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MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - Printable Version

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+---- Thread: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF (/Thread-MSF-L-Girago-Girago-BD145RF)

Pages: 1 2

MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - [)ragon - Jul. 24, 2013

Hey guys! Smile

This combo is, simply put, what I see as a breakthrough. I noticed that no anti-attack combos had been tested out for like a year now, and I seriously thought a synchrom anti-attacker needed to be tested out... and the results absolutely stunned me. I would consider this a breakthrough in dealing with the so overpowered attack types used in the current metagame.


The concept:
Spoiler (Click to View)

Parts choice:
Spoiler (Click to View)

The launch:
Spoiler (Click to View)

Testing videos:
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Tests:
Spoiler (Click to View)

Counters:
Spoiler (Click to View)

Hope you guys like this one! Feedback would be much appreciated. Smile

RE: MSF-M Girago Girago BD145RF - 6 God - Jul. 24, 2013

This is totally amazing! It destroyed attack, I was thinking of building an anti-attack combo this morning, but got caught up with other stuff. I found it really hard to believe it beat spin-steal, but it did, this is awesome. Do you have any test requests?

RE: MSF-M Girago Girago BD145RF - [)ragon - Jul. 24, 2013

(Jul. 24, 2013  10:44 PM)Kyler_the best Wrote: This is totally amazing! It destroyed attack, I was thinking of building an anti-attack combo this morning, but got caught up with other stuff. I found it really hard to believe it beat spin-steal, but it did, this is awesome. Do you have any test requests?

Actually, yes! Smile Could you confirm my tests against Duo 230D? That would be great. I'm having a hard time believing it actually happened myself! Tongue_out

RE: MSF-M Girago Girago BD145RF - BloodLacerta - Jul. 24, 2013

This looks amazing! Maybe a dragooon killer? As usual I'd love to see results against Killerken Dragooon DF105LRF.

RE: MSF-M Girago Girago BD145RF - [)ragon - Jul. 24, 2013

(Jul. 24, 2013  10:53 PM)BloodLacerta Wrote: This looks amazing! Maybe a dragooon killer? As usual I'd love to see results against Killerken Dragooon DF105LRF.

No, not a Dragooon Killer. :\ Just an attack type killer. Smile

RE: MSF-M Girago Girago BD145RF - *Ginga* - Jul. 24, 2013

Holy carp. Finally, a true counter to Wyvang Wyvang. These are amazing results.

Could you test against Balro Balro TR145MF?

RE: MSF-M Girago Girago BD145RF - Angry Face - Jul. 24, 2013

Nice tests, man. I've been playing with some Synchrome Anti-Attack combos myself recently, but I haven't tried Girago Girago yet, as I don't have even one, ha ha.

About your Defense tests, though: Revizer + Revizer + a rubber Bottom = pitiful Stamina, so Girago's results against the Defense combos don't really surprise me. Since I cannot test this myself, if you could please test this against a Defense combo with better Stamina, such as MF-H Duo Aquario or MSF/-H Killerken Killerken BD145CS, it'd be much appreciated!


(Jul. 24, 2013  11:09 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: Could you test against Balro Balro TR145MF?

MF's gon' die, son. xD

RE: MSF-M Girago Girago BD145RF - 6 God - Jul. 24, 2013

There were a good bit of wall saves, duo just couldn't hop the tornado ridge very easily, and I'm not sure how it got the OS's either, but here are the results. Maybe it was saramanda? I guess it didn't do too bad.

Mf-L Duo Gasher 230 d vs. mf-m saramanda girago bd145 rf

DG Wins: 12(All OS)
SG Wins: 8(All KO)

Conditions:
Spoiler (Click to View)


RE: MSF-M Girago Girago BD145RF - Kai Hiwatari - Jul. 24, 2013

I agree with Insomniac, I am curious to see if it is able to stand up against a Defense custom with CS.
Really good results against Wyvang x2 though, very surprising.

RE: MSF-M Girago Girago BD145RF - [)ragon - Jul. 25, 2013

I was already doing tests against Duo BD145CS. I just hadn't posted them yet. Smile

I'll try to get the tests with Balro and Done and then I'll post the results.

EDIT: I added tests against MF-H Duo Aquario BD145CS/RB and Balro Balro TR145MF to the OP. Smile

I think you'll like what you see.

