centre of gravity is essential).
100WD? Well apart from traditional metagame stamina being dominated by WD, why choose it again?
Slightly technical answer:
Spoiler (Click to View)
ON TOPIC: With that aside,
BD145LRF does the job with positives and negatives. BD145 being dense as it is, lowers the centre of gravity effectively.
LRF in "centre mode" has a large surface area, being flat, it doesn't fall so easily.
The slightly pointed centre makes LRF as if it were Rubber Defence.
The rubber is the one negative, it majorly slows down how long that last percentage can last for compared to a WD.
Good Night, might be on phone, expect short replies.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - lord Wolfblade - May. 19, 2011
ControL_: all of this my eye has seen and my ear has heard FYI. i also consider balance as stability, not a mix of attack, balance and defence i will have you know
i may not know much about physics, but i do know lots about beyblade
i guess i should state why i do not think BD145 is not good for attack:
where are the contact points, BD145 is almost completely round with no significant points for smash
if someone (who is not ControL_ ) would explain how BD145 works well for attack i would be thankful
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - ControL_ - May. 19, 2011
the balance quote was meant to be taken from someone anonymous. That information is for everyones sake. The source of collision there are not protusions, as i mentioned with many left spins is pushing. It shoves low beys out of the stadium.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - lord Wolfblade - May. 19, 2011
(May. 19, 2011 10:19 PM)ControL_ Wrote: The source of collision there are not protusions, as i mentioned with many left spins is pushing. It shoves low beys out of the stadium.
yes, but having contact points help (example: when my lightning ldrago sometimes knocks the opponent over the wall of my lightning force that is no push/shove)
what i more meant is that BD145 is made from plastic, because of that when it hits the recoil (or high particle collisions as you might say) is lessened, and the fact that it has no contact points lessens this even more
i am sorry for offtopicness
i am starting to think now that it is just the pure speed and weight of the lightning tank that lets BD145 force out the opponent, yet i am still a bit skeptical about BD's power
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - ControL_ - May. 19, 2011
many people have been skeptical, read every sort to try and identify a similarity. Speed and power is key hence bluezee enjoying a mint lrf. Of course its the speed, how else will it push, it offer mass to shove and it is done quite efficiently.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - th!nk - May. 19, 2011
lord Wolfblade, there are videos and testing to PROVE that this combo is effective. It's popular, and on the top-tier list for a reason.
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - lord Wolfblade - May. 19, 2011
(May. 19, 2011 10:37 PM)th!nk Wrote: lord Wolfblade, there are videos and testing to PROVE that this combo is effective. It's popular, and on the top-tier list for a reason.
i am not skeptical that it is a amazing combo that is really effective, i just think BD145 shouldn't do good for attack. if you see my below edit you will see why i think that it is KOing so much
(May. 19, 2011 10:28 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: i am starting to think now that it is just the pure speed and weight of the lightning tank that lets BD145 force out the opponent, yet i am still a bit skeptical about BD's power
i think it is the speed, not that BD145 is good for attack. that is what i mean
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - Bluezee - May. 19, 2011
(May. 19, 2011 10:41 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote:(May. 19, 2011 10:37 PM)th!nk Wrote: lord Wolfblade, there are videos and testing to PROVE that this combo is effective. It's popular, and on the top-tier list for a reason.
i am not skeptical that it is a amazing combo that is really effective, i just think BD145 shouldn't do good for attack. if you see my below edit you will see why i think that it is KOing so much
(May. 19, 2011 10:28 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: i am starting to think now that it is just the pure speed and weight of the lightning tank that lets BD145 force out the opponent, yet i am still a bit skeptical about BD's power
i think it is the speed, not that BD145 is good for attack. that is what i mean
Hold on, do you even have BD145 OR the parts needed to make this combo?
RE: The Fall of the Metagame: Lightning Tank - ControL_ - May. 19, 2011
for heavens sale the bd145 is essential for this combo. Its the armour on a tank. Hence the bulk can take down 230 like on other track.