RE: MSF-M Girago Girago BD145RF - Yuko Ray14 - Jul. 25, 2013

This is MF-L not MF-M based from the video haha

RE: MSF-M Girago Girago BD145RF - [)ragon - Jul. 25, 2013

(Jul. 25, 2013  12:41 AM)Yuko Ray14 Wrote: This is MF-L not MF-M based from the video haha

Oh my goodness, you're right! Tongue_out I typed it all in as MSF-M! I'm so, so sorry, My brain must have been turned off! I'll edit the OP now.

Yes, this combo does use MSF-L Tongue_out

EDIT:

1) I changed all the references to MSF-M to MSF-L
2) I accidentally put down Reviser Reviser BD145CS down as BD145RF in the testing :\ I fixed it.
3) The video also says MSF-M, but I can't change that. Unhappy

I got my MSF's totally mixed up today... That was pretty embarrassing, but it's all fixed now! Tongue_out

RE: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - ShinobuXD - Jul. 25, 2013

Hate to be a party pooper.... but I'd like to point out a few things.

First of all, I wouldn't say this is an original combo. In the Girago testing thread, Thunder Dome had me test the exact same combo, only with Gryph on the bottom. KainHighwind has also mentioned it.

Second of all, do you mind using a different RF? Because tbh, if it can OS Duo 230 D, you're RF is super worn, possibly even illegal. Heck, Girago on MF goes about even against stamina for me.

Third of all, I have no clue how you weren't able to OS/KO this with Wyvang Dragooon SA165 R2F at all. Theoretically speaking, SA165 should have more "LAD" than BD145 in either mode. BD145 has giant spikes on it. Then, with bottoms, R2F has a wider surface area than RF. It's like GF vs XF.

Just my two cents.

RE: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - [)ragon - Jul. 25, 2013

1) No, my RF is not that worn. It's nowhere near illegal. It just hit Duo so hard that it ended in Girago OSing. Plus, I said my D is a little rounded. I needed confirmation on that test, so if you could it would actually be awesome if you tried itout. Smile

2) You tested MSF-H Gryph Girago BD145RF, not MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF. I didn't say it was original, I was just the first one to tests it. I discussed this with Kain a couple months back.

3) BD145 stayed standing up longer against Wyvang Dragooon SA165R2F. It wasn't LAD, just the ability to stay standing up. Try it yourself, it will win nearly 100% of the time.

4) Measure your R2F. It's no wider than RF. "Theoretically" doesn't help. I posted tests in which Girago won. If you have results that show otherwise, then go ahead and post them, but a theory isn't much against actual test results.

RE: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - SwitchBlayder - Jul. 25, 2013

Try the girago combo only instead of RF use RSF as to add increase in stamina. fire at sliding shoot as usual. Just a theory

RE: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - 6 God - Jul. 25, 2013

RSF is for defense, it doesn't have the necessary movement to KO, the reason anti-attack customs work.

RE: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - SwitchBlayder - Jul. 25, 2013

really? My RSF moves just about the same speed as RF when sliding shot. Maybe its because mine is new, sorry if this is deviating from topic.

RE: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - Kai Hiwatari - Jul. 25, 2013

Lol why does everyone think that "LAD" is the key to victory?

Anyways, this definitely did a lot better than what I thought it would against CS. I am pretty pumped to try this out when ever I am able too. Hopefully to create some more believability, others can test this.

RE: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - Meow! - Jul. 25, 2013

(Jul. 25, 2013  3:52 AM)ShinobuXD Wrote: Then, with bottoms, R2F has a wider surface area than RF. It's like GF vs XF.

R2F and RF have the same diameter.

(Jul. 25, 2013  4:14 AM)theblackdragon Wrote: 1) No, my RF is not that worn. It's nowhere near illegal. It just hit Duo so hard that it ended in Girago OSing. Plus, I said my D is a little rounded. I needed confirmation on that test, so if you could it would actually be awesome if you tried itout. Smile

In the video , I couldn't see the hole. There was a black speckle but it was terribly off axis so it might have been dust. Might have just been video quality though.

(Jul. 25, 2013  5:33 AM)Kai Hiwatari Wrote: Lol why does everyone think that "LAD" is the key to victory?

It is a huge part in opposite-spin matchups.

I have all the parts so I'll try to get some tests up. Idk when though. It does seem awkward to me how much stamina is in Girago BD145RF and I can't picture it "grinding" Duo or something. If anything, Girago should be KOing Duo 230 since all the smash on Girago is towards the upper part of the metal wheel.

RE: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - 6 God - Jul. 25, 2013

(Jul. 25, 2013  7:13 AM)Meow! Wrote: I have all the parts so I'll try to get some tests up. Idk when though. It does seem awkward to me how much stamina is in Girago BD145RF and I can't picture it "grinding" Duo or something. If anything, Girago should be KOing Duo 230 since all the smash on Girago is towards the upper part of the metal wheel.

When I tested it, it didn't get under duo, it hit the core part, and sent it to the tornado ridge, but it didnt have enough power, to send it over the tornado ridge, and i think the reason it OS'd duo was because of the worness of the rf. But it did ko some.

RE: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - [)ragon - Jul. 25, 2013

(Jul. 25, 2013  7:13 AM)Meow! Wrote: In the video , I couldn't see the hole. There was a black speckle but it was terribly off axis so it might have been dust. Might have just been video quality though.

It does seem awkward to me how much stamina is in Girago BD145RF and I can't picture it "grinding" Duo or something. If anything, Girago should be KOing Duo 230 since all the smash on Girago is towards the upper part of the metal wheel.

The hole was there, and it's in the middle. :\ sometimes it just gets filled with dirt or something. IDK why but when I use the black BB-10 all my rubber tips get dirty. Go figure. Anywho, here's picutres of my RF. Smile

Spoiler (Click to View)
That's a pretty flat RF. I wouldn't call that near illegal. Smile Plus, you can see its movement pattern in the video. It's pretty darn aggressive.

And it's wins against the Duo stamina types weren't gridning... it was more like slamming it straight up into the air and completely battering it to death, with Duo getting a million wall saves. In other words, they should've been KOs, but Duo got way too many wall save, so it just stopped spinning from getting launched into the air so many times. However, my launch was unusually amazing yesterday. :\ I'll try to get up another video today. Smile

Here's a re-do of the tests:

MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF vs. Duo Cancer 230D
Duo launched first on all launches.
Girago: wins, 15/20 (12 KO, 3 OS)
Cancer: wins, 5/20 (All OS)
MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF win rate: 75%

The difference between this and the first match, was there were WAY less wall saves. There were only 3 matches where Girago OSed, and it was just from slamming into it ridiculously hard.
There was one match where Girago actually hit it so hard that it lifted off the ground and the Duo wheel scraped across the top of the wall, fell back in, and then got hit in mid air and leaned a full 90 degrees to the point where the metal wheel actually scraped.

I would try it yourself. Smile If you just launch very aggrresively, Girago will pull it off a few times.

RE: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - Kai Hiwatari - Jul. 25, 2013

(Jul. 25, 2013  7:13 AM)Meow! Wrote:
(Jul. 25, 2013  5:33 AM)Kai Hiwatari Wrote: Lol why does everyone think that "LAD" is the key to victory?

It is a huge part in opposite-spin matchups.

While it does have an impact in opposite spin match ups, it does not guarantee a victory like a lot of people have grown to believe.

kyler_the best Wrote:When I tested it, it didn't get under duo, it hit the core part, and sent it to the tornado ridge, but it didnt have enough power, to send it over the tornado ridge, and i think the reason it OS'd duo was because of the worness of the rf. But it did ko some.

Just thought I would point out that you tested with Saramanda Girago, so your results could different.

The updated tests really should reinforce the potential of this custom. I hope someone will try this with a fairly-prime RF so we can see if there is a major difference in the performance.

RE: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - rage sagittario - Jul. 25, 2013

Wow I just watcned the test video on YouTube and I love this combo and I gotta make it

RE: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - [)ragon - Jul. 25, 2013

I put the second video in the OP. Smile

I was really, really rushed, so I only did a few rounds against each combo, but it did pretty well in the few rounds I was able to get done on film. I hope it helps the discussion! Smile

I re-did some stuff against Wyvang Dragooon:
Spoiler (Click to View)

Spoiler (Click to View)


RE: MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF - ShinobuXD - Jul. 28, 2013

I just watched both vids for this combo.

Why are you using the sliding shoot with Wyvang Dragooon SA165 R2F? WD SA165 R2F is never, ever, ever supposed to be sliding shot, unless your opponent is in left. A wide sweeping launch is to be used. The wider launch gives you more speed. and easier KO ability, as well as tons more destabilization.

Second of all, I'd recommend a similar launch with Wyvang Wyvang GB145 R2F. With that launch, you can "chase" your opponent until you hit them at full speed. With a sliding shoot, your basically just betting on you hitting your opponent at the same spot